Are Fundamentalist Christians welcome in the Democratic Party?

[patricia92243]

Poll question: Are Fundamentalist Christians welcome in the Democratic Party?

I get the feeling they are not, and I cannot say strongly enough how this hurts our party.

[youngred]

1. Fundamentalist Christians vote approx 50% Dem, 50% Repuke

its just the loud, vocal assholes who steal all the attention. I'm talking fundies, not other Christians.

[PDittie]

17. There are large numbers of black Christians

who are evangelical Christians, who have a long history of supporting liberal causes, who support gay marriage and vote Democratic.

So if your terms are more specifically defined as 'white fundamentalist Christians in the South'...

...well, there's a tremendous growth opportunity for Democrats there.
Probably not in this election cycle.

[salinen]

2. Or

Are Democratic principles welcome to Fundamentalist Christians?

[Bertha Venation]

5. I know at least six people who say "yes," salinen:

My in-laws, Jim & Alice of Tennessee; my dad & stepmother, Dennis & Nancy of California; dear friends Carol & Jim, also of California (by way of Oklahoma).

[salinen]

8. Wonderful family!

[Bertha Venation]

9. Yep. Too bad one third of them can't accept their gay daughter & DIL.

(My parents.) :shrug:

Still, they won't be voting for * in the fall.

[chicagojoe]

13. Great Name!!!! Bertha Venation !!!!!

[Bertha Venation]

21. Thank Harvey Fierstien.

:D

[rucky]

18. My fundie in-laws voted for Kucinich

check out this site:

www.sojo.org

[randr]

3. Fundamentalist are free to make up their own minds

unless there are pressures put upon them to conform.
One of the privileges of being a democrat is that no one ignores or dismisses other opinions when shared in good faith.

[K-W]

4. You can be a fundementalist and still respect a secular government.

It is the loud fringe minority who cannot.

[whistle]

6. Why not, I saw the Passion of Christ...

...and would welcome an open dialog about the film and it's deeper meaning for world unity.:think:

[Bertha Venation]

10. What is the film's deeper meaning for world unity? eom

[Wickerman]

7. I am not aware of Dems chasing out Fundies

have some examples (perceptions on DU don't count - this is a small microcosm of the party and even at that, I don't see but some minority of vocal resistance)?

I think Fundies can find some unpalatable issues within the dem party. Choice comes to mind. To say that because that part of the platform hasn't changed Dems aren't welcoming of Fundies would be incorrect - no one party is going to meet each of your beliefs.

THose are my guesses. Tell me what you see as the shutting out of fundamentalists.

[Touchdown]

11. Basically yes, but gays would have to leave.

Thw two cannot co-exist together in a common cause. They are diametrically opposed political groups. Gays want to be equal under the law, and fundamentalists deny that gay people exist (they make a choice), that their just straight people who fool around with the same sex as some kind of anarchist statement and religious taunt, and therefore see no reason to allow equality.

Don't blame me, or gay people. It was the fundamentalists who drew this line in the sand.

Ask me if I'm bitter.;-)

[chicagojoe]

15. But wouldn't this be a great way...

... to find out if ALL fundamentalists truly feel the same way ?
I have a sister-in-law who's a fundie, yet lately she's been softening on the gay thing. She's even stopped calling gays "homosexuals" in that nasty tone that wrong-wingers like to use.
My point is this: maybe all fundies don't feel the same way that the blowhards like Robertson and Santorum do.

[belle]

20. Oh, on a one-on-one basis, sure.

I agree: it's important to talk to the individuals in your life and find each others' common humanity. It's also important not to treat any "group" of people as a big scary monolith. There are plenty of fundamentalists who are good, ordinary people; more than not, I'd say. I just don't think that political efforts to target the "fundamentalist demographic"--you know, talking points, whatever, I don't know what the poller here had in mind--are worthwhile.

I DO think that there's a lot that gets tied up with the fundamentalist demographic that tends to get ignored: the stereotypes a lot of people have of "poor white Southern trash," and THAT should definitely be addressed more. A lot of the reason the right-wing fundamentalist preachers like Pat Robertson have gotten such a hook into people who never should've been voting for the party of the Rich White Elite is because they've been able to paint the Democrats as the party of the "real" elite: fancy East Coast (and West Coast) snobs who live decadent lifestyles and sneer at everybody else. Sadly, it's not hard to find evidence of sneering at poor white southerners.

[Touchdown]

24. I already know individuals that are reasonable...

...but what we're talking about here is the general collective of fundamentalist, socially conservative protestants and a smaller contingent of catholics.

Look. Religion (any of them) is by it's very nature and structure, intolerant. The basic tenets of any religion says we believe this, and don't believe that. Put everything you believe into a circle...anything that falls out of that circle is an abberation to the tenets of our faith, and thus not supportable. Would individuals be capable of tolerance for those facets of humanity that falls outside of their circle, when it comes to a pluralistic society? In small numbers, absolutely.

Would the collective Southern Baptist, Mormon, Pentacostal organizations accept this reality in the same pluralistic society...highly doubtful...not only because the major organizations are much more rigid in their doctrines, but in all three of my examples of conservative Christianity, evangelism (witnessing) is also a major tenet of their faiths, and a necessary one for the sect's survival. If, as the Baptists, Pentacostals, et al. believe that converting (saving) as many people as possible , which is their prime objective as members of the faith, then there would be no reason to tolerance of anything that falls out of their circle, since everybody will eventually be Baptist, Pentacostal, etc.

Deepak Chopra wrote once..."God created truth. Then the devil came along to help organize the truth, and called it religion."

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

30. I agree with this.

I cant see how you can square the agendas of the two groups...the gays & lesbians want civil rights protection and marriage (or some form of it) while fundys are opposed to these things.

This is a diametric opposition when it comes to public policy.

[rucky]

12. I would focus on Evangelical Christians

putting them in the forefront will win us the "culture war"... and some of us could learn a thing or two.

www.sojo.org

[RainDog]

14. If they honor the Enlightenment foundations of our democracy

then they should be welcome in any party.

however, if they want to impose a theocracy on this country, then they should not be welcome in any party in this country, because the view that God as fundamentalists perceive God is the basis of our govt. is both wrong and treasonous.

People in this country seem to operate under the mistaken assumption that because someone calls him or herself socially conservative, they cannot be treasonous.

well, that's not true.

if they do not honor the Constitution, the separation of powers, the separation of church and state, then I say they, including "fundamentalists" such as Antonin Scalia, Pat Robertson, George W., and many current members of Congress are agents of treason.

If they are willing to acknowledge the separation of church and state, then no problem.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

27. Agreed. Dominionism is the biggest threat to our country, not bin Laden.

And, not to be hostile to Fundamentalists but to frame the very real concerns that we Constitutionalists have regarding theocracy, here is my synopsis with links on the topic pulled out of storage:

Religion is the biggest arrow in the quiver of the Culture War to hijack control of the biggest weapon on the planet, the US government. Television is a close second for filling the collective American mind with manipulative fearmongering. Combined, they are a 24/7 Nuremberg rally of adrenalin and endorphins, a daily drip of red-white-and-blue indoctri-Nation-alism.

'THE CHOSEN FEW' IS BEING MORPHED INTO 'THE MASTER RACE'
THE SAME WAY 'GET OSAMA' WAS MORPHED INTO 'GET SADDAM'! GET IT?

This is the basic model of this religion-fueled fascism:
Supreme Dictator Smiting Evil-doers Wrathfully Without Legal Restraints.
Sound familar?
Yup. George W. Bush as the American Ayatollah.

We are living in the closing minutes of a culture war that the American Taliban, called Dominionists, are winning.
The US Constitution (of-by-for the people) is being gutted and replaced with the Bible (Divine Right of Kings) to achieve a police-state where everyone who isn't with us goes to Guantanamo Bay to be tortured indefinitely with no legal rights. That is already happening. 'Might Makes Right' is WINNING over 'The Rule of Law.'

The inflammation of the old anti-Semitic, anti-homosexual, anti-abortion, and anti-pornography 'passions' is part of a very real and documented campaign to make this country into a Hitlerian theocracy fueled by militarism and Christian fundamentalist religious dogma called 'Dominionism.'

It’s teachings are the opposite of those of Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount. Instead:
Wealth=virtue/Poverty=sin.
War=safety/Peace=danger.
Monarchy=Success/Democracy=failure.

It is totally Orwellian and some animals are definitely more equal than others. In fact, some deserve to starve. Eugenics serves as domestic policy while imperialism is foreign policy.

We are experiencing the return of eugenics (elimination of the 'weak') in our government's policies that looks very much like the old systems of feudalism, slavery and holocaust.
Have you noticed the body-count in the last three years with no end in sight?


Georgie's brain is much worse than you think and he's being used for terrible purposes. Here's a British clinical psychologist's researched analysis of the boy king. He interviewed Georgie's family, friends and such and determined that he was abused as a child and developed an 'authoritarian personality,' the root of fascism. Read it and weep for him and us.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html
(So George, how do you feel about your mom and dad?)-CLICK

And this personality is being exploited to further the creation of a Hitlerian Theocracy called ‘Dominionism’, which has been going on in this country for the last thirty years. Read it and wonder what the hell we're in for next now that Eugenics is domestic policy and Imperialism is foreign policy.
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_5160.shtml
(God Bless America, The Constitution is Dead)-CLICK

If you'd like to read the full speech of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia back in the dark ages of January 2002 when he said that 'democracy interferes with the Divine Right of Kings and he's doing something about it,' read this and wonder what century we're living in and just what that Constitution was for, anyway.
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/scalia.htm
(God's Justice and Ours)-CLICK

Eugenics, isn’t that a little dramatic? Social conditions have not improved in the United States since 1980.
Using data from the UN and World Bank, researcher Richard Estes created an Index of Social Progress that
takes into account health, education, human rights, political participation, population growth, the status of women, cultural diversity, ‘freedom from social chaos’, military spending, and environmental protection.
In a list that included 163 countries, the United States ranked 27th. Estes, who has researched world social development for 30 years, found the pace of social development to be "on hold" since 1980, putting the U.S. on the same level as Poland and Slovenia in the current "report card.” Yet the US ‘defense’ budget is the size of the next 15 largest in the world combined.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-07/uop-ur2071703.php
(US Ranks 27th in World Social Progress)-CLICK.


How can they get away with it when everyone seems to be mad at Georgie and we're supposed to be able to vote him out of our White House? By fixing the electronic voting machines for 'the House.' Read this and decide which country to escape to this fall when Georgie is reinstalled, like a 'Manchurian Candidate' to finish the job he was sent to do: eliminate democracy, create a police state, and conquer the world as Superman Jesus in a Cowboy Hat.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
(Diebold, Electonic Voting, and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)-CLICK

LATE BREAKING NEWS-FEB. 26 2004
Right now the Dominionists are introducing legislation to replace 'The People' as the authority in our democracy’s Constitution with ‘God’ in a bill called ‘The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004,’ exactly the opposite of what it really is, just like the Patriot Act, the Help America Vote Act, the Leave No Child Behind Act, and the Clear Skies Act. The legalities of the Christian Theocracy are being used to destroy our laws as if by the Taliban in Afghanistan.

This is not a test! It is absolutely real and happening right now while the media are busy covering gay marriage and Mel Gibson’s bloody crucifixion porn film, ‘The Passion of the Christ.’

“…on February 11 , 2004 Dominionist leaders in congress made their move; they introduced a bill in both houses called The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004. Among the sponsors of the bill are Rep. Robert Aderholt (Alabama), Rep. Michael Pence (Indiana), Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, Sen. Zell Miller (Georgia), Sen. Sam Brownback (Kansas), and Sen. Lindsey Graham (South Carolina).

The House version is H.R. 3799 and the Senate version is S. 2082. The bill limits the U.S. Supreme Court and federal courts to hear cases involving “expressions of religious faith by elected or appointed officials.”

Although the claim by its sponsors appears to be that the intention is to prevent the courts from hearing cases involving the Ten Commandments or a Nativity Scene in a public setting from being reviewed, the law is drawn broadly and expressly includes the acknowledgment of God as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of executing his office.”

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0402/S00172.htm
(The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004)-CLICK

[belle]

16. If they find the Democratic Party welcoming, then by all means, but...

if you mean we should downplay issues like womens' rights, gay rights, and so on because they might offend potential fundamentalist voters, then no.

As noted above, evangelicals/born-agains are not necessarily fundamentalist, or vice-versa. I do think that there is a certain suspicion of all things religious and esepcially Christian among *some* people on the left, from mainstream Methodists to God-is-love charismatics to scary Reconstructions; rightfully so in the latter case. But I do think there's enough common ground with a lot of *Christians*--not fundamentalists--and that there should be more of an outreach. Some other people have started talking about trying to find or build a "Religious Left;" I think there are some threads about that somewhere around here...

[jsw_81]

19. Sure

As long as they support the separation of church and state.

[Virginian]

22. Fundies are Dems, too. I don't want to kick them out.

The Democratic party is for ALL people and (except for abortion) it embraces the principles of Christianity better than the Republican party does.

The Republican fundies are making a loud noise because they are led by false prophets who are instruments of the Neo Cons. The Neo Cons have attempted to hijack both the Christian religion and the Republican party. The two are not the same, they are just both hijacked. Any Republicans or Fundamentalists who have not become neo-cons have my respect for thinking for themselves and for not giving up their principles.

Having grown up in the bible belt, I have seen how people use religion to promote their personal interests. This, to me, is the true definition of taking the Lord's name in vain.

[alarimer]

23. maybe

But not if it means the party has to move rightward (more than it has) in order to accomodate them. They have to accept that the platform includes gay rights, choice and separation of church and state. Otherwise they do not belong.

[maggrwaggr]

25. if they're real Christians, they'll already be Democrats

If they're fakes, they'll be repubs.

Everything Christ actually said would make one not merely a democrat but an extremely left-leaning democrat.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

28. Agreed. Sermon on the Mount vs. 'Supply Side Jesus' n/t

[Mr. Socko]

32. I was gonna put that too. Agreed.

Great answer. :hi:

[IronLionZion]

44. totally

Christian beliefs go along with the Dems on everything except abortion. They go along with the Republicans on just abortion and nothing else.

helping the poor, providing health care for children, etc. sound very Christian and very democratic.

[jsw_81]

46. Not true

Many Christian denominations are pro-choice.

[sendero]

26. Seems...

... there must be some confusion about what a "fundamentalist Christian" is. Because the question is moot. No real fundamentalist would want to be a Democrat.

[leftistagitator]

29. If they are willing to tolerate other people

then they should be welcomed into the party. The main problem with that is fundamentalists usually follow interpretations of the Bible that preclude things like enviromentalism, the seperation of church and state, and getting along with people from other faiths. Not mention gay rights and abortion rights, I've never met a single fundamentalist who would budge on those 2 issues.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. Fundamentalists have been co-opted by the right wing neocons

and unless they reject this wholly they won't be welcome anywhere else.
When you find neocon orthodoxy being preached at fundie churches every Sunday, it's oxymoronic to expect acceptance in the democratic party.

Also unwelcome would be those christian fundamentalists, the Christian Nazi church.

[pacifictiger]

33. I cannot see how

ardent fundamentalist's long range vision can co-exist with the notion of anything but an ultimate theocracy, which is the antithises of our democratic party.
Now, a true follower of the teachings of Jesus is very different matter from the hellfireanddamnation fundamentalist beliefs gleaned from select verses and literalist interpretations of biblical prophecy.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. ABSOLUTELY

You can believe that ithings like abortion and gay marriage are wrong but not necesarilly want the government to legislate against them. And even so, your stances on other issues could outweigh your stances on social issues. Anybody who feels that the country is better off without shrub in the whitehouse is welcome into the democratic party as far as I'm concerned.

[BillZBubb]

35. Anyone who believes in the separation of Church and State

is welcome. Those who don't belong with their own kind--the Repuglicans.

As far as their personal religious beliefs, no real Democrat would care. Fundie, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic, Episcopalian, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Wiccan, whatever: we'll take any and all as long as they don't try to make their religious beliefs into government policy.

[Cleita]

37. I agree with you.

Anyone is welcome as long as they realize politics is not religion and vice versa. People should keep their religion in Church and in their homes. If they want to dress the part or pray in public, I have no objection as long as they don't expect anyone else to join them, but never should they attempt to get legislation passed that is solely religious in nature. Then I think they are in violation of the Constitution and that goes for Republicans too.

[Zero Gravitas]

36. OF course

so long as they believe in secular government. Those who want to impose "God's law" on everyone else are not.

[mopaul]

38. YES YES YES

one can be a fundamentalist christian without being a jerk. my father is a perfect example. a truer christian i've never met in my life, but my mother, bless her, is a total pain in the butt.

it's made me very wary of them, but 95% of them are really wonderful people. the bad ones make the most noise and trouble, and have been hijacked by the republican party into thinking that they are only welcome there.

i do feel that fundamentalist christians who are liberal in nature, already know of the polarization between democrats and themselves, and they understand that both sides have to meet each other halfway before they can even proceed.

i say all are welcome, but the republicans can't say that

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Great post Mo....and welcome back

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. Sure as long as they don't expect us to adopt a right wing agenda

and support the separation of church and state. Teach creationism at Sunday school....I want scientific data taught at public schools.

[arewethereyet]

41. party ? sure. DU ? not really

[IronLionZion]

42. Jimmy Carter is an Evangelical Christian

being a democrat and being a fundamentalist Christian are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who says they are is an idiot, an asshole, a Republican, or all of the above.

[jsw_81]

45. Carter strongly supports church/state separation

And he disagrees with the fundies on dozens of issues.

[Indiana Democrat]

43. They're not welcome around here.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. The poll and the posters in this thread seem to say otherwise.

[Pax_Rat]

48. way to tip your hand, Indiana

Nicely put. You have revealed yourself to be just another intolerant lib who talks about accepting others, but only as long as they share your opinions. So much for freedom of conscience!

Peace!