A Vote against Bush is a Vote for Osama

[Bonhomme Richard]

You know they are going to play this card big time. If we don't re-select bush the terrorist will have won. I have already heard it mentioned a number of times on both TV and radio regarding Spain. Rove won't pass this one up I guarantee and it appears the media is already onboard.

[BeyondGeography]

1. And the capture of Sadaam has made Spain safer

eom

[rockymountaindem]

2. I'd like to look Bush* in the eye

and say (in my best Barry White voice), "If lovin' you is wrong, then I don't wanna be right"...

[tandot]

3. cnn poll regarding Spain election

CNN already has a poll out with the following question:

"Are the election results in Spain a victory for terrorists?"

70% answered yes the last time I checked

Most people from Spain were against the Iraq war from the beginning. Now the media portrays them as supporter of terrorists because they voted their conscience?

[tjwash]

6. That poll captures the essence of...

ugly american nationalism very well.

[ant]

8. actually

First, let me say that I totally agree the framing of this issue implies a vote against Bush is a vote for Osama. You have to be kind of dumb to believe that interpretation, but most people are dumb, so I agree with the basics of what you and others have said.

HOWEVER, if the documents CNN talked about are legit, the fact is the election in Spain IS a victory for Al-Q. It makes sense that they would strike Spain in an effort to break their alliance with the US, as punishment for their support of US policies, etc. Given that, the fact that the people of Spain voted as they did means they did exactly what the terrorists wanted them to.

Another HOWEVER, just because people have the same goals does not mean their motives or reasoning are the same. The people of Spain wanted a change in government because they did not feel their leaders were acting wisely in the war on terrorism. I agree with them, and I'm happy with the election results. Just because Al-Q might be happy with those results as well does NOT mean that I or the people of Spain support or sympathize with terrorists in any way. That conclusion, which I do think is a possible interpretation of the way CNN presents the question, does not automatically follow.

So the short version of my point is that yes, actually, the election in Spain IS a victory for the terrorists, but that doesn't really mean anything. At least, it certainly doesn't mean what the Bush admin would like us to believe it means.

[slor]

9. 99% of the Spanish people...

were opposed to the war, this is simply a reflection of that!

[ant]

17. not totally

If 99% of the people opposed the war, and this election was a reflection of that, why didn't the Socialists have a 99% showing in the polls before the attacks?

From what I've read the election results were an upset, so I do think it's fair to say the attack influenced some people. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though. The attacks made the consequences of the U.S.' reckless foreign policy all too real to them. I can completely see how voters, especially undecideds, might've taken the attacks as definitive proof that their government was screwing up, bringing back all those anti-war arguments. I think this is a completely legitimate rational for people in Spain voting as they did.

Again, though, I don't think any of the above is inconsistent with the idea that Al-Q wanted to influence the election in order to break up the "coalition of the willing." These two things are not mutually exclusive.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. I doubt these documents are written

by actual Arabs but I have a pretty good idea of where some of this is coming from.

Jeremy Reynalds is back right on cue with his penpal self-proclaimed al Qaeda operative Daleel Almojahid, who he claims is one of the main people writing these letters. However, I posted a few threads back around the holiday's documenting Reynalds role in the Orange Alert with his disinformation and how Daleel Almojahid is probably a creation of Jeremy Reynalds. Now he's back, gee what a surprise?



Bush Country

Al Qaida "Operative" Says Ignoring Terrorist Demands Produced Spain's

03/13/04

In an e-mail titled "Our job is done" and sent to his Yahoo group, self-proclaimed al Qaeda operative Daleel Almojahid bragged that the explosions (killed) "two birds with one stone" and were "a blessed strike into Spain (the death trains)."

The letter sent to Al-Quds also referred to an imminent attack in its final stages of preparation. Reuters reported that a portion of the letter read "We bring the good news to Muslims of the world that the expected ?Winds of Black Death' strike against America is now in its final stage... 90 percent (ready) and God willing near."

Apparently referring to that threatened strike, Almojahid also commented "The rest is coming."

yada, yada, yada.....

[ant]

23. it still makes sense, though

It makes strategic sense for Al-Q to want to break up the US-Spanish alliance. The withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq is bad for the U.S., which means it's good for the insurgents no matter who they're working for. It also makes sense in terms of "punishing" Spain for their support of US policies. This was a strike against the US as much as it was against Spain.

Again, though, I think people in Spain (and elsewhere in Europe) don't want to support US policies because those policies are reckless and counterproductive, not because the terrorists have scared them into submission or any such nonsense.

[ewagner]

4. It's being spun hard

on Faux and CNN is falling right in line.........

[Pale_Rider]

5. Turn it around ...

A Vote for Bush is a Vote for Osama! Bush badly needs Osama.

[Bonhomme Richard]

7. If something like this had to happen then......

I am glad it happened early in the campaign. Hopefully it will run it's course rapidly and lose steam.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. They must be desperate

to have played this card so soon. I think the reaction to the attacks in Spain really blindsided Bu$h & the gang. They thought the Spaniards would just be cooperative little sheeple after being attacked.

[Octafish]

10. Bin Ladens Invested in Bush's HARKEN

Bust the BFEE and spread the Truth. Behold how:

QUESTIONABLE TIES

Tracking bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas

by Wayne Madsen

On September 24, President George W. Bush appeared at a press conference in the White House Rose Garden to announce a crackdown on the financial networks of terrorists and those who support them. “U.S. banks that have assets of these groups or individuals must freeze their accounts,” Bush declared. “And U.S. citizens or businesses are prohibited from doing business with them.”

But the president, who is now enjoying an astounding 92 percent approval rating, hasn’t always practiced what he is now preaching: Bush’s own businesses were once tied to financial figures in Saudi Arabia who currently support bin Laden.

In 1979, Bush’s first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Laden’s, in Arbusto.

In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the ’80s in what has been called the “largest bank fraud in world financial history” by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. During the ’80s, BCCI also acted as a main conduit for laundering money intended for clandestine CIA activities, ranging from financial support to the Afghan mujahedin to paying intermediaries in the Iran-Contra affair.

CONTINUED...

http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/25/25/feature3.shtml

[HydroAddict]

11. It's retarded argument.

What does al Qeada really want?

They want us to get out of the Middle East. UBL is not trying to "win" any election. Money and power are not his thing. For some reason, the wing-nuts think al Qeada won't stop until we're all wearing turbans and burqas.

If leaving them the hell alone means I'm "bowing down to the terrorists", this atheist will be happy to don some kneepads.

I'm still not quite sure of Kerry's take on all this.

[info being]

21. Do we really have any idea what al Qeada wants?

I don't.

[nostamj]

12. long before Spain

they were going to push the concept:

a vote AGAINST the insipid chimp is unpatriotic
a vote AGAINST the insipid chimp is blasphemy

this is not a surprise.

they insult the Spanish voters by suggesting they voted out of FEAR
when the truth is that they voted in ANGER

in the same way, they try to dismiss the Dem's as running on ANGER
because they don't/can't address the genuine reasons for that ANGER

[Guaranteed]

13. God dammit

Kerry needs to get out in front of this NOW. If he doesn't, he will LOSE.

Now let's see some LEADERSHIP, Kerry, God DAMMIT.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

20. That's not the problem, though.

The problem is that the media is being allowed to equate Iraq with the war on terror. When they blur the distinction, people who were or are against the Iraq war look soft on terror. They can NOT be allowed to do this. As our party's leader, Kerry needs to do something about that NOW.

[Bonhomme Richard]

14. It doesn't really matter who "won"

The bottom line is that the Pugs and the media are going to feed the propaganda machine and aim it at the independents. They will use both fear and pride to move the debate toward terrorism exclusively. They have to. There is nothing else bush can run on.
I think we need to push the notion that shrub diverted resources away from fighting terror in order to concentrate on Iraq therefore making the world a less secure place.

[seabeyond]

15. a vote against bush is a capture of bin laden

doesnt work if bush has him on ice

[proud patriot]

18. bush did the one thing osama wanted , he pulled U.S. troops out of SA

bush is an appeaser to terrorists :

He lacks the foresight to make wise long descisions
about the security of the nation. He get's distracted
easily and is too easily swayed by his advisors .