Cheney aides Libby & Hannah to be indicted, Rudy will be new VP nom!

[Dems Will Win]

Cheney is already a huge liability for Bush and soon his top aides will be indicted according to UPI's Richard Sale. I think Cheney will then drop out for health reasons and Rudy will be nominated for VP instead at the 9-11 Convention in NYC. Cheney can still run things behind the scenes and just not be VP.

Rudy, you know, went along with the EPA and covered up the toxic nature of the WTC dust, then refused to buy $250,000 worth of respirators for the workers. That now adds up to a $90 million in insurance and thousands of workers ill and then dead.

Also Breslin accuses Guiliani of distracting the fire chief so that he was not in his truck to relay the message to evacuate from the helicopter above that the building was going to collapse! Plus he accuses him of not fixing the radio problem for 18 months after the request was made. That's why so many firefighters died that day unnecessarily. Guiliani.

-snip-

Before the lecture, he dismissed recent accusations that he was not as prepared as he should have been before the attacks. He rejected criticism by Newsday columnist Jimmy Breslin that he and former fire commissioner Thomas Von Essen did nothing about 18-month-old communication problems that caused the deaths of hundreds of firefighters.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

-snip -

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/3585495.htm

Picking Rudy in a surprise move days before 9-11, Guiliani's VP nomination could build up the GOP convention bounce. Rudy would then speak to accept his nomination.

Although they would not win NY, it could help in swing states where Rudy is seen as a kind of super-hero by the aeasily befuddled masses.

Add your knowledge of Giuliani to this thread.

[Leilani]

1. Rudy won't be on the ticket

First of all, the Repub base is already mad at Bush & they would never accept a gay rights, pro choice New Yorker on the ticket.

Secondly, Guiliani would never go & hide ina bunker, like Cheney does. Rudy likes the spotlight, & Bush does not allow the spotlight on anyone but himself.

Thirdly, Rudy is smarter & more articulate than Shrub, therefore he would not be on ticket.

[rocktivity]

6. I can see Rudy flip-flopping to get on the ticket

After all, he unsealed the 20-year old juvenile record of a man one of his cops had killed to prove that he was "dangerous."

:headbang:
rocknation

[blm]

18. I agree with you, rocknation.

He is easily capable of toeing any line he has to.

[Dulcinea]

25. Not gonna happen.

Giuliani would never play second fiddle to a nincompoop like Boy George. Or anyone else, for that matter. His ego is much too big for that. Plus, the Bible-thumping mouth-breathers who make up so much of the Repub base would never accept a Catholic, socially liberal New Yorker.

[calimary]

38. It's also possible that adding Rudy to the ticket would open the

republi-CONS up to even more accusations that they're exploiting 9/11 for political gain. It wouldn't go over well with EVERYBODY, especially some of the 9/11 families. But others WOULD buy it, and eagerly. But it's still a BIG gamble. Maybe bigger than they realize.

There's the Arnold motivation, though, that - on the surface - works in their favor. Arnold took the recall out here in California. But Arnold was able to succeed for three reasons:

1) His star power. People liked his movie characters and his onscreen "on-Jay-Leno" and public-appearance persona.
2) Gray Davis, to a lot of people out here, including many Dems, sucked. For WHATEVER reason, although I think he was framed on the Enron/energy piracy issue out here.
3) Arnold is a republi-CON most Dems believe they can actually live with, because he's not a died-in-the-wool knuckle-dragger. He is pro-choice, he does not oppose gay rights, and he supports affirmative action. All in all, he's pretty moderate, as republi-CONS go, which made him the lesser of many republi-CON evils. Lots of Dems went with him when they gave up on Davis and read the writing on the wall, because at least he wasn't another Darrell Issa or Bill Simon or some other hopeless reactionary hack. Such republi-CONS do NOT go over well in California. California leans too far moderate/liberal overall.

Therefore, the republi-CONS in the campaign think that Arnold will deliver California to bush. I could certainly be wrong, not being psychic, but I seriously doubt that'll happen. California, again, is too moderate/liberal, overall, in its leanings.

They might assume adding Rudy to the ticket would do the same, but they'd be faced with the problem of the Christian fundies, who'd vomit blood if they thought a pro-choice candidate were on THEIR ticket. That, after all, is what motivates lots of conservatives to hate liberals - they love to label us "baby-killers" because we support a woman's right to choose. And it's as much of a litmus test for them, as it is for someone like me, who will NEVER vote for someone who's anti-choice - it's an absolute deal-breaker for me. AND, Rudy has baggage from his messy, messy divorce, including parading all over the place with his squeeze on his arm before his divorce was final, and wanting to move her into the governor's mansion BEFORE HIS WIFE AND KIDS MOVED OUT. Those who consider themselves "family values" voters will NOT be able to stomach that. And many of them will probably stay home rather than hold their nose and vote for such a ticket.

Whatever. We just have to be ready for it. Whatever "it" is.

[Yupster]

2. I also hunch that Cheney won't be back, but

I would not bet on Guiliani. He would hurt the base vote too much.

In Texas, Bush always made it a point to have lots of minorities on the state wide ballot with him. I am expecting a long ball from Bush. A woman or minority for VP. I'd guess Powell if I had to bet on someone.

[Dems Will Win]

5. Powell hates Bush

He won't do it and is expected to leave in January of 2005. He knows what the PNAC Plan is and does not support it.

Rudy meanwhile wants Tajikistan all for himself probably.

Plus the base will be so worried about Kerry after Cheney's aides are indicted for outing Plame that they will vote anyhow and Bush can say to the swing, I'm not all anti-gay.

[NewJeffCT]

13. how about both?

A woman and a minority? Condi Rice. I've been speculating that for a while now. She is Bush's "unsticker" after all.

[Timefortruth]

34. Naw, her voice cracks when she lies, which means she

can't speak anymore without her voice cracking. Also, she gets a little emotional under pressure.

[AngryYoungMan]

3. They will not dump Cheney.

Cheney runs the show. There is nobody who can tell him what to do. As a private citizen he is vulnerable to indictment, questioning etc. It will never happen. It will never happen. It's like saying Microsoft will "dump" Bill Gates. It's impossible.

[Stephanie]

14. Exactly. Cheney's not going anywhere.

Until they pry that nuclear football from his cold hands.

Cheney IS the administration.

[hang a left]

16. Remember Stephanie we have a Bet!

I know how I am going to spend it too. ;- )

[Stephanie]

35. How much did we bet?

That was in LBN, right? What's the bet exactly? Cheney goes before the convention? Before the general?

I say he WON'T.

What's the bet?

How about the loser donates $40 to Kerry? If you want to, you can up the amount. Because YOU are going to be making that donation. Cheney has his money-grubbing bloodless hands on the reins and he will NEVER let go.

[hang a left]

41. Our bet was for a buck. It was that Cheney would not be on the

ticket come November. How about a donation to Move On or DU.

[hang a left]

43. It was too late to edit. I will take your new bet. But I would

prefer to donate to either of the two stated above.

[Stephanie]

44. Okay - a donation to DU

One buck? Wanna say ten? Or - how much have you got?

[hang a left]

45. I'll see your $40.

n/t

[whistle]

4. I think...

...nothing but a bunch of lying crocked bastards is an apt description of BushCo. So, most certainly Rudy is a strong candidate for VP. I believe Karl Rove would consider that a brilliant move reasoning that with his cancer, should Rudy die shortly after the election, Cheney could then again be openly made VP and the everything would be back the way it was. One problem though. Bush is going to loose!
:bounce: :toast: :party:

[chelsea0011]

7. Impossible....the base beyond the East Coast hate New Yorkers

They are probably second to my Mass. hometown in which the religious right hates more... NYC or "liberal" gay-"lovi'n" commie-pinko Massoles.

[Ruby Romaine]

8. Rudy has had sex scandals/was married to a cousin etc...

[DinahMoeHum]

9. and that does NOT play well with Bible-bangers down South.

n/t

:evilfrown:

[truth2power]

36. He married his cousin????

I never heard that.

[Chovexani]

40. His first wife was his cousin

Divorced her, whored around with damn near everything in a skirt while married to wife #2 (Judi Nathan is only the most famous one, due to the court case).

No fucking way Fooliani will ever be VP. He's too much an egomaniac to play second fiddle to anybody, let alone Chimpy, and he's too big a liability for the Repukes with the fundie base. He's too liberal to be run nationally.

The only thing I can see him doing is maybe being appointed Atty Gen. if Asscroft's health gets bad. But even that's probably not going to happen.

Unka Dick ain't going anywhere, he's running the show and he's not giving that up for ANYBODY.

[JI7]

42. not just cousin, but FIRST COUSIN

he wasn't just married to some cousin who was so distant that they weren't all that related. he was married to his FIRST cousin.

[caledesi]

10. Rudy will not be on the ticket - too much baggage

Divorced his wife for mistress - lied, said she was a "friend"
Pro-Choice - Coathanger Coalition won't like that
Pro-Gay - Ditto (He lived w/ 2 gay men during his divorce)

But of course, in the true spirit of Repug Family Values, he married his "friend" and now is on marriage #3.

Dontcha love it?

[Ganja Ninja]

11. It's possible.

If it were done as an October surprise after Cheney suffers a sudden heart attack. It would be close enough to the election that the media wouldn't be able to put out anything too negative.

As if the media would say anything negative about a republican anyway. Haven't we all learned that lesson. Republicans always get a free ride no matter how much baggage they have.

[hang a left]

19. I jsut don't think he will hang until October.

I would suspect the indictments to be handed down before the end of April. Remember May 1st is when Joe Wilson's tell-all hits the shelves.

[robertpaulsen]

12. Would the PNAC just let go of their position of power...

without a suitable replacement to do Cheney's bidding? I don't think so. There has been enough friction, namely Bush publicly contradicting Cheney's public reiteration of the Saddam-9/11 connection, that I don't think Cheney would trust Bush to keep him controlling things behind the scenes if he were to give up his position of power.

The only way that would happen would be if a suitable PNAC replacement were recommended. I think a Bush/Bush ticket is more likely than a Bush/Guiliani ticket. The PNAC runs things now, and they won't give up the reins unless Kerry gets 55% of the vote come November. Anything closer and Diebold will take care of things.

[Unknown Known]

15. Cheney is too powerful

Unless PNAC decides to put Richard Perle in his place:evilgrin:

[Jane Austin]

20. Perle

Did you see Perle on Late Edition yesterday?

That guy is a master at seeming to have facts at hand, but in reality all he is saying is "they haven't convinced me" or "I believe" or "what I think is".

He sure doesn't let any new information get in the way of his preconceived notions.

[Jane Austin]

17. Link?

Do you have a link to the indictment story?

Thanks.

[Dems Will Win]

24. LINK TO HANNAH, LIBBY INDICTMENT STORY

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/020704A.shtml

Cheney's Staff Focus of Probe
By Richard Sale


-SNIP-

Federal law-enforcement officials said that they have developed hard evidence of possible criminal misconduct by two employees of Vice President Dick Cheney's office related to the unlawful exposure of a CIA officer's identity last year. The investigation, which is continuing, could lead to indictments, a Justice Department official said.

According to these sources, John Hannah and Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, were the two Cheney employees. "We believe that Hannah was the major player in this," one federal law-enforcement officer said. Calls to the vice president's office were not returned, nor did Hannah and Libby return calls.

The strategy of the FBI is to make clear to Hannah "that he faces a real possibility of doing jail time" as a way to pressure him to name superiors, one federal law-enforcement official said.

According to one administration official, "The White House was really pissed, and began to contact six journalists in order to plant stories to discredit Wilson," according to the New York Times and other accounts.

-SNIP-

next story:

The Day Cheney was Rocked to the Core
By Jim Lobe

-SNIP-

Quoting "federal law-enforcement officials," UPI's intelligence correspondent Richard Sale reported on Thursday that the two main suspects were none other than Libby and Hannah. One official reportedly told Sale that Hannah was being advised "that he faces a real possibility of doing jail time" in order to pressure him to implicate higher-ups - presumably Libby, if not, perhaps, Cheney himself.

A 1982 law makes deliberately revealing the identity of covert intelligence officers a felony punishable by as many as 10 years in prison. If either Hannah or Libby were officially named as suspects or actually indicted, the impact on Cheney's credibility and electability would be devastating.

According to recent polls, Cheney's approval ratings, hovering around 20 percent, are already far below Bush's, which have themselves sunk below 50 percent for the first time in his presidency. Even Halliburton, whose public image has become so tarnished that it has launched a controversial television ad campaign to boost its image, last week listed Cheney's association to the company as a "risk factor" for its shareholders.

Republicans in Congress, particularly on the intelligence and foreign relations committees, find themselves having to devote more time and political capital to defending the vice president, and even some influential Republican donors have privately suggested that Cheney bow out. Speculation about possible replacements - most recently, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani (the Republican convention is in New York City, August 30 to September 2.) - is growing steadily. Of course, there's always another day.


-SNIP-

[Jane Austin]

27. Thanks.

I am eager for the next step.

[KansDem]

21. They'll dump Bush from the ticket...

...after convincing America that it was really Bush in charge and, as such, should take the fall. Dick Cheney will then run as the Vice-President, and choose Dan Quayle as the Presidential candidate. Their ad campaign will use slogans like: "Vote Cheney for VP and get Pres. Quayle!" or something like "Dan Quayle...a step up!" or, "Quayle...after Bush, he's downright brilliant!"

After all, Quayle is pure PNAC (one of the signatories), and will "play ball" with the PNACers.

[blm]

22. Here's the original Breslin column.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/ny-nybres022729364jun02,0,1421126.column

>>>>>>
That the police and firefighters could not speak to one another is a problem that had been part of municipal life for a year-and-a-half at least and it has not been straightened out to this day.

The Mayor Giuliani, your hero, and his fire commissioner, Von Essen, did nothing, and so many died, and Giuliani and Von Essen stood in front of cameras - heroes.

That the firefighters do not open their mouths and scream to the skies that their brothers had been helpless victims is disheartening. They don't want to do it because they don't want to do it. Better you should have a beer in the memory of the fallen and then report to work in silence than to risk the disapproval of some boss or commissioner by calling out that your friends had died because of their horrendous negligence.

It is a fact that in this country you have free speech. And nearly everybody is afraid to use it.

So far, one person, Deputy Chief Charles Blaich, has spoken out in public about these hundreds of needless deaths. Among the things he doesn't fear is some cheap city commissioner.

>>>>>>>>>>
There were a couple of news stories, nothing followed. A thousand stories were printed about hero firefighters and they were marvelous for the men still working and the families of the dead, but they accomplished nothing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[mouse7]

23. They can't throw the real President off the ticket.

We all know Cheney is the real President. Dumbya get's bored and sleepy upon the first mention of the term "economics." He doesn't know there are different branches of Islam being followed in Iraq. It's theoretically impossible for Dumbya to be the one who is making any decisions.

You can't toss the President off the ticket. Cheney is the President.

[Dems Will Win]

29. The real Board of Directors is Carlyle Group

Cheney will rotate over to the Carlyle Board and become Chairman now that George H. W. Bush is leaving Carlyle. He will pull all the strings from there without missing a beat and W and Rudy will dance to his tune.

You read it here first.

[mouse7]

33. No, it isn't. Carlyle just profits from the PNAC messes

The PNAC are in charge. Cheney is their leader. Cheney is in charge, and will surrender that power to nobody.

Carlyle Group is just well connected cronies that make lots of money off PNAC policies.

[Dems Will Win]

30. The real Board of Directors is Carlyle Group

Cheney will rotate over to the Carlyle Board and become Chairman now that George H. W. Bush is leaving Carlyle. He will pull all the strings from there without missing a beat and W and Rudy will dance to his tune.

You read it here first.

[adriennel]

26. ain't gonna happen

Dick ain't going anywhere...all this Rudy talk is just that

[CO Liberal]

28. UPI Is Owned By Sun Yung Moon of the Washington Times

I wouldn't believe anything UPI reported unless it was also being reported by AP and Reuters.

[BabsSong]

31. Rudy has a bit of a "morals" issue for the right wing fundies

(of course they have a way of excusing those things in their own). However, I've heard plenty of analysts say that Bush can't dump Cheney because he then admits there was a whole bunch of illegal stuff and lying about war and Enron trying to rape the country, etc. To arrest staff is just a way that they can say "see the big boys were innocent but it was a bunch of staffers who did not serve their honest, wonderful masters well".

[Moderator]

32. Dems Will Win

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.

DU Moderator

[BeachBuckeye]

37. Always remember who Rudy was on 9-10

He was a mayor who was a liar and adulterer. 9-11 cleansed him of all of his sins. Can anyone tell me what he OR Bush did that anyone else in their places wouldn't have done during those times? I mean, hell, we can all speak thru megaphones can't we?

[Kimber Scott]

39. Cheney is Bush's Insurance Policy

against all those who would harm the president. Think about it.