Growing Up Gay

[Occulus]

I don't like to remember much of my childhood.

I was always the one who didn't fit into any social scene, no matter how hard I tried. I'm starting to realize now that it wasn't really my fault, all the teasing and constant verbal jabs, all the laughter directed at me, all the abuse in general, but that didn't make any difference back then. All I knew was that I stuck out like a sore thumb, I didn't really like to do any of the things the other kids my age liked, and really, more than anything, I just ended up wanting to be left alone.

My parents weren't any help at all. My father was gone for weeks at a time very frequently when I was young; he was an electrical engineer at the Fabri-Kal Corp. in Kalamazoo. Later, when I reached middle school, he would leave that job, but by then, there wasn't very much he could do to help, and even so, he certainly didn't try as I remember. I was, and am today, ignorant of many of the things sons usually learn from their fathers.

My mother, on the other hand, was home all the time while I was growing up. Oh, she cooked for us and kept us fed and warm, but for me at least, she was completely emotionally absent. She would tell me that I was getting picked on by the other kids because I wasn't 'like them'; because I didn't like to do the same things, and if I wanted the teasing to stop, well, I should just try doing the same things that the other kinds liked to do, or just suffer their abuse. In other words, it was all my fault, according to her.

Both my mom and dad would tell me, even at the age of seven or eight years old, that I needed to 'deal with it' and 'grow up.' Neither of them, as far as I know, ever did one thing to intervene, to really help, or to even listen to what I was saying about what was going on. They told me to 'ignore them and they'll stop,' so that's what I tried to do. It never stopped, and it only got worse as I progressed into high school.

I didn't know then that I was gay; I had my own suspicions, but denied it as long and hard as I could. My eyes were shut tight, even when I looked in the mirror. I heard people call me 'faggot' on a regular basis from the time I was in fourth or fifth grade right up until I graduated, and it took me until I was seventeen to connect the dots and admit to myself what I was. My mom had told me once, when I was fourteen, that "the only things that would really disappoint me would be for Melissa (my sister) to come home with a black boyfriend or for you to tell me you're gay." That simple, bigoted, hateful statement caused me to be unable to trust her with my suspicions about myself. It would turn out, as well, to be a prudent thing for me to do.

I've posted two other threads about what my mom did to me when she found out, so I won't go into that here. The point to all this is that gay kids, whether they know they are gay or not, face a great deal more abuse growing up than their 'normal' counterparts. They face this abuse from every direction- family, "friends," and even from inside themselves. Gay youths are set up for abuse from the moment they start liking boys rather than girls, and for many of them (including myself), they start to realize it very early on.

What does this kind of social and verbal abuse do to a young and still-developing mind? Even though I had an outlet that I was good at (music), that didn't help at all; no matter how many accomplishments I made in that arena, the people around me tried- tried- to beat me down. Even my own parents were unwilling to do anything at all to help, perhaps because they, too, had their own suspicions about me and decided I deserved it. Their own actions after they found out support that conclusion.

Growing up gay is hard. It's full of social shunning, verbal abuse, parental contempt and neglect, and that darkest beast of all, self-hate. It amazes me that so many people don't understand why gays are "so promiscuous;" that's a coping mechanism. I know when I was nineteen or so that I engaged in a couple of sexually irresponsible incidents, and who knows, maybe that will come back to haunt me someday. To be wanted, desired- those things were what was missing from my life for so many years.

Parents don't want gay kids. They just don't. They and the rest of society teach their children, by and large, that being gay is wrong, they teach that their own kids will be punished if they turn out that way, and that in turn causes those children to taunt and ridicule anyone they even think may be gay.

For my part, I'm not thirty years old yet and I have already a heap of regrets. Sometimes, I feel as if everything went wrong from square one. After all, my biological parents, whom I've never known, gave me up for adoption; in that sense, I've been rejected almost from the day I was born. I know that's a silly thing to say, but it's also technically true.

There are an awful lot of people out there, people like me, who are mere shadows today of what they could have been had they been given a chance. Now, as adults, they (and I) feel we should be equal to everyone else, that we have earned that privilege. We feel that we deserve after the childhoods we all had to some degree that the simple consideration that we can be with who we want and be left alone.

We can't get married, and in some cases, we can't even live together without being murdered for it. Even today, I tell people I don't know that I'm straight, just because that far easier than maybe ending up having to defend your life from a pack of madmen later that night. In many ways, I repress myself, who I am, because I have to.

I doubt I'll ever have as happy a life as a heterosexual would. People just don't like gay people. It's as simple as that. I will always have to work twice as hard, be twice as "nice," fight twice as hard, and for it all, I will only end up in the end hurting twice as much and being hurt twice as often. That's the brutal reality of being gay here and now- people don't want you to be happy. People don't want you to succeed. They don't want to show their kids that gay people can accomplish the same things straight people can, that they can be happy and successful adults, that gay people can be, in a word, 'normal.'

People, by and large, feel that gay people should be punished for their entire lives, until they 'decide' to change; at least, that's always been my experience. Straight people, by and large, think we want to be this way. They couldn't be more wrong, but try telling that to them. I know that's a broad brush, but I've been painted with one of those my whole life.

In sum, gay marriage isn't what people in general are against. Gays is what they're against. Most people would wish us right off the face of the earth if they could, and many would likely do it painfully if they could. The sad fact is that this country just doesn't like us. Most of this nation would prefer we just weren't around. We can't even count on our own families. Heterosexuals' lives are always their own, but for gay people, much of their lives are already decided, and decided against them.

I hear people say that if you don't like America, you should leave. For gays, however, society goes one step further and makes sure we know that we're not wanted in the first place.

Jesus wept.

[mstrsplinter326]

1. I really understand what you're saying but...

Clumping all straights makes as much sense as clumping all gays together. I wouldn't discriminate against you ever, and I am straight(Not that I am perfect or whatever).

I would just say this: Stop feeling sorry and just take back the country. Make ignorant people understand. Rally around other gays. Seek out community and trust. Live in SanFran, Madison (WI) or Bloomington (IN). Attend only open and affirming churches (if you're in Indy: 38th & Franklin - great little church). If you are harassed or even killed, do like MLK - and make sure the Media's there. I know that sound cold, but you've got to help make people feel bad about their intolerance, I know I will.

[noiretextatique]

4. "If you are harassed or even killed, do like MLK

and make sure the Media's there"

i am sure you were trying to be helpful...but this is not exactly useful advice. i can't anticipate when i am going to be harrassed or killed, and make sure to have a news crew standing by...just in case.

you advice is not cold...it's _________________________

i'll leave this blank so as not to break the DU rules.

[mstrsplinter326]

9. ok

I understand. I would just like to see a good strong' in your face peaceful movement similar to the Civil Right movement. That's all I meant.

[noiretextatique]

11. that is happening

which is why the rw targetted gays, in general, and gay marriage, in particular for especial attention during the prelude to the november election. and thanks for clarifying your post.

[mstrsplinter326]

12. I don't want to make this an argument

But I don't see the same support and media attention that MLK and supporters received. I feel a very alive and pulsing ignorance beat right here in the Bible belt - at this rate that ignorance will be forever entrenched.

[noiretextatique]

17. MLK was shot dead on a Memphis balcony

and other people involved in the civil rights movement were murdered. so...let's not pretend that AT THE TIME, there weren't people who were actively working against the civil rights movement...many of them right there in the bible belt. and i might add, the probably STILL hate MLK...and his supporters. frankly...i'm not willing to die to convince some jackass of my humanity.

[dsc]

21. Matthew Shepard

was a martyr and it didn't do a lot of good. Five years later and still no hate crime law. And, bluntly speaking, people know what kind of crap we take. After all, we often take it in public. We are called faggot in front of our classmates. We get beaten up in front of our class mates. Heck, I got called names by my elementary gym teacher. He never used the words fag or queer but he used wuss. The idea that people in straight America have no earthly idea we get abused in schools is absurd.

[foreigncorrespondent]

36. What a thoughtless thing to say.

If you are harassed or even killed, do like MLK - and make sure the Media's there.

Why don't you tell that to the ghosts of Brendan Teena, and Matthew Sheppard, and every single other LGBT person who has been killed in the name of bigotry.

[slinkerwink]

49. hey, the next time a freeper calls me a fucking faggot, I'll make sure

the media is there!

[dsc]

2. wow

Whatever else you were robbed of in childhood, you weren't robbed of an amazing ability to write. I can so relate to what you wrote. I know your story and have to say it made me cry. You are a strong person and I wish you all the best.

[Occulus]

15. I only posted half the story here.

The other two threads I mentioned hold the rest, but they're a bit broken up because I was being emotional while I was writing them.

Thanks for the compliment. :)

[dsc]

22. I remember them well

I am so glad my parents were better than I feared they would be. I felt just as alone as you did in junior high school and high school but when I finally told my parents they were pretty good about it. Sadly, around 1/4 of the time parents behave like yours did. Your birth parents tried to do the right thing. It is sad that your adoptive parents didn't. You deserved better.

[Occulus]

44. Oh, I know my birth parents did the right thing

They were both too young to try to raise a child. That's about all I know about them, though; all my life I've been unable to find them because those records were sealed at their request.

At least, that's what I was led to believe. As it turns out, the records aren't actually sealed; my adoptive parents (specifically mom) misled me into believing that.

I know that's hard to believe, but she did the same kind of thing to my sister; when she was 14, my sis's birthmother sent a letter to our adoptive mom to the effect that she would like to at least find out what kind of kid my sis was. Our adoptive mom waited until just last year to tell my sis that. Melissa, my sister, is now 24 and has three kids of her own.

Both of us tried college, neither of us finished, and we both didn't get a whole lot of financial aid from them or via the schools (because our parents made too much money). My sister had a kid and left school; I got outed by my mom and then7 the punishment started. One of those punishments was maneuvering me into a position where I would have no choice but to drop out.

Sometimes it's hard to believe I've made it this far. :)

[dsc]

47. I can't phatom choosing a child and then doing what they did

Sadly some people just aren't fit to be parents. Even more sadly, many still become parents anyway. I know you will make it through. You deserve it.

[Occulus]

48. I've often had the same thought.

Maybe they just weren't ever meant to be parents.

[FlaGranny]

3. Sad tale.

I don't have anything to say, but wanted you to know I read your post. I wish things were different.

[Occulus]

16. Many of us wish

things were different, but we're vastly outnumbered. I fear I won't live to see myself given all the due consideration so-called 'normal' people are, just because it's such an... icky thing, to soooo many people. Most of the people in power also feel that way, I would wager.

[Rowdyboy]

5. I doubt I would have survived Junior High under the situation

you describe. I would have committed suicide had the hatred been that strong with no support. My dad, like yours, was away (long-haul truck driver) much of the time. My mom, however, was wonderfully loving and supportive as was our extended family (grandparents etc). I had a place where I was loved and respected that I could retreat to. Thank God for that. Still being gay wasn't acceptable.

In junior high I was frequently picked on/punched/verbally abused etc but I only remember one creep calling me faggot. One PE coach had a strong distaste for me and humiliated me at every chance. 35 years later, I still hate that man. I was always the next to last one chosen for teams (there was this one really clunky fat kid who was always last-picked). I hung out by myself until I made a very few friends in high school. Finally in college, I bloomed.

Even when my first attempt at heterosexual sex went down in flames, I still refused to admit it to myself. Seven years later, when ALL my experience was with men, I finally accepted myself.

Told my mom. It hurt her, but it helped the two us, eventually. My dad-that's another story for another day (lets just say every dog has his day and I had mine!)

[Occulus]

19. My closet doors

were ripped off at the hinges and I was- literally- thrown out into the rain with the clothes on my back.

Thank God I stored my bike outside back then. I was even denied my own car, and had to bike into town to an acquaintances house- actually the home of one of the managers of the McD's I was working at at the time.

Why didn't I go to a friend instead, or call on one? Thinking back, it was because I just didn't want to lose anyone else right then. I doubt I would have been able to handle being rejected by a person I thought was a friend immediately after getting the boot; as it was, I was heartbeats away from suicide. If my thoughts had tended further in that direction, I would have lain down in the road and let myself get run over or jumped off the M-89/US-131 overpass. Yes, I considered both, and yes, that's a clue as to where all this happened.

[MuseRider]

6. I watched my brother

grow up just like this. It was so painful for him. He always had me but he prefered to get the hell away as soon as he could. I cried many tears for him. Eventually he was able to talk to me about it comfortably. It is so painful and I am so sorry and if I could scoop you up and make it all better I would. He also had his music and became something of a big shot with it but he always struggled against himself. :hug: from me to you

[youngred]

7. Anyone at all who thinks that being gay is a choice

should read stories like yours. There is no reason anyone would choose all that pain and suffering willingly.

[noiretextatique]

8. thanks for sharing your story

sounds similar to mine in some ways, ans similar to others i've heard. i had to leave a lot behind to leave my life as i want to live it...family, friends, social status, etc. but the great thing is...i found so much more along the way. i pray you have as well :hi:

[hippiegranny]

10. i am very sad for what you have gone through

i too am gay, lesbian actually. however, i didn't "know" when i was young, therefore i was spared all of the pain of growing up thinking i was different. i fell in love with my first girlfriend when i was in my 30's, and for me it was a huge a-ha! things made much more sense and i was able to embrace it all and celebrate it.

that being said, i do know homophobia exists, and i have no doubt that it is much harder to be a gay boy trying to fit in while growing up. realize however, that it is internalized homophobia, the self hatred and shame that tends to project outward and as a result becomes the reality of what is received from others.

i am not saying you can change the basest, most ignorant bottom feeders in the world, but you can affect the lives of decent people by being honest and proud about who you are. after all, if you ACT like your life is something to be ashamed of, people will follow your lead.

as more of us are out and proud, living our lives as functioning, contributing, open and honest members of society; as more of us learn to love ourselves and not hide in shame, things will change. in fact, they already have.

[donco6]

13. Young people are more free to . . .

. . . disparage gays than ever. You can't walk past a group of jr. high kids without hearing "faggot" "queer" as part of their vernacular. Most aren't using it to demean other gay kids, but to demean each other - a kind of "catch-all" putdown. Even in school hallways, you'll hear it called down the rows of lockers, and no one does anything about it. You wouldn't hear n---er or any of those racially-based words, but "faggot" is fair game. I've even heard some of the coaches using it. And, yes, I did say something to them. Probably about as useful as pissing in the wind.

kgfnally is completely correct in saying that the issue isn't about gay marriage - it's just about gays. Those Republicans in the 77% would just as soon see us thrown in the ocean as anything else. We're flotsam and chaff - better off thrown into the fire.

[Skittles]

14. I am an outsider too although I'm not gay

people don't like people who are DIFFERENT. You have to follow the social path set: go to college, get married, have kids. Yet the people I know who did that don't seem very happy although they sure don't mind passing judgement on those who don't.

[kayell]

18. I am so sorry for everything you had to go through

The torture that our society inflicts on young gays is one of our most shameful and not so hidden secrets. :hug:

[LeahMira]

20. Cruelty is NOT destiny...

Sometimes, I feel as if everything went wrong from square one. After all, my biological parents, whom I've never known, gave me up for adoption; in that sense, I've been rejected almost from the day I was born. I know that's a silly thing to say, but it's also technically true.

I was thinking, as I read along, that any person who was adopted could probably write the same sort of post. The particulars may be a little different, but the feelings are pretty much the same.

I was also adopted, and at least I can speak to that area of concern. You were not rejected almost from the day you were born. I could tell you about a birthmother who was held down by two security people and eventually sedated when the social worker came to take away her baby. She wanted that baby desperately. I could tell you about another birthmother who lived on the streets for seven months with her baby and only agreed to relinquish it because she saw how the baby was suffering health-wise. Your mother had no choice. No one would help her as long as she kept you, and no one would help you as long as you were with her. Don't ever believe that you were rejected.

But to my original point... I'd be willing to bet that there isn't one person here that hasn't felt discriminated against at some time or another. Even straight white males sometimes feel "picked on." People who are blondes, people who have a disability, people who are African-Americans, people who are extremely thin... everyone faces prejudice at one time or another in their lives. Your feelings, which essentially come down to feeling shame for even existing on this earth, are feelings that everyone has, albeit some of us more often than others.

I think that's how we are controlled... by separating us out from one another and isolating us in "groups." That's why I sort of insist on using that clumsy phrasing that's such a mouthful... because all of us are people first. I also think that there is one way that we can beat that "grouping" game, and that's by refusing to be isolated, refusing to stand up for someone who is gay because "I'm not gay and I have enough problems of my own and I'm not sure I really like gay people all that much anyhow" ... stuff like that.

In fact, it's because I'm adopted that I do understand at least something of what you are dealing with because you are a person who is gay. Pastor Neimoller had it exactly right. We MUST stick together.

I don't know if you believe there is a reason for everything, and I'm not sure I believe it either. But I do believe that I was adopted and experienced the things I experienced for a reason, and that reason is that my place in life is to do what I can to make sure that those same kinds of things never, ever happen to another person who is adopted. You were born gay because your "mission" is to do what you can to make sure that no one else ever has to go through what you did. And, as the Jewish saying goes, it may not be for me to complete the task, but neither am I excused from taking the first step.

You might want to hook up with the National Coalition Building Institute to get yourself started in a new direction. http://www.ncbi.org/ Their training programs are most excellent! And, if you ever decide to work for adoptee rights, check out http://www.bastards.org/ which I found to be empowering.

Meanwhile, though, I WANT YOU right here on DU. You write beautifully and express your thoughts clearly and simply. Maybe you won't ever know it, but there is at least one person here on DU who is gay and is feeling a little better about himself right now because he knows he's not alone.

:hug:

[Brian_Expat]

23. kgfnally, I have something to say

You are obviously an excellent writer who can communicate beautifully within print. You have incredible worth as a human and it's obviously pushing out making itself noticed to you, even if you're still not fully believing it.

I hope one day that gay kids can grow up in a supportive environment, one where their parents ALWAYS do want them. I was lucky -- I lived with a family that, though conservative, accepted me after a little tough spell and loves me unconditionally (though sometimes require a bit of education on how tough life is).

Everyone who lives through this sort of treatment is a witness who gives testimony that addresses injustice. Everyone who lives his life to his full potential despite these sorts of setbacks is a hero. You are so much more than the average Freeper, who brags about all the "setbacks" he encountered in his comfortable heterosexual world that was custom-made for him.

Some observations:

Will the scars ever disappear? Hard to say, but I say probably not. I certainly have some from my younger years, the physical assaults, the hateful teachers, the severe beatings at the hands of savage gangs of "popular kids" who avoided prosecution because of their social staus. But I have also chosen to "show them" by living my life as best as I can.

Have I stumbled? Sometimes. I've suffered through the bad economy. I've fallen flat on my face a few times. But I am proud of where I've come to since those awkward days. And I opened my heart to others who needed it -- regardless of who they are, supporting them through their trials as best I could. In that moment, I found healing for my own pain over the years.

kgf, you'll grow stronger by not letting "them" win -- by living your life in a place where you can be open and yourself without fear. And by opening your heart and finding love (of all sorts, including that of the love of your life), your tough childhood will soon seem like a distant nightmare. And as someone who is finding true love and growing within it, I can tell you it's an experience so beautiful that I would live through all the hell as a kid all over again, just to have it.

Hugs, brother.

[dsc]

24. Simply beautiful Brian

I am glad you found someone. Good for you.

[Brian_Expat]

27. I'm still working on it dsc. . .

. . . but it's something that I'm happy to be within. It heals a lot of old wounds to have someone to laugh with, hold, support, and grow with. Wish all of us luck in finding and keeping it! It's life's greatest struggle and reward. :)

[dsc]

28. I am rapidly closing in on four years sober

but haven't been to lucky in love. I am hoping to find that soon. The drinking years didn't help and now bars are out, so things are a little rough in that regard.

[Brian_Expat]

30. Aw, what the heck. . .

. . . if you lived in London, I'd give you a try. Smart, liberal and well-spoken, woof! :loveya:

And since I'm so average, there are about 100,000 other guys out there looking for the same thing. Go get 'em, tiger! :evilgrin:

[dsc]

31. thanks

I just have to move to a larger area. This area is so small that the number of gays is pretty miniscule. I know someday though I will make someone a good hubby. I actually am a pretty good cook too. In any case have some fun in England. Hopefully you will have a good country to come back to though that is still in doubt.

[Brian_Expat]

35. Watch out -- the biggest cities are wastelands. . .

. . . especially New York and SF. Try Chicago, St. Louis, Boston, Denver. :)

[dsc]

37. I lived in Chicago for a year

and really liked it there. I just couldn't find a decent job there. Now my parents are in a bad way but are getting better. If nothing works out here Chicago may be where I wind up.

[Occulus]

38. Thank you for the vote of confidence.

It's odd; I've never once been physically assaulted because I'm gay. Everything I dealt with was verbal and psychological. Not that that hurt any less, but I guess I was lucky in that respect.

[Occulus]

41. and thanks also..

Validation means a lot, especially when it comes unlooked-for. I don't like to brag, but I've always had a good grasp on the use of the English language; I was at college-level comprehension by the third grade. I've always wanted to write, but never had the time, being devoted to music instead. Perhaps now that that door seems to be closed, I can concentrate on character development and other elements of fiction I'm relatively inexperienced with. I have a couple ideas for short stories (or perhaps longer than that), and I need to work on getting those on paper.

I often do wonder if the wounds will ever really heal. Some days, it all seems fresh as the day it happened; other days, I just shrug my shoulders and stop thinking about it. I do know that something feels different to me now than was the case even two months ago. What that means, I have yet to discover. Maybe time really does heal all wounds- or at least make them bearable.

[adamblast]

25. Like yourself, I had a very tortured adolescence.

I'm 45 now, and am still shaped, in part, by the things that society can do to a young gay kid. You have my love and empathy. Together we'll make this a better world for the gay kids to come.

[Cleita]

26. Sometimes you have to dump the childhood baggage

so that you can move forward. You know who you are now and that is a big step. Maybe you were fortunate not to have a father that was home that much. I have a gay cousin who not only had a father who pushed his sons into sports including hunting because he said. "I'm not rais'in no nancy boys in his house," but he punished them severely for not doing well. My cousin who was smaller than most boys his age suffered immensely from this both at school and at home.

You can imagine how conflicted he was. Oddly enough it was lesbian whom he had befriended when he was in the Air Force at a literary club on base, who introduced him to the gay community, and helped him come to terms with his sexuality.

Now is the time to say, I'm not taking this anymore. There are many sympathizers out there if you touch base with them.

[Occulus]

40. That's what I'm trying to do.

[dsc]

29. a great show to watch tonight

on NBC tonight. Law and Order SVU has an episode about a former ex gay who gets murdered. It is terrificly done. It fits in very well with the subject of this thread.

[mlawson]

32. If you are able to relocate, there are places to live in where this

problem is almost completely eliminated.

I live in Asheville, NC, which has one of the very highest percapita gay/lesbian populations anywhere, along with hippies and many other 'alternative lifestyle' people. I am gay myself, but most of my friends here are hetero (or 'metro'). No one gives a crap who you sleep with, or date.

I had a difficult childhood as well, in the late 50s to mid 60s. But moving back here has helped tremendously; I am not even conciously aware most of the time what my orientation is, and no one else here cares either.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

33. always the outsider....but maybe not?

Fortunatly I didn suffer too much physical and verbal abuse in high school, or even Jr high that much. And I was in denial about being gay, and pretty much rejected that label.

But this was the 1970s, & I guess I was lucky that I went to a laid-back school with a sort of tolerant vibe going on. I was pretty much an outsider, but had a few oddball friends, and even the "cool kids" where sort of cool about me, too...but, then, I didnt self-ID as gay, nor did very many people peg me that either...dont know...maybe they did, but rarley was it brought up.

Yet i suspect my folks suspected...my dad told me, in the garage one day, that hed beat the shit out of me if he found out I was gay. Well, there went the idea of having them send me to a psychologist or psychiastrist to cure me...besides Id rather they pay for my college than therapy.

And college was pretty much OK too. College was great, actually, even tho I didnt come out there either. I was being graded on stuff I loved to do. There was alot of lonliness and sexual frustration (I was coming to terms wl being gay), but then you just transform it into your work. Pretty much an outsider too..but you had to get along w. your roommate & dorm floor, and w. your classmates and profs. And i had some good times. I guess I was passing as my college elected me their rep to student govt, and student gov selected me as one of two student reps to sit on the university faculty council

But that was before I came out. After I came out I think a rubicon was crossed...a taboo broken. I really did cut myself off from the world.

Nowadays, at work, I feel like im back to square one, feel like the real big outsider. Right now its really difficult to be gay.

I wonder if its just an Ohio thing, or my workplace sort of self-selects the conformists and narrow types. I feel totally, totally alienated now, moreso than when I was in school. Much more despair nowadays then back then.

[Disturbed]

34. What to write...

without sounding corny? My wife and I have 4 children, well they are adults now,two girls, two boys. When one of my daughters was 16 she told us that she was Bi-sexual. My wife and I were somewhat shocked. We asked her how she came upon this notion and she explained that she had feelings for both boys and girls but had not acted upon the girl part. We decided to go to a counselor. My wife and I went and then we went another time with our daughter. We accepted the situation and so did the rest of the family. Now my daughter, at 22, feels that she is a lesbian and has a steady girlfriend. Our family is fine with that. We are proud of all of our kids and our daughter that is lesbian is doing fine, going to college and involved with the Socialist Party USA and other activist situations.

I was moved by the commentary in this thread. Yes, I believe that the Gay Marriage situation is much more than about the issue of marriage. Hopefully, in few years it will be merely another facet of American life and Gay, Lesbians,, Bi, Trans-gender members of our communities will be accepted as full citizens and neighbors by most Americans. We can all help with that. The fact that this topic is here is a step toward full equality.

[Occulus]

39. Here are the two threads

I mentioned in my original message. These were each started a few months ago, and I just thought I'd post links to them both because they each help fill in some gaps in the story. Like I said, I only posted about half of what happened.

I was very emotional when I wrote both of these, so there's likely some illogic in what I wrote. I feel I have a clearer mind for some reason now than I did when I wrote these, and it's my hope that they may provide some perspective and basis for comparison, as well as perhaps an example of how far moods can sing while dealing with demons that really should be long dead and buried.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=386457

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=214115

[smirkymonkey]

42. Reading your post made me so sad...

It was really heartbreaking. All this bigotry makes me absolutely sick. I am straight, but I am so tired of all this right-wing fundie hatred. Tomorrow is the St. Patrick Day's parade in NYC (weather permitting) and they STILL will not allow gays & lesbians to march. (well, you can march, as long as you don't let anyone know you are "gay").

Our IDIOT mayor (Bloomberg) is marching and is defending the rights of the parade organizers to exclude whom they see fit. I have always seen NYC as a haven for liberal causes and marginalized groups, but then you hear about something like this and it just disgusts you.

I hope you can find some peace in your heart, but I know it's getting harder and harder in this world. The important thing is to not internalize society's intolerance toward homosexuals (and it's not all of society - a lot of us feel very supportive to issues of equal rights for GLBT's). Sometimes it helps to get active in fighting against injustice to make one feel less powerless. Take care! :)

[Occulus]

45. It doesn't help that America is so sexually puritan.

And that alone plays a huge part in bigotry toward gays and lesbians in particular and sexual 'deviance' in general. I wish more people would recognise the fluidity of human sexuality. It's not set. Between the two extremes- total heterosecuality (opposite-sex sex only), or complete homosexuality (where I am, same-sex sex only), there are a great many extremes. Human sexuality is simply not black and white, no matter what 'common sense' or the Bible says it 'should' be.

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. Wow...

that about sums it up for me. Now I want to cry...because much of it is true for me as well. I completely understand.

[Occulus]

46. Thanks.

But don't cry. Sneer at the people who did it to me instead; that's about what they deserve.

I've been spending time trying to make that inner voice we all have a positive force for me. I've been trying to tell myself to hold my head high, that I'm here in spite of.

What to do with my life, well, that's another matter. Computer animation holds a lot of potential, and it's something I'm fiercely interested in. Maybe, if I can get back to school, I can give that a shot.