A call for Christians to PROVE that bush is NOT one

[mopaul]

All true Christians need to wake their hypnotized brothers and sisters up and inform them that bush is a totally phony poser.
He wouldn't know a real Christian if he tripped over one. And his shameless exploitation of Jesus, to throw red meat to the blind-faithful voting block, is obscenely hypocritical and manipulative.

We have seen how crassly they've used the image of a dead firefighter to dredge up sympathy and votes, so we know that there is no level to which they won't sink to manipulate our minds. They do the same to the Christian Conservatives who are blind to his obvious phoniness.

Blind faith is dangerous, and bushco is taking full, sick advantage of it. My mother, a lifelong Democrat, is a born again Christian, who actually believes that he is a Godly and Christian man. She is hypnotized by blind faith. And there is nothing that I can say to change her mind, because she and millions of others have been tricked into a herd mentality.

Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the Earth. But there is nothing meek about his murderous, imperialist 'foreign policy'. Would Christ have sanctioned the uncountable thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq? Would Christ have suggested revenge for 9-11?
Especially on two nations that had NOTHING to do with it? Would Jesus
have given a tax break to only the richest among us? Would Jesus have approved of bush using his name to stir up true believers to vote for global domination?

bush needs to be exposed as the world's NUMBER ONE PHONY CHRISTIAN.

Do you know of any Christians who are under this state of hypnosis?
Blindly falling in line behind every evil program from these demonic men? You need to reach out to these people, and show them concrete evidence that bush is not only NOT a Christian, but more of an anti-Christ, or even Satanic figure. But it must be done gently, and convincingly.

I don't know how to do it, I'm too radical and undiplomatic. I get so angry when I see how easily fooled the Christian bush supporters are. They call into C-span saying the same mantras: "I support our president cause he is a godly man", or, "He is a good Christian man who reads the Bible everyday." They are very, very deluded by the sickening pandering and exploitation of these hollow men.

The republicans have been herding the hypnotized faithful around like fattened calves with a ring in their noses for over 3 decades now, and this November, they are counting on the flock to trot to the poles, for the slaughter. For too long, they've used this lie to get elected, knowing that the faithful are waiting in the polling stations.

Never has there been a more crass and obvious misuse of people's faith for political gain, than bush's phony faith-based persona.
Never has the threat of totalitarianism and imperialism been so great.
True Christians, who are not deluded and mesmerized, should reach out, en mass, to cut through the fog of faith that blinds them to his true evil. He is using your Christianity, to fill the pockets of the already stinking rich and powerful, and he intends to inherit the Earth, not through meekness and Christian humbleness, but through Roman style aggression and slaughter.

Why can't the deluded faithful see through him? Why do they see a Christian, when he is so plainly demonic? Why have they allowed the prince of peace to be turned into Rambo? Why do they send him money, instead of to the poor? Why do they pray for him, when he cares not one whit for them? Is there any way to reach these people?

To all the enlightened Christian Democrats and liberals: Please reach out to your fellow faithful, and coax them back onto the proper path of righteousness, and the true path, of world peace and Christian kindness. They are good people, and they are our brothers and sisters, but they have lost their way.

Amen, and amen.

[salinen]

1. Amen

[mopaul]

2. david limbaugh and james dobson on c-span two inciting a riot

on this mellow sunday morning. how liberals are waging war against christianity is the title of dobson's book. rush's brother is seeking his own niche in the new world order, with his book called, persecution. does the sickness never end?

[mediaman007]

3. Just let them replace the 10 Commandments with these:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

[LeahMira]

4. What is it they want?

Why can't the deluded faithful see through him? Why do they see a Christian, when he is so plainly demonic?

I think that Christians have the idea that G-d directly punishes wrongdoing. They see a lot of wrongdoing out there, and also a lot of hard times. I think they believe that if the country were made into a "Christian nation" all the hard times would be done with and we would all live in peace, prosperity and happiness.

Unfortunately, they also believe that if a group of people stubbornly won't buy into that plan, they have no choice but to put them out of existence as the only way to rid their world of "evil."

I think that in many ways they want some of the same kinds of things we all want. They simply think that those things can't happen unless and until everyone turns to G-d... their version.

They like to cite the example of ancient Rome to prove that when a society becomes so depraved it will fall. They see the U.S. as becoming depraved, and they believe it will fall unless they can turn it around.

Bush appeals to that mindset.

I think that unless we understand what it is that they want, we'll never be able to convince them that there are choices. Sometimes it seems that the only answers they are hearing to their concerns are answers that belittle their beliefs.

I agree that those beliefs are simplistic and childlike. Still, in order to teach them to think more deeply about the issues that are of concern, we have to begin where they are and lead them to the next step. It takes patience and respect for their humanity, even while it's hard to respect people who despise us, but I think it has to be done. Otherwise, we wind up talking past one another. And otherwise, they will remain unconvinced.

[Flubadubya]

32. "They see the U.S. as becoming depraved..."

But they see themselves as the TRUE harbingers of enlightenment, not a part of the depravity. They do not see that in their efforts to force their brand of religion upon EVERYONE else that they have become themselves the source of depravity.

They willfully disregard another quite plain and quite simple Christian tenet: "Resist ye not evil lest ye yourself become evil."

I don't know that they will ever "get" this one. I'm know that all the "domininists" are on this self-defeatist path, and believe that many "good Christians" are falling lockstep in pace with the march. Those who believe that this country would be at its shining best were it a Christian theocracy really don't have a clue what they are wishing for and what it would bring down upon even their own heads.

I just don't know what it will take for them to "wise up". How DOES one attain wisdom in a world gone mad?

[mopaul]

5. kick

...

[Andy_Stephenson]

6. His own Church denounced....

his actions in Iraq.

[Serenades]

7. I don't . . .

. . . think that us *real* Christians need to expose anyone. His actions speak for themselves. The people who are brainwashed by this administration are akin to people that join cult groups. They are so in love with the fact that the man has an "R" by his name that they can see no wrong. It is as simple as that. If the exact same man (George W. Bush) had a "D" by his name you would hear the same people talk about how dumb he is, he started an illegal war, he has no morals because he used to drink and had a drug problem, etc. These people will never listen until something big happens to shake their faith in him (like a massive sign from God).

[seabeyond]

8. mopaul last nite was thinking

i am already talking to christian speaking how exactly not christian he is and easy so very easy for them to see with just a handful of example, but bigger, last nite talking to son and reading some threads here, i am going to my school to the head dude a preacher here in town, and i am going to go to the other preachers, and talk.

even in my paganism i speak in love and truth so it is easy for them to hear me, keep fingers crossed. and i want people thru out the south to go to their ministers. and i am going to talk

they are so busy reaching out to convert. they have to get in their own group and start healing. this is a greater responsibility. i am seeing such a hate being built up by the church, and i know they dont see how ugly they have become. it is time they start cooling off the hate they have created in their group, and when kerry wins, there is going to be that hate, and the ministers are going to have to be responsible because they created this with their followers thru fear.

there are so many examples it is not going to be hard to see. they have just lost their way a bit, they need to be guided back on the path in love.

cool that you bring this up now. i so agree with you. got to start with the power of the people.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. More people need to do this!

Anyone here who goes to church, or even if you don't, needs to start discussing these issues with their ministers. The only base Bu$h has left is the fundamentalist right wing republicans and in order to assure a landslide in Nov. this base needs to see the light and quick.

I for the life of me, can't understand how otherwise intelligent people refuse to see Bu$h for what he really is. It was even predicted in the bible that there would be antichrists and that one in particular was going to convince everyone that he was Christ. The way you were supposed to know that he was actually the deceiver was that he would be the total opposite of the Christ. It seems to me that W is the fulfillment of the prophecies, just not the prophecy he claims to fulfill.

So how do we wake these folks up? Talking to your clergy is a great place to start. Another idea I've thought about is to make flyers to hand out outside church or put on their cars while they are inside praying to Mithras. They could be like little messages from Jesus asking them why they are allowing such horrible thing to be done in his name?

[neebob]

10. Yeah, but then who will take up their causes?

Who's gonna rid the world of gayness and nakedness and swearing and women who insist on deciding whether and how many children to have - and let's not forget about heathens who hate us for our freedoms - and is already in a position to do it? A bush in the hand, don'tcha know.

On edit, I should add that in "their causes," I'm not referring to all Christians but the ones who are making all the noise and blindly supporting the Evil Churchy War Chimp. Most people, regardless of their religious beliefs, don't see him for what he is. Try getting someone who believes he was chosen by God to see it.

[seabeyond]

13. and lets not forget

so many of these people that we can talk..........are they in anymore peace than the people on the right.

it is a matter of showing the right and let them understand again, in their talk...............you take care of all these people and issue in love and not hate. nothing else matters til they are there. they do this in fear. they need to step away from fear as much of all these souls on left dictating exactly whom i am suppose to be in their soccor mom way. no one better than the other in conditioning, dictating, controlling, and in fear also. the basis, god gave us free will, and if he gives that, trusts in that, then surely we as man are suppose to.

start sitting down and talking. so many people around me, have watched for a decade how i have lived life. in past i never stayed in area, never wanted anyone to know me. this is eay enough. look at me and find my evilness. give it to me. i give it to you to create me in darkness. where oh where is it. the first baptists start feeding the kids, we are all sinners. i look at my four year old's face as i am to teach verse and say in laughter and joy, sinner! sinner! where be the sinner in that bee u tee full face of yours in such song and lite.

debunking the conditioning. yada yada yada sinner my ass, now learn the verse.

when you speak in ultimate truth and laughter and joy and not fear, it is so easily heard.

i swear my bumper sticker should be..........truth is not painful, i assure promise tell you. it allows you to be free.

that is why kerry getting caught with liar and crook, and simply saying out loud and not taking back, you are seeing bushco the emporior without clothes, and now in just a big ole giggle, what power do they have. none. not in nakedness. they put naked in shame. they are so uncomfortable in naked and look baffoonish. i often gauge life, how comfortable am i in the nakedness of life. feeling pretty good their, the wind on the body.......

and to be blunt, i dont want the sexual of homosexuality taught and given and fed to my kids and i dont want the sexual of heterosexual life fed to my kids. i drive down the freeway on a family vacation with a 4 and 6 year old boys and a trucker has a playboy picture womans leg spread in my kids face. fuck that shit. and i turn on a kids channel, animal planet to educate and sittin as a family as we pack for a family vacation to florida, and a woman comes on tv taking a shower washing her hair an having an orgasm. my two boys at end of bed, eyes huge, they dont get, and then man doing mouth wash and at end spits it into the mirror, in what ejaculation........and my boys turn to me in question and i have to giggle and say silly woman. and change the subject. (herbal essence commercial) not their time to learn about that. they dont want. not appropriate. they stopped watching football cause of the coor commercial soft porn, wrote to coors and got thru in email conversationa and told them, i am not feeding my children that shit, how dare . and yes, they have responsibility, an obligation

so in my talking to the right, i am going to know from whence their fear is. i have to deal with the shit too. in raising some healthy balanced boys.

my obligation i take seriously as a parent. as i think we would all agree i should.

[neebob]

15. Who's teaching homosexuality to your kids?

If you're referring to what's on television, I see it as finally recognizing that homosexuals exist and are regular folks, too, and should be allowed to walk around being who they are - not to mention having the same rights as everyone else. That's what's being taught, in my opinion, and I think it's a good thing.

[seabeyond]

16. gonna walk this gently and try to be clear

since a child gosh in the early 70's fear of homosexuality didnt make sense to me. the going to hell my ass, you cant tell me someone of love was going to hell, not, and that included having sex outside of marriage that was fed to us. and all the other reason that didnt matter to who we were in life and what we gave in love. and i have two brother in laws gay, and my children go to one of them if we die, and my bestest friend, i love so in calif, simply beauty to me.

so this is where i speak from. my children do not want the sexual part of homosexuality and so ok. sometimes it is a man and man and woman and woman and man and woman.

it is a sudtle with the children and their programming and it is both in the hetero and homo sexual, they equally feed, neither do i want. disney is conscious of what they do. cant really come up with any concrete.

and you know i dont think i could be real truthful about it without someone deciding i was being unfair, so not even going to go there.

anyway, i exactly like what the gays have done the last couple months, and have valued the grace they have brought it with the children. i think they have been terrific in expression, i want my kids to know it is about their rights also, and the comparison to a history with blacks and women, and this is just another step in evolution. i dont want to get into the nitty griddy cause they saw something on tv. and there are personal reason for that also, with an older boy, i allow to be. in his own discoveries.

[neebob]

19. Okay, so your issue is with having to explain the nitty gritty?

Better you should explain it to them than their friends, which they will - and then you don't know what information they're getting and you're denying them your perspective to balance it out.

And what if it turns out one of them is gay? It sounds like you're assuming that won't happen.

As the mother of a 15-year-old boy, I will testify to the prevalence of anti-gay attitudes among teenagers. I'm constantly on my son about using the terms gay and homo in a derogatory manner. This is so gay, that's so gay. He's this kind of homo or that kind of homo. The BMXers call the skateboarders "skater fags," and vice versa. It's obviously OK in my son's crowd, maybe not to bash the gay kids (though I'm not stupid enough to believe they don't do it), but to throw these words around in negative ways. It was OK in my day, and it's almost as OK now to demean homosexuals.

I think acknowledging and presenting homosexuality in a matter-of-fact way on television is a good way to counter it. As for programming, I don't think it's possible to program sexual orientation, and I don't think the homosexuals on TV are programming anything but acceptance. What I do think is being programmed (and I have a serious problem with) is the attitude that sex and hooking up are more important than anything else. Teaching girls that boys are these glittering prizes and teaching boys that beautiful girls are better than smart ones and they must have a bevy of beautiful girls around them at all times.

And you know, I just don't remember a single instance of my son asking me a question about something he saw on TV. Perhaps that's because he never needed to ask, because I never made overt attempts to shield him from anything or made out like it was naughty and bad. I took advantage of the many opportunities to share my opinions on whatever was on.

[seabeyond]

21. you are talking 15, i am talking two to eight

and the tough talking this subject there are a lot of assumptions. my children ask and tell me things all the time on tv, such open conversation have talked so many things. no i am not afraid to talk sexuality with anyone, lol lol. i do allow a person to decide if they want the information. at four and five on the play ground the children are learning a lot in the power play of male and female and the battle in it. and there is so much to learn and embrace and accept, sexuality isnt really relevant at that age. nor teaching these young boys about rape and 16 year olds getting preg. that comes more thru 8-10-12 depending on enviroment of child and what he is being given

also you are wrong, or did not read correctly on my son and if he may be homosexual. at about four or five i started reading on homosexuality cause of who my son was/is. and to allow him to walk life with his drummer and not interfer, but watch and thank for what he does express in this area. he is a smart, sensitive, soft, kind, small frame, so gay like child. already he has been told he is so gay. and have sat with and allowed him to discuss it with me, i still dont bring it to boys butt fucking other boys, just as i wouldnt with monica going down and sucking clinton dick for him to ejaculate in her mouth. not age appropriate.

[neebob]

22. I think you may be reading too much into my post

I have made very few assumptions about you personally. I merely said you seem to be assuming your children are not gay. That's because you said they don't want homosexuality. Perhaps it was a language thing. My mistake.

Otherwise, I assumed you don't like explaining the nitty gritty, homosexual or heterosexual, and maybe I assumed you have a bigger problem with the former than the latter. That's because of what you said about not going there.

In general, you seem very tolerant, and I'm not trying to correct you or question your parenting. Just stating an alternative viewpoint, and it wasn't as aimed at you as you seem to think. To me it was all in the context of the big sudden moral crusade to clean up the airwaves.

[seabeyond]

23. neebob

i understand what you are saying of course the right had to take it to the extreme and the taking away rights. i am not an advocate of that, i feel we can clearly do all right. i think we can have child channels for four five six year old that isnt sexual cause behavorially they arent there, and the sterns, i sit in giggle in their extremism and yet a reflection of who we are as a society so i find him interesting and have listened to him when he talks. real stuff, not the puking on a man stuff. and maybe the driver of a big truck can think twice putting the porn out to the public, if he really has to have it in face, point it to him so we arent forced to particpate.

i think in the extremism of bushco, unfortunately took the super bowl message and reduced it to a tit. that isnt the issue with families, nor stern, never was. it is ok, with rationality i am sure we took a huge step to understanding and seeing our obsurdities in this.

your 15 year old son, mine will be too in time. totally supportive of you what you give them, i too am equally allowing my boys.

i a not concerned for my boys, and i am not concerned for yours. you will bring it into balance as i do, with each event. we put in the work, this is a concern for the nation though, and i think we will get further if we recognize and embrace and come up with solutions and if not, i will just teach show allow them to see the absurdity in it and that will be their lesson.

[neebob]

26. Which brings me back to my original point

that talking to those who take it to the extreme is an exercise in futility. I've tried it with my mother. So convinced is she that George W. Bush is committed to removing what she sees as the ills of society - i.e., obscenity, homosexuality, and abortion - so programmed to believe the United States is the best country in the world and everything it does is good and righteous and endorsed by God, it's pointless to try and get her to expand her standards of wrong and right - much less apply them to President Wonderful Goodperson. Might as well talk about morals to a box of rocks or a pile of hair.

[seabeyond]

27. but...........

there are some people that will listen. they are the ones i want to talk too. not the hannity's and limbaugh's..........or your mother, lol lol she gets to be and i love her anyway, and not the guy across the street that flies the confederate flag and has three mean rotweillers and 50 something guns swatt confiscated a year ago blocking off our area and sitting in our yard at midnight.

i want to talk to the one that knows how to love but been conditioned gay is sin and take it beyond to example how we have done beginning of time creating certain groups in darkness.

was fun talking neebob, you helped me a lot in focus and clearity

[niceypoo]

11. Awsome thread dude!

The right wing nutjobs in my chatroom are at a loss after I posted parts of it to the room.....Ironically Im using the mo paul PREZ picture as my avatar. Keep it coming. The DU is almost better that Rack Jite!
Peace V

[never cry wolf]

12. Here's some more fodder for you

I put this together for an email to a friend, kinda long but pick and choose what works for ya:

If the right-wingers really studied the matter, they'd find they have more in common with Muhammad than with Jesus. Muhammad was a merchant, a businessman and entrepreneur - a capitalist. Before Jesus walked off his job, he was a carpenter, a common laborer - and with his talk of brotherhood, no doubt would have been a union man.

He hung out with the dregs of society: the poor, prostitutes, tax collectors, and finally thieves. Not exactly the kind of person to whom you would entrust your most precious and eternal possession: your stock portfolio.

Jesus revealed his anti-business agenda as soon as he threw the money-changers out of the temple. To the orthodox for whom taxation is government organized theft, Jesus' clear advocacy of paying taxes by "rendering unto Caesar" is a complete abomination. Scholars are still divided over whether the raising of Lazarus was to escape the death tax or an intent to pay it twice.

--------------------

Jesus mollycoddled the poor and went out of his way to condemn the rich. His warning that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven was typical socialist blather. The affluent have had to devote themselves to breeding smaller camels and building larger needles ever since.

------------------
Jesus' purpose in life was to do the will of His heavenly Father. Wherever He went, He brought goodness. He never hurt or injured anyone, although He did get angry at others who did wrong. He called self-righteous church-going people vipers and once turned over tables in the temple where money-changers were taking advantage of the people.

Jesus was friends with the outcast of society—sinners. He reached out to the publicans, thieves, prostitutes. He never scorned anyone. He knew what was in the heart of a man (or woman). Just because they were religious did not mean that they knew God.

----------------------

Jesus challenged the Pharisees’ purity system by almost everything he did. It’s no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards — all of those people at the very bottom of the Who’s Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system — the temple — by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received “under the table” when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Father’s house into a “den of robbers,” as it’s recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

--------------------------

Jesus also had withering words for the wealthy who oppressed--or simply ignored --the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort" (Luke 6:20, 24).

Genuine followers of Jesus have a sense of joy and satisfaction in who they are--at whatever "level" on the social or ecclesiastical ladder they may find themselves.

Jesus said, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11).

----------------------------

5. His earthly father was a carpenter, a humble hewer of wood with whom He lived and laboured, conforming to our human ways of life, custom, language and living that He might understand and love us better and communicate with us on the lowly level of our own limited human understanding!--He learned to LOVE Mankind. He saw their suffering and had great compassion on them, longing to not only heal their sick and broken bodies, but also to save their immortal spirits!

6. When the time came and He began his life's work, He went about everywhere doing good.--Helping people, loving children, healing heartaches, strengthening tired bodies, saving whom He could. He not PREACHED His message, but He LIVED it amongst us. He not only ministered to their spiritual needs, but He spent a great deal of time ministering to their physical and material needs, miraculously healing them when they were sick, feeding them when they were hungry and sharing His life and His Love!

7. He was so simple and His religion was so simple that He said you must become as a little CHILD to receive it! He didn't preach Temple worship, He didn't preach going to synagogue nor going to church, He didn't preach any complicated ceremonies or difficult rules.--All he did was preach LOVE and show Love, as He strove to lead God's children into the True Kingdom of God, whose only laws are to "love the Lord with all thy heart" and "love thy neighbour as thyself".

8. He had very little to do with the high-fallutin', rich-robed, churchy scribes, pharisees and hypocrites--the religious leaders of that day--except when they insisted on annoying Him with their critical questions. Then He would sock it to them, publicly exposing them as the "blind leaders of the blind" that they were, even telling them that they were like white-washed SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful, clean and holy on the OUTSIDE, but WITHIN are full of rottenness, corruption and stinking dead men's bones!

9. He was not a mere religious reformer, He was a REVOLUTIONARY! He refused to compromise with the false religious system, but rather worked totally OUTSIDE of it, reaching and sharing His Love with the poor and common folk who had long ago abandoned and been abandoned by organised religion. He never went into any bar with whip in hand, breaking up the bottles and throwing out the bartender. Nor did He ever enter any brothel, beating up the poor girls, overturning their beds and throwing the men out the window.--But He DID make a whip, go into their big beautiful religious Temple, overturn the tables, spill out the money and drive the money-mad money-changers out of the church, condemning them for turning what was supposed to be a house of prayer into a den of thieves!

10. He made Himself of no reputation, and was a companion of drunks and prostitutes, publicans and sinners, the outcasts and downtrodden of society. He even told them that they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before the so-called "good" people, the self-righteous and religious leaders who re jected Him and His simple Message of Love. The power of His Love and of His appeal was so great and gave such great faith to the sincere truth-seekers that they didn't hesitate to drop everything they had and forsake all immediately to become His full-time followers!

----------------------------

From Matthew 25:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for
you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to
eternal life."

[seabeyond]

14. ask and you shall receive, lol

good stuff and i copied, gonna need for exactly what i am talking, thanks,. and another interesting and that you bring up i want to say. the reason the greed doesnt work and they had to learn this in the twenties and truly who we are, it doesnt financially work hording the money as jesus express so dont even bother

economically we learned after the great depression our workers had to get much more of the pie to be successful. i will also say i have run a business a decade and husband in a particular field for that long, and workers, so much of youth expected demanded and didnt know how to work, in my industry, yet those that needed money, this is low paying and hard hot work, worked their ass off for their buck

ed's business in computer and i sat in astonishment the whiners, who sat on ass gettting much more then these uneducated hard workers,. and these people wanted more and more. ed, type of business person, doesnt want to direct and boss, he wants them to know their job leave them alone and let them do. didnt work. brought him to our basement where he is the employee dependent only on self. perfect for his disposition, he doesnt delegate.

just a little thought on the battle of the employeer and employee

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

17. First you have to recognize when someone is a lost cause

don't waste your time on such people unless you just have a ton of it and are feeling a little sadistic.

Secondly, it takes time. I have a dear friend whom I have made great progress with (and it is NOT just due to me but a few factors in her life, as well) in this area. We are both Christians, Methodists, and she attends the church I used to go to. I have had countless conversations with her and her husband over the past two years and she has come a LONG way.

Two years ago, she made fun of homosexuals, rabidly supported bush. Now she supports gay marriage and is swearing she isn't voting for bush. Now, like I said there are about three other factors besides me causing this, but it helps a lot.

You have to go slow and don't give in to the urge to be as judgemental as them. Listen, commisserate where you can, admit that change is hard and that these are tough issues and sympathize with them where you CAN. Gently make your points. Let them sink in. Don't push too hard. You can make progress when a person has a SOMEWHAT open mind and some kinda heart left in their chest.

[DemonFighterLives]

18. Did someone say Demonic?

No doubt! This man(chimp) is a phony Christian. He has pumped up the fearmongering to such a level that all his followers want to do is kill. Kill everyone that doesn't see things our(US) way. Somehow they have gotten away from the turn the cheek mentality and do not believe in being forthright and Peaceful. They have taken to the idea of speeding up Armegeddon, as if they can control the end times. Not all Christians by any means, but a large core of Fundies who are basically ill informed and easily led.

The only way to break the news to them is for one investigation into Bush Crimes to blossom in the news. He needs to be taken down the old fashioned way. > Reveal the wrongs and uncover the corrupt regime and then, slowly, the sheep will see the light and be thankful for being corrected.

It seems easy for some, especially here to see through the bogus information. But they are doing so good with the facade that even those that see the evil question themselves at times.

[kentuck]

20. Very important issue, MoPaul....

Democrats should only request that so-called Christians read the Sermon on the Mount and then tell us that George W Bush and the Republicans are "Christians". They do not fit the definition. They are political partisans that pretend to be Christians for political advantage, but in no sense of Christ's teachings, can they be considered true "Christians".

[pacifictiger]

24. cult followers are difficult

to persuade - brainwashed to follow the man over the message of truth and enlightenment.

[misanthrope]

25. Easy...

...he's an American capitalist, isn't he? 'Nuff said.

"Preach the gospel always. If necessary, use words." -Francis of Assisi

American Christians are terrified of following their savior's example very closely.

[PA Democrat]

28. Bush's claim that he reads the Bible every day

just doesn't ring true. After all, according to Paul O'Neill, this is the man who couldn't bother to read short 1 and 2 page memos about critical policy decisions. Bush himself admitted that he didn't read the newspaper.

I remember some reporter asking Bush what he was currently reading in the bible, and Bush was unable to answer.

[mopaul]

31. his born again experience is a total lie

i can see right through him. all he had to do was SAY he was born again, but i don't believe it. most of his supporters do though, seeming to respond to certain phrases, like when he was asked, who is your favorite political philosopher, and he didn't even know what the hell that meant, and he said, "Jesus Christ" i almost vomited.

[Festivito]

29. One way: a non-Christian cannot determine a non-Christian.

That is under the perview of God.
If someone calls another a non-believer, they look like a non-believer to me, but, I can't prove it.

We can choose to retain sins, risking our own eternal damnation.
But, God makes the final call.

[seabeyond]

30. i agree

i have no desire to tell another who they are, and that certainly includes whether they are christians or not. who am i to know. i can only share who i am. equally no one gets to decide who i am but me.

[arewethereyet]

33. its only non-Christians that make these sorts of obsertations

as such it doesn't mean much. I think someone in a position to speak on this said "forgive them Lord, they know not what they do".