why does the right now use the term "homicide bombers"

[neoteric lefty]

instead of suicide bombers. Doesn't the term "bombers" or "bombings" already imply the seeking of death and destruction. These people aren't putting a backpack of explosives on a bus and getting the hell out of there. They are blowing themselves up along with everyone else. The term "suicide bomber" actually describes the type of bombing it is whereas it seems redundant to call a "bomber" a "homicide bomber". It seems like they are trying to push an agenda by controlling language. Much like how anti-abortionists are now "pro-lifers". It puts a spin on the way we speak and thereby puts a spin on they we think. I am not saying that the left does not do this, they do. But, the right seem to be much more effective at it.

[AP]

1. Because 'suicide' evokes sympathy and pitty. 'Homicide' doesn't.

[neoteric lefty]

4. not to me

'Suicide' doesn't really invoke sympathy to me. I still think it is completely wrong what they are doing but the fact that they are killing themselves for a belief signifies that there are underlying reasons for their actions that must be understood before peace can be achieved.

[AP]

6. Disturbed teenagers kill themselves. Homicide is a deliberate act of a

cruel mind.

[neoteric lefty]

7. im am a little unclear of your reply

but I meant 'suicide' not in the form of a person taking his/her life by themselves (sadly, like with american teenagers) but with the people that take their own life for a cause. Again, I may have misunderstood your reply.

[AP]

17. I'm talking about the images evoked by the words. Even in the context

of terrorist acts, the word suicide evokes cerain other feelings.

That's why Fox doesn't use the word.

[kiahzero]

2. They are pushing an agenda

"Suicide" emphasizes how desperate people are, when blowing yourself up to kill others seems like a good idea. It emphasizes the human cost.

RWers want to cast them as demons, so that we don't seek to understand the root cause of terrorism, why people would be so desperate to commit atrocities like this.

[Iverson]

26. there you go

It follows that by removing the term "suicide" and replacing it with the term "homicide," the human cost is entirely with the victims of the bombing (even though one need not actually kill anyone else in order to be a suicide bomber). It is standard fare in propaganda to dehumanize the opposition. Appropriating the language that way is just a part of the strategy.

Note also the coverage. Who gets killed on what side, and how is this presented in the media? Especially in a two-party dispute, the innocents on one side will be treated much more sympathetically than on the other side, with more extensive detail and emotional terms. Herman and Chomsky discuss this in terms of worthy vs. unworthy victims.

[elperromagico]

3. They're changing the language.

A lie is now a "technically correct statement,"

Weapons of mass destruction are now "Weapons-related programs,"

A job creation of 1,000 a month is now a "job recovery,"

and so on.

[maggrwaggr]

5. it's like the secret handshake, or the KKK fingers in the belt thing

so the fascists can identify each other

[libertad]

38. what is the kkk finger-belt thing you referred to? -just curious.

n/t

[SilasSoule]

8. It all started with Ari Fliesher about 18 months ago.

After a sucice bominng in Israel. Pompous ass Ari, announced that the adminstrations will not be referring to the perpetrators as suicide bombers but rather "homocide bombers". It just an attempt to change the language for purely propoganda purposes.

"Homicide Bomber" is a redundant term - If you are a "bomber", your goal is to commit homicide. This is true of palestinian terrorists or B-17 flight crews over Dresden. By removing the suicide from the equation is to omit the method used to perorm the dastardly deed and the result is a term that is less precise.

[Kool Kitty]

13. Yes, I remember that bit with Ari.

The only ones to pick up on the phrase were the FOX newsies. And they are the only ones still using it.

[ldf]

9. it's like partial birth abortion

it is a redefinition, therefore reframing, of the debate.

they are masters at it.

pure propaganda.

[arewethereyet]

10. seems more appropriate to me

their purpose isn't suicide after all

[neoteric lefty]

11. of course

part of their purpose is suicide. Why the heck do the strap the bombs around their chest instead of putting them in a duffel bag? Of course, their other goal is to kill as many of their perceived enemies (woman and children included, sadly) as possible. 'Homicide bomber' doesn't distinguish between someone who places a bomb on a road and leaves versus a person who blows themselves up in a bus. To me, this is more of an discussion of the linguistic meaning and the purpose for the changing the term, not so much about the actual acts themselves.

[arewethereyet]

15. they strap the bombs to themselves to have flexibility in their use

if trouble is spotted you can flip the switch at any time.

annonomous duffle bags can be spotted, defused and traced.

the primary goal is homocide, everything else is secondary to that.

[neoteric lefty]

18. so you believe

that a suicide bomber is allowing his own death as a mere tactic for desruction? I am just trying to understand your POV. I think you must believe in something pretty heavily to forgo the natural instinct of self-preservation and commit to assured death. I really don't feel it is only a way to kill more people. That is probably a big reason but I feel it goes much deeper than just a military tactic.

[arewethereyet]

19. yes

death is a reward, its martyrdom. is ones eternal soul a powerful influence ? I'd say so.

there were reports in Israeli bombings where the original targets were unattainable and the muslim simply found the most populated target they could find and did it there insted.

and, of course, the money is good too. especially for palestinians.

[libertad]

37. there pupose is both homocide and suicide, the suicide is the distinction

since most bombers probably intend homocide.

[jpgray]

12. Semantic silliness. (nt)

[neoteric lefty]

14. I don't think it is silly

to keep your eye on how language is used in our culture. Language is the gateway to thought. We have to be careful not to use language as a tool for propaganda (no matter which side of the issue you are on).

on edit:
it may seem trivial to talk about how some people use one word over another to describe someone. But remember, someone changed the term for a reason and we have to understand why that change was made.

[jpgray]

22. You misunderstood me, I meant the change is silly

'Homicide bombers' is silly because it is a devolution in terms--it inherently explains less than 'suicide bombers' in order to fill a particular political need. 'Suicide bomber' describes one who commits suicide to destroy something. Both parts are there. 'Homicide bomber' doesn't define the subject as well--it could apply to James Bond setting C4 in some SPECTOR facility.

The term 'suicide bomber' doesn't minimize the victim, and it doesn't elevate the bomber. It's simply a factual description of what the bomber has done.

[ButterflyBlood]

16. it's incredibly stupid

although i don't think anyone besides FAUX says it anymore.

it should be obvious that "suicide bomber" is not meant to glorify the bomber (not like suicide is looked upon in this country anyway) but to differentiate them from bombers who don't blow themselves up as well. Timothy McVeigh was a homicide bomber. A suicide bomber in the strictest definition would be someone who blows only themselves up, and terrorists are suicide/homicide bombers, but since a pure suicide bombing almost never happens, it's obvious what they're referring to.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. neoteric, the things you are saying

relate to why Bill Maher, trying to make a point, made the comments about the "suicide bombers" of 9/11 being actually brave (to sacrifice their lives in a cause) and not cowardly, to which he got the Ari Fleischer response about how Americans should "watch what they say, watch what they do." Let's please vote these fascists out please.

[Chelzek]

21. Ari started it in a press conference

ALONG time ago... Pre-Iraq invasion I believe.

[Rex]

23. Because some might ask why people are willing to blow themselves up

if the word suicide is used. Homicide, on the other hand, leaves little doubt in ones mind that it was an act of murder that requires no deeper meaning (like a random act of violence).

[PurityOfEssence]

24. Consistency; a further effort in their quest to be wrong about everything

They're on quite a streak, don't you think?

[Crunchy Frog]

25. They've been using that term for years

on Faux News. It is totally stupid because it is redundant. If you are bombing something, usually the general intent is to commit homicide. Suicide bomber is a term used specifically to describe someone who deliberately blows him or herself up in the process of bombing with intent to commit homicide. Homicide is therefore implied without actually being stated. Maybe they are just too stupid to figure out something that is implied, and need to have it spelled out in black and white to understand it?

I think the RW just considers giving any recognition of the distinction to be somehow politically incorrect. Who can figure out why their minds work the way they do or why they would regard the term "suicide bomber" as politically incorrect.:shrug:

I've given up on trying to figure them out. I just want to oppose them any way I can.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. My standard response is

"Wow, the bomber SURVIVED? Was he Kryptonian or something?"

[TheWebHead]

28. Bush admin says, right wingers do...

Master of puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master

[leesa]

29. We've got bigger homicide bombers than they do!

Funny how these self-righteous pieces of shit have no problem with us 'homocide bombing' tens of thousands of innocent people. No problem there!

[qb]

30. It's like using "Democrat" incorrectly as an adjective

to make it sound more sinister. The neocons are inventing their own lexicon - very Orwellian. Control the language, and you control the people.

I heard the term "homicide bomber" a few times outside of Fox initially, but the other networks eventually realized how silly they sounded.

Unfortunately, you still hear talking heads using the "Democrat" instead of "Democratic" ploy here and there - even on NPR.

[LincolnMcGrath]

31. Check this out

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml

[Walt Starr]

32. It's Newspeak

We need Newspeak in order to be able to focus during the two minute hate fests daily.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia!

[thingfish]

33. To diminish their self-sacrifice.

x

[Walt Starr]

34. Does that mean brave soldiers who are willing to give their lives in

missions where the odds are stacked against them returning alive will be conducting "Homicide Missions"?

[thingfish]

39. That's an interesting - and defensible - way of looking at it.

Yes.

[HootieMcBoob]

35. The right's version of political correctness

It doesn't describe the act it's just a politically correct way of describing the act.

[enki23]

36. here's what you need to ask anyone who says this:

how about we call them 'suicide homicide bombers?' you know, as opposed to suicide non-homicide bombers. wouldn't want to confuse the two.