You Dean-naysayers are being brainwashed...

[TruthIsAll]

into thinking that Dean will be another "McGovern". First of all, McGovern was and is a great American. But if you listen to the crap from LIEberman and the Rove Media about how left "Dean" is, consider this: The country is MOVING left, not right. We need to capitalize on the feelings of resignation and disenfranchisement which permeate our society.

The people want action. They want activist government on their behalf, not on behalf of Big Oil. They want the freedoms, the fresh air, the history that has been taken from them. They want their hopes back. They are not so STUPID that they believe they will get it back by a Fascist neo-Conservative state.

The American people do not want the rightward lurch to continue. They want the pendulum reversed - now. We are seeing the stirrings of a populist revolt.

Do not be fooled into dismissing Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, as leftists who don't stand a chance. Don't let the labels blind you. These are decent, concerned Americans who need our support. The conventional wisdom is B.S. We need a combination of populism and "responsible" capitalism. And yes, there are responsible, patriotic capitalists out there, who believe that their success is a function of employee satisfaction and responsible government.

Dean and Dennis seem OK to me. And their voices are resonating with the independents. Do not be fooled by the Rove propaganda.

[duid12]

1. Are they?

>>The country is MOVING left, not right

Are they? My feeling has been the opposite lately.

I do know a few people that previously considered themselves hardcore conservatives who are in the Dean camp now after being sickened by the Republican trifecta...but I have also seen more of the middle of the road people I know drift to the right...amazing what a $400 check will do for some.

[Cha]

10. Wait until there "$400.00 check" is gone and their property taxes

go up and the infrastructure is Down!

If I had gotten $400 it would be gone in a New York second!

[poskonig]

25. Well, the GOP *has* been stealing our rhetoric

on crucial issues like education, social security, prescription drugs, et cetera.

[searchingforlight]

2. I concur.

eom

[joeybee12]

5. I don't know if the country is moving left

I don't think it is, but I do believe people are more liberal than the media and the washington pols believe they are.

That said, it really doesn't matter. People will vote for someone who stands for something. Right now Dean is the only candidate who has been able to articulate that he does stand for something, and can capitalize on the disgust many feel for Dumbo.

The problem is that he is fairly new to the national scene, and the media and the DLC will try to eat him alive. It's going to get nasty.

[Pepperbelly]

3. Dean's manner is off-putting to me ...

Unless there are some substantial changes in the political, economic, military, security, and legal environmental, his anger will not persuade many people beyond those that can be charitably called the Choir.

[Cha]

12. He's already convincing People who are not "the choir"...

so that argument doesn't hold water.

Evidently you haven't been reading any of the Dean sites where all the stories of new "meetup members" are being told.


I love Dean's "manner"! He's in bush's face! But then some People just like the way the dems in the Senate have been handling matters for the last 3 freakin' years. NOt Me!

[Pepperbelly]

16. it's not an argument ...

I am telling you that his manner puts me off and I am not warming to him as so many of his supporters are warming to him.

Unless I am completely out of the mainstream, that could well signal a problem for him. His positions are okay but so far, I just don't like the dude.

[Cha]

31. That's too bad you are "put off by his manner" but WE The

People aren't! Dean's manner is great! I love this guy!

[Pepperbelly]

34. you should get a handle on your hubris ...

last time I checked, i, too, have a right to vote for whom I want. In addition, who in the hell do you think you are to tell me what "We the People" want?

:eyes:

[Room101]

24. Pepperbelly DEAN has addressed the anger issue and said

That he will use it to fuel the DEM base and is starting to migrate to more populist tone downed manner. You’re mad about what’s going on right? I get mad when the DEMS don't get mad. * Has fucked this country! We should all be mad.

[poskonig]

26. What is this Dean = Angry crap?

His Texas ad, for instance, looked pretty damn plain to me.

[Upfront]

28. Pepper

Do you not have some anger? I do, and Dean is expressing it. His manner is just that, his manner. Which teacher did you learn the most from, the one that let you get away with anything, or the one that said hear is how it is, get with it. Dean is saying, hear is how it is, get with it America! The train is leaving boys get on board. No slam intended Pepper, I just feal different and wanted you to know why.:toast:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. Please. Dean is the opposite of Kucinich

The new Dean strategy - try to get some labor credibility by saying nice things about Kucinich. Better than their attacks on Kucinich's looks, I suppose.

[JohnKleeb]

8. look WCTV

We as Kucinich supporters got to tell the Dean supporters who think like us, that you only get a 90 degree turn with Dean, but you get a 180 with Kucinich. Its hard work but I will tell you this, if Dean supporters well some of them had more open minds, they would be all for Kucinich.

[dajabr]

14. I can only speak for myself...

But as a Dean supporter, I was much more sympathetic to Kucinich before some of his supporters here put a target on Dean's back.

There used to be much more of a comraderie between the Dean and DK camps here. I miss those days. Guess that's politics... :shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

17. well I dont have a target on Deans back

Some of Dean's supporters do the same to Kucinich. Look its like '68 with RFK and McCarthy, the true peace candiates, I would be for RFK probably and someone would be for Gene McCarthy but I think we could respectively agree. Look Ive seen one person show a picture of Kucinich and say now does this look presidential, that pisses me off yet I keep my Dean supporting friends. Some of us just think Dean will only be a 90 degree turn instead of a 180 turn. I share your concerns but it happens both ways and I dont like it, and I dont like being told Kucinich doesnt have a chance just because he doesnt have an angolized last name and he is too "ugly". Its ok.

[dajabr]

19. That's why I said "some"

I think the core of Dean supporters and the core of DK supporters here had a lot of mutal respect for each other's candidate. And, if pot-shots were being taken, one of us would defend the other. It doesn't seem to be going that way anymore - and it's sad.

[JohnKleeb]

20. yes it is sad

I dont believe the myth of the "asshole" Dean supporter but I may prefer Kerry to Dean, no offense really. I do a little defending from time to time.

[Cha]

32. I like Dennis and have only respect for him!

Anybody who was against this war has my respect.

[Capn Sunshine]

21. Remember that candidate rating thing?

The one where you answered some poll questions and you get a rating of the candidates?

Well, John, Kucinich scored 100% for me.
Dean, 96.5%
I'm in the DLC.
I'm a member of the National Committee to elect Dean.

I LOVE Kucinich; but he is the one horse in the race who is NOT electable. More power to you guys.

The VALUE of having a Dennis in the race is to articulate things that need to be said. Same with Sharpton. Stay in, and remember we are all democrats , and support our man when he wins the nomination.

Peace out.

[JohnKleeb]

23. well if so many share Kucinich's views

Why not throw an all around liberal? If the winner takes some of Dennis's ideas and gives him credit, I think I would be happy. Why cant he win anyhow? He's won in the past where he had little chance.

[JohnKleeb]

6. If thats so then Kucinich would be better

McGovern actually is one of my heroes, I like Dean but if the country is moving left as you say, Kucinich would be better. Thanks though I agree with you though that a leftist does have a chance.

[wheresthemind]

7. I aggree that we are and should be moving left...

If Dean were just a little more left in a few places he might be my man, but until then I'm going with my voting for who I believe in! : )

Paul Wellstone would be proud...

* I was not bashing Dean at all here, the thread kinda is a Dean and Dennis thread it seems *

[JohnKleeb]

9. yes Wellstone would be proud

If Paul hadnt died, I think most of us would be supporting Wellstone, I think he would run, Wellstone/Kucinich I would like that. Not only do you get a progressive team, but you get the first Jewish president and the first president from Minnesota.

[Jackpine Radical]

22. Minnesota has a pretty lousy track record

of losing Dem candidates--Humphrey, Gene McCarthy, Mondale, and of course the perennially youthful Harold Stassen come to mind off hand.

All of them (with the exception of poor Harold) good, intellectual. liberal men, but all too Adlai-ish to win.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

11. I wish with all my heart that what you were saying was true.

Alas, EVERY poll I read says the opposite. The country is becoming more conservative. Maybe, I just need to find a different set of polls, huh?

[unfrigginreal]

13. Don't see it the way you do

For one thing, I don't think that Dean is Leftist at all, while I do think that Kucinich is.

Dean is just a regular Joe that wants to see the government do better...that's what attracts me to him. He's not afraid to go against popular opinion if he thinks it would be harmful to the nation. It's about damned time that we have a Democrat that acts that way.

[Cha]

15. I agree! By my profile I should be for Kucinich and I do like him

but I have been for Dean ever since Gore dropped out and a lot of it is I just like his style! Right now he's running that ad in Austin..asking isn't it about time someone called bush on his policies? The man has chutzpah!

And he wasn't for this damn Iraq attack! like so many of the candidates.

And I know Kucinich wasn't either..it's just visceral with Dean! :kick:

[Mz Pip]

18. MOving left???

I sure haven't seen any evidence of that. If anything it's going more toward the right IMHO.

I loved McGovern and cast my first vote for him, however there are some parallels between 1972 and now. Watergate happened before the elections and Nixon still won. The Vietnam war was becoming pretty damn unpopular and Nixon still won.

I don't think there is so much of a parallel between Dean and McGovern as much as there is a parallel etween 1972 and 2004. Lot's of folks like me hated Nixon and he still won. A lot of those folks are still out there or their children are out there and they will vote for Bush scandal or not, unpopular war or not.

MzPip
:dem:

[jagguy]

29. yeah, not sure where that moving left comes from

staying pretty steady in the middle of the road with a little bit of a lean to the right.

[BigBigBear]

27. I'm not being brainwashed

by anyone.

I like Dean and I like his message. He's right, he's straightforward, and he's leading because of these qualities.

(Also, I might add, because candidates for president who do NOT have a congressional record to run on or from have an immediate advantage.)

I do not, in my heart of hearts, feel like Dean can ignite the middle of America right now. Granted, I expect most of the middle isn't paying attention yet. But it's not because Dean is "too far left".

I like and respect most of your posts, TIA...but please do not insult early skeptics by accusing them of being Rovebots.

[Northwind]

30. With due respect

I do not think he is really saying that early skeptics are brainwashed, I think he is more speaking to the people who start 18 threads every day bashing Dean and calling him unelectable.

But I could be wrong.

[workersunite]

33. Dean will take the party down

I will support him if he wins the nomination, but I hope to God he doesn't.