Nader could be on ballot as Green AND Reform AND independent

[cryofan]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ralph Nader has various hats to choose from in his latest bid for the presidency: as a candidate of the Reform Party, the Green Party, and as an independent.

Nader's independent, anti-corporate, populist campaign starts its uphill effort to get on the ballot in all 50 states this week in Texas. And there are signs that he may end up as the nominee of both the Reform Party and the Green Party, which are strange bedfellows ideologically.

Nader was clear when announcing his candidacy that he would be on ballots under different party names.

"Fifty states -- that's definitely what the goal is," Nader spokesman Kevin Zeese said.
...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/8141217.htm


Now, I REALLY like Kerry more and more every day. I think he is a far better candidate than we ever knew earlier in this campaign.

And I look forward to seeing him win in November. I think he will be a GREAT president.

But we need more choices in America. And any candidate who runs an anti-corporate, populist campaign really gets me excited. I am really looking forward to seeing both Kerry win, and Nader taking a large percent of the vote from Bush. Bush has only 35% core support. I would just LOVE to see him held to that in the election, and have Ralph pick up 5% in some states for the Reform and Green Party.

People may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one....

[cally]

1. Well, if the Green Party

nominates him then I will never vote Green. I am a voter who is likely to vote Green in most local elections and I fully support their platform. This election is too important for all of us.

Besides, I just don't like Nader. My dislike goes back 20 plus years and what I witnessed first hand of his disdain for women's issues and environmental issues. Plus, the way he treated his staff was wrong.

[icymist]

7. Nader has been quickly losing my respect.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Making large amounts of money while 'fighting for the common people' doesn't help Ralph!

[ant]

9. to be fair...

Making large amounts of money while 'fighting for the common people' doesn't help Ralph!

Ralph lives in a small studio, doesn't own a car, and always wears the same shitty clothes. He makes a lot of money, yes, and that money goes right back into the many organizations he's set up to fight against unfair trade and corporate abuse.

I could see a "selling out" argument against taking money from the very corporations you fight, but the counter there is working within the system to change it. I'm not an idealist. It's a practical, effective method for bringing change, and I won't fault Nader for doing it. Although, it's rather ironic to see those who would criticize Nader voters for demanding a perfect candidate demanding perfection themselves. And hell, last I checked Kerry ain't no poor boy.

(For the record, I do not like Kerry, though I am impressed with his campaign tactics so far. I will vote for him only if the election in my state is close. I voted for Nader in 2000 because I lived in NY and knew the vote was "safe." I actually have a Republican friend in TX who did the same thing. Anyway, I will make the same calculation again this year. I do think Nader speaks to issues that the Democrats tend to ignore, but my motivation is more about supporting third parties rather than any particular candidate.)

[icymist]

14. Check out this site and see how great 'ol Ralph is!

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

I won't be fooled by this man again!

[LeahMira]

18. How would you feel?

I won't be fooled by this man again!

If someone put up a website like that but directed at Dean or Clark or Kerry, you'd have a fit... because you know that facts presented out of context aren't valid facts.

If you really want to win this election, how about presenting a vision for America that can appeal to the majority of the voters... including the voters that now prefer Nader?

[ant]

19. like I said...

I'm not an idealist. I never claimed Nader was a saint, and if you're looking for one I don't see how you're going to be able to vote for anyone at all. So Nader won't "fool" you again - who's going to fool you this time?

We could go back and forth posting shitty information about each candidate - people trying to tear down Nader in support of Kerry is just so absurd I can't believe it's actaully happening - but what's the point? The argument that people need to be practical and vote AGAINST Bush by voting for Kerry - an argument I agree with and think the idealist Nader types need to pay close attention to - does not require attacking Nader's character, which quite frankly I think is pretty good, relatively speaking. In fact, trying to advance this argument by attacking Nader only puts his supporters on the defensive and freezes the debate at a "your candidate sucks harder than mine" level, which doesn't get us anywhere at all.

Nader is a good man who has done a lot of good for this country, and those who support him have every right and reason to. However, those who argue that we should vote for Kerry simply to defeat Bush are right and reasonable, too.

Our curse as progressives has always been our ability to recognize complexity and shades of grey. Let's not deal with that complexity by merely tearing people down. Both sides have legitimate points here, and we should acknowledge that rather than sacrifice our own intellectual integrity for the sake of "winning" some debate on an online board.

[Frances]

2. Stop dreaming--look at NH and FL in 2000

[Frances]

3. I'm sure the Repubs

will do everything they can to get Nader on the ballot in every state. They'll also contribute some of their millions of dollars.

[adadem]

5. and happliy

sign his ballot petitions.

[nodictators]

10. Hell, maybe he'll have Grover Norquist as his VP running-mate

Or, maybe he'll pick Phyllis Schlafly for the VP slot. He kind of has a thing for her, you know.

and maybe he'll merge those 3 parties into one: the Soylent Green Party.

[Paradise]

13. i was steaming mad about the 'subject line' of the om,

my face contorted, head hot, throat tight, and then you made me laugh. thank you :pals:

[TrueAmerican]

4. Nader is full of it

He is all about himself. We are working to elect a Democrat, not Ralph "Phoney" Nader. Please don't post your Nader crap here. Take it to your own financed site. I didn't donate to DU, so you can endorse Ralph Nader using part of my money.

[Frances]

6. I stopped donating to PIRG

after 2000. I explained to PIRG that I didn't want Nader to think I approved of his running for president.

[Paradise]

15. i'll be donating to du,

in honor of your reply to om :think:

[TrueAmerican]

16. I feel I am on a ship of fools

Isn't their a song like that?

[Paradise]

17. Just Contributed thanks to you...

Ship of Fools - Doors

The human race was dyin' out
No one left to scream and shout
People walking on the moon
Smog will get you pretty soon

Everyone was hanging out
Hanging up and hanging down
Hanging in and holding fast
Hope our little world will last

Yeah, along came Mr. Goodtrips
Looking for a new a ship
Come on, people better climb on board
Come on, baby, now we're going home
Ship of fools, ship of fools

The human race was dyin' out
No one left to scream and shout
People walking on the moon
Smog will get you pretty soon
Ship of fools, ship of fools
Ship of fools, ship of fools
Ship of fools, ship of fools

[carpetbagger]

8. Why would we want Nader to get 5%?

All that will do is give the guy some funds with which to continue to make the ridiculous assertion taht there's no substantive difference between the two parties.

The only thing that Nader's said more ridiculous than that is his assertion that he'll take votes from Bush. There's a reason why the GOP funds the Green Party. It's because it takes the votes of democrats and liberal independents who would otherwise vote democratic.

[LeahMira]

20. If you believe...

Why would we want Nader to get 5%?

If you believe that Kerry can't beat Bush by more than 5%, then I wonder why you are so pessimistic.

All that will do is give the guy some funds with which to continue to make the ridiculous assertion taht there's no substantive difference between the two parties.

Then it becomes incumbent upon the Democratic candidate to point out that substantive difference.

I hear the commentators claim that Kerry has the most liberal voting record of anyone in the Senate... as if that were something to worry about. I happen to think that's great.

If Democrats are going to try to be all things to all people, they are going to wind up losing.

I asked someone who should know the other day how big the population of fundamentalist really out there right wingers really is, and his response was that they are only around 10% of the population.

That means that most of the people who support Bush right now can be persuaded with a better idea.

[Paradise]

11. read your subject line, and

in my short time here at du, it was the first time i cursed out loud.:grr: this is NOT funny!
(solely referring to what i see as the ramifications of your subject line, not you nor your message)

[K-W]

12. Stop Fooling yourself.

You cannot want Kerry to win and want Nader to get alot of votes. The two are contradictory votes. Conservatives arent going to vote for Nader.

Even if Nader was a good progressive leader, which he isnt. And even if he ran an honest campaign, which he doesn't. Suporting him in this election would be a foolish thing to do.

The progressive community needs leaders who will focus on grass roots organization, local politics, and working with and in the democratic party. It does not need egomaniacs running for president, further splitting liberals, and throwing sticks in an electoral system that doesnt handle more than 2 parties well.

With Nader in all 50 states you still only have 2 choices. Either Bush or Kerry will win, 100% garunteed, so a vote for nader is a vote for a Bush presidency. I will embrace REAL choice when we can create one, I will not use a fake choice so that I can niavely feign ideological purity.