The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train

[Q]

- This is much more than a negative statement. It's a warning of impending disaster.

- Bush* has but one card left to play: The Pentagon card. But as it turns out...it's the ace of spades and it's the only card they've ever needed or wanted.

- Now that the Bushies have successfully established nationalism to keep the teeming masses under control...the next step is to create a nuclear military to intimidate and blackmail the rest of the world into compliance with their agenda.

- Worse...the Bushies are using their self - declared war against 'terrorism' to hide their complicity and cooperation WITH the terrorists.

- Everything and anything to do with 9-11 has been classified and kept secret from the very representatives that were 'hired' to maintain checks and balances over the executive branch of government.

- The Bush government has literally become unaccountable to the people or their representatives. Knowing they hold no mandate from the majority...they forge ahead with misguided policy decisions that bring us ever closer to death and destruction on an unimaginable scale. Bush's* bad policies are breeding terrorists like rabbits in an environment of hate and suspicion.

- Bush* cannot and will not be 'voted' out of office. I'd be willing to bet that the Bushies and the vast organization behind them will find a way to stay in office after 2004. The American people are programmed to believe that it's a conspiracy theory if lightning strikes twice in the same place. That's how the Bushies will once again get away with 'stealing' the next election. Forewarned is forearmed.

- It's a done deal. And there's nothing YOU can do about it because you think 'conspiracy theories' are silly.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Q]

22. It's the weakest type of argument to suggest that someone needs 'prozac'..

...in order to see your reality.

- But don't you grow kind of weary trying to explain away everything that has happened since before 2000? Do you think it was just a fluke that the dumbest jackass in America became the president* of the United States?

- Look at the chain of events and tell me you don't see a pattern of fraud, deception and secrecy. We must do more than depend on a broken election system to get rid of the scourge in our WH. We must investigate, hold hearings and prosecute wrongdoing. Responsibility. Accountability. Honesty. Integrity. Every public servant must be held accountable or none will take responsibility for their bad acts in our name.

[sandnsea]

31. Ah yes, keep Americans happy with prozac

I'm not saying anything about anybody who needs medication, I know it is real.

However...

I read an article that some believed the stock market crash was so bad because so many Americans are on anti-depressants. The warnings were out there but people didn't pay attention because anti-depressants medicate the particular anxieties and fears that would have been there without the medications.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, but maybe something to think about.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

39. That is an interesting take

I wonder if people in the investor class tend to be more on meds.

[Must_B_Free]

2. They are already announcing the next attack,

that way we can't hold it against them, see, they warned us.

All the signs are there: another 1 month vacation, warnings, dropping polls, need for political smokescreen.

[AngryYoungMan]

4. Okay, but...

Are you so sure that another attack will be good for Bush?

It will reveal how badly the alleged "war on terror" is going.

It will show how global anti-American sentiment has grown.

It will expose the lie that wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have any effect on terrorism.

It will re-focus scrutiny on the 28 pages, and on the Saudis.

It will be another opportunity for Bush to behave like an idiot coward, like last time.

I hasten to add that it's the LAST thing I want to have happen. (Another attack.) I'm just not sure it would play into their hands the way you're implying.

[Resistance Is Futile]

40. War and terror plays into the incumbants' hands

Gathering behind the national 'leader' in a time of crisis is a deeply ingrained component of the American psyche. Any further attacks or 'preemptive wars' will cement the Junta's hold among the drooling masses.

A key fact that many of you seem to be missing is that the droolingmasses support the Junta not because they are ignorant of its policies but rather because they like black-and-white, authoritarian government. Convincing the drooling masses to vote against the Junta (even if that would make any difference) is far more than a matter of simply getting the word out but rather a matter of changing the drooling masses' minds to the point that they actually grow up and accept that the world is not a black-and-white place. This is an impossible task in the time available.

[buff2]

3. I agree with you 100%

These facist nazis will do anything to stay in power. I don't care how many more votes the dems get,it doesn't matter because of the electoral....and the rigged "new" repuke manufactured touch voting machines with NO paper trail. They've got their ducks all in a row and if anyone believes otherwise is in for a huge surprise next Nov. This is the worst mess I've ever seen in my lifetime.I hate to think my last remaining years on earth will be spent under repukeliKKKan reign and know that OUR views and beliefs will never matter anymore. I hate those people. And I hate them for making me hate. I've never been this bitter before and I don't like it. Bastards.

[wellstone_democrat]

5. I could not have said it better or differently

at various moments. This paragraph is my deepest fear and the source of my resentment. That I am this hopeless and bitter at moments is what I hold against this cabal most angrily.

I'd like to give up fighting but I can't. They make steal election 2004 but they *will* have to steal it. I'm among those who will not let them just have it.

[buff2]

8. I care about this country

enough to take it to the streets. But I can't do it myself. If it happens,I will be there and I will do MY duty to fight for this country and fight for our children's and grandchildren's future. I miss the days when these freaks were not in power. It was so much more pleasant.....and prosperous. Then you have the free republic freaks who are the most insane group of people on the planet doing the devil's work. (Bu$h is the devil) IMHO.

[AlinPA]

34. Correction: Dirty bastards.

And they totally control broadcast media. Dirty bastards.

[JackSwift]

6. I don't recall FDR taking vacations in WWII

but I wasn't born yet. Can anyone fill us in? Or Lincoln during the Civil War.

[knight_of_the_star]

7. We can still win

By giving up now we will be doing what they want us to. We have to fight on, no matter how bleak things may be. If another attack happens, we can make this one blow up in Bush's face like badly mixed gunpowder. We just have to be bold and aggressive. Giving in to defeat will just ensure that we will fail, and that is NOT an option. The situation looked bleak, but the world has seen darker times. In December of 1941 it looked like the world was going to end and Nazism was going to spread its dark cloak over the entire world. The gates of Moscow were in sight. Britain was barely holding out. Rommel was pushing hard towards Cairo. The US Pacific Fleet was in ruins. The Phillipines and Singapore were crushed and Australia was coming under air attack by Japanese bombers. Any sane military commander at the time would have said, "We are doomed. Surrender is our only option." Then came El-Alamein, Stalingrad, Coral Sea, Torch, Midway, Kursk, the surrender of Italy, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, and the turning of the tide. What looked impossible was being planned. Allied armies were amassing in the UK to prepare to liberate France. The Nazi war machine in Russia was crushed and the siege of Leningrad was lifted. Japan's fleet was forced back across the sea and the Phillipines were re-taken.

The men and women of the free world at that time won because they refused to accept defeat and believe that victory was possible. IF we give in now then they will be rolling over in their graves in disgust that we have so horribly wasted and dishonoured the sacrifice that they made. 49,421,000 made the ultimate sacrifice fighting for the allied cause. Are you willing to go to them and say that we failed where they succeeded because we gave up without a fight?

[jfkennedy]

9. A good side it it all

I wish you would see the good side to this tragedy. The eventual fall of our democracy we are now witnesses to started years ago way before you or I were ever born.

It was planned by the Republican Party. When the military industrial complex was created with things such as the A Bomb, that took warfare into the field of psychology rather then actual day to day weapons thus a psychology of fear was a new weapon. For example I have a bigger A Bomb then you.

Carpet bombing was originally outlawed but the US did it in Vietnam, my guess it was ordered by Nixon the Republican, so the seeds of hate that have led the world to hate us which such a passion were planted in CIA labs years ago.

This military industrial complex became more important then even the people that it was supposed to be for. Such as this is why we have a country run by cogs in the machine of the beast.Bush and his administration, that don't even check the facts of what they read.

The Taliban were manufactured by the CIA. But it's to late to do anything about it because the ship has been sinking for the last 30 years. America has been sold out and left to die in the wind.

People such as myself attempted to prevent our democracy from being taken over by the war makers but people were to busy making money on the stock market which in the end turned out to be profits from a rigged market. See Enron.

[SweetZombieJesus]

10. So let's all give up, eh?

Good call. I'll just stop giving money to Dean and put it towards a ticket to Canada, since we're playing the defeatist card here and going all Chicken Little.

Q, if things are so hopeless, give up. Just stop bringing everyone else who's committed to getting Bush out down with you. Or go start a revolution, just FUCKING DO SOMETHING INSTEAD OF WHINE.

[Q]

14. Read for comprehension....

...I've never said anything about 'giving up'. That's your narrow interpretation of the 'message'. But some of you act as if you're waiting for a miracle to come and save Democracy for you. That's not going to happen.

- It's people like you who refuse to recognize that the America we grew up in no longer exists. Our justice and election system is broken and can no longer guarantee equal justice or free and fair elections.

- You seem to be saying that KNOWING this and warning people about it is 'whining' and bringing you down. Well...tough shit. It's this very type of 'nothing to see here' attitude that brought us this screwed up and very out of control government.

- Nothing is 'hopeless'. That's why we need to fight...not be lulled into believing in a system that has already repeatedly failed us and our nation.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

11. Remember this:

If lightning does indeed strike twice, his "legend" with his party and his base will be severly called into question. Especially after all of his rhetoric and spending and imperial proclamations.

It is gonna be very hard for repugs, running for re=election, to get all choked up over the maladministration, twice.

[Q]

17. You may be 'misunderestimating' the Bushies...

- Do you really think they're going to allow themselves to be bogged down in a scandal? Hell, no. Given recent history...it has to be taken for granted that they already have the next big 'distraction' planned and ready for execution.

- Or they can repeat history and simply let the next disaster happen. They know it's coming...hell...they're doing their best to escalate tensions around the world and to make sure every terrorist has a reason to attack us or our interests.

- The very foundation of Bush's* power resides in war and rumors of war. Even now they're beating the war drums against other 'evildoers' and spreading rumors of invisible enemies ready to attack.

- Nationalism. Every despot and banana republic knows how to use it. Be forewarned and actively fight against it instead of depending on a broken democracy to fit it for you.

[sattahipdeep]

12. RICHARD MILHOUS NIXON

All will lie open and exposed.

<lies that led us to America's first preemptive war.>

Questions That Need Answers

Making false or misleading statements?

Did he break the law or just bend it?

In all of this, Bush has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President
and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause
of law and justice and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.?

[nostamj]

13. fun factoid...

who bankrolled Nixon's political career from the very beginning?

PRESCOTT BUSH

everything, EVERYTHING ugly in America for more than 50 years goes right back to bushes.

[sattahipdeep]

27. Thing leads directly to Kennedy assassination.

HALLIBURTON (ROOT & BROWN)
http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/bronfmanbush.html

[whoYaCallinAlib]

15. Q, you are indeed a fine writer.

But I don't have a clue what the point of your post is. It seems all you are saying is (to paraphrase) "Bush is going to win". Is that the bottom line?

[Q]

20. The bottom line is that BUSH IS GOING TO CHEAT AND STEAL

...it's not as if we can't see it coming. Many are simply not looking for that second bolt of lightning to strike in the very same place.

- We seemed helpless to stop the trainwreck which was the 2000 selection. The Bushies were breaking the letter and the spirit of the law and no one did anything about it. The highest court in the land made an outlandish and illegal decision to install one of their own. This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the system.

- I'm concerned that so many of my fellow Democrats have fallen into the trap of complacency in the face of the most dangerous and corrupt executive branch ever to 'rule' in America.

- Bush* won't 'win' the 2004 election. But he and his cronies WILL and CAN steal it again if we don't learn from the past and make the corrections needed to prevent it.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

23. Thank you.

Why didn't you just say that the first time? Just kidding.

[babzilla]

16. OK chicken Q. little

you have convinced me. Impending disaster in the form of an oncoming train at the end of the tunnel is reigning down upon me. I am now as stricken as the proverbial deer in the headlights, I cannot move, I am paralyzed by the fear of the Bushies and the vast organization behind them. The sky really is falling and there is nothing I can do about it.

The only "conspiracy theories" I think are silly are the ones that try to tell me that resistance is futile. Keep on spreading the discouraging words dude, every little bit helps.

Forewarned is forearmed. Forewarned is forearmed. Forewarned is forearmed. Forewarned is forearmed. Thank you for your own personal form of programming Q, I will now consider myself forewarned and therefore forearmed.

[Q]

19. Your quaint little catchwords aside...

...most Americans still aren't aware that a coup took place in this country in the year 2000. And like you...they would rather not dwell on the loss of freedoms and the very Democracy our forefathers died to defend and protect.

- Resistance is required...not 'futile'. This isn't star trek...but the real world.

[babzilla]

26. most voters are aware of the coup

because the majority voted for Gore. At the very least that part of the population comprehend that the american people were screwed by the supreme court decision on bush v. gore.

Pardon my quaint catchwords but I am compelled to doubt the prophesies of doom when I encounter them. But that's just me, call me an optomist, but I just don't see how the failed policies of this administration will win over an increasingly dissatisfied populous.

The people to count on are the people who voted against Bush, that majority has got to be even larger today since in 3 long years Bush has proven beyond a doubt that he is incompetent.

[Lars39]

30. That's an assumption.

Even here at DU there are people that will not admit that there was a coup. The unwary, cable-news watching , non-internet surfing person probably hasn't come face to face with all the facts of the 2000 election.

[geomon]

46. OK...what evidence do you have to support the claim of a coup??

not rumor, not assumption but clear evidence...I am no ttrying to pick a fight but this 'coup' talk is pushing the edges of believability..

[PaDUer]

32. Screwed by the SC...

yet, they want ANOTHER PAY RAISE!! No way! It was them who handed the throne to boy wonder who in turn screwed each and every one of us! I think the people should scream about this NOW, because the more they get away with this, the more they're going to shove it down our throats! Since when are THEY any better than any of us?! THEY should do something to put a stop to the whackos NOW!!

[Terwilliger]

35. that is IN-correct

most are, not only, NOT aware, but the rigt-wing regularly tells people it's just whiney Dems who keep yelling about it

Bush will not lose the white house through incompetence...Democrats must convince enough people that THEY are the alternative

[JackieO]

18. Cheery!

I hear you loud and clear, Q. I personally think there is a good likelihood of the bush regime being removed by voters next year. I'm more than a little concerned however, with the possibility of the whole Terror War/Homeland Security agenda being ever-so-slightly modified and perpetuated by a corporatist Democrat.

[PaDUer]

33. Removed by voters??

The voters didn't put him in office, the SC did, and they got away with it!...They've already got the next election taken care of with those voting machines that doesn't leave a paper trail..and don't be surprised to see boy wonder put a delay to the next election..put nothing past this gang!!

[iangb]

21. Answers?...

The only ways Bush can retain office are:

1/ Win the election as the most popular candidate.

2/ Win the election by fraudulent means.

3/ Use his Emergency Powers.

The first is easy to counter.........decide on and support a candidate who's able to win.

The second .....well Bev and her BBV campaign are doing their utmost.

The third is where you come in. Congress has to limit those powers (and they are almost limitless)......the only way they'll do that is if there is a lot of noise about it.

[Mandate My Ass]

24. "Bush* cannot and will not be 'voted' out of office"

Bush said he will not make his father's mistakes. This is probably the only truthful statement he has made to date.

As far as I can tell, his domestic and foreign policies are far more destructive than his father's ever were. I believe him (Karl Rove) when he says he will not make his father's mistakes.

Translation: He will not allow the press to reveal how these policies are harming the common man and will not allow the disgruntled to vote him out of office as they did his father.

[Capn Sunshine]

25. THANKS Q

You always manage to articulate the scariest monsters that really ARE hiding in the closet, were we brave enough to rise from our slumber and edge over and open the door.

I for one, appreciate your honesty, and enter into battle knowing the worst just might be true.

Forward into the breech , my friends.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. Q.....i am hoping beyond all hope that you are wrong

even tho i believe you are correct...i cannot wrap by brain around it :scared:

[JanMichael]

29. There will be real conflict I fear.

Many millions that see these "people" for what they really are, criminals of the highest order, will simply refuse to submit.

I'm not looking forward to that...

[AlinPA]

36. We can win. Our only tough problem is broadcast media

is totally controlled by republicans / Karl Rove. (Or the other way around- the media owns them?)

[Ani Yun Wiya]

37. I agree.

Except for the part that there is nothing we can do about it.

What we need is for everything to come to a grinding halt: no work, no school, no nuthin'.

In place of the "business as usual" scenario we need to constantly demand the ouster of the present crew of criminals.

Protest, civil disobedience, and more if needed.

Stop watching the tube: Talk with those around you person to person, have large "discussion groups" in public, etc.

The world is waiting and hoping that "We the people" will stop the madness, before it spreads further.

[Q]

38. I meant to say there's nothing we can do about it IF...

...our nation continues to ignore the obvious.

- I don't watch much television. But I'd like to know what has been done to guarantee that 2004 won't be a repeat of 2000? Shall we depend on the 'free press' to speak truth to power? That might be a bad idea considering they are PART of that power. Will we once again trust those who think counting all the votes is secondary to winning?

- The media is now part and parcel of the corporate state. Journalists have become little more than stenographers for the Bush* WH. They'll tell you that Bush* didn't LIE about Iraq and WMD...he was 'misinformed'. Bush's* problem is solved and his faithful followers are undeterred from their worship.

- Watergate. Iran/Contra. WMDGate...ALL involving Republican administrations. Anyone see a pattern here?

[Lostnote03]

41. "Q"

....I've read enough of your posts to understand that we tend to think alike....The only thing that I can suggest is to keep coming up with creative angles to negate the media dominance of politial discourse....The media should be the main focus of any and all efforts to expose the fascist tendancies of our country....The media is equally dangerous as the bush cabal....Maybe Bev. Harris could post a few pointers as to the mechanics involved with "low cost" implementation of factual rebuttals....best wishes

[Oracle]

42. - Bush* cannot and will not be 'voted' out of office!!!! I've saying this.

for well over a year and you said it as well (I think better than I ever had.)

This is something many here on DU can not see...they are programed to believe, 1) if you try hard enough it will go your way and your canidate will win 2) every vote actually counts (as we know, the fascist, they are working on all aspects this one included...of stealing the next election, they won't leave anything to chance. 3)the economy will be Bush's downfall...as if FEAR, this administration will stick in our face will take a backseat to the economy. 4) they really don't see how truly sick, power-mad money hungry vampires thses fucks are...they almost believe the corporate media bullshit and think they can filter their way through...

IT'S MUCH WORST THAN THEY WANT TO BELIEVE.

It reminds me so much of Reagan...I knew absolute knew by his second year in office, there was no way this military, money making machine was going to let him lose a re-election...too much is at stake...they know they can steal elections and we will and can do nothing,

Yes indeed Bush 2004 in a landslide and the press will eagerly let us know it is a mandate for Bush's policies...We are fucked...another four years and we will resemble a complete facsist state as bad as anything one can imagine...and anyone who disagrees with these Bush loving freepers, are liberal commies and don't love our country...they love the terrorist more.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I Don't Understand

Are you saying the Reagan reelection in 1984 was rigged?

[Q]

44. In the past...

...I've started threads asking the question: do the Dems have a plan if Bush* stays in the WH after 2004? Will the centrists continue their appeasement and bipartisan 'date rape'?

- Mine is not the first warning and it won't be the last. Jefferson and other founders warned long ago that the wealthy elite would make an attempt to wrestle control of the government away from the people.

- That time is now. The choice is yours: democracy or tyranny?

[Q]

45. Woke up this morning to all the 'Bush is going down'...

...because of this or that threads. Never in my life have I seen such denial from the Left.

- Bush* isn't going anywhere until at least well into his SECOND TERM. Think: Nixon.

- Democrats must throw off this denial and get to work. The instruments of government that make presidents accountable no longer exists. The Republican party has been taken over by right wing zealots and reactionaries and won't allow Bush* to fall no matter how many lies he tells.

- Call your representatives and demand that they stand up to Bush*: investigate and hold hearings. Think: impeachment.