Are you interested in world oil crisis? I think not!

[littlejoe]

Again, I have proven that the environment is of little interest to many democrats. It's like the weather. Many pay lip service to it, when called on it, but few are willing to do anything.

Oh well. I guess it's more fun to speculate who the veep is going to be, or who has got their feelings hurt.

Environmental posts, I have concluded are just a waste of time.

[democratreformed]

1. First of all, did you post it here?

I saw your thread over in GD Primary. Frankly, I didn't respond b/c I know absolutely nothing about oil production from hemp. I can say, though, that, when you (was it you?) posted that in the Peak Oil thread (was it Saturday?), I did get some hope from it. I was surely hoping you knew what you were talking about.

[Eureka]

2. OK, I'll bite.........

I've planted over 1000 trees in the past year, I've regenerated the banks of one of the rivers on my land, one to go. I spend a lot of time planning power systems and renewable energy sources to keep my patch sustainable. I avoid using motors to get me where I'm going whenever possible.

So, what've you been up to?

[littlejoe]

10. I knew this post would get lots of responses. Negative posts

always do around here. The proof to my post is in the responses to the positive stories I post concerning the environment. Rest assured, I do plenty to help keep my world safe and clean. I'm glad you are doing your part.

[Eureka]

14. I'm just a confused Aussie

So please, help me out.

How have you proved that the environment is of little interest to many democrats? (original post) I'm not calling you out, I just don't understand what proof you are offering in this regard.

Can you give me links to these "positive stories ... concerning the environment"? It's been a while since I've seen such a story.

What are your environmental credentials, just so we know what you consider a suitable amount of effort to put in. My cards are already on the table, and I'm willing to elaborate if you'd like.

What do you think people should be doing? It seems over here dressing in a koala suit and begging for money is valid environmental work, not my cup of tea, but it seems to pass for some. What are your ideas?

[rockymountaindem]

3. The peak oil thread got like 200 posts.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Why do you think I stopped doing them?

Your only "error", though, is in thinking that the Democrats (or anyone else) are too self-absorbed to pay attention to energy and environmental crises.

The reality is much more sinister. People are too frightened. They've seen the start of the next major extinction event and it scares them into numbness. Save the Whales? Bananas could be extinct by the end of the decade. Most people have never seen a whale, but nearly everyone has eaten a banana.

When the first of the massive energy price hikes hit, people won't "take back the streets" or anything like it. They will be so dazed that they will bundle up and sulk. And the Powers That Be are counting on it.

Which is exactly why it's vital to get people interested in their world again.

--bkl

[many a good man]

8. But how?

..."it's vital to get people interested in their world again.


How do we do this short of a major crisis? It seems the only thing people pay attention to is their pocketbook. I'm behing the Apollo Alliance stuff but I don't see people being scared enough to do anything or demand anything. They're just hoping its all crying wolf.

[Deja Q]

11. How about a TV show that engages people...

Norman Lear did a heck of a job in the 1970s until the braindead squad hijacked the industry (or, worse, did the people become indolent?)

We need a Norman Lear for today's generation and to get people aware and talking.

TV, sadly, is our best hope...

[littlejoe]

13. Thanks. You seem as much or more frustrated than I do.

I won't stop doing my part, but I just wish I knew how to reach people. Nothing, and I mean nothing will be solved, until the masses start understanding the dire predicament we are in and begin to apply pressure to our leadership.

[Dogmudgeon]

16. Doing just this is a good start

And actually, I haven't stopped at all -- I just go at it differently. And I suspect you do, too.

Since I believe that people are already aware, the main thing is to shake them out of their fear. Reading Jay Hanson's site (www.DieOff.com) is enough to make anyone give up hope.

This election cycle has been the best thing to hit this country since the Summer of Love. There is a huge groundswell against Bush; the entire left side of the political spectrum is becoming energized. Once people feel that they can "make a difference", they will be able to confront terrifying issues like the end of the oil economy, the probable beginning of a new ice age, and coping with a massive global extinction event.

Our leadership -- even on the left -- is likely to be the last to get the message. Those that do, like Al Gore, will be marginalized. But most of what we do in our lives does not involve our elected officials. It's time to go beyond telling people to turn off lights they're not using and begging for higher gas taxes. Every action that makes people more aware of their power and abilities is a successful act of defiance against tyranny, despair, and death. And it's going to take that kind of defiance to get us through the next three or four generations.

--bkl

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

can't beat it for putting things in perspective..

[Renew Deal]

6. Peak oil appears to be the most critical issue of our time.

I have to learn more about it, but there is probably nothing more important. We are doomed if Bush and friends are reselected.

[tkmorris]

7. Environmental posts a waste of time?

Whereas posts which chastise people for not posting to your threads are somehow useful? Bleh.

[Deja Q]

9. Um

I am a liberal. Heck, I'm even a Democrat (albeit old school despite being 31)!

Here is what I do:

Drive to and from work.

Do grocery shopping after work on route to home.

No special trips.

Make trips to Minneapolis (30 miles away, one way) to my favorite book store only when I have another need to go there from work (Doctor appt, rare political rally, etc - been to Mpls only ONE time this year so far.) This keeps mileage accrual to a minimum.

If I go out to a bar or social activity (since mid-2003, ZERO TIMES), I do it after work.

Yes, it can be a pain - especially if I want to go out. But I sit at home and survive.

I separate newspapers and paper bags too. I don't drink pepsi or anything to use those plastic bottles or aluminum cans regularly; rarely at best and I do put them in the RECYCLE bin, not trash.

I do my part.

[Renew Deal]

12. BTW, have you looked in the environment forum?

They are splitting atoms over there.

[maggrwaggr]

15. you're just used to your Dean-bashing posts getting a lot of response

I don't know what you're complaining about

[littlejoe]

19. I've long since stopped. No sense beating a dead horse.

[whistle]

17. Yes I am...

...I do my part, I turn out lights when I move from room to room, I drive half as much as I used to, by carefully planning my driving schedule to avoid unnecessary trips, I car pool when possible, I keep the heat on low in the winter (68F), AC on high (80F) in the summer, I recycle, I have stayed with a mid-sized automobile for 30 years, I dispose of environmental toxins by safe means and I read labels to avoid buying products that pollute and poison the environment, but still the environment gets more polluted every year. Please keep posting the serious polluters. Names, we need names. I may be part of the problem, but I am not the whole problem. So, yes let everyone know who the environmental criminals are in government, business and even our institutions. I don't even think Ralph Nader is doing that anymore.

:kick:

[RainDog]

18. so where's the link to the thread?

I just logged on and looked for it, but couldn't find it.

why don't you repost in the enviro forum? things move so quickly in GD, good posts get lost all the time...and not just yours.

[littlejoe]

20. I posted in GD 2004 and The Environment forum.

[mike1963]

21. Lots of folks are "interested", but the unfortunate bottom line is that

practically nobody really gives a shit about what happens a hundred years from today. And realistically, how could you blame them? Sure, a lot of lip service is paid about "the children" but the fact is, most people don't give a rat's ass what happens to them. Instant gratification is good, concern for the future is bad.

In whatever 'grand scheme of things' might exist, they might even be right. Who the hell knows?

[maggrwaggr]

22. oh yeah, you proved it.

the posts on peak oil are getting a huge response. Maybe you're just pissed off it wasn't you who posted them.

You've proved nothing. Eat some cheese with that whine.

[Moderator]

23. Locking--GD rules

Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.