Is Bush truly religious?

[Hamlette]

Poll question: Is Bush truly religious?

There are days when I think Bush is playing them for fools (Reagan clearly did) and there are days when I think Bush is so wacky he believes it all (God made him Prez etc.).

[mot78]

1. I remember reading Kevin Phillips' book about the BFEE

and he said they started to embrace Evangelicalism at the same time of the rise of the Fundie right.

[bryant69]

2. I think he really believes

I don't think he lets it get in his way, though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[elfwitch]

3. I think he really believes...

I just think he believes in the really F-ed up version of Christianity that he was taught. He believes in the A-hole Jesus that only likes people who behave a certain way.

[Bucky]

4. Troubling question

I think maybe he changes back and forth. What you need to realize about "true believers" is that they too "go back and forth" between the public piety and the Macchiavellian calculations that justify their exploitation of other peoples' beliefs. The average choir singer is genuinely pious and compassionate and devoted to Christian values. But the average deacon, elder, or upper echelon beta male in a fundamentalist heirarchy (and W. is a true beta male, btw, happy to follow whatever directives his "advisors" give him), these secondary male leaders really believe they're doing right by using manipulative and misleading arguments to get the flock to move along the right path.

If you think about how they frequently argue that God misleads us in order to get us to live a faithful, religious life, you can see the seeds of that thinking that to manipulate the faithful is okay if it's done with the right goal in mind. Moses can smash the Ten Commandments God gave him, so long as he ends up pointing the Israelites toward the Promised Land.

[RobertSeattle]

5. Seems CHRINO to me

CHRIstian in Name Only.

Reminds me of the quote - "don't tell me your a Christian, left me figure it out (from your acts)" And I certainly couldn't figure it out from watching his actions.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Legalistic and religious, yes

Spiritual and big on the grace of God? Doesn't seem like it.

http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[myopic4141]

7. Yes

Shrubby is truly religious; but, not a person of faith. Most fundamentalist believers are the same. In reality, they have no faith in what they profess to believe and their willingness to act contrary to their fundamental belief proves it.

[Lunatic Fringe]

8. As Christian as anyone

With out doubt, Bush is as Christian as they come.

But then basically anyone that claims to be a Christian IS a Christian.

I have yet to find much common ground between any two Christians other than the self proclamation that THEY are the TRUE Christian. It is so funny to hear each Christian want to distance themselves from all the other Christians.

But as a litmus test.

Does he believe there was an actual Jesus and this guy was god? I see little doubt of that.

Does he believe that this makes him better than others? I see little doubt of it.

Does he speak out against those that do not accept the same superstition? I see little doubt.

Does he spew hate for those others? I see little doubt.

Does he kill "other believers"? I see little doubt.

Yep he's a Christian all right!

[RoadRunner]

10. Hi Lunatic Fringe, Welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[Lunatic Fringe]

23. Hidy Ho!

Thanks. I head this site mentioned on some streaming radio earlier. As a long time Deaniac I might hang around some? :-)

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Lunatic Fringe!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[DieboldMustDie]

9. He's a true disciple of...

Supply Side Jesus.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. I buy it

Although he surely understands the advantages he gains by sidling up to the phalanx of believers, it makes sense on just about every level that he actually DOES believe. Many people are loathe to think this, because they identify belief as an inherently good thing, and dismiss any evil that comes from the phenomenon.

There are good things in the Christian belief system (acceptance, tolerance, kindness to the downtrodden) but there are many bad things too (subservience to superiority, assumption that "it'll all work out", xenophobia, proselytizing, nullifying of reality by an afterlife's "fairness", close-minded dismissal of discordant evidence) that shouldn't be glossed over.

At the heart of my contention that he does believe is an inherent selfishness that comes from the concept of a personal god and the essential self-oriented action of saving one's ass. Making sure one gets saved is a selfish pursuit, and the more fundamentalist and strict the interpretation, the more greedy and ugly the whole thing is. To a great degree, the Christian faith is extremely malleable depending on the personality of the believer; to a true and sweet believer in the warmth of the guess (because it IS that: a guess) living one's life the right way is an end itself, whereas to a skunk, it's a case of following the letter of the law and utilizing all the forgiveness and other "outs" to do as he/she pleases. To a sweet believer, swaying converts is magnanimous and selfless, whereas to a creep, it's a case of getting more scalps to curry favor with the Sky Chief. To a creep, ill done to a non-believer doesn't really amount to much, and ill done to anyone doesn't much matter either, since the big guy will sort it all out anyway.

There is a childlike subservience looking for the approval of the superior being that is a danger at the heart of most religions, and certainly that one. To George W. Bush, someone who believes in inequality of mortals, this fits just fine: there are lesser people, and there are greater entities. Unfortunately, one of the "outs" of most religions is that it lets people off the hook for their actions. This, coupled with the extreme selfishness of personal salvation (and belonging to the exclusive club) is a perfect fit for the privileged mindset.

Much of the desire for faith is a hatred of uncertainty: grey areas are to be abhorred and nuances are to be crushed; this is the heart and soul of George W. Bush, a person of VERY limited intelligence, outsized ego and imperious will to control everything around him. He is this way for many reasons, but principal among them is that he's ill-equipped to deal with analysis, change or subtlety, and he demands--by his proclamation of privileged superiority--to not be bothered.

Yes, I truly think he believes, and I think he feels "called upon" for greatness by his god. He is messianic and megalomaniacal and will brook no dissent. He represents the dark side of selfishness that is intrinsic in virtually all major religions. It has been the bane and source of much of the viability of Christianity through history, and I will still contend that the overall balance sheet for this religion has been in the red, with capacity to produce seas of red with regularity.

Oh yes, he believes.

[Lunatic Fringe]

22. the Christian belief system?

"There are good things in the Christian belief system (acceptance, tolerance, kindness to the downtrodden)"

Sorry, but those are NOT Christian tenets. Those are SECULAR tenets that those that have not actually studied the bible THINK are Christian because their SECULAR morals do not allow them to follow the REAL tenets of the bible.

The biblical Jesus tells his followers specifically that he did NOT come to bring peace, but the sword. Matthew 10:34 That you must HATE EVERYONE to follow him. Luke 14:26 and must SLAY those that will not serve him. Luke 19:27

It has only been the advancement of SECULAR Laws (the Enlightenment) and Government (the US) that has put an end to the attrocities of Christianity, it's published tenets and it's authorities.

Unfortunately this TRUTH is harder to find than the TRUTH behind the attrocities of the Bush admin.

[Chovexani]

12. Chimpy's only god is Mammon

The entire BFEE cynically manipulates fundie religion by using the right code words, etc. in order to get votes and blind support, plain and simple.

Their only god is Mammon.

[Skittles]

14. I cannot believe people can actually believe that SOB is truly religious

how naive are people? The man practically has a neon PHONY sign attached to his forehead.

[Westegg]

15. My feeling? Bush is a dry drunk...

...who uses the rituals of conservative Christianity to stay sober instead of a 12-step program. He wouldn't be the first. Is he "truly religious"? Well, I think he truly believes. Whether he's leading a truly Christian life or not is certainly debatable. As my late mother used to say, "You can't be a true Christian if you're a hypocrite." I think that's in the Bible somewhere...

Don't ask me, I'm a goddamn sinner.

[amazona]

16. i seriously doubt he has any religion

Supposedly he is a Methodist yet his own church repudiated him on the Iraq war issue. It didn't seem to trouble him any. His only god is the dollar.

[Lunatic Fringe]

25. No Secular Humanist!

Never even suggest that Bush is NOT religious. It is an insult to every non-religious Secular Humanist. He higlights what is WRONG with Religion. The best thing that could happen to him (and our country) would be if he rejected Christianity.

[Beaker]

17. Yes....but money & power are the gods he worships-

with oil rounding out his holy trinity.

[Jacobin]

18. Who gives a rat's ass

[jsw_81]

19. No, he uses it for votes

People who have spoken with Bush privately have said that he is a crude, rude asshole. His "religion" is used only to get votes at election time.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. I think he's a sociopath, and as such

good at putting on the personality that he wants people to see and at self-justification. If he lived in North Korea, he'd be acting like Kim Jong-Il's biggest fan--until he tried to assassinate him and get all the goodies for himself.

[starroute]

21. Being religious and being a true believer are not the same

Real religion is based on a sense of the inexhaustible mystery of the cosmos. Quasi-religious belief is the delusion that you have answers to the unanswerable.

Real religion leads to humility in the face of the unknown. Belief leads to arrogance.

Bush is a believer. He is not religious.

[seabeyond]

24. i like the way the subject asked

is bush religious, but the poll said believer. i said yes on believer, but i am mor to the religious. cause he is not in the purity and grace of it, he is in the man made cult of religion

[beanball]

26. Is he religious?

maybe,the question should be is he a Christian? well he sure don't act like a Christian.Christians don't covet or desire his neighbor goodies(oil,land,etc)Christians don't kill or have people killed,Christians don't lie,don't steal,if we are going to measure by Christian standards then he fails,he is just another greedy,evil little tyrant.

[seabeyond]

27. i even seperate

religion and christianity. religion to me is a man made rule. and that is what i feel he is following not christ conscious, or as you say christianity