An idea that scares me

[EstimatedProphet]

After posting here for a couple months, and following posts for a lot longer, I have the feeling that I know in general how topics are treated at DU. I've been seeing a meme for a while now that I would dearly love to believe is true, but may be based on assumptions that are not true. It's kind of like this:
November will be a victory for us, because the American people are waking up. Once they wake up, they are enraged at how things have actually been going for the last 3 years, as opposed to what they have been told. Once they have the truth, there is no way Americans would ever vote for Bush again.
Here's the problem I have with this argument-people can wake up perhaps in time for the election, or they can be kept hypnotized by the Mighty Wurlitzer until past November. We can try to wake them up, and in some cases we are successful, but what if they aren't asleep after all?
See, here's the thing: I remember before the invasion I was listening to a radio station in Vegas that had the topic of "peaceniks, prove you're right" or some such (they did actually use the word peaceniks, and wondered why people were insulted), and the vast majority of people calling in were not only in favor of war in Iraq for the stated reasons, they would support it for ANY reason. It was Freeper central. People were saying God Bless Bush, because he's doing things that he wants to do regardless of what the people want. These people were actually supporting him not listening to the publics opinions! They actually believed that the President should ORDER citizens, not represent them!
So, when people talk about how Freepers are fascists, frankly I agree. What is that if not fascism? How can it possibly be patriotic to believe that American citizens shouldn't have opinions unless they are acceptable to the government? We think that the government's power should come from a popular mandate; they think that the government's power should override a popular mandate.
Now, the reason this attitude scares me is: how do we know that people like this are in the minority? How do we know that the average person is "asleep", and not just a psychotic bully? What if the reason Bush's ratings don't fall anymore is because the American public thinks he is indeed doing a good job, knowing full well what he is doing, because their definition of "good job" is now about bullying the world and starting needless wars for enjoyment of citizens who get off on violence?
There are so many media outlets for the Freeper viewpoint out there. Maybe part of why there are so many is because there's a hell of a lot of people that WANT them. Not just business, but the average citizen-maybe they think that the US should dominate the world, and anyone who resists should be killed for Jesus.
I sincerely hope I am way off base, and the average citizen isn't a Freeper. I look at how things go, and I don't see how it is that we as a country could support this, and the fact that we do win over people is a good sign too. But I would be lying if I said I thought Freeper-Americans weren't an issue because they are clearly a fringe group. I can't say they are anymore. And if they're not, God help us all.

[Cleita]

1. Yes, God help us.

The propaganda machine and the religious right have turned many a mushy mind to freeper hate. I am finding attitudes from freepers jeepers, we are fighting for American freedom and how can you criticize our President, to a more common one, which is just plain old apathy. Like we'll just go along with what everyone else is doing because they are probably right and I don't want to think about it that much.

[PaDUer]

2. mobsters..n/t

[drthais]

4. stay cool

my Republican sister is now in our camp
and thats a very big deal
you can bring them in
one at a time
but this requires temperence

[gulfcoastliberal]

3. I Agree, we Do Live in a Nation of Idiots

The repugs keep them distracted with decoy issues like the drug war, gay marriage, and abortion. The funders of evil (Scaife, Coors, Olin, etc.) have developed entrenched foundations (aka "Think Tank" institutions) and media outlets to keep repugs well financed, shape their agenda, and spearhead the opposition of dems. Now we are finally getting some sugar daddies of our own (Soros, Peter Lewis, etc) who are setting up our own liberal "think tanks" and media outlets to try to start turning the tide of popular opinion.

As far as people "waking up", well there are several repug scandals that I won't bother to list that are finally coming to fruition, which may cause major disasters the admin won't be able to control or keep under wraps. I hope this helps.

Edited for grammar/spelling

[uhhuh]

5. Sometimes I fear you're right

But then I think of how hard the wingers try to justify what they do, and how many excuses chimp supporters have to make to justify their opinions, and I think that this isn't the case.

If the majority really felt that way, I don't think it would require the amout of effort being poured into the spin. I think the majority of people really want to feel honorable, and believe that we are a good society, and need to be fed piles and piles of bullshit to maintain the illusion that we are doing the right thing.

I don't think tons of people would have taken to the streets for protests that were not given widespread media exposure before they happened. I think most people think they are kind and good. I think the administration knew this too, and that's why they had to spend so much time and effort on the run up to the Iraqi occupation.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

6. I never beleived in the "sheeple" rap.

How do we know that the average person is "asleep", and not just a psychotic bully? What if the reason Bush's ratings don't fall anymore is because the American public thinks he is indeed doing a good job, knowing full well what he is doing, because their definition of "good job" is now about bullying the world and starting needless wars for enjoyment of citizens who get off on violence?

I tend t think they are not asleep at all, but are into this HOO-RAH jones that Bush is pushing...the American Sparta, or American Prussia.....except I wouldnt dignify this redneck schadenfreude/bully boy/thug mentality be comparing it to Sparta or Prussia.

[jorno67]

7. Think about this...

The real issue is that more and more people are willing to give away their freedoms for a $600 tax break. Throw in a little "liberals hate America" BS, and add some "Democrats will neglect the war on terrorism", and you have just bought yourself 80% of the NASCAR dads. They package the whole thing as being patriotic, but in truth it just makes them a $600 a year whore.

[countmyvote4real]

8. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I live in NYC and am pretty insolated from the Freeper opinion. All my friends and most of my colleagues at work are pretty open discussing our outrage with the * administration. However, everyone in my immediate family lives in Georgia and they are total Fundies for *. We don’t communicate anymore. No email. No phone calls. I didn’t even go home for Christmas this year. Aside from the financial expense of going into further debt, I just didn’t want to be around them and everybody that thinks like them. I know I’m digressing, but I’m trying to provide some background.

In the past, I’ve tried to respond to the insipid emails that my parents received and then forwarded on to me. A year ago my parents admonished me for protesting the war. They said that I wasn’t supporting the troops and that I was giving comfort to the enemy. I said that I was supporting the troops. I was protesting in a vain attempt to keep them alive for a real threat. The real enemy of the United States is * as far as I’m concerned. They changed the subject to my nieces and nephew.

In January, I asked my father what he thought of Wesley Clark. My father is retired military and if ever there was candidate tailor made for him since Eisenhower, it was Clark. His response was that he might be a good man, but he made an awful lot of mistakes. I could have pressed him to tell me the mistakes, but I knew from experience and the phrasing, he would only recite what he saw on Faux news.

Okay, these are “stupid old people.” They’re my parents. I can say that without disrespecting the legions of gray panthers that man my voting precinct and polling places everywhere. God bless them. On the other hand my younger brother and sister are both public school teachers with Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. That is scary.

We grew up in the same household. As the oldest, I guess I moved around and was exposed to more than my siblings. I also chose to live above the Mason-Dixon line and have worked in the “media” for the last 20 years of my life. I’m not perfect either, but there is no way to reason with them or me on our politics. I guess we represent the opposed bases. We can’t be swayed. Hell, we can’t even stand to be in the same room or talk to one another.

Once again, it’s up to the swing voters… the ones that can’t make up their minds on the issues until the last minute. The ones that vote on sound bytes or hair style or Faux told me to. The ones that find the debates so boring, yet are compelled enough to show up and vote for somebody anyway.

America is not “old Europe” or Spain. We are the fucking freak show. (And I will be on the streets on March 20th to say it again.)

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[OneBlueSky]

9. as long as BushCo controls the voting apparatus . . .

it won't really matter a whole lot what the people think . . . they'll simply have the vote come out the way they want it in a selected precincts in key states, just enough to insure a Bush victory . . . with no way to audit the results, there's no way they can be caught . . . they've done it before, and you best believe they'll do it again to retain the presidency . . . will the Republican Congress step in and mandate an auditable paper trail in time for the November election? . . . dream on . . . Bush is confident because there's no way he can lose . . .

it's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes . . .