Your favorite sleazy Democrat

[WillyBrandt]

We may not be the Republicans, but we've got a lot of characters in our ranks. Which Democrat is pretty dubious, but liked by you nontheless?

I'm absolutely going with Toricelli. Having lived in NJ, I was pissed off when they switched him with Lautenberg for Senate: I would never have the chance to vote for the Torch.

I know all the bad things about him, but it never bothered me.

And I've got some affection for Traficant.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

1. hey, I like Bill Richardson

however, this is not the type of thread I would expect to read here.

[fujiyama]

2. No question about it...

James Trafficant!

Just thinking of his name makes me laugh -- "Beam me up", Janet Reno is after me!

LOL

[Dookus]

3. I found Traficant highly amusing

but his politics weren't much to crow about. Toricelli at least was a decent politician.

Barney Frank is my all time favorite sleazy Dem, but he's cleaned up his act in recent years. Dan Rosenkowski was another one I loved.

Locally, here in California, we had Willie Brown, who was the bees-knees of crooked Democrats. He was awesome.

I also had the privilege of living in Albany, NY during the final years of the reign of Mayor Erastus Corning, who was the last of the old-time depression-era Democratic machine bosses. And this was in the early 80's. He had run that city so tightly for decades that one could only be impressed.

[WillyBrandt]

6. What's the story behind Brown and Corning?

I don't know anything about SF politics? What's Brown famous for?

And more detail on this Corning guy...

Frank--what happened with him--he paid for fun or something?

[Dookus]

10. Willie Brown

was the speaker of the California Assembly for years, and did it the old time arm-twisting way. He took money from anybody and everybody and even managed to remain speaker under a Republican Assembly. He had the goods on everyone. He knew how to use power.


Erastus Corning was just a master. He assured his longevity during the depression by handing out patronage jobs to everybody who needed one. He'd give two part-time public jobs to two folks instead of one full-time job because it meant an extra vote.

For decades, his ward bosses would stand outside polling place and hand out five dollar bills to voters. It was a total political machine, the last surviving one in the country, and it remained one until his death.

I worked as a community organizer in the poor parts of Albany in the early '80's and even then, people adored Corning. He understood how to use power not only for his own benefit, but to help people. Imagine Spencer Tracey in the Last Hurrah.

[WillyBrandt]

11. Have you read Up From Conservatism

by William Lind?

I think you'd like it. It details how Democratic and working class politics went into decline partly because Dems became too good and nice to do machine politicking. (And much more--a complicated, but a book I recommend in the highest, highest terms)

What was special about WB in SF, tho? Wasn't he a crook there, too?

[Dookus]

31. I haven't read that...

but I'll go buy it tomorrow. Sounds fascinating. That's an issue I've thought a lot about, but don't enough knowledge to draw a firm conclusion. Machine politics seemed to do a LOT for a lot of people, but there's no denying it was corrupt and a lot of people were also hurt.

I think WB in SF was less "sleazy" than in Sacramento. He had decades in Sac to learn everything about everybody and knew how to use it. In SF, it was a much smaller scale, much less money at stake, and generally a city council that was much younger and inexperienced than the old time Sacramento folks. He still played tough and worked every angle, but he really shone as the speaker, and only left due to term limits.

[WillyBrandt]

37. Highly, highly, highly recommend it

The guy was a former neoconservative-cum-liberal. Challenging on a number of levels; steps outside the normal boundaries of debate.

[rwenos]

33. Willie Brown's No Crook --- Too Smart

The Reagan Justice Dept. ran a sting in Sacramento in the mid-80's, when Willie was Speaker. They were SURE Willie was on the take, and it just needed some creative offer-and-acceptance to prove it.

Only problem: Willie stayed Speaker, didn't take the bait, and about a quarter of the Legislature went to Club Fed.

Very annoying, a kingmaker who doesn't take money, eh? And VERY inconvenient to the Pubbies that he was Black, smart, glib and dressed better than they did.

[Dookus]

38. exactly

he wasn't a crook, but only because he was too smart to get trapped. He was a rough-player, though - the kind we need more of.

[rwenos]

47. Someone's Gotta Do the Kneecapping

Conservatives understand this. I don't know why we Dem's don't. Clinton had Ron Brown do it. Does Kerry have someone who'll "just take care of business?"

I don't know yet. But I know he'll need one to counteract the Rove Boys.

[thebigidea]

4. a friend and I have been writing insane letters to Traficant in prison

he hasn't responded yet. probably for good reason.

[thebigidea]

5. edit - dupe

goddamn doubleposting!

Speaking of Traficant - gawd, I miss his CSPAN performances. Some surreal shit - I vaguely remember him threatening to bust out of jail "like a gladiator" and stab people in the crotch with his sword.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. Zell Miller, hands down.

[Syrinx]

8. Al Sharpton

He's pretty sleazy, and yet entertaining.

[WillyBrandt]

9. Good call!

[sir_captain]

15. Meh

I'd like him a lot more if he owned up to his role in the Tawana Brawley business. But he sure is entertaining.

[ulTRAX]

82. Tawanna Brawley

I haven't forgotten Sharpton's racist accusations made in defense of Tawanna Brawley... a girl who pretended to have been kidnapped, raped and smeared with feces by some white guys. He's never really apologized even after the girl confessed she made the story up.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

12. Hizzoner Richard M. Daley of Chicago

He learned his lessons well from his father.

[DerBeppo]

18. definitely the dalys

the kennedys thank them every morning for putting jfk in office.

[bluestateguy]

13. Willie Brown

A real man of action. He gets things done. I would rather not know how he gets done the things he gets done.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I know how he gets things done

watched him in action for years when I worked for a lobbyist in Sac...and I agree with your choice for fav.

[WillyBrandt]

23. How did he get things done?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. Mostly by arm twisting

He could play either side of the aisle against the other when he wanted a vote...attach riders....but mostly it was in the bargaining for future issues...he is a very shrewd businessman..there are others stories..but telling them would sacrifice my anonymity...needless to say....the guy knew every trick in the book and did a great job as assembly leader.

[Dookus]

27. heheh

Yup... as I said above, Willie's one of my faves, too.

Just a genius.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

14. sure

let's have a grand ole party time cutting down dems.

ho ho ho

what side are you on again?

[WillyBrandt]

19. Give me a break

If you haven't noticed, this is an affectionate thread. We are allowed to poke fun at our own side, right?

I'm nearing $1000 donated to Dem causes as well as many hours, so I've got my bona fides.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

24. maybe

but look at the responses. I don't see tearing down dems as "affectionate"

I don't care if you donated a kidney to Dem causes. This just doesn't come across well on a dem board.

Of course, I have been wrong before! pay no mind to me! I only read and extrapolate meanings from words.

[WillyBrandt]

26. Please, we're kidding around about our own side

Compare the "tearing down" here with what happens in the forums all the time. This is harmless talking among friends.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

29. okay

but it doesn't come across that way. Can you imagine what free republic would do with this?

I guess I'm getting too serious when it comes to DEGRADING democrats.I should have a better sense of humor about the fact that you are doing the enemy's job for them.

LOL

[WillyBrandt]

32. Degrading Democrats?

Dude, this post will have zero impact on the world.

How is laughing at Traficant or the Torch going to hurt anyone? If we can't speak as Democratic comrades here, and gossip about our own, where can we?

"Doing the enemy's job?" Please. The enemy's got better things to do than scribble down hand-raisings for the Torch.

[sangha]

76. Yes, degrading Dems

What's the matter here? Is there suddenly a shortage of criticism for Dems? Or is it that there is enough fun to be had making fun of Repuke politicians?

This thread is certainly far from a crime, but I do have to question your priorities. Is having some fun the best way to justify your time?

Maybe, instead of doing something that causes no harm, you could so something that actually does some good. Just a suggestion.

[Dookus]

good lord

Just when I think I've seen every lame objection to a thread.....

We're not degrading anyone. We're discussing history (notice that most of the people mentioned here are no longer in power!)

There's nothing wrong with doing so. If it bothers you, hide the thread.

[LeftCoast]

44. I'd like to see them try to have a discussion like this on FR

You couldn't have it there. They'd shut it down in a second. I like to think that's just one of the many things that make DU better than FR.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

50. I've watched many discussions shut down

here because it didn't follow the rules of never saying anything bad about the primary candidates. How is this different? Sure, it's not about candidates, but if you can't speak ill of any of them, then why is it okay on a dem board to speak ill of so many already elected dems?

hypocrisy anyone?

[Dookus]

51. I guarantee

you have NEVER seen a thread shut down here simply because it said something bad about a primary candidate. Perhaps you should hang arouind a little longer before making such blanket statements.

[LeftCoast]

58. The primary rule has been rescinded

[holeinboatoutatsea]

60. I stand corrected

or rather sit corrected.

:)

[sir_captain]

30. The way I see it...

One of the main reasons we're all here on DU is because we don't like the tone of censorship and scare tactics used by Bush and co.

What would be the point of discussion if we all just sung the praises of every democrat constantly? There's nothing wrong with a little objectivity. I don't think anyone here has gone over the line...

[LeftCoast]

46. Welcome to DU sir_captain!

:hi:

[sir_captain]

49. Thanks!

I'm meeting all sorts of interesting people tonight ;-)

[Dookus]

53. Yes, welcome captain!

Anybody who has my favorite director as an avatar is ok by me!

[sir_captain]

55. Heh

Yeah, he's one of the best! I think I like Chaplin and Kubrick even a tiny bit more, but I definitely own more Hitchcock DVDs than of anyone else.

[Dookus]

57. whee!

yer my new best friend! Kubrick is my second favorite, and I'm a huge Chaplin fan, too!

Come to the lounge some time -I'll buy ya a drink :)

[sir_captain]

61. Sounds good

I'll see you there :-)

[sir_captain]

22. Well, we accuse the repubs of being dogmatic all the time...

so I don't see why we need to do it too. Just because a politician is a democrat doesn't mean we shouldn't be honest about them. I don't think there are too many posts on DU praising Zell Miller at the moment, and rightfully so.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

35. this is over the limit of integrity and knowledge

if you folks can't see it, then, have fun eating your own babies.

it's funny!

[WillyBrandt]

39. OK, We're done

[sir_captain]

48. You see now that was over the top...

There was no reason to go in that direction. Can you explain what is wrong with pointing out that Marion Berry was not the most shining example of the politics that we and the Democratic party stand for? Or do you think he was actually a good mayor?

[sangha]

77. What is wrong with it

At best, it does no harm. Shouldn't we aspire to something a little more helpful than that?

[rwenos]

16. Lucky Lyndon, Bar None

Let's face it. It's a great story. An ordinary high school teacher from West Texas marries the richest girl in Texas. He gets elected to Congress. He spends WW2 getting West Texas electrified, for which the people there deify him.

He lies his way into the U.S. Senate in 1948. ("Go ahead. Call the Pubbie candidate a child molester. Make the bastard deny it.")

He busts cojones in the Senate until 1960, when Jack Kennedy needs a big southern state. He plays tiddly-winks with the Mob guys who off Kennedy for screwing up their all-white labor monopoly. Then he takes the oath of office, and Kennedy's autopsy photos are falsified.

Then he decides he can do ANYTHING. War on Poverty, War in Vietnam, Civil Rights Act of 1964.

His Presidency dies in the lobby of the U.S. Embassy, on the first day of the Tet Offensive.

The other guys named here are just pikers compared to old LBJ.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

25. Wasn't LBJ's 1948 Senate race where he got

his nickname "Landslide Lyndon" from? I seem to remember reading something about there being vote fraud in that particular election.

[rwenos]

28. Amen, Brother

Those were the good old days, when the Texas Democrats could do what the Florida Repub's can do now.

Unfortunately, it's nothing new. Just equally disgusting.

But ya gotta Love Lyndon. He gave us the Civil Rights Act, Medicare, Thurgood Marshall, Highway Beautification (actually, that was Lady Bird), and . . . . . PREDAWN VERTICAL INSERTION SURGICAL REACTION STRIKES!

(Early morning B52 raids over North Vietnam, targeting Ho's supply lines.)

It doesn't get any better than that, friends.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

41. Dear God, I forgot about Lady Bird and Highway Beautification.

Those commercials used to crack me up.

Lyndon was big buddies with Brown & Root as well, wasn't he.

[rwenos]

56. How Else Ya Supposed to Get Elected? nm

*

[Doomsayer13]

68. Landslide Lyndon's 87 votes

but it wasn't against a republican, it was against a Democrat in the primary becuase that was back in the days that the south was still single party. Johnson ran against arguably the most popular governor in Texas history - Coke Stevenson - an icon of conservatism who was also known for his no BS honesty. Johnson outspent his opponent rediculously and "bought" some heavily Mexican precincts which functioned very much like communist style elections. Not to say that Johnson was the only person to have done that, previous Senate candidates from Texas were also known to buy those precincts. Stevenson's simple campaign was just no match.

Even with all that, Johnson was down by the end of the day until a mysterious set of ballots were found in which registered voters voted in alphabetical order all for Lyndon Johnson, puting him over the top statewide with 87 votes. Johnson carried 95% of that precint, and after slyly winning the judicial battle afterwards became known as Landslide Lyndon, a nickname he came to abhor. It was 87 votes that changed America, becuase he would go onto be the most powerful majority leader in the history of the Senate and one of the most powerful domestic presidents in the history of the United States.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

69. Thanks, Doomsayer 13 for jogging my memory.

I think in the course of time LBJ will be looked back upon in a somewhat favorable light because of what he did domestically, but he can never be forgiven for Vietnam.

[charlie]

59. Beat me to it

LBJ, hands down. Tough sumbitch. Every breathing moment calculated to intimidate, from receiving scheduled appointments seated on the shitter, to crowding an opponent's personal space to tower over them, to openly complaining that his slacks cut his nutsack like barbwire. He and the Kennedy bros are prime examples of sorely missed old-style Dems -- mess with them and they'll fuck you over royally.

[WillyBrandt]

62. "prime examples of sorely missed old-style Dems"

Amen, brother!

[sir_captain]

17. I'm going to have to vote for Marion Berry

That man had some serious chutzpah.

[WillyBrandt]

21. Smoked Crack Got His Job Back!

[Dookus]

34. LOL...

true. That puts him in the Hall of Fame.

[countmyvote4real]

40. Dems who hate to love Dems and why they hate to love them

or should that be, "why they love to hate them?"

What a ridiculous thread.

After careful thought, I was going to say Bill Clinton, but I have to give that honor to you, Willy. The torch over Traficant? You are a real character here.

Affectionately yours.

[WillyBrandt]

42. Say that again

Your post doesn't make sense

I didn't say that Toricelli was better/worse than Traficant. It's just that he was more my favorite--I liked Toricelli, while being fully aware of his, er, human qualities.

[countmyvote4real]

52. I apologize because you used the past tense.

But why would you even want celebrate "our" garbage?

[WillyBrandt]

54. Because I'm human and they're human

And it's fun. And it's actually a bit enlightening--see discussion above about old political bosses and how progress and corruption can become comingled.

[countmyvote4real]

65. Oh right. Stupid human pet tricks.

See, I'm really trying to have a sense of humor.

BTW, my initial response was to your initial response. If you had included the subsequent discussion as part of that content I would probably have moved on to more relevant posts. I took the bait and here I am. My bad. I guess I'll have to finally take advantage of the ignore feature.

Peace.

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[WillyBrandt]

66. OK

Suit yourself. I promise not to try to spoil your threads.

[Dookus]

43. Nonsense

we're not espousing any hatred for Dems here. In fact, we're expressing admiration for how Dems operated (largely) in a time long-gone.

Almost nobody mentioned in this thread is still in power. It's a discussion of history and how the Democratic party operated in a different time.

[WillyBrandt]

45. What's with all the sourpusses tonight?

It's like folks just looking to kill jokes!

[Dookus]

63. just the puritans

They shall always be with us.

[WillyBrandt]

64. The Pure will Always Be With us

[Doomsayer13]

67. Perhaps Jerry Springer

his show just oozes of sleaze, but politically he's very well spoken.

[cmd]

73. Has to be Jerry, Jerry, Jerry

He is absolutely brilliant. Sleaze oozes out of every pore. I would vote for him. I know all his faults.

[DoNotRefill]

70. Chuck Richardson....

City Councilman in Richmond, Virginia, indicted and convicted for distributing Heroin while in office. Locally, he still remains popular. He's famous for being asked about the murder problem in Richmond and saying it was the fact that guns were available, rather than the fact that drug dealers had taken over the city.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

71. Any Old School Louisiana Governor.. or

Who was the Boston Mayor who was Mayor from prison for a while?

[DennisReveni]

72. CLINTON!

Hands down it was Clinton.
Beyond the kinky sex, a cigar ( which he later smoked in front of Hillary) and a rim job, he convinced both Republicans and Democrats he was a liberal.
Then he sold us Hillary as a New Yorker and another Liberal.
The man is the greatest con man to ever live.

[Q]

74. I believe Bush* beats Clinton as 'greatest con man"...

...afterall...he and his fellow sleazebags were able to convince a nation that he was actually qualified to be president. Later...this same sleazebag was able to lie this nation into war and GET AWAY WITH IT. Now that's sleaze.

- But I'm glad you brought up the Clinton witch hunt...because we know things about him that we have no right to know...thanks to the even sleazier Ken Starr.

[DennisReveni]

75. Q

The topic is SLEAZIEST DEMOCRATS.
Nothing to do with Bush.
Although it is nice to see the knee jerk Democratic response to anything related to Clinton.
Reminds me of the Freepers and Bush.
I guess each side has it's own core partisan protection wing.
The difference between Clinton and Bush, is we know the truth about Bush. But the Clinton myth lives on.
Guess who first claimed Clinton was a Republican?
http://www.kellysite.net/modrep.html
Clinton was a disaster for liberals and Democrats because he was a closet Republican and was a major cause of the wealth and income gap that exists today between the rich and middle- and low-income Americans. Voters now identify his economic policies that benefitted investors and the wealthy at the expense of workers—primarily, but not exclusively, NAFTA, WTO and "globalization"—with today's liberals and Democrats. As they say, "Why vote for a Democrat if their economic policies are just as bad as the Republicans."

The Wall Street Journal agreed. From the November 7, 1996 issue:



"We have a great Republican president now."

A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard
Chairman of the Securities Industry
Association and head of Alex Brown, Inc.

"Here we are dead set in the center with a big long leash around President Clinton."

Hardwick Simmons
Prudential Securities Inc.
Chief Executive Officer

According to the biased-conservative-news-media, Clinton was right where Big Business wanted him: in the middle of the road between the Republican right wing of Congress, and the moderate Democrats in Congress.

In other words, The Wall Street Journal and America's right wing have successfully changed our definitions of balance and moderation. Traditional "Eisenhower Republicanism" (Clinton) is now considered moderation, and is almost nonexistent in the Republican party. Traditional "Truman Liberalism" is now considered extremist and is increasingly rare in the Democratic party.

I will leave you with that to gnaw on.

[dryan]

78. sleazy Democrats

We used to have a congressman here in Florida named Robert Sikes. His nickname was "the Hecoon". The man was in congress for 30 plus years. Sikes represented a large rural lower-scale economic district in the Panhandle. He stayed in congress because he brought a lot of growth to the area via armed forces bases (navy and airforce) and he also had a rolodex that must have had the names of 100,000 people in it. He also sent a birthday card, anniversary card, and holiday card to everyone in his district! Okay, so why was he sleazy. Among other things he was able to engineer a zoning ordinance at the entrance to one base that excluded all commercial development except for a bank that he was an officer of. During one election, he had primary opposition. The opponent was a deputy sheriff in Escambia County (Pensacola). Suddenly, a woman in her early 20's came forward and said that during a church sponsored camping trip that the deputy chaperoned he molested her and was the father of her son. The child "strangely" did not look like either of his "parents". The woman gave several press interviews and her "story" appeared in a letter sent out to Democrats. Sikes' daughter was also sleazy. She shot her unfaithful husband several times (reloaded the gun) when she caught him with his girlfriend in a Pensacola restaurant. Then she was wisked away (the husband lived by the way) to a private hospital for stress. She was never charged with assault of attempted murder. I could go on and on.

[WillyBrandt]

79. Winner!

Damn. Did you vote for him? :)

[Yupster]

80. My split vote goes to ...

Richard Croker, Boss Tweed and George Washington Plunkitt. As bosses of Tammany Hall, they pretty much wrote the book on big city political corruption. They started the patronage machine that is still going strong in some cities 150 years later.

Plunkitt was asked what he'd like to see on his tombstone. He retorted ...

George W Plunkitt
He seen his opportunities
and he took them.

[ButterflyBlood]

81. Larry Flynt

he definately proved he actually was a pretty decent person when he bought the rights to the Jessica Lynch photos to keep them from being published.

and compared to *, he's the purest person who's ever lived.