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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 09:58 AM
Original message
Hanoi Jane making the rounds
I wasn't there or have read much about this. I had a Freeper Friend e-mail this to me.
Can't get the picture to post. Here is the text.
--
KEEP THIS MOVING; ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison - the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me.

This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget.

-----
I should probably google the Fonda thing, but figured that some good Du'er would know--- Is there no defense for Jane? Has she talked about this? :shrug:
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wolfgirl Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hoax
Go to www.snopes.com and check it out. Story has just enough "facts" to make it appear credible. I'm not surprised that this bs is being recirculated.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. You know it's a hoax as soon as this sentance appears.
Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can.
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ldoolin Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hoax email
That email is one of several hoax emails that the freepers have been circulating about Jane Fonda.
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eyesroll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. 100 years of great women aired in 1999
Edited on Sat Mar-13-04 10:07 AM by eyesroll
Snopes does list most of this as true.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

(I should add that this Snopes link isn't addressing this exact e-mail, so I guess "most of this as true" isn't quite accurate.)
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. No, Jane is bad.
Bad, bad Jane. She must be punished forever and ever and ever.

By the way, I don't believe that story. I just figure anyone my parents hated that much must have done something right.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. what jane fonda did was wrong
and she will live with it forever. and she has owned and apologized a number of times. she cant take back what she did. she can only take it as a lesson and become a more compassionate person and let it be one of her hugest of lessons in life.

everyone was a bit missed up in that time, very chaotic, misteps everywhere.
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Robin Hood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. THe Vietnam war was wrong.
Yet all we focus on is Jane at the gun turret.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Jane Fonda was speaking out against an immoral war, what was wrong about
that?

Yes she went to Vietnam. She went looking for the truth because our government was hiding it, and thus they made her a villain. She was constantly watched by the FBI and subsequently arrested.

Jane Fonda is a hero in that respect for trying to salvage American lives instead of sending them over to die for a greed driven war.

You certainly wont hear any apologies from the media that crucified her for digging too deep. She in many ways paved the way for us to be able to protest against wars that serve no good and certainly no justice.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. i agree with you two
also the one moment in the time she turned over those notes were wrong. and she was young and idealistic, and she was courages for yelling against and many other things. yes. i dont feel she should embrace what she did in shame, but to grow from it. she has a lot to be proud of herself for and i personally have always enjoyed her and thought a lot of her.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. To remember the reality of what was going on then,
read this article in The Nation by Fonda's former husband Tom Hayden.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040322&s=hayden

one excerpt:

Erased from public memory is the fact that Fonda's purpose was to use her celebrity to put a spotlight on the possible bombing of Vietnam's system of dikes. Her charges were dismissed at the time by George H.W. Bush, then America's ambassador to the United Nations, who complained of a "carefully planned campaign by the North Vietnamese and their supporters to give worldwide circulation to this falsehood." But Fonda was right and Bush was lying, as revealed by the April-May 1972 White House transcripts of Richard Nixon talking to Henry Kissinger about "this shit-ass little country":

NIXON: We've got to be thinking in terms of an all-out bombing attack.... I'm thinking of the dikes.

KISSINGER: I agree with you.

NIXON: ...Will that drown people?

KISSINGER: About two hundred thousand people.

It was in order to try to avert this catastrophe that Fonda, whose popular "FTA" road show (either "Fun, Travel, Adventure" or "Fuck the Army") was blocked from access to military bases, gave interviews on Hanoi radio describing the human consequences of all-out bombing by B-52 pilots five miles above her. After her visit, the US bombing of the dike areas slowed down, "allowing the Vietnamese at last to repair damage and avert massive flooding," according to Mary Hershberger.

more>
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. This must have pissed off the lesbians...
..."NIXON: We've got to be thinking in terms of an all-out bombing attack.... I'm thinking of the dikes."

:P
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. Jane Fonda Spent More Time in Viet Nam Than Bush did.
Tell your freeper buddy that one.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. Also of course
This is a slam on John Kerry. That's why it's circulating again now. To remind of how evil she was and how bad, by inference, he was for protesting the war.

Of course she didn't go to Hanoi until 1972, two years after he and she attended events together. So that they are really faulting Kerry for is not having the ability to see the future.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hanoi Jane, meet Baghdad Don


http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2177

"Just 12 days after the meeting, on January 1, 1984, The Washington Post reported that the United States 'in a shift in policy, has informed friendly Persian Gulf nations that the defeat of Iraq in the 3-year-old war with Iran would be ‘contrary to U.S. interests’ and has made several moves to prevent that result.'

...In November (1984), full diplomatic relations between Iraq and the US were fully restored. Two years later, in an article about Rumsfeld’s aspirations to run for the 1988 Republican Presidential nomination, the Chicago Tribune Magazine listed among Rumsfeld’s achievements helping to 'reopen U.S. relations with Iraq.' The Tribune failed to mention that this help came at a time when, according to the US State Department, Iraq was actively using chemical weapons."

:headbang:
rocknation
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Nice one, hee, hee
Rumsfeld shook hands with a "mass murderer". :bounce:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. That should be sent to the entire email list that received the
first email.

If possible, also add an article about Cheney's Halliburton using a foreign subsidiary to skirt US sanctions and do business with Iraq - in the area of rebuilding their oil fields. Cheney, who led the charge in the first Gulf War as Secretary of Defense, can hardly claim that he saw Saddam as a threat worth war, then saw him as benign so lets do business, then saw him as a threat worth war again.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Oh, this is getting good, hee, hee
I wanna here more from others with similar ideas. :bounce:
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for all the great info.
I guess that is Jane's cross to bear. Did seem a little thoughtless looking back.
Yeah, Rocknation, let's talk about Rummy now! :headbang:
He really looked presidential giving the Gas to Saddam!
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Do you ever notice the writer is always a field-grade officer?
Never a private or Spec-4. I guess making the writer an officer is supposed to add credibility. What a bunch of bullshit. I get so damned sick of this crap getting e-mailed to everyone and people believing every word. We should expect more of this, especially since Fonda and John Kerry have been linked by the wingers.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. How many times does Ms. Fonda have to aplogize?
and why are so many Christians unable to forgive her?
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good question. I was shocked at what she did at the time,
very shocked. But she apologized, said it was wrong. I forgave her. She was big enough to apologize and I respect her for that. I even like her now.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. exactly
I think her heart was in the right place but her method of demonstration terribly misguided. And she herself has said the same and had repeatedly apologized. What else can she do?
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hey kids
Edited on Sat Mar-13-04 01:53 PM by Ernesto
I served on the ground in I corps. with the 2nd Bat, 3rd. Marines in '67 & '68..... As far as I can tell, Jane was a patriot then & now is a legendary boogy (wo)man for right wing nuts everywhere. ..... PS. I was a field grade corporal at the time.
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