Read this interview with a soldier back from Iraq

[scottxyz]

This interview offers a rare, unfiltered report from a first-hand participant in the invasion and ongoing occupation of Iraq.

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=668


Do you think the American public is well-informed about what is happening in Iraq?

No, I really don’t. I see young people on my medical table all the time, people who have lost their legs or arms or had other terrible injuries. No one back home sees any of that. I’ve been home for a month and I haven’t seen a casualty yet on television. I’m still waiting. Where are the casualties? It’s as if it doesn’t exist, as if it doesn’t happen.

= = =

What’s it like being a medical corpsman?

> I’m thinking about a 19-year-old who was on my table. This guy could have been your next door neighbor. Smart kid, excited kid. But his life as he knew it was basically over. His legs were gone. It’s hard for these soldiers to believe. I’ve seen lots of people with severe, permanent injuries. They’re going to need a lot of help when they get back home, because their lives are going to change forever. And to have the guy {President Bush} cutting billions from the VA {Veterans Administration} budget, at a time when you’ve got all those guys coming back from overseas with major injuries, that’s disgusting! That hurts every person who ever served this country. I don’t understand how someone can stand up and say, “I’m pro-military,” when you want to cut $16 billion from the VA and close VA hospitals.

> We’re going to need those hospitals. The veterans are going to need medical help and psychological training. They’re not going to be able to walk out of that environment and just go back to their normal jobs. They’re going to need therapy, they’re going to need help. And where do you go to get that help? You go to the VA. If there’s no VA, where do you go? We don’t have insurance. The military doesn’t provide health insurance for you after you leave the military.

= = =

To what extent do you feel that U.S. soldiers in Iraq have the proper equipment for what they face there?

> We were supposed to have bulletproof vests, where we actually put the plates inside our flak jackets. We never got those. The money had been paid for those things, but we never got them. My brother had to send me a flak jacket. There’s all sorts of stuff that we had to buy on our own before we left.

= = =

What did you think about President Bush’s Thanksgiving visit to Iraq?

> I was there when President Bush came to the airport. The day before, you had to fill out a questionnaire and answer questions, that would determine whether they would allow you in the room with the President.

What was on the questionnaire?

> “Do you support the president?”

Really!

> Yes.

Members of the military were asked whether they support the president politically?

> Yes. And if the answer was not a gung-ho, A-1, 100 percent yes, then you were not allowed into the cafeteria. You were not allowed to eat the Thanksgiving meal that day. You had an MRE.

What’s an MRE?

> Meals ready to eat. We also call them “meals refused by Ethiopians.”

= = =

Do you think it matters that so many of the top people in the Bush Administration never served in combat?

> Yes. It’s quite a list. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice, and many more. I’m still trying to figure out how Cheney managed to get five draft deferments. They say there is not one person in Congress today that has a son or daughter in combat. Neither house of Congress.

= = =

Read more at:
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=668

[northofdenali]

1. Dear God, this is horrifying. Why won't America

just WAKE THE FUCK UP? I'm going to email this link to everyone in my address book, Repub and other (mostly other, but some relatives in Oregon are pretty right-wing).

This is so sad, so unforgivable. FUCK YOU GEORGE W. BUSH - YOU will go down in history as a murdering liar.

[Mari333]

2. I blame the media whores

who refuse to tell the truth to the US public.

[Jacobin]

5. Mari, I saw a great interview a couple of hours ago on

the CNN which is the foreign news section. It would have blown your mind.

First segment is discussion about Russian media worshipping Putin, saying only positive things, just like Pravda.

Second segment is the guy from Salon announcing his partnership with MoveOn and Guardian, and saying EXACTLY the same thing!!:bounce:

The woman anchor who was interviewing them, I think she was British, could barely contain herself from bursting out laughing at the comparison....it was truly beautiful.

[calimary]

10. That's why we have to DELUGE those same media whores with

demands for the truth.

If enough people in reader/viewer/listener land say they want to know what happens to the casualties and why can't we see them and know what's going on, things will change. They'll have to. Every letter/call/email that comes in represents a possible ratings point (and, therefore, REVENUE).

Check out the Take Back the Media site for addresses. Or, write/call/email CNN or MSNBC or ABC or CBS or SOMEBODY! Or, whenever you see or read an op/ed piece or a report that's noteworthy, please note the contact info or email address of the author/writer/pundit. AND USE IT!!!!!!

If they think we don't care, THEY won't, either.

[scottxyz]

4. Using Reservists is like using temps - they're cheaper, don't get benefits

In certain parts of the military, they’re ordering Reservists to stay on for much longer than they expected.

> The Reserves are different.

How?

> Because Reservists are not paid yearly. Reservists don’t make as much money as active duty people do. They don’t require housing; you don’t have to move the entire family to the base in order to ship them out. The whole idea is to get more people on as Reservists, so that they can use them to replace active duty. It’s great for them {the government}, they’re saving money.

Without meaning disrespect to anyone who is serving in the Reserves, it occurs to me that this is like a corporation getting rid of full-time, experienced workers, and bringing in temps. It’s great for the bottom line, and potentially very destructive in a whole host of other ways.

> Exactly.

[leftchick]

19. My cousin is Army Reserve....

He has been away from his wife, kids, mom and dad, his job as a sheriff for a year in Baghdad now. He is supposed to be home in April but may be extended for who knows how long. Stay safe Scott...

[calimary]

7. Note my sig line, guys... TOLL FREE to give 'em HELL on the Hill.

And give some of that hell to the media whores, too. THEY have been sleeping with the enemy for more than 3 years. They are accomplices in this travesty.

[Jacobin]

3. I'll be very happy when these guys can come home and tell their

stories, AFTER they have been discharged so they can speak their minds.

It was one of the turning points in the Vietnam debacle, when veterans came home and marched and spoke out against the insanity.

[Baclava]

6. What a load of bullshit...

I am a career active duty medic in the military...I was in Baghdad for 7 months after convoying through from Kuwait all the way in. Yes - we had one of our guys killed on the trip. It was tough on all of us...but we dealt with it. Yes - I saw soldiers with blast injuries necessitating the removal of their legs. Yes - some didn't like eating MRE's for a month till the chow halls got set up. So what? - that's what we get paid for. Did we have to drink 120 degree water for a few days - yes - did it suck - yes. So what? You tough it out. That's what war is. Deal with it. Some people whine all the time about everything. That's their thing. You do what you have to do.
Sone people can handle it better than others, that's all. Did we save some lives - you bet. Did I think it was worth it. Hell yes! This is what we spend all our lives training for. Civilians will just never understand.

[scottxyz]

8. Baclava says guys losing both their legs isn't something to "whine" about

Baclava says:

> Yes - I saw soldiers with blast injuries necessitating the removal of their legs...

> So what? - that's what we get paid for....

> Deal with it. Some people whine all the time about everything.


Must be cool to be such a tough guy!

[calimary]

9. Well, kiddo, THIS civilian will NEVER understand why LIES launched

all that suffering. If this were legit, if it were a worthy cause, if our MISleaders didn't have to play "Twister games" with themselves trying to come up with a palatable reason for going over there, if the Iraqis had been the ones hijacking those planes on September 11th, if Saddam had masterminded the attack, then yes, ti would be worth it. Those soldiers with those awful, life-changing wounds, who need the VA services bush is trying to gut, (THAT MEANS YOU, TOO, my friend, when YOU'RE a vet), lost their legs and had their lives forever marred - FOR LIES. AND GREED. THAT'S OKAY WITH YOU?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

As a civilian, I appreciate your service, but I do NOT appreciate your self-delusion.

[mike1963]

11. You saved some lives? And just how many lives did you snuff out?

I hope to gawd I am misreading what you wrote, because I'm feeling an awful lot of hatred for the position you seem to be taking.

THIS WAS NO GODDAMN FUCKING WAR, it was an INVASION of a sovereign nation.

I can't :puke: enough..........


:grr:

FU

[JohnOneillsMemory]

12. "Some people can handle it better than others, that's all." MASS MURDER?

Thanks for helping our wounded and risking your own life but
no fucking thanks for saying it's all fine except for the whiners.

Yes, I'm just a civilian but I'm a human being too.
You must have developed some pretty tough calluses on your soul to get through what you have.

Man, did you really mean what you wrote? Does "spending all your life training for" the shattered meat that unneccessary and illegal war creates give you the meaning in life you're seeking?

Maybe you can find it in other ways, like preventing it instead of putting a bandage on it.

I know, there's nothing as real as being up against death and dismemberment and surviving. Everything else is paperwork and talk by pussies.

I still think you have covered up a part of your humanity to survive. Come on back. We want you back here with us.

[Bozita]

13. Why DID we go to war, in your opinion?

Curious.

TIA

[PaDUer]

14. We're waiting for his reply..

and while he's at it, maybe he can also post a PIX of himself w/ his medals and whatever, so we can salute him..I thought this "war" was over, didn't you? And, how many military people with brain imjuries? How many were killed--the real numbers, including those that didn't die immediately?

[Bozita]

15. The military is reporting high re-enlistment numbers

Numbers that numbed my reasoning and logic.

Wondering how he sees it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. I see it as just more propaganda from the NeoCon Junta...

...if it was really true, they wouldn't be activating as many National Guard units as they have.

[ParanoidPat]

16. Wow! "load of bullshit"?

Baclava says, "Did I think it was worth it. Hell yes!

I seriously think you should look into getting some therapy. :(
PTSD is not something to be left untreated.

[leftchick]

20. Baclava says..."Civilians will just never understand"

Especially all of the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed and maimed for their "liberation". Pfft...

[ShaneGR]

21. Well, to be honest, civilians don't understand what military guys gothroug

Check out his reply below, if half of you super leftists would take the time to have an intelligent conversation with military people maybe you'd get that what the government chooses to do has NOTHING to do with them. They sign up for a job and they do it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. "Super leftisits"?? Interesting comment. I know for a fact that one of..

...those so-called "super leftists" has a stepson in Iraq...I bet she's had quite a few in-depth intelligent converstations with that young man. I know that his father cries every day about what his son is having to go through.

I personally know quite a few people with relatives and/or friends in the Middle East, and I've had quite a few intelligent conversations with them, too.

Knowing why one originally signs up for the military and then knowing that one is being sent to a combat zone created by the outright lies of the NeoCon Junta are two different concepts in my way of thinking.

"Super leftists"?? Who the heck are you to throw labels around on a DU board?

[scottxyz]

48. sgr2, stop giving away your hand

You're giving yourself away by using phrases like "you super lefties".

You really should camoflage yourself better.

[teknomanzer]

24. Nice tough guy talk...

I served, and not as some REMF supply or paper shuffler, but in combat arms as an armor crewman no less. Yes, soldiers are expected to endure hardships, but risking life and limb so that a few coporate toads can stuff their pockets with large amounts of cash is not on that list. Our duty is to defend the constitution and the country. We are not to be used as raiders and pirates pillaging the wealth of other countries, and we are not disposable heroes. We are human beings with lives and families that are every bit as important as those who control the chessboard. The fact that casualties are not being reported here reveals something underhanded about the whole misadventure in Iraq. If you can't see that you are truly blind.

[scottxyz]

47. And remember that casualties are being way under-reported

The official figure was 560 US casualties - but I hear it may really be 1188.

Check out this DU thread on the topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1208927

Guys who die from their wounds a few hours or days after seeing the medic are now being counted as "injured" and not as "killed".

Yet another way the Pentagon is keeping secret how much this war is costing us.

If "some things are worth fighting for" as baclava says - then it should also be worth knowing what we're sacrificing as part of that fight.

I'd like to ask Baclava: As a soldier, don't you feel insulted that no coffins are ever allowed to be showed in the media any more?

Doesn't it freak you out that this is the FIRST time in history we've had this kind of twisted rule?

Doesn't it make you think that Bush is some kind of weirdo if he's the first president we ever had who totally ignores the guys who die in the line of fire?

How would Baclava's family feel if he had died in this war and then Bush wouldn't even let the newspapers show a picture of his coffin.

Baclava say "civilians never understand."

Civilians might understand a lot better if we didn't have a media blackout on what the soldiers are actually going through in this war.

Civilians might understand a lot better if soldiers didn't have to sign a paper saying they support Bush before they get their Turkey dinner.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. And your view is precisely why we continue to send our troops...

...to foreign lands to kill or be killed based on outright lies.

Yes, when one joins the military there is an expected risk, but it is a risk predicated on the U. S. Government making decisions based on actual fact as opposed to outright lies. When was the last time that the U. S. military was used as it was intended to be used?

LBJ used the phantom action at the Tonkin Gulf to escalate the war in Vietnam. Poppy Bush used a major propaganda operation based on falsified information to launch Desert Storm. And now we're back in Iraq, perhaps for a very long time, based on falsified data in regards to WMDs.

Additionally, based on the track record for truth-telling by the NeoCon Junta and the examples stated above, one has to seriously wonder why we also attacked Afghanistan.

"Civilians will just never understand"?? What the heck does that mean? Quite a few of us have served in the military, and/or have relatives in the military, and/or have friends in the military, and/or know others that have relatives/friends in the military. What I understand very clearly is that they are being put in harm's way based on the outright lies of an unelected dictator striving for world domination by any means possible. Tell me what you think YOU understand.

[laylah]

33. May I first welcome

you safely home. As a civilian, no, I won't ever understand. What I would like to know is what was your opinion of "liberating" the Iraqi people once you found out (you HAVE found out, yes?) that the invasion of a sovereign nation was based on lies? Please don't tell me "at least we got Saddam"...having him removed from power IS a good thing; HOWEVER, lying to do so while killing almost 600 of OUR soldiers and thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, was repugnant, reprehensible, and disgusting, to say the least. Do you agree?

Jenn

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Baclava]

17. And there you have it....

The predictable, politically correct "feel good" responses I was anticipating. It's nice to be home and not have to worry about mortar rounds raining down on my safe and secure house. But safety at home comes with a price that not everyone is willing to pay. So be it. It's only when you're in a hostile environment that you see how superficial the veneer of civilization really is. You do what you have to do to survive...and you leave it in the field when you come back. You do your job and go home.
There's no time for politics on the battlefield, you're too busy taking care of your buddies. I didn't mean to sound like a hardass...but any compassion is saved for my guys first. The rest of the world is going to have to wait.

"It is not by speeches and majority resolutions that the great questions of our time are decided...It is by blood and iron."
-Von Bismarck

[ShaneGR]

18. Well, here's my thoughts

I can understand that. Being in the military requires a great deal of strength, courage, and especially teamwork. And you're right, most men don't give a flying F about what some suit in Washington thinks, once they're on the ground I mean.

I think you'll find that the great majority of people on this board have a lot of respect for those in uniform, but little or no respect for the Bush Administration or its decision to send guys like you into Iraq.

Anyways, glad you made it back. Take care.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Baclava]

26. Ummmmm....yeahhhh

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of mind that thinks nothing is worth fighting for is far worse."

-John Stuart Mill

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Tell me exactly why you were in Iraq...

...and then tell me if the loss or crippling of any American was worth it.

And don't start with the "civilian" crap...quite a few of us have served.

[Baclava]

30. Why?

What's not to understand? Because that's where my job was...and I went to take care of my kids. They needed me. I would do it again.

[bvar22]

34. Your kids were in Iraq?

If so, then you were truly protecting them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Does that mean you have absolutely no clue why your unit was sent...

...or that you just don't care one way or the other about the framework of lies that provided the reasons why you were sent? Why were you and your buddies sent to face the prospect of being maimed and/or killed?

And please don't tell me that you were "keeping America safe"...Iraq had no WMDs, and no link has ever been found between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Your unit, and all of the other units in the Middle East, was sent to secure the oil in that region. Was that worth seeing Americans die and/or getting maimed?

What's not to understand about that?

[Baclava]

37. Of course we had a mission...

Operationally, we provided front-line command and control for close air support, air refueling, humanitarian, combat search and rescue, and airlift missions, plus the "spooky" stuff. This isn’t like when it’s on the news and it’s somewhere else or someone else. You are there, and it’s all around you. At night when you hear the gunfire, see the explosions, the tracer fire, you know it's real. WE had a job to do and we did it. Wanna see some pics? OK - you talked me into it. A couple of Saddam's palaces and some of his people's houses.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

38. You can do the same photo contrast here in the US.

Does it matter that:

The US gov't did this:
Put Saddam in power.
Had him kill a coupla thousand 'commies.'
Encouraged him to invade Iran, armed both sides, 8,000,000 dead.
Told him he could invade Kuwait and keep a piece as a reward.
Killed thousands when he invaded Kuwait and took the whole thing.
Pissed off Usama by stationing troops in Saudi Arabia.
CIA organized, trained, and armed Al-Qi'da in the first place.
Starved his already suffering people with sanctions, 100,000's dead.
Killed over 10,000 Iraqi civilians to oust the US's own employee?

And all you can focus on is he was rich while his people were poor?

[homelandpunk]

54. ooooooo....w-w-w-w-w-o-o-w-w-w-w.

You have a little inscription on your posts: Take no shit. I have been giving you shit thru this thread but you won't answer. You are a shit taker if I ever seen one.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scottxyz]

39. So baclava did it because... it was his "job"

Debating 101 - "Pick a high-falutin' quote from some classical-sounding guy we vaguely remember, and try to twist it to fit your lame argument."

= = =

Nice try Baclava.

So reason you went to Iraq was either:

(1) Saddam had WMDs which he could launch within 45 minutes... NOT!

or

(2) PNAC decided that because of Peak Oil, we need to take Iraq rather than ban SUVs and develop alternative energy

or

(3) Iraq started selling oil for Euros instead of USDs, threatening to make our paper worthless, so we had to punish them

or

(4) It was your job. You need the paycheck to feed your kids.

So what you were fighting for was either the right to drive SUVs forever, the right to rule the world with worthless paper - or your paycheck.

[Ignis]

43. Actually...

Wasn't it supposed to be something about supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

I'm having a wee bit of trouble tying that oath in with the stated goals (let alone the real ones listed above) of the recent Iraq Invasion.

But he's got the 2004 'Butcher Than Thou' award in the bag, if nothing else.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scottxyz]

46. You miss the point yet again, Baclava

Baclava says: "I didn't mean to sound like a hardass...but any compassion is saved for my guys first. The rest of the world is going to have to wait."

Check the original post, and most of the responses, Baclava.

Nobody was asking for your compassion.

We were asking whether we went after the right guys.

I realize that, as a soldier, that's not your decision to make - but as a citizen, you can feel free to speak up and think about this question.

Did we go after the right guys?

Was there any way we could figure out who to go after if the only way to participate in intelligence analysis or in Turkey dinner meetings was by first declaring your 100% loyalty to a particular agenda?

Baclava says: "It's nice to be home and not have to worry about mortar rounds raining down on my safe and secure house. But safety at home comes with a price that not everyone is willing to pay."

Yes, it is. But again, Baclava, you're answering a question that wasn't asked.

The question is this: was Iraq actually a threat to our "safety at home"? Was getting rid of Saddam something "worth fighting for"?

Our resources are not unlimited. We can't fight every tinpot dictator who comes along. We have to make sure we go after the guys who really do threaten our "safety at home."

Now that people are really examining this war, it's starting to look like the whole WMD thing was a convenient lie - so it looks like whether or not you went and got paid and saw buddies die and lose both legs, we all could have sat safe in our houses.

= = =

Yes, Baclava, safety does come at a price.

The price is usually going and blowing up the guy that's trying to blow you up.

But the question here, which you seem to be totally deaf to, is the following:

DID WE GO BLOW UP THE RIGHT GUY?

= = =

If our leaders determine which country is the threat, we're fortunate that there's brave souls such as you who think that seeing a buddy get his legs amputated is "no big deal".

We're not really criticizing here the guys who do all the heavy lifting. We're criticizing the leaders back in DC who figure out WHAT to tell them to lift.

Different question than the one you're answering.

Maybe you're just the kinda guy who's used to taking orders, and an order is an order and you follow it and that's good.

What you need to remember is that orders don't grow on trees or get handed down on stone tablets: there's a process of intelligence-gathering and threat assessment and strategizing that goes into creating those orders you so automatically follow in pursuit of your paycheck.

Maybe you don't often wonder about those things:

- How do our leaders decide what orders to issue?
- How can we be sure they're issuing the right orders?
- If they're trying to debate between giving order X or order Y, and if they announce that people who support X will get Turkey dinners while people who support Y will get MREs, do you think it might result in the wrong orders getting issued sometimes?

This is the question being raised here, which you are still failing to address. You keep automatically assuming that the orders were correct - and as a soldier, such automatic obedience is an admirable thing.

But a commander doesn't have the luxury of automatically obeying anyone. A commander has to figure out what orders to issue - which countries to attack.

This thread is saying maybe we fought the WRONG country. If you want to rebut this thread, you need to say why you think we fought the RIGHT country - and stop telling us that "some things are worth fighting for" - which we already know.

= = =

"It is not by speeches and majority resolutions that the great questions of our time are decided...It is by blood and iron."
-Von Bismarck

Nice quote. You see what's wrong with it now, in the case of the Iraq war. This quote assumes that we already KNOW which battle to fight, and we go out and fight it.

What if we don't know which battle to fight? Do you answer that question with blood and iron too?

[devinsgram]

22. Great interveiw

I've printed so I can show some repug family members that think * is doing a good job.

[NJmaverick]

23. It's a real shame

The main stream media should be picking up on stories like this.

[Beam Me Up]

31. I'm so MAD I don't know whether to

scream, cry or just :puke: !

[scottxyz]

40. Baclava needs to understand another reason why he carries no weight

This part right here:

What did you think about President Bush’s Thanksgiving visit to Iraq?

> I was there when President Bush came to the airport. The day before, you had to fill out a questionnaire and answer questions, that would determine whether they would allow you in the room with the President.

What was on the questionnaire?

> “Do you support the president?”

Really!

> Yes.

Members of the military were asked whether they support the president politically?

> Yes. And if the answer was not a gung-ho, A-1, 100 percent yes, then you were not allowed into the cafeteria. You were not allowed to eat the Thanksgiving meal that day. You had an MRE.

What’s an MRE?

> Meals ready to eat. We also call them “meals refused by Ethiopians.”

= = =

Baclava's here trying to say this was something worth fighting for (SUVs, paper dollars, or his paycheck - whatever).

The original article was trying to say that it's hard to know whether something's worth fighting for if the only people allowed into the Turkey-dinner meetings have to pre-sign a slip saying they fully support the President.

This article is trying to tell you YOU MAY HAVE BEEN CONNED, YOU MAY HAVE BEEN LIED TO, because the only people well-fed enough to offer you their opinions over the past few months have been the people who got the Turkey dinner.

What this article is saying, Baclava, is that there is another side to this issue which maybe you haven't heard because it's being censored by hanging Turkey dinners over people's heads.

What this article is saying, Baclava, is that maybe you've been lied to. Maybe you've been lied to about the reason you were sent over there. And maybe, in order to avoid having a total mental meltdown over this massive betrayal, it's just easier to sign on the dotted line for your Turkey dinner rather than face the truth AND an MRE.

And you have just shown yourself to be terribly deluded, because when you tried to say that there was a REASON for going over there, SOMETHING WORTH FIGHTING FOR, the most you could do was quote some guy named John Stuart Mill - but then you forgot to mention the REASON, THE THING WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

And then you accidentally gave it away by saying the REASON, THE THING WORTH FIGHTING FOR, was your JOB. Being able to provide for your kids.

You admitted that the reason you went over there for FOR THE PAYCHECK. You're admitting YOU DON'T CARE whether it was for the oil or for "petro-dollars" vs "petro-euros" - you're just a guy with a JOB, a guy getting paid.

First of all, you ought to remember that the "I was only doing my job" line has NO credibility any more - ESPECIALLY when justifying murders committed under orders in a unilateral war. (The classic example of the discredited "I was only doing my job" line comes from Nazi Germany, where the people running the concentration camp fell back on that as a "reason" why they did what they did. Not because they hated Jews and fags and gypsies, but just because "I was doing my job.")

So you may not realize how pathetic you sound when you say the "reason" you were fighting in Iraq was because you were "doing your job" - but trust me, you do.

If you would be interested in debating the points addressed by the original post, that would be another story.

The points are:

(1) What is the reason for the war in Iraq? Was it justified?

(2) If the reason was to disarm Saddam's WMDs, why weren't any found?

(3) Even granting that no WMDs have been found, wasn't another reason "disarming Saddam"? Now that we've done that, shouldn't we be going home?

(4) What about all those things they said were going to happen in Iraq - what about all those justifications they gave during the runup:

- It's gonna be a cakewalk - short and sweet.
- We're gonna be greeted as heroes.
- Democracy and capitalism will soon be flourishing in Iraq.

Why were we so wrong on those things too? Could it be because we've been getting lied to big-time - could it be because nobody was allowed into the meetings unless they first signed a paper saying "I fully support the President (and PNAC)"?

Tell us why YOU think the war was justified, Baclava. Give us your best John Stuart Mill reason of "SOMETHING WORTH FIGHTING FOR" (aside from your paycheck).

Tell us whether YOU think any of the expectations and objectives of the war planners have been even remotely on-target.

[Roy]

44. Maybe ..... Maybe not

"This article is trying to tell you YOU MAY HAVE BEEN CONNED, YOU MAY HAVE BEEN LIED TO,"

Or maybe Mr/Ms Baclava....

1. Wants to be lied to

2. Is just another conservative pretending to be something s/he is not.
Most of my pictures from my service experience include pictures of me and/or my buddies that served with me. Not pictures that could have come from a postcard or result of a quick google search.

3. Another RNC paid troll who travels from board to board to disrupt progressive converstion on issues. Who usually disappear leaving questions unanswered when asked to back up what they say or civily engage in discourse.

[northofdenali]

41. Iraq, one year later.................

from David Horsey at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=983

:cry::mad::cry:

[northofdenali]

42. Iraq, one year later.................

from David Horsey at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=983

:cry::mad::cry:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. That cartoon speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[OKNancy]

49. This has been posted several times on DU

and each time there are many skeptics who have spoken up. They seem to think that this interview is a fake.

I don't know either way, but the chiropractor author has some odd articles ( per google)

[scottxyz]

50. I think it was another article on DU which might have been a fake

There WAS another interview on DU with a soldier, and the stuff he was saying sounded more like lines a civilian might have learned back here at home, so it might have been a fake.

But that was a different interview.

This interview sounds more legit. The guy's talking mainly about how life was for him in Iraq, his whole point of view is centered on Iraq, and not Stateside, so it sounds like this interview is legit.

Are there any points of fact in the interview which seem false?