Is the Military Industrial Complex the MAIN reason that so many people...

[JanMichael]

...have the money for an upscale SUV (or house, or other car, or really, really, expensive shoes...)?

We will spend more than the next FIFTEEN COUNTRIES COMBINED (or more, I don't care, to do the math http://www.cdi.org/issues/wme/spendersFY03.html ) in military expendatures in 2004.

We're in an Arms Race with ourselves.

Is it worth it?

This is a fundamental question.

[JVS]

1. I don't think so

Wealth through arms kind of contradicts the guns vs butter scenario.

[jagguy]

2. without it commerce is just not the same

corporations like stability and bickering countries hurt.

It IS good for business worldwide. Its an indirect correlation but significant.

[Generic Other]

3. What a gross thought

yeah, we are all a part of it, aren't we?

Involuntary servitude at that. Thanks for the cheery thought.

[JanMichael]

9. It is the gross reality of our Existance.

Our guns are the same as butter....

[Generic Other]

13. So how do we melt our guns into butter?

I feel utter sense of powerlessness to stop the madness of our military-industrial machine. Always have. I try not to contribute.
A refuse-nik. A troublemaker.

I make NO impact--zero. Any suggestions? How do we change what seems our predetermined fate to live under slavery in country of happy drones?

I really wish I knew.

[fabius]

4. Main reason on the West Coast...

...is the computer industry I think. Especially in WA/OR. I've got the money for a big SUV but certainly won't buy one.

Recall, all this prosperity came about in the Clinton years when military spending was being cut.

Huge military spending didn't lead the Soviet Union to prosperity and it won't work for the US either. The right combination of civilian public sector and private sector spending does it.

Now, one of Clinton's bad judgements coming home to roost is the global "free trade" movement that is moving jobs out of the US every day. If not reversed our economy is going down the toilet no matter what.

US defense spending is bloated and the reason is to maintain our overseas empire. Now they are going to have to expand the Army. Any volunteers?

[JanMichael]

7. Military spending under Clinton was not significantly different from ...

...other recent Presidents.

http://www.clw.org/milspend/spdhst98.html

What the fuck happened to the "Peace Dividend"!?

[Misinformed01]

5. Hell no, it's not worth it

[soothsayer]

6. SOME get very rich--don't forget, pentagon has lost TRILLIONS

not millions, but trillions of dollars that it can't account for.

Uh huh. Sure.

That's an awful lot of our money they need to find....! How come we're not mad as hell about that?

[jfkennedy]

8. No it's not worth it

The well phrased Enron stock reports where all based on lies. The California energy crisis a fraud. The only thing that is real to them is the war that the Republican military industrial complex can manufacture.

In reality no one likes War no matter how much Murdoch and the Republicans sell it.

However, the problem is the system is so corrupt that no one can fix it except for perhaps for a liberal like General Clark.

Dean reminds me of a used car salesmen. If he has a sort of change and wants to defect and join the liberals, I'm all for him but all his comments after he gets his 15 minutes of fame by winning in the California Polls that, he is really conservative at heart, sort of shows me he has not defected from the Republican democratic camp to be a true blue liberal.

[Wonk]

10. Did you catch Bill Moyers NOW this week, JM?

The Military Industrial Congressional Complex

[JanMichael]

11. Missed it but I'm certain that it was on target.

It usually is. Bill is one of the last of the real investigative reporters that still has a voice on major media.

Thanks.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alex88]

14. No, to the contrary.

The demands for nonviolent goods and services are infinite and if the enormous amount of money spent on the Military Industrial Complex was available to meet those demands, the standard of living would be unimaginably better.

[maggrwaggr]

16. yes, the "peace dividend" which drove the 90's

now long long gone.

[maggrwaggr]

15. it's an odd form of socialism, no?

I read that military spending is up 45% this year, the biggest increase since 1951.

This was in a stock investment newsletter, not exactly left-wing news.

The military is socialism. I grew up in that world.

Odd that right-wingers would be for this socialism.

[Rex]

17. Debts (credit cards) are out of control in this country.

I think rampant abuse of credit is why people have overpriced SUVs. The truly elite (CEOs etc) have other people drive them around.