Should the Dems try for Florida?

[cally]

I don't think so. I think we can't beat the shenanigans the Jebbie will pull. I think we can win the state if elections were fair, but I don't think we should spend any money in Florida.

[gristy]

1. The Dems should and they will.

No state will be conceded. And Florida is very much in play.

[pmbryant]

2. Florida is winnable. Why should we concede?

Give up in the face of underhanded tactics? That's exactly what the GOP is hoping for. Then they won't even have to do anything.

If they want Florida, make them steal it. We'll win anyway, and if they try to pull anything off, we can nail them for it afterwards.

--Peter

[DieboldMustDie]

8. They pulled something off the last time...

and we haven't nailed them yet. :mad:

[pmbryant]

20. All the more reason not to let the GOP get away with it again

If all they have to do is steal an election once, and then we give up, they're going to be encouraged to do it all over the place.

--Peter

[onecitizen]

3. Of course we can/will...........

the Dems are getting their act together down there. As far as Jebbie pulling illegal stuff again, count on it. BUT folks down there are aware of all this. He won't get away with it again.

[cally]

4. We should give it up because Kerry has no money

now. I don't want it wasted in Jebbies state. Let's concentrate on the other states and give up Florida. Gore would have won if he hadn't focused his VP pick and money on Florida.

In a perfect world, we can win Florida. Kerry has no money so he needs to focus his resources. I think Jebbie will pull his voter shenanigans again. Stopping voters from voting, purging the voter rolls, electronic voters. Let him do it and focus on states that have fair elections.

[TruthIsAll]

7. Focus on states that have fair elections? Are you serious?

California has fair elections. Now they have Diebold.
Ohio has fair elections. Now they have Diebold.

So does Maryland. And many other states are going touch-screen.

By your logic we should just give up, I guess.

Vigilance. Awareness. The Holt bill passed. Observers in droves. That's what we need.

We don't need capitulation.

[cally]

11. All that's true but other states don't have *'s

brother as Governor. What happened in 2000 cannot be ignored. I do think we should just give it up in this state and focus on others. If Kerry raises enough money, then yes try for Florida. At this point, he has no money so he shouldn't play where they control the rules

[pmbryant]

18. What happened to the $10M in 10 days he just raised?

And what about all the money that organizations like MoveOn.org have? Should that money not be spent in Florida?

I think giving up a huge, winnable state like Florida because of suspicions that the GOP won't play fair is the equivalent of fighting with one hand tied behind our back.

And, secondly, it's letting the GOP's unfair tactics win without even waging a fight. So it is a bad decision both strategically and ethically.

--Peter

[SharonAnn]

24. If we don't spend money in Florida, neither will Bush.

If we don't contest a state, then they can put more resources into the states we contest.

Sorry, but the best thing to do is to keep them busy everywhere, all the time. Otherwise they'll move to contested areas and through all their money and people into those areas.

[rock]

5. I believe we have an easy win in Florida

in terms of who the voters want. Turning the voters desire into an actual ballot count remains problematical. However, we should play it for its political value. That is, keep track and publicize all the shenanigans that the repugs are sure to try.

[OneBlueSky]

10. I agree . . . Florida should be easily winnable . . .

except that, with electronic voting, they can make the results come out any way they want . . . and not get caught . . . and if they can, you can bet your boots they will . . . very depressing, when you think about it . . .

[ThomWV]

6. WTF???????

What in hell are you talking about? Do you not think that Democrats will be on the ballot in Florida? Do you not think that good capable men and women from the Democratic Party will not be running in Florida? Do you think that good loyal patriotic Democrats will not be out voting in the election of 2004 in the state of Florida?

This is all nonsense. We don't give up on or ceed any state. Not even Texas, let alone Florida.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. Agreed, not even TX.

I first started out thinking TX will go 20% in favor of shrubco like last time (something like this.) Didn't really discourage me in the least for some reason. Now I still expect it to go at least 10% for them in all likelihood but I don't even rule out that we will win here (just not very likely, this election would be the ultimate blowout if that happened). Let's GO!

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Texas is the GOP's California...

It's not physically possible to win there, just not likely. The good thing about it is that we can make them spend more money there.

[Crachet2004]

12. We will fight them in Florida, we will fight them in Texas...

'We will never surrendeer!'-To paraphrase and butcher Churchill. Make an effort...the more effort, the harder they have to try to steal it. The harder they try, the more chances they take, and more likely they are to get caught.

Obviously, decisions have to be made which states to emphasize in our effort...but it would be nice to think we will have the funds for a full court press.

But Fla.? We need to make a statement down there, for the people who were disenfranchised, or people will think we are gutless.

I would'nt take a VP from there, though...too many eggs in one basket.

Can't afford that again.

[Redneck Socialist]

13. Kerry leads Bush

At least as of last week.

http://www.stpetetimes.com/2004/03/07/State/Another_presidential_.shtml

"Democrat John Kerry leads President Bush by 6 percentage points in the Sunshine State..."

<snip>

"The poll was conducted by the Washington polling firms of Schroth & Associates, whose political clients are Democrats, and the Polling Company, whose political clients are Republicans. The statewide phone survey of 800 registered Florida voters has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points."

I think Florida is very much in play and Kerry needs to raise enough money to remain in the game there. Bush is counting on those 27 electoral votes. Without Florida bushco. is going to have a very hard time hanging on to the white house.

It is all going to come down to how well Kerry does fund raising.

Dirty tricks and crappy campaigning are other issues entirely.

[Ravy]

14. Yes. There is a senate seat in play too.

And the press/Democratic poll workers will be particularly watching this one.

Florida Democratic voters were taken by surprise last time. Now they will go to the polls expecting and exposing all of the little Jebbie tricks.

If Democrats can get the population down here to understand what Greenspan is suggesting re. SS benefits or tax cuts for the wealthy.. it won't be close.

[DinahMoeHum]

15. Absolutely!! A big fat FTS to this "unwinnable" shtick !!

* is vulnerable. He's rotten fruit on the tree.

He's going down.


:kick:

[cally]

16. It's all about money

Kerry has little and needs to target it. If he tries for states that are not winnable, then he loses. He needs to target his resources. Are Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Georgia and maybe Tennesse winnable? Yes, they are. Is it worth the money to win them? I don't think so. I think we need to focus on other states. Again, Kerry has no money. We need to focus.

[Leilani]

17. If the problem is money, then raise it!

We cannot write off Florida! And Kerry will not!

We need to fight in every state where we have a chance. Al Gore wrote off certain states last time, & look what happened.

[cally]

22. I'm trying

I'm raising some, but I can't raise what * raised. None of us can so we need to target our states

[seabeyond]

19. yyyyaaaaaaaa

for florida to heal and i wnat to win big and i want it all

[BillZBubb]

21. We probably can't win Florida

There are just too many ways Jebthro can steal it.

But, I think Kerry needs to put some money and time there. If he justs keeps it close, Shrub will have to spend 4 or 5 times the money and effort there, because he needs Florida desperately--more so than Kerry.

Make Bush* pour resources into "holding" Florida.

[ithacan]

25. the dems WON Florida by tens of thousands of votes

in 2000

Apart from the butterfly ballots, in Jacksonville there were the intentionally misleading multipage ballot instructions

there was the choicepoint purge of black voters

and numerous other things that prevented literally tens of thousands of democratic votes from being counted.

We HAVE Florida, it's a matter of making sure all the votes get counted.