The anti-DU "peopleforchange.net" board just banned a DUer

[nwstrn]

This is the "open" message board that does not require "lockstep" thinking like we do at DU. (i.e. where the Dean folks go to diss Kerry).

"Toil" made the mistake of criticizing Dean and supporting Kerry. The final straw must have been when Toil asked why Dean supporters continue to label Dean a "progressive."

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showforum=25

How do I know Toil was banned? Hmmm . . .

[KuroKensaki]

1. Could be considered trolling. (n/t)

[CrownPrinceBandar]

7. Yes...

it seemed kinda troll-ish to me too. No productive responses from toil.

[mstrsplinter326]

2. I am sorry to see that

I am glad we are mostly free to express opinions here, provided we never join the Dark Side.

people should rebuke arguments with arguments rather than ignorance

[lutton]

3. ?

Dean a progressive? I'm a Dean supporter, but I never really considered him a progressive. Weird.

[terryg11]

4. what kind of site is it?

lefty/democratic or more of a neutral site? nevr been there

[fishnfla]

9. Look in GD2004

The first, biggest, locked thread you can find(300+ replies)

[Walt Starr]

5. IS this really appropriate here?

Seriously, why would you want to bring this crap to DU?

[outinforce]

6. "Lockstep"?

I have never considered DU to "require lockstep thinking".

You might want to visit a few more threads before you say such a thing.

Experience the wide diversity of opinions and views here on DU.

"Lockstep"?

Balderdash!

[nwstrn]

11. I agree with you

Sorry, the sarcasm didn't come through properly.

[ScottInFlorida]

139. I respectfully disagree with you, outinforce...

Actually, as stated right in the long version of the forum rules you will see, "We ban conservative disruptor's who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned."

It looks clear to me that a wide diversity of opinion is hardly rewarded here and I think it would likely land you in banned land. Of course that is the moderator's right, it's their board and they can do what they want.

But please, don't call this board open, it ain't even close.

Regards,

S>

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishnfla]

13. I've seen the site Julie

what if they gave a circle jerk and nobody came?
kinda reminds me of that :)

[JNelson6563]

31. you must be thinking of GD2004

:-)

[sangh0]

185. Not really

GDP2004 actually has some nice things to say about some Democrats who are not named Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich

[Northwind]

10. You were trolling

You want to keep posting then add something to the discussion instead of just derailing threads and being a dink.

I invite everyone here to visit the Presidential Election 2004 forum and see what he wa really doing, snce he cannot seem to tell the truth about it himself.

After you see what PFC is really all about, register and join in!

NW

And don't forget your PFC Gear http://www.cafeshops.com/peopleforchange

[nwstrn]

14. Hi, Northwind!

I knew you'd be back at DU. Why is it trolling to challenge Dean and make statements in support of Kerry? I thought it wasn't a Dean message board.

[LoZoccolo]

15. I don't see a statement in support of Kerry on the other board.

Really, I don't.

[slinkerwink]

17. because you weren't there to help us focus on congressional Dem races

and you clearly stated you were there to disrupt and you never said you were from DU.

[regnaD kciN]

90. A question to the DU faithful...

you clearly stated you were there to disrupt

If someone came on here explicitly stating that they were here to disrupt, and tried to interfere in every thread, saying the same thing over and over again and not responding to replies (in other words, not seeking dialogue, but rather monologue), how long do you seriously think they'd last here?

And, when the inevitable tombstoning happened, would that be "proof" that DU practices censorship and demands lockstep thinking?

[Capn Sunshine]

24. Trolling is intentionally acting as a disruptor

and were you to do that here , Dean or no Dean you'd be tombstoned.
Maybe Skinner has to suffer fools because he's for profit, and god bless him for keeping the freaks off the streets, but making a stink about childish beavior on another BB at DU qualifies at disruptive in MY book.

Why subject DUers to your whining and crying? Why not post something relevant to DU? Just stay the F out of places where you intentionally seek to cause trouble. Is that so much to ask?

Sheesh.

[nwstrn]

54. "Just stay the F out of places where

you intentionally seek to cause trouble"

Well, I've already been banned at your site. But your message may be applicable to some of the posters on this thread and DU . . .

[Exgeneral]

292. nice comeback

what does it mean exactly? I think the Capn has a point.
I've NEVER seen a BB that allows people to cpmplain about treatment elsewhere.

Very egalitarian of DU to allow this open-mike critique of another place.

Say, that Kos is one mean sob sometimes......

[LoZoccolo]

12. That could be considered continuing from another thread...

...which is one of the more ingenious rules at DU as far as keeping the commons un-abused, and may have been used there. The post clearly quotes something from another thread. Of course, this entire thread is a continuation of something from an entire other website, and might very well get locked too.

[nwstrn]

16. OK

Since I don't have much time, I'll just say that anyone who asks questions such as "where will Dean campaign for Kerry" will get a good laugh.

[madfloridian]

18. I gave you a very good answer.

There were nice answers there. This is a shame for you to do this.

[trumad]

20. Pretenders

Like I said in the last thread.. These guy's pretend to be open to any discussions but they are not... Face it..if they want to keep the forum from imploding someones got to have a heavy hand..Unfortunatly, those with the heavy hand at that site are anti-Kerry.

[PeopleForChange]

21. Excuse me. We welcome everyone in PFC

Even those who support Kerry. That's why we have spirited discussions and debate on why we should support Kerry. That's not anti-Kerry at all, but rather revealations on how skeptical we are on Kerry's chances. Unfortunately, unlike you, we don't march in lockstep when we are told. We just want to make sure that we are fairly represented and that's what PFC is all about.

We KNOW we have to support Kerry in the general elections -- that is a given, but does Kerry have the chance to win? That is our question.

Power to the people!

PFC

[nwstrn]

26. "We welcome everyone in PFC"

Please! There's no room there for Democrats who support Kerry. Many of the posts could have come straight from the freeper boards.

[slinkerwink]

29. you clearly were there to troll, and said so---we have the right to

disable the account of anyone who says that they are there to disrupt.

[nwstrn]

33. I never said I was there to disrupt

I said I would continue to state my dislike for Dean and my support for Kerry until I was banned. I was banned about 10 minutes after that post.

[slinkerwink]

37. it's funny because you said you liked Dean, and now you disliked him

*shakes head* that was blatant trolling, dear.

[WoodrowFan]

39. lots of folks

lots of folks liked Dean then grew to dislike him, that's why he losat the primaries after leading in the polls.


(and I agree, he was trolling)

[slinkerwink]

41. yes, and he said that he still liked Dean and then did a sudden shift

heh, the actions of a troll amuse me. ;-)

[WoodrowFan]

52. maybe..

maybe he changed his mind really, really fast!! :P

[Terran]

182. Just wondering...

I've never even heard of P4C before, but is this statement by nwstrn true or not:

There's no room there for Democrats who support Kerry. Many of the posts could have come straight from the freeper boards.

If it's a Dean-centric board, perhaps you should just state that up front.

[Nazgul35]

315. One would actually have to have an account...

in which to be disabled...

If you all look at the thread in question, he is unregistered....which is the most likely reason why you got banned....

Also, there is a poster there calling himself skinner....I certainly hope that the people here who have this and other account names that are being created over at PFC are pleased with the attitudes being expressed by people posing as them....

Got a big enough problem with sock puppets, now we have people outright stealing well known IDs to stir up trouble....

I also have to say, as a member of BartCop, DU and PFC, this is one of the silliest arguments I have seen to date....guess people got tired of picking on 'ol Bart....

[PeopleForChange]

32. There IS room for Kerry supporters

You just don't want to admit it. We KNOW we have to support Kerry one way or another. We just need our reasons WHY. Some of us don't want to march in lockstep for Kerry. Some of us will not finance Kerry because he's making us PAY for his mortgage loans when he should be paying for it himself. We know about Kerry's dirty tricks. We know who is who in Kerry's behind-the-scenes campaign. We just need to figure out a way to support Kerry in a different way, like supporting Jeff Seemann for the 16th District of Ohio or Mike Miles for Senate in Colorado. These are like-minded candidates that represents the people who wants change in America today.

Ever sit and think about it?

Probably not.

Power to the people!

PFC

[nwstrn]

35. "We know about Kerry's dirty tricks."

Who's the troll?

[paulk]

91. How is supporting Mike Miles in CO helping Kerry?

Ken Salazar will be the Democratic nominee.

[sangh0]

137. HOw is post #32 support for Kerry?

Some of us don't want to march in lockstep for Kerry. Some of us will not finance Kerry because he's making us PAY for his mortgage loans when he should be paying for it himself. We know about Kerry's dirty tricks. We know who is who in Kerry's behind-the-scenes campaign

Yeah, that's support! Am I supposed to believe what you say now?

[madfloridian]

153. Are you saying that people at other forums can't criticize Kerry either?

Oh my goodness.

[sangh0]

186. HOw is post #32 support for Kerry?

Answer the question, if you can.

[madfloridian]

245. It does not need to do so.

It is not a Kerry forum.

[Nazgul35]

316. You're not serious are you?

Support for Kerry and Kerry supporters are two mutually exclusive concepts....

People who support Kerry are allowed to join and participate....but this does not mean that all people who join will support Kerry...hence the openness point being raised throughout this thread...

:shrug:

[NoPasaran]

49. Your statement is incorrect

I post on P4C as a Dean Person for Kerry. Nothing bad has happened to me.

And I couldn't help noticing that the alleged troll was not interested in responding to me, only carrying on pointless tit-for-tat arguments with the posters who really, really dislike Kerry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. Not with the likes of Scott Lee penning terms like Botox Boy

Thanks for providing people who like to shoot themselves in the foot with a place where they can do so and get high fived for their fucking moronic prozac induced hysteria.

Kerry is getting Al GORED from the left just like Counterpunch did with the Love Canal story...thanks for helping...you make a fucking difference.

This was exactly what concerned me about Dean. It's one thing to tap into the anger of voters that are sane..it's quite another to tap into the anger of those that are certifiably nuts.

[CWebster]

58. Seems like you are always appearing on these attack threads

to spread your blanket of bile, but when you are called on it you always back away and feign civility.

It is perfectly understandable why many Dean supporters felt unwelcome or ostracized -- especially when DU, which calls itself "progressive" was willing to host threads sponsoring organizations whose sole intent was to destroy Dean. What happened to Dean happened to us.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. I don't feign civility with people who are my ideological enemies

I simply attempt though poorly to practice it so my posts won't get removed.

Some Dean supporters no longer feel welcome...if that MANY supporters no longer feel welcome then GOLLY GOSH...maybe a little soul searching on THEIR part is in order...maybe the whole world isn't really out to get them...maybe they WON NOBODY OVER BUT THEMSELVES.

What happened to Dean happened to you and like Dean you seem to take nor responsibility as to how a frontrunner with MORE MONEY than any candidate could completely blow his whole fucking campaign in a matter of days after the first vote is cast.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

117. Just don't blame anti-Dean bias when your personal attacks are removed

[Guaranteed]

120. All I said was that you're angry.

You did just call us your enemies...didn't you? Aren't you angry at your enemies?

On edit: And as if calling someone your enemy isn't a personal attack?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Did I mention your name in that post?

I think one can have an ideological enemy and not be angry...it is simply acknowledging what is so and there is no emotion involved in what is so.

Someone can claim they are dedicated to progressive causes all they want but when their actions in the critical moment upon which all progress is dependent speak otherwise, then it is my right to see them for what they are...spoilers who are completely out to undermine what they claim to support.

[Guaranteed]

133. I'm a Dean supporter.

You said Dean supporters are your ideological enemies. That's a personal attack.

And, since you're now calling me a "spoiler" (yet another personal attack), could you tell me exactly how and what I'm spoiling?

On edit: "I think one can have an ideological enemy and not be angry...it is simply acknowledging what is so and there is no emotion involved in what is so."- and that's just garbage. LOL

If you weren't angry at your "enemy," you'd simply disagree with them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

146. No I didn't say that. I think you are seeing what you want to see

I didn't call you anything but I find it interesting that anything that is said about Dean is personalized as though it is said about you.

[Guaranteed]

151. Are you feigning civility now? nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

161. yes

[Guaranteed]

165. I thought you didn't do that. nt

[RetroLounge]

216. spoilers?

Sorry to spoil your day...

RL

[sangh0]

222. Wow, such brilliance!!!

It must have taken a lot of work and creativity to find the one word you could make a joke out of.

[CWebster]

209. Please

what is your beef?

Chances are most progressives will vote for Kerry---what choice do we have? But let us not kid ourselves that Kerry is anything more than a lesser of two evils-- a staid, conventional, exemplar of the privileged class. Am I disappointed? I would be lying if I expressed otherwise. I am resigned to how the game is played - don't expect celebration, it is a crappy compromise. But still there is hope--alternatives that continue to inform the debate, while the empty suits play the roles. If alternative sites crop up as a result of that embrace of the status quo, why should it ruffle your feathers? You are Gay, how do you feel when Kerry disdains your position in the pecking order? For that matter, Dean is no great progressive, but I prefer his character to Kerry's.

There are those new to the game, energized by the effort to beat Bush, but their grasp is uninformed and superficial. You know better. There were times in the past when you and I were on the same side, and I recall a word of encouragement you sent in our common views against those who voiced contempt for the poor.

Lately I am pressed for time, but I did want to take this chance to invite you to PFC just so we could share some common ground without either of us made to feel that we are being hounded. If EVERY SINGLE regular DUer who supported Dean found it to be the common experience then perhaps it isn't our imagination, eh?

For the end of this message, check your pm.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

232. " Dean is no great progressive, but I prefer his character to Kerry's"

Probably the truest statement in the post. Dean is no great progressive and his support from many is largely based on subjective interpretations of character.

I am for the guy that investigated and promotes OPEN government, rather than the guy that promotes open government as long as it isn't his own gubernatorial papers.

I suppose you like his character because he is a doctor that follows the hypocratic oath : First DO NO HARM...oh wait...he doesn't follow that.

I do not feel Kerry expresses disdain for gays. I am clear he has been a friend to the gay community for decades. I know the marriage issue is a hot button issue and know that he supports gay people receiving the rights inherent in marriage whether it is called that or not.

It's a compromise I as a gay person am willing to make for the short term greater good.

I am still an advocate of the poor and specifically the disabled. That is why I get a bit miffed at progressives that would do ANYTHING to make things worse for them.

It happened in my state. People believed Camejo and left leaners signed the petition to put the recall on the ballot...the POOR in California will now suffer for what some college kid thought was a righteous act of liberalism.

I empathize with the poor more than you can imagine.

I've shared the common ground with you here and I have no desire to participate at PFC. Thanks for the invite, but it really isn't my cup of tea...I read plenty of threads there in the last two days. Some are fine and enlightening...others are not.

There is quite a bit of slamming of DU on that board, I saw it fr myself.

If I wish to slam DU..I'll drop a note in Skinner's inbox where it might just matter.

[KoKo]

251. Oh...give me a break here. When was I ever your "feigned enemy."

I have no idea what you are talking about!

[KoKo]

249. I have to agree with this. NSMA and I've never had major differences until

lately where there seems to be some kind of disconnect? What is going wrong here. It's like "stalkers." NSMA and Sangho/Sangha who feel that there are some DU'ers whom they must constantly "tail" in fear that we will steal goodies from them or something. It's really pissing me off.

[KoKo]

247. Geeze this is the forth thread calling out "Scott Lee!" WTF is wrong with

this poster that doesn't suit you guys/gals whatever? Please PM me if you want to be discreet about this! I don't see a problem with this person until Pitt started freaking out that he had "trashed Pitt's good name or something."

I've never had this person Scott on "ignore," so WTF is the problem here? :nuke:

[Catholic Sensation]

258. uh...

how about his vehement refusal to admit he was wrong? The fact he was almost relentless in his pursuit to ruin the name of every democrat not named "Howard Dean"? How about his continued effort to pursue stories about John Kerry which were debunked days, if not weeks, beforehand (i.e. John Kerry going to drill in ANWR because James Hoffa jr. made an OBVIOUS joke about it).

Scott Lee started flame wars and seemed to enjoy doing so. His posts were worthless, and from what I've read over there from him, their value hasn't grown.

[KoKo]

267. That's just it. You all lost your sense of humor, here! Botox Boy is

Funny? Why Not? Doesn't mean I won't vote for him. But it also means I can laugh at the fact that Theresa was smart enough to get on John's but and tell him he needed some facial help because he wasn't doing well in the polls against Dean.

So.....another humor is: Turns out Kerry didn't need the Botox because Dean wasn't getting the votes in Iowa/NH that he needed.

Those of us with a sense of humor left after the crap we've lived through for the last 6 years (Clenis Impeach on through Gore) are lucky that we actually CAN FIND some HUMOR SOMEWHERE!

FGS! Give us a BREAK HERE!!!

[seaglass]

306. Well, how come Dean supporters didn't have a sense of humor

when people accused them of drinking Kool-Aid? Did you think it was funny? I did.

Isn't it odd how humor works.

[trumad]

38. Not Anti-Kerry... That's just a flat out lie

You can't go two feet in your stink ass forum without running into A-Hole's like Scott Lee, code name D, etc, shooting off their dumb ass mouths... Plus you got er..slinkerwink threatening to ban folks...now that's a Laugh out Loud riot...

Dude...if you want any respect then clean your fucking house before you come in saying how great it smells....

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5116&st=0

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5516&st=0

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5504

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5321

[Zomby Woof]

199. you know, trumad

We've never been the closest of DUers, but I have to say, I have never agreed with a post of yours more than I have now. :thumbsup:

[edzontar]

148. Are you calling me a freeper because I also post there?

I am a Democrat. I post at DU. I donate to DU.

Isn't calling me a freeper against the rules?

[KoKo]

303. Well, then they're calling me a Freeper, too. I donate to DU and signed

up for the other site.

Must be some very threatened folks here to start two threads in 24 hours trashing folks who "cross-post," and have donated $$$$'s to DU.

It's disgusting...imho!

[PeopleForChange]

19. Speaking as a representative of PFC

Toil has his posting privelege (note: he wasn't even banned) revoked due to a violation of the following rule:

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?act=boardrules

2. Disrupting and trolling are not welcome and will be banned, including those who repeatedly hijack or derail discussions by introducting off-topic subject matter.

Yes, we do take our trolls very seriously. It was our first too.

[nwstrn]

22. Since I wasn't banned

can I come back if I promise to never, ever make a negative statement about Dean again?

[PeopleForChange]

23. email the admins there

there. Maybe you have a chance, I don't know. It doesn't matter if you are negative with Dean, but the problem is you kept ignoring other people's statement and continued to troll with off-topic subjects.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

42. you can laugh at that all you want

:shrug: besides, that person was banned for clearly being a troll. Nothing conflicting with that, and even other DUers here agree with me that he was purposefully trolling.

[trumad]

47. But...but... Scott Lee and code D are OK?

What's the favorite name for Kerry being used by the assholes on that stupid ass forum? "Botox"... Oh but that's OK.... Hey...it's your forum over there and if you want to continue to let fuckheads like Scottie and Code run your discourse then all the power to you.

[Duder]

48. If you don't like it...

Don't go there... duh.

[trumad]

53. What I don't like are two faced idiots...

Using user names that promote this stupid site and using the sig lines for their banners.... Hey..the only reason I went there is to see what they're promoting...

[nwstrn]

57. Agree-we don't allow

signature lines that promote the freeper boards do we?

[SiobhanClancy]

I went there to see what they were promoting,too

Unfortunately,I saw a bit more nastiness(from Scott Lee et al)than I would be comfortable with. I'm sure the goals are worthwhile,but I read a couple of insulting posts about someone I know and respect...and these posts were left up and not challenged,which tells me it isn't my sort of place.

Still,to each their own:)

[Duder]

62. Being bi-boardal may not be for everyone

One could cherry-pick the archives here and label DU an anti-Kerry site.
It may surprise you but you will find a lot of sites particularly those that may have supported other candidates that still aren't convinced that Kerry's the cat's meow. The internet's probably not a good place for those with thin skins and so perhaps you'd feel better by avoiding those little nasties that you find so disagreeable. Unless venting about another website and the people that post there, is some kind of botox therapy.

[madfloridian]

75. So only people you like are supposed to be here or there?

Is that what you are saying? There are people here I don't like, and there are a few there I'd like to tell to hush-up. But it is their right to be there if they obey the rules of the forum....

It is not your decision who posts at either board.

[trumad]

95. I agree

but folks from that site have come in and acted like the site was snow white and wasn't anti Kerry... I'm simply calling you on it.

[madfloridian]

136. You are calling me on it? I did not say anything like that.

It is just a forum like many others. Nicer than some.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

224. No, Mr Lee was just a shit-eating lowlife...

(my apologies to coprophiliacs)

[mzmolly]

233. I resent the blatent bashing of people who can't defend themselves

here.

Mr. Lee is actually an intelligent and humerous guy who added alot to DU. He happens not to dig John Kerry...big friggin deal.

Adding AWD does not deserve the attacks by a phony former member of DeanU, now People For Change either. He has done NOTHING close to what is claimed.

Now for the other side ... when discussion boards ban interesting people they become ... dull. :think: If discussion boards keep banning those that disagree, there won't be much to discuss now will there?

PFC will die it's own slow tedious death because it is all that it claims to despise. It had a purpose once, when Dean supporters needed a haven, now it appears to be nothing more than a lame attempt at becoming a DU alternative?

I saw it coming, and tried to prevent it, but was banned for being a disruptor. Imagine that? :P

[mitchum]

234. That silly twit couldn't defend himself even when he was here

mzmolly, you are one of the MANY Dean supporters I have always respected, but Lee came off like a ridiculous shrill parody of a stereotyped Dean supporter. He did you guys no favors.
Humorous? I'll wager my house that I got far more laughs in my first 1000 posts than that lameass could have ever hoped to. I know funny. Lee being humorous at PFC is like telling "nigger jokes" at a Klan rally. Yeah, tough room.

[mzmolly]

236. Scott Lee is very respectful of Dean supporters who did/do

not agree with him...

Scott did enjoy toying with DU-ers, ... I'll give him that. And, I gotta admit I enjoyed it thoroughly :P but, he is a *gooood goooy!*

PS thanks for your kind words BTW. :hi:

[wyldwolf]

309. "toying" with DU'ers? LOL! Oh THATS what you call it!

[JNelson6563]

252. It's how cowards work mzmolly

Like the boy king with his "bring it on" when there wasn't an enemy in sight. His sight. Nevermind the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And they wonder why some don't want to post here anymore. I dunno, maybe they like struggling through fundraiser week. :shrug:

Julie

[wyldwolf]

308. you mean like he is doing over there?

[JNelson6563]

34. try again

Nice job trying to portray it that way.

The promise you need to make is that you won't intentionally disrupt discussion. There are many ways to do it besides ripping on one particular person therefore a broader criteria is appropriate. Considering your history, stated intentions and all.....

Julie-who has no sock puppets and wonders about those who do....

[ibegurpard]

25. What a joke!

There was a pretty obvious agenda at work there... to goad people into attacking and banning the person and then come trumpeting back here about how heavy-handed that site is. Kind of like what freepers do when they come to DU.

[Duder]

27. Exactly

It kind of makes DU look bad with the troll also trolling here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. Yeah and people on that site don't organize against posters on DU

on their boards or in their private forums.

Please back when I first came to DU some of the posters frequenting that site had organized on another site to disrupt DU...their agenda hasn't changed. I know they invited me way back when to help strong arm DU into their authoritarian image.

That is a great site for people who wish to basque in the warm enema of their failures and treat it like a victory.

[slinkerwink]

44. it's "bask," not "basque"

;-)

[trumad]

55. It's DU, not fucking PFC

[madfloridian]

72. A Free Republic Cover Site? Is that what you said?

Oh, good grief. If we form our own forum, we are now Republicans?

Is that truly the image of DU you want to give?

[trumad]

76. Oh but you got plenty on there

but in your blind haste to knock down Kerry you guy's will er..let it go... Right?

[madfloridian]

80. The board is about us....NOT Kerry.

Most of us will vote for Kerry. The ones who won't were not Democrats anyway. You must be terrified.

[trumad]

87. Come on man..you can do better than that

if you allow assholes to post in your forum then your forum is going to stink like shit...Get a grip over there and get rid of the shitheads...

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

175. DU allowed Scott to post here for months if not years....

Does that mean DU stunk then?

Come on, get over it, it is nothing more than another website---it's not a rival to DU, it's not anti-DU, it is not even ABOUT DU, it is about the present and future....and even you, yes you, might be welcome there, if you would just try to be nice. :)

[sangh0]

The threads he posted in reeked

And it's ironic how some will endlessly complain about Kerry, saying it's just "criticism, and aren't we allowed to criticize?"

But say one word of criticism about them and it's "Come on, get over it, it is nothing more than another website---it's not a rival to DU, it's not anti-DU, it is not even ABOUT DU, it is about the present and future....and even you, yes you, might be welcome there, if you would just try to be nice..."

"try to be nice" and whatever you do, don't criticize Dean

[wyldwolf]

304. If it isn't about DU, then why...

...are there threads there calling out DU'ers?

[mitchum]

155. HAHAHA

I love you, trumad :)

Kerry 2004

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

64. Spain reference

Jai-Alai and all.

[KoKo]

262. NSMA I've never been invited to "back room" anywhere. I wouldn't be,

because I've maintained my independence even through all the fights and factions and folks here on DU who IM each other and mount attacks
against "innocent newbies" or folks who just "don't quite fit in" and are renegades like myself.

To hear you deny that DU has "backroom channels" and "closed off ingroups" where folks are "targeted," is really you playing Naive.

The very fact that other Forums spring up says that the "DU In-Groups" exist and that when they go after folks they find other outlets. Because there IS a POLITICAL INGROUP HERE!

Hey....I've always been a "Live and Let Live" person. But if folks want to "Cross Post" why do "some of you" get your "knickers in a knot" over this? Huh?

[G_j]

28. thanks

thanks for the link, I'll have to check it out. :-)

[WoodrowFan]

30. you were trolling dude

I saw your posts, you were trolling. ;) But I didn't see anything on the site worth spending a lot of time on for anyone who doesn't have an orgasism at the mention of Dean's name. It's clearly a board for the truly Deanophile and not for Democrats as a whole. let them be.

[HFishbine]

45. And this matters why?

Earth shattering, I tell you.

[TahitiNut]

46. "How many angels fit on the head of a pin?"

It's really tragic when the vast majority of "discussion" focuses on:

• the hypothetical/alleged personal attributes of those engaged in such "discussion"
• the hypothetical/alleged personal attributes of candidates for and holders of elected offices
• the hypothetical/alleged personal attributes of people moderating or administering the forums in which such (specious) "discussions" take place
• interpersonal pissing contests regarding ill-defined propagandistic labels

and so little informed discussion takes place regarding the substantive socio-political issues facing our nation and world. We seem to have a signal-to-noise ratio approaching zero.

50. very well said

There is too much idolatry, putting candidates on pedestals (this happens across the political spectrum).
With all the focus on the people who brought up the issues somehow the issues get forgotten or maybe I should say neglected.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. But it's free speech

and of course it's sad when people refuse to distinguish between that which is free AKA the right to dissent, and that which comes with a cost AKA creating propaganda against those that might be regarded as fellow travelers simply because they don't worship at the same altar.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen on both sides, but if you can honestly say that a liberal site that claims to support Kerry and then fosters conversation a vile as anything the right has to offer knowing what is at stake is a partner to me in substantive issues, then I'd really like to know how.

And don't tell me I just have to win them over....especially when to do so I must somehow have to prove that shinola really isn't shit when they are convinced it is a conspiracy by shit to get them to use it as a floor wax.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. Are you really that poor of a master of the English language?

I could give a flying fuck if people who were so disruptive on DU that they got their ass handed to them on a tombstone now have a place to go where they can be high fived for poor behavior.

The purpose of THAT site varies from this site.

I prefer that this site remain true to its mission of getting rid of Bush.

Frankly, I think you should thank Skinner that you aren't banned so you can continue to steal his business...would your site even exist were it not for your ability to leach disgruntled Democrats away from DU?

I would wish you luck but you don't seem to need any as long as DU is here to feed and foster your business.

[Exgeneral]

312. BLAM! Bullseye!

we need to discuss Kerry's shortcoming so we can effectively diffuse them before they are used against us.

Shooting the messenger is counterproductive.

[WillyT]

51. Zzzzzzzzzz.... Could Y'all Wake Me Up When This Gets To 300 Posts ???

On second thought... DON'T!

:wtf:

[Wonk]

302. 300 posts, fwiw. nt

[maxanne]

56. the sky is falling

there's another internet BB out there! Oh, they aren't kissing the Kerriere! The sky is falling - it's not safe anywhere!

C'mon people - is this just a little ridiculous?

[Northwind]

60. Do you know fear when you see it, maxanne?

I do, and it is all over DU now.

Don't forget your PFC Gear http://www.cafeshops.com/peopleforchange

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Nobody fears you as competition

They are simply wincing at the thought that people who FIRST came to this site to get rid of Bush could have such an ideological shift in their intent the moment St Howard failed to be canonized

[maxanne]

68. trolls going over

deliberately to get banned and report back to DU seems to belie the statements that no one fears P4C. If there were no fear, this thread would not exist.

70. some people just like to argue

Were you ever in debate in high school?
I was.

There were a lot of debaters that were into it just because they liked to argue.
Others because they had convictions about issues.

I'm guessing you can see the relevance of my bringing this up.

:)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. How do you know that was his intent?

If I said that of a Dean supporter here that posts over there would it still fly with you?

[maxanne]

93. he said it was his intent n/t

[sangh0]

154. Link please

or are we supposed to believe it based on your say-so?

[madfloridian]

69. Stop misrepresenting the issues.

We were not welcome here for our Dean support. We formed a group to support each other when it all got so bad for Dean. Now he is out of the campaign, and we just expand the board.

We are not fond of being chided, patted on the head, and told to play nice. Most of us would have anyway. Most of us have made it clear that Kerry has our vote. We are NOT stupid people, and we know the country can not take any more of Bush.

A forum has a right to exist. Any forum, anywhere, on any topic. It is NOT a DU bashing board, and it is NOT a Kerry bashing board. It is just a forum we set up because we were inspired by Dean and his ideas.

Please stop changing the issues on this. I am having trouble even comprehending the level of discourse and hatred here. This is still America, I think.

[trumad]

73. Then what are you guy's going to do about

the freepers who've infiltrated your board... Scott lee, Code D etc.?.. why son't you clean the stink up over there and you might get some respect!

[madfloridian]

176. You just named two specific people.

You called them freepers. You are telling us how to run our board. Heck, do you tell folks here who needs to go?

[trumad]

202. You don't know how to run your board

if you allow idiots like these two to post... I'm sure as I plow through the shit over there I'd find many more....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

74. Of course they have a right to exist

There are many DU posters there I still enjoy..yourself included..along with Zidzi and a whole host of people I genuinely like.

I do find it humorous though that the thread starter may or MAY NOT have been trolling...what if he is dedicated to helping regain congress but simply doesn't care for Dean? What if he is progressive in every other way? Why ban him when the argument was that speech wasn't free enough at DU?
I read the rules and they didn't say one needed to worship Dean in order to participate.

[trumad]

82. And I find it interesting that you continue to allow obvious freeps

to post.... All for the sake of propping up Doc Dean.

[maxanne]

101. so people who you don't like

or agree with are freepers. :eyes:

[trumad]

111. Please try to make your questions to me tougher than that

really... That's like something my 10 year old would ask me... Did I ever say that? No.... BUT...I can smell a freep a mile away and that board is loaded with them...What! you don't think the freeps will flock to that board the minute they know they can spout anything they want?

[maxanne]

122. trumad

Clearly you are saying just that. You are saying exactly that. You don't like most of the PFC posters - therefore they are freepers.

Interesting contradiction you're making. On one hand you're ridiculing the banning of an obvious disruptor, who claims he was banned for dissing Dean, and on the other you're saying that freepers will flock to the board when they know they can spout whatever they want.

So - which is it - can't have it both ways??!!

[sangh0]

152. trumad is SO lucky to have maxanne to tell him what he really meant

maxanne, maybe you could do that for everyone and save us all a lot of time.

And for all the talk about how toil was a disruptor with bad intentions, I haven't seen one post from PFC to back up that accusation. I guess PFCer's can read minds.

[maxanne]

162. my, how often

you seem to appear, sangh0. Where maxanne is - sangh0/ha appears like magic.

Toil admitted his intent was to get banned. Given that you frequent a heavily moderated board, your arguments don't hold much water.

[sangh0]

167. Where is the link?

You keep claiming there is a post where toil admits his intent was to disrupt and get banned. So where's the link?

[maxanne]

172. if you're so interested

go read all his posts, sangh0. I'm flattered to finally have a groupie, but you'll have to be a little sweeter to me, if you expect me to do your homework. :*

[sangh0]

188. Nice dodge

Too bad you don't have the courage of your convictions

Or any evidence to back your empty accusations up with

[maxanne]

213. I don't step and fetch

for people who consistantly rude and abusive to me.

[sangh0]

220. What do you do

besides making empty accusations that is?

[maxanne]

227. I don't stalk

people on internet forums making silly accusations and demands.

[KoKo]

320. That Sang thing is everywhere like Kudzu over the fences.......one doesn't

know if there's a control or if it's worth it, really. :shrug:

[trumad]

201. Scratch my head and say what?

Obviously from reading that board, anything can be said about John Kerry... Will this invite freepers to hop on board... Uhhh Huuuhhh

Have freeps already jumped on board...You Bet!

[nwstrn]

86. Exactly

They can't point to any of my comments that justified being banned. I simply disagreed as to whether Dean was our best candidate.

[maxanne]

104. horse hockey

and you know it. Did you offer any substantive commentary? A number of folks posting on this thread found your behavior trolling.

Interesting new identity you have here, btw.

[sangh0]

156. Then where's the link?

You say there is a post showing that he was trolling. So where's the link?

[madfloridian]

88. Why do posters get banned here?

For keeping on keeping on among other things.

I will vote for Kerry, do you want it in blood?

Do you want to be the one who decides who is worthy and who is not?

AND your implication that I "worship" Dean or anyone makes me feel ill at what is happening to all of us.

Good lord, this is all so sick.

[trumad]

92. People get banned here for acting like scumbag freepers

Why do they get banned there...for dissing a guy who's not even a canidate.... sick isn't the word!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

98. I made it clear that I was not referencing you

People get banned from here for a variety of reasons that have had NOTHING to do with whether or not they supported Howard Dean.

They usually get banned for breaking the rules..which rules were arbitrated by moderators some of whom were FOR Dean..so that certainly wouldn't be the reason they were banned.

No I don't want it in blood that you vote for Kerry. It is your vote.


You're free to do as you wish and say as you wish...you're doing it now aren't you?

You haven't been banned, have you?

Has anyone AT ALL ever been banned from DU for SUPPORTING Howard Dean? Really? IS that the SOLE reason they were banned? Really? Because many of them certainly pretend it is.

[nwstrn]

79. Not a Kerry and DU bashing board?

Are you kidding? That's what the board is all about. You haven't even bothered to change your DU names.

"I am having trouble even comprehending the level of discourse and hatred here"

I am having trouble understanding why you and your flock are still allowed to post here.

[maxanne]

108. not everyone

feels the need to hide behind multiple identities.

[jansu]

239. Why would I change my user name? It is the name that we are known by!

I did not know that we need to create new identities every time we post on another board...who made that rule?....I like knowing by the names, who the people are from one board to the other.

You seem to have a problem understanding why anyone would post on more than one board site......do you have more than one friend? I do, because having many different people in your life, gives you a bigger base of human connections and the ideas from each one of them are varied and different. It broadens and expands my thinking and my life.

"I am having trouble understanding why you and your flock are still allowed to post here." to quote nswtrn....Sounds too much like Bush's "You are either with us or against us" mentality! And proves the point of why other boards are needed!

"I am having trouble even comprehending the level of discourse...." to quote nswtrn. The level of discourse, may be beyond your level of comprehension. That is not our fault. Sorry, we won't dumb down!

If you don't enjoy a site, no one is forcing you to go to it! Actually, I would prefer that you did not.

[Walt Starr]

288. I would change my name

but the court issues alone make me not want to go through with it.

Besides, my wife already had to go through all of that crap when she changed her name after we were married. Quite frankly, it would be too much of a pain in the ass for me to change my name just to make you happy.

[edzontar]

183. What once was a refuge is now a place for anyone who wants to

Come by.

It is not about DU. Or Dean. Or Kerry--although ALL of those things might be discussed by INDIVIDUALS on the baord.

In a free society (still, we hope) people have a right to organize forums and express opinions.

WHAT is such a BIG DEAL about that?

[madfloridian]

99. Who wants to be competition? Where are you getting this stuff?

There is no competition with a forum with 40,000 + members. How ridiculous that is.

Why would we want to be competition? We have just been seeing the handwriting on the wall. Banned at DNC forums, treated like we don't belong here anymore.....*even though most of us will vote for Kerry*.....we see the handwriting.

There is no competing with a board this size. Good grief.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

113. What hadnwriting on the wall? That fellow progressives may disagree with

you on the best candidate for the presidency? So what!

Nobody has exiled you from DU...many of you took it upon yourselves to alienate yourselves when Dean didn't win.

There are at least TEN people on that board that I had always had cordial and even friendly relations with until I had the nerve to disagree with them...then besides calling me every name in the book,, they decided I was NOT liberal enough for them even though my entire PROFESSIONAL history says otherwise.

I think it is great to form alliances with like minds...but please don't claim anyone chased you guys out of here.

Many Dean supporters alienated themselves. That is how they want it..that is TO SOME DEGREE how the campaign was run and why it didn't light a fire under America's ass.....

[madfloridian]

140. No, not really.

I see it as this:

If Dean had not been blunt and had not spoken out, there would have been no outcry about this horrible war. Kucinich was griping, but it took more than that.

Dean said it right on MTP. For two years our party laid down at Bush's feet and voted for his right wing agenda.

No, most of us were pretty decent. We were treated with condescension and looked upon as fools.

BUT guess what NSMA, look what is happening around the country....people are waking up. The truth is coming out about the war,and the Medicare bill, and the NCLB. Now before the Democrats start to say yes sir, Mr. Bush, thank you very much, Mr Bush....they will think twice. They make not like Dean or us....in fact the party despises us...but they WILL think twice.

Dean did not make it, but his voice made a difference. So did we.

We were treated like we were not wanted here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

158. I realize that and have usually acknowledge it but guess what else?

Dean had the unique ability to do that having not been an office holder at the time...and please don't tell me he himself didn't support SOME of Bush's agenda on the war and the Patriot Act...his words are there for everyone to see on news programs PRIOR to the time he decided to run for office.

If i had worked as hard as you, I would have been just as disappointed.

Some party insiders may despise you, but Dean himself had PLENTY of party insiders supporting and endorsing him.

When push came to shove, he didn't get the job done..blame it on dirty campaigning if you wish but he flung his share of poo.

[madfloridian]

168. Many insiders who are waking up. There is a difference.

Of course Dean did attacks. It was a campaign. Many of the "insiders" so to speak who endorsed him are waking up from their stupor about where some in the leadership were going. Now they, like we, will pay a price for our loyalty to him.

I know of one, a founder of the DLC, who is now aware that days of influence are numbered.

Sounds more and more like the good old GOP. Stay on the issues, don't break ranks.

[sangh0]

163. "Kucinich was griping, but it took more than that. "

So please tell us, which magical power did Dean use to make Iraq an issue when DK couldn't because as I remember it, Dean was as much an asterisk as DK was when Iraq became an issue.

For two years our party laid down at Bush's feet and voted for his right wing agenda

And for those two years, where was Dean?

A: Campaigning as a moderate who would balance the budget and cut taxes while not upsetting all those gun owners.

[madfloridian]

174. Hi again.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

187. Our party voted for those things. Not Dean's fault.

There is a word for that, it is called rationalization.

[sangh0]

193. And where was Dean?

Why did he wait for two years to speak up?

Yes, it is called rationalization. It's also called "projection"

[madfloridian]

206. Oooh, he was speaking up.

You just were not listening.

And again, quit excusing the Democrats for bowing to Bush by putting the blame on Dean. That is not a defensible position.

[sangh0]

208. Link please

Or is Dean's speaking up like toil's confession of intent to troll (ie. something that can't be documented)??

[Rowdyboy]

67. Jebus...I'd last about 30 seconds over there

Good to see none have dropped out of politics.

[Misinformed01]

71. There has just GOT to be a reason

why you think I should give a rat's ass about this...or even better, how you got so many responses to such a stupid topic.

Please enlighten me when you get a moment.

[trumad]

77. rats ass enough to chime in

:shrug:

[Misinformed01]

84. Sorry, I stupidly read it

Had to comment---

I spent part of my morning with another DUer by accident....we were commenting on this exact type of post.

[comsymp]

81. You mean you don't find this kind of sandbox fighting entertaining?

Ya commie~
:evilgrin:

[Misinformed01]

85. Yeah, I know...I suck

whazzup?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

89. Hi honey..I'll be happy to give you a reason

Some people calim to be your partner in life and the minute you disagree with them they will kill you off.

We are in the midst of a very critical election in this country and people can claim to be your comrade while all the while they are doing the work of the opposition.

One would have thought the left would have learned this after Gore v. Bush but apparently they haven't.

For some of us ...it is pretty clear that a site that claims they support the nominee while fostering propaganda against him is completely disloyal to the cause.

[Misinformed01]

115. I understand your point....I love reading internet boards

and I had never even heard of this one.

I figured it wasn't that big of a deal that someone went over there trolling, and got booted. I personally have been kicked off FR twice, and one run by someone on DU...but, I can't remember the name of it! :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

124. I like sticking needles in my eyes and losing critical elections on which

the entire future of humanity may hinge...

That's why I want to support a site where the Dem nominee gets his ears boxed as well by the left as anything the right can offer.

There's more liberals than conservatives..we need to make sure we keep them divided....

[Pithlet]

83. I wouldn't worry about it so much.

I've been a member of a few message boards over the past few years, and little spin-off forums started by disgruntled members happen every once in awhile. They never last. It isn't worth the time or effort. It only reinforces the idea that they were persecuted and therefore had to seek refuge in another forum.

[Walt Starr]

96. Spin off forums can sometimes outdo the originals

I've seen that before, too. It all depends upon the dynamics of the forums in question.

I've seen it time and again. It's not a new phenomenon. P4C has been around for several months now. It fills a niche that DU can't, ergo, it'll stick around.

[Pithlet]

102. I'm sorry

That just hasn't been my experience. Particularly one that were started by members who had a beef with the original forum. So, I wouldn't lay odds. It still has less than 500 members. It's not that I'm hoping P4C will fail or anything. I really don't care, either way. If it does buck the odds, then more power to them.

[Walt Starr]

125. Actually, it broke the 500 number today

If you use the same "counts" as other message boards, i.e. the number of registered handles banned or not.

P4C is more honest, when a member is banned, the number of members is rolled back by one.

[Pithlet]

135. Good for them. n/t

[Walt Starr]

164. It'll stick around. Like I said, it fulfills different needs than DU

So long as a forum fulfills a niche, it will remain.

[Pithlet]

173. What are those needs, exactly?

and how are they different from DU's? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

I did go over to check out the site once, and all of the anti-DU attacks really turned me off. It makes it appear as though THAT is the main focus of such a site. And, if that is so, then they are doomed. Even you couldn't resist getting a little dig in at DU with that whole "honest" stuff a couple of posts back.

If it could find its niche aside from "We're not DU!" then maybe they have a shot. I didn't say all spin offs are doomed to fail. I was a part of a parenting board that was a spin off for awhile, and it was very successful. I believe it was successful because the people just relaxed and allowed themselves to be different, and just ignored the fact that the other board even existed. We became a funnier, smarter, more entertaining board. It can be done. I just don't think P4C is doing that, yet.

[Walt Starr]

195. I was telling the truth, not a dig

And reactions like that turn me off to further discussion on the topics.

IF you dig on any forum, actual membership numbers can be derived.

[Pithlet]

197. Nevertheless

It still speaks to what I was talking about.

It certainly came across as a dig to me. It looked very much like you were insinuating that DU's motive in counting all members was somehow dishonest, by stating that C4P was doing the "honest" thing by counting only existing members.

P4C needs to ignore DU and do its own thing if it doesn't want to come across as yet another disgruntled "I'm taking my marbles elsewhere" spinoff.

[Pithlet]

And you didn't answer my question.

It would have been an opportunity to maybe add to the member roll and disabuse me and maybe some others of the notion that it is just another disgruntled spinoff.

[KoKo]

255. I'll Chime in here. The NEED NOT to be ATTACKED day after day after

day when you are a Democrat the same as everyone else. If anyone thinks that it's only Greens and Nader's who feel attacked on DU then think again. I was the most mainstream Dem you'd ever want to know when I joined DU after the "Selection."

If I feel attacked here, then there's something that's changed with DU...so many of us can cross post. I've given to DU to support this site, I will still give until I get bored or whatever with it. Where I go with my time is my business.

That all of you want to attack shows why some of us felt "not at home" anymore on this site. Do you GET IT?

[Pithlet]

272. Well, I guess because you shouted it at me...

I do understand that Dean supporters were attacked on this site. It was wrong. And I could see the need for a separate board for them to go to so they don't have to deal with that. When that initially happened, I remember thinking "I don't blame them".

My whole point is that focusing on hatred of DU and building your site around that, and antagonizing DU members both at that site and here will not make for an effective and lasting board. I'm sorry, but all of the petty little digs at DU, and talking about members is very off putting. Have your board, and discuss your issues. Ignore DU, or at the very least, stop making your site the anti-DU.

[KoKo]

293. No........I only see evidence of DU'ers going over there and antagonizing

them. I did a scan of posts and threads over there this a.m and couldn't find a thread mentioning any DU'ers except my OWN first post which did mention a "Rumor from Truth Out Employee."

My post was the only mention I saw of anyone on DU. So, I take responsibility that the "Truth Out" Employee was over there trolling and saw my post and trashed the whole site because of my mention of that "Employee" anonymously.

There's nothing over there, that's obvious on a search. So, what is the ruckus about over here, from last night to this post.

I've been on DU a very long time. And, I watch stuff and the factions that go "at each other." This is nothing more than resentment that so many "long time DU'ers" would go to another site because they were attacked and didn't feel welcome here anymore.

I wasn't a "die hard Dean supporter." I was and am Dean/Kuchinch and now I will support Kerry. So, I didn't take the attacks as personally as those who really were so committed to their Candidates that these attacks on DU were like "stabs to the heart."

I'm older and have been through political Campaigns before. So, I'm more pragmatic. But, that all this stuff has bothered me, given my background says that DU had a problem. People didn't feel comfortable discussing their political choice so they went elsewhere.

Many still post in other Forums here, but not about their candidate. What's wrong with that?

It's Democracy. The freedom to choose your group...the one that fits you the best? :shrug: Doesn't mean that you don't still "hang" with those folks to go to a ball game or movie...just means you don't talk about "politics."

[Pithlet]

314. Disagree to a certain extent.

Like I said, I was against the Dean bashing. I don't think this is resentment against long time DUers leaving DU, as you say. I see it as people who were treated badly here making their own board, and then for some reason, many of them not letting go of DU. I went to P4C. I was not biased against the site in any way; as I said before, I thought making their own site was a good idea. I saw lots of DU bashing, even if some of it was thinly veiled. I saw more than one instance of DUers mentioned by name. I see people here with their sig advertising the new site, and getting very defensive. And, last of all, I see people who were hurt by the things they saw posted at P4C getting attacked in this thread by P4Cers.

I do see lots of good things over there. I think the site would have more potential, if they would just be their own board, and not the anti-DU. A lot of the teeth nashing going on by the P4Cers in this thread makes it look like just that.

If I had been treated badly here, and left for another site (or started one) I'd just forget about this place. If they didn't want me here, screw them. All of this infighting, from both sides, is petty and unnecessary.

[trumad]

105. Not this one...

It will implode with the help of the assholes who currently are posting on it.

[maxanne]

110. which forum

are you speaking of, trumad?

[WillyT]

131. So All The DUers Over There Are Now ASSHOLES ???

Really.

:wtf:

[Guaranteed]

149. It's the new "board-ism!" nt

[madfloridian]

147. Could you name the a**holes specifically, please?

Would be nice to know. How many were banned from here? 3 you say? So how many are a**holes.

[RetroLounge]

219. I post there too.

So Am I an asshole?

Can you please say that to my face here. Or is that too real?

RL

[JNelson6563]

254. You asshole

haha

Julie--fellow asshole :toast:

[KoKo]

298. Assholes? Currently posting.....Assholes?

:shrug:

[WillyT]

128. And Sometimes...

The spinoffs are out of necessity.

During the 2002 elections there was a major bloodletting here, along with the arrival of the first wave of the La FlamRude. The Admins had to ban a number of posters, and then change the rules so that only people who had contributed money to the DU could post. That put a chink in the armour of trolls\freepers\disruptors\La FlamRude, but also kicked off many a good-hearted DUer.

I had been out of work for over a year, had no money to contibute, we had just lost the Senate, and I needed a place like DU to vent and seek solace, but was tossed overboard for lack of funds. A new discussion board was set up, so that casualties in the first DU Civil War could still discuss the issues.

Seems like this possible 2nd DU Civil War has a similar potential. I do not fear, nor have I joined (YET), the P4C site. But if I do, as is my right, I do not have to carry anybody's 'death-grudge' from here over to there. Or vice-versa.

Nor will I abandon DU, which I still consider my home. It's just that I tire of the La FlamRude, and can see their hordes massing at the border, ya know???

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

130. I'm a DUer and a P4Cer

They are not mutually exclusive. Both fulfill different needs.

[Pithlet]

132. I agree, sometimes they are.

I really wasn't making a comment on the content of the site, or why anyone started it. I was just commenting on my experiences with spin off sites like P4C. However, I will say this: they seem to be focusing too much on the fact that they are a spin off site, with all the "Look what's happening at poor, pathetic DU" posts, and all of the defensive posting here at DU by their members. Anytime I hear of a new progressive site I like to check them out. But, P4C rubbed me the wrong way. I think there could be some potential there, if it weren't for that element.

[WillyT]

138. I Agree With You 2 !!!

Unfortunately, it seems that both sites (if we keep this up) are about to be bordering on the edge of pathetic. That's my fear, and my sadness.

We all still have so much work to do.

:hi::shrug::hi:

[Pithlet]

141. Yes

It saddens me to see such divisiveness, too. I hope it doesn't get us another 4 years of Bush. I wish we could all band together for that cause, and quit with the infighting. :hi:

[madfloridian]

184. But it is not your forum.

You don't have to go there.

[Pithlet]

Well, Duh. Obviously.

What was the point of your post?

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

97. True. Just a Pissant Dean Whiner/Freeper Forum.

Crybaby central.

[madfloridian]

150. Wow. all those attacks right in the subject line.

:cry:

[KFC]

160. Well, they do have links to RNC/Bush sites on the page

So I guess the freeper part is correct.

[slinkerwink]

229. those are google ads which we can't control

:shrug:

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

328. Sure you can - get rid of the google ads

Pro-Bush links don't seem appropriate for a Dean/progressive site.

[slinkerwink]

329. we also have pro-democrat links on google ads that we have there

[MadHound]

94. OMFG, a board just had the terminity to ban a DUer

The sky is Faaalllliiinnnggg!

Puleeze! You went a trolling over there and they booted your happy ass. Grow up and get over it. What are you threatened by, a progressive board that doesn't worship at the alter of Kerry, heaven forbid. You know, there are plenty of liberal progressive boards who don't worship at the alter of Dean, Green boards, Nader boards, socialist boards, etc etc. And guess what, if you came in spouting the bullshit that you did in PFC, they would boot your ass off too!

Look, if you want to visit other boards, show some respect and don't be an ass. It is their home, and they are entitled to that much. It is kind of like how DU treats freepers, they're allowed over, and can even engage in some spirited back and forth, but soon as they start to act up, out the door they go. You are not the be all and end all of internet posters, and people are allowed to call you on it when your being stupid. Deal.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nwstrn]

103. I don't mind being banned!

It was fun.

"if you want to visit other boards, show some respect and don't be an ass."

Like promoting an anti-Kerry, anti-DU board in your signature line?

Trumad--that wasn't directed at you--love your signature!

[maxanne]

116. pucker pucker n/t

[MadHound]

118. What then bubbyrow, that was directed at me?

Notice if you will that my sig line has a Marley line in it. Nothing about PFC, DU or anything else for that matter.

Geez, I can see why you got banned though:eyes: You simply spew mindless vitriol everywhere you go, and what's worse, wear it like a badge of honor:crazy: Tact my friend, tact. A little bit will go a long way.

[nwstrn]

126. bubbyrow?

Who's bubbyrow?
No, that wasn't directed at you, but the other "morans" who have PFC in their sig line.

[hexola]

107. Who freakin cares...

any half-wit can download some OS forum software, slap catchy title on it and think they've hit the big time...

People For Change - BAH!

DU and FR have already staked out the territory - the rest will be pretenders...

(although i think FR is having a personality crisis...they've banned everyone and have no one left to hate...except themselves!)

[RetroLounge]

109. Oh my God? They banned a Troll?

Good...

Freeper tendencies get Freeper treatment, I guess.

I guess I'll spend more time there. Sounds like fun.

RL

[trumad]

114. Freeper tendencies get Freeper treatment, I guess.

ROTFLMAO

This is exactly why I've declared war on PFC. What a bunch of fucking Hypocrites! Dude..your stupid little forum is crawling with freeps... but they're bashing Kerry so that's OK....

[Duder]

121. Declared war on PFC?

It kind of figures in a nuanced kind of way.

[maxanne]

123. oh boy!

The Sharks and the Jets are gonna rumble. Are you gonna come over and beat us up, trumad? What are you - in fifth grade?

[Duder]

129. A pre-emptive strike perhaps

Give him a resolution to vote for.

[NoPasaran]

134. Dude! You've DECLARED WAR on P4C?

You may need to cut back on the red meat dude.

[Guaranteed]

145. Yes he has. But don't say he's "angry."

That'll get you a warning. LOL

Even very calm, loving people declare war on others.

[NoPasaran]

181. I love those who declare war on me

:loveya:
Dare I say it?
Bring. It. On.

[RetroLounge]

214. You've Declared war?

Wow, did Kerry vote for your PFC-WR also?

RL

[LTR]

143. Oh great, now we're hyping a soapbox for DU disruptors

Yeah, I see 'em all there. Scott Lee and all the other so-called wannabe 'progressives' sporting tombstones.

Blatantly trashing Dems with cheap slams is not permitted here, and rightly so, IMO. But pimping the hell out of a board here so we can read the mindless rantings of freeper disruptors? And to serve as a forum to trash DU and other DU'ers? Gimme a break!

At least we know what Free Republic and the ilk are all about.

Now, I understand the board masters there have good intentions, but you people really need to do some housecleaning over there. It's a mess!

I checked it out, and I think I'll stay put here at good ol' DU.

[madfloridian]

159. You say that if someone speaks against Kerry, they are a freeper?

You are saying that I think.

Goodness. I don't speak against Kerry here or there. Believe it or not I had not seen many anti-Kerry posts there either...but you guys sure find them.

[maxanne]

166. good!!

[WillyT]

144. See... You Guys Thought I Was Kidding With The 300 Post Crack...

Dintcha???

:evilgrin:

:wtf:

[WoodrowFan]

223. yes I did.

my bad,. we'll hit 300 easy. Want me to email you when we hit 290???

[edzontar]

157. Toil. I tried to engage with you in your disruptor mode at PFC.

Even though you acted like an obvious troll.

I was polite and welcomong in several threads....but it soon became clear that the only reason you were there was to try to get banned.

I guess this was the next phase of your plan--to come over here and say "AHA!!! They banned me!!!"

What a special day this mus have been for you.

Thanks for wasting my time--nice way to help build that winning coalition.....

[nwstrn]

171. "nice way to help build that winning coalition"

I didn't see any evidence of building a "winning coalition" at PFC. My question as to how Dean could help Kerry win the Presidency was met with scorn.

Yes, it is sad. It's sad that some people post in DU with a link to an anti-DU forum that continually bashes Kerry.

[maxanne]

178. you weren't looking for any

how many forums did you actually look in, nwstrn/toil? Your 70+ posts were in only one part of the board.

Tell us about the substantive additions you made at PFC. What kind of weighty matters did you post about? Where were your attempts at coalition building?

When asked about what you were doing in your community or your state -you avoided the questions completely, sticking to Dean bashing, demanding Kerry support, or combining the two and demanding Dean campaign for Kerry.

[nwstrn]

189. "Attempts at coalition building"

The only evidence of "coalition building" were freepers joining with Dean supporters to bash Kerry.

I'm amazed at the number of PFCers who have come running back to DU and this thread just to say how sad, disappointed, etc. they are with DU. Can't let go, I guess.

[maxanne]

217. are you going to answer

my questions, nwstn? What did you contribute? Did you offer suggestions, or describe the work you were doing? Why won't you answer me?


Why would a DU "newbie" go over there on that mission?

[nwstrn]

231. Actually, for the couple of hours that I was there

I think I did make a meaningful, substantive contribution, certainly more than most of the posters there. I was amazed at the lack of knowledge on the forum.

"Why would a DU "newbie" go over there on that mission?"

Where's that smiley, laughing face?! The mods know--I'm a "newbie" here, at least in the number of posts. My first post was last fall, and I like to post occasionally. I did contribute to Dean, then Clark and now to Kerry. I'm a Democrat--and not welcome on your board.

I believe those Dean supporters who haven't come to terms with the primary should have a place to go to vent. But linking to the PFC in signature lines here is sad. Maybe it's time to let go.

[Exgeneral]

307. HOW MUCH COALITION BUILDING ARE YOU DOING RIGHT NOW?

Seems like despite crybaby antics the main point of this thread is to tear down yet another group who don't worship Kerry , instead of extending an olive branch.

As I said before, this is no way to treat 40% of your party, knuckleheads.

319. I'm giving you a Bullseye for that one

:evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

180. I told you how he was doing it. You ignored those of use who responded.

You had 3 threads going at the same time, just keeping on. I gave up trying to respond, as you ignored it.

[trumad]

179. Why don't you engage with Scott Lee and Code D?

Ask them what their motivation is with their bullshit scumbag posts.... I'd like to see that...:eyes:

[madfloridian]

191. You really do have issues with two people, and you declare war on all?

Good gracious, Trumad. They have a right to exist, to breathe, to be on a forum. If you don't like their posts, don't go there and read them.

You can NOT tell us how to run the forum. That is not your place.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

204. First off, I have no "ugly-** " banner. Look at my post.

Good lord, you are really needing to take a deep breath. Just relax.

[RetroLounge]

212. Wow, your post appears to be very angry

Your post, your words, not you of course. As that may be construed as personal, and I am not getting personal with you.

But Angry words. Maybe your words are full of fear? Why would words be scared? Do words have emotions? Can you hurt words with other words?

What are words for? When no one listens...

RL

[WillyT]

169. Is Anybody Else Finding This Humorous ???

Not just this entire thread...

But the fact that we continually tell people here to ignore the trolls\disrptors\etc...

You know... Don't respond, use the ignore feature...

Here's an entire discussion site that many here seem to have a problem with, yet they have to ACTIVELY go there and seek out the information they want, or want to complain about.

I have no problem with P4C, but if EVER there was a time for admonishing people to ignore what they don't like to read...

Seems like this is the perfect time.

Isn't there something else you could be doing???

:shrug:

[Wonk]

190. Here, have some popcorn and join me on the comfy couch. nt

[madfloridian]

194. It is hilarious.

Fighting here about another forum. I think it must be a first. Now what forum is next to rip apart. LOL

[Pithlet]

200. Mmmmm. Kettlecorn.

*Gets herself comfy*

[WillyT]

205. Thanks Wonk !!! --- Could Ya Pass The Brewer's Yeast ???

An ex-GF of mine used Brewer's Yeast instead of salt on our buttered popcorn.

YUM!!!

:hi::loveya::hi:

[WoodrowFan]

226. got any cheetos??

yum. (plops down ina bean bag chair) I got 10$ on Trumad vs the Deanophiles.

[shance]

177. LOL!! Wow. You guys were sooo right!!

You actually did pull this stunt!!

Too damned funny!!

We all thought you were going to set up a deal at PFC and do this because you were so rude and frothing for a fight with anyone, but then I thought, nah, what kind of person would waste their time doing something like this and literally try to set up a dishonest situation like this to bring back to DU. VOILA!

I just thought some of raging, maniacal Republicans engaged in this kind of stuff.

But you have totally proved me wrong. (or maybe you havent***)

[madfloridian]

192. The only people fighting there are the ones who just found out.

And the funny thing is they are fighting here about it! How funny is that? Huh?

We don't fight much there, we sort of respect opinions.

It is just a forum. Oh, and most of us are active lifelong Democrats. For now.

[trumad]

198. we sort of respect opinions

What..like calling Clinton Fat Bubba or Kerry, Botox..... Yah...you guy's are so fucking cool!

[madfloridian]

203. How many did that?

Quick! Give me their names and I will turn them in at once. They criticized Clinton and Kerry? Never happen here would it.

Give me the list now and I will report them.

[sangh0]

207. All the ones posting in the threads I read

I didn't see any positive posts about Kerry, and that was in a thread about how Kerry is attacking Bush*!

Here's one of them. There's only two or three people, aside from toil, who make a positive post about Kerry.

http://www.peopleforchange.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5321

[madfloridian]

215. New Rule for our forum?

Is that a new rule we need to implement? Ok. Deal with you:

If DU says Dean must be praised here, then I will betcha we could get some posts there praising Kerry.

It is NOT a Kerry board, it is Dean board. It is not anti one or thing. But sometimes people post stuff.

[sangh0]

221. You asked "How many did that?"

And when I gave you an answer, you reply "Is that a new rule we need to implement?"

If you didn't like the answer, why did you ask the question?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1239634#1241006

[Brian_Expat]

210. Some advice, since my other thread dealing with this was locked. . .

Please get over yourself. Trolling this board and other boards is very immature. It's the friggin' INTERNET for Christ's sake.

Go to a racquetball club and work off that aggression. Try splitting some wood for the fireplace if that's more convenient, then light a fire and spend a romantic evening in front of the fireplace with your honey. It will be a nice memorable memory that's certainly more worthwhile than "I got to disrupt two internet boards in one day."

Just a suggestion. :)

[exclark4dean]

211. PFC Rocks ! It's like DU was before it went so right wing

nt

[SiobhanClancy]

218. You're calling DU right-wing?

I just want to be clear about it...while you're still around.

[RetroLounge]

225. Come on, DU is NOT right wing.

PFC is just a different board I post on. Maybe more left or progressive in some cases, but being to the left of DU does not make Du right-wing.

Skinner gave us a place to get away from the Freeps, and DU is still a safe place for that.

I spend most of my time here, when I am on the net at all.

Yes, PFC does rock, for me, but it's not a DU replacement. It is a fine addition to an already fine Democratic Cuisine. :)

RL

[exclark4dean]

237. The proIWR and antiChavez imperialists here have spoiled the whole barrel

of DU apples.

It's like reading Freepers.

They have no right to infect a socalled 'liberal' board with their right wing crap

[WoodrowFan]

274. gracious

how far to the left do you have to be to think the DU is anyhting but left??

[dmr]

270. You're wrong

you say: "PFC Rocks ! It's like DU was before it went so right wing"

DU was born out of anger and frustration over the theft of the presidency. The fight is to get the bum out of the White House, who is on his last leg of a stolen, yet appointed 4 year term.

We have a fight ahead of us this year. It's going to be nasty and downright dirty, you can bank on that because the crime family will see to it.

It looks like Kerry will be our nominee, and participating in anything to discredit him is adding fuel for the Bush* camp.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread has gone on long enough.

[WillyT]

228. Thanks For The Popcorn Wonk, But Now I'm Goin For A Pint !!!

:beer:

Wonder if anybody remembers there's an election to win comin up???

:shrug:

Ah well... Off to the pub! So much nicer than "Off with their heads!", no?

:evilgrin:

I'll check back, should be at about 500 posts by then, LOL!

:hi:

230. they're talking about calling it off

because of the example of Spain.
Didn't you hear?
:)

[salin]

235. one question.. why is this in GD?

every other "I went and got kicked off of X forum" thread I have ever read was in the lounge.

[exclark4dean]

238. Skinnner hates PFC - any anti PFC diatribe gets a green light on DU !

[maddezmom]

240. and you know this about Skinner, how?

:eyes:

[Catholic Sensation]

242. bah no point

edit: the moron's been tombstoned

[WoodrowFan]

282. waves bye bye

antichavez imperialists?? OYE

[Pithlet]

246. Considering

Some posts against P4C have been deleted in this thread, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.

[slinkerwink]

253. Skinner doesn't hate PFC----don't be ridiculous!

[Catholic Sensation]

241. This might be the most retarded thing I've seen in a while

not since two anime sites I enjoyed going to four years ago started a little war.

[LTR]

243. Flame war on an anime board

Now THAT I've gotta see!

[Catholic Sensation]

244. I'll try to find it, it was classic

and almost as stupid as some of the things being said here... almost

[wyldwolf]

248. I have a small portion of a thread there devoted to little ol' me!

:loveya:
:puke:

[WoodrowFan]

286. I am soooooooooooo, like, jealous!!!

(check your inbox WW) Love your posts BTW!!! :yourock:

[janx]

250. STOP IT. LEAVE IT ALONE.

It's none of your business. Please, just leave it alone.

[ibegurpard]

257. Don't worry about it

The assholes having shitfits in this thread are the biggest part of the reason a lot of us have left or cut way down on DU. Let them have their echo chamber.

[trumad]

263. Bwwwwaaaaaaa

[JNelson6563]

259. Let them go Janx

I want a bit more to print out to share with a psychologist friend of mine. We sometimes marvel at how revealing such exchanges can be. They also usually leave me wondering what all these people actually did with their lives before the internet.

Julie

[Pithlet]

261. That's funny

Coming from someone who has over 6000 posts here :)

[JNelson6563]

287. Yep and it took me years to get there

I marvel at those who rack up thousands in that many months. Or hell, for that matter, that many threads! ;-)

Then ya figure in their sock puppets and OY! We're talking 10 hours a day I'd wager. Can you imagine? I can't!

Then ya figure in obsessive behavior we are often witness to. Hoo-boy!! It was one thing when we were getting loyalty oaths regarding the election pretty much every day in GD04 but geez! Looking at this tangle of psychological symptoms one could predict loyalty oaths to DU any day now.

It's an internet DB people. Let it go. It's just s'pose to be fun and maybe you can learn something from time to time. It's not meant as a full time thing. I know! Why not get involved in your local political party in real life?? Who knows, instead of declaring war from one imaginary world to another we might actually get something accomplished!!

Julie~the dreamer

[Pithlet]

318. Well, I have you beat

since I've been with DU almost since the beginning, and have not yet broken 3000. That is, I'd have you beat if that sort of statistic was even remotely relevant to anything.

You seem awfully worked up about this for someone who's a tad disdainful of people who get so worked up about it ;)

[janx]

323. It is definitely some sad stuff! n/t

[seaglass]

260. Why, are you embarrassed for your fellow PFCers?

Anyone who posts over at PFC and slams DU should be ashamed to come back here and use space on this board.

[wyldwolf]

265. Excuse me? There are DU'ers there called out by name...

including me, Will Pitt, and others.

I would say it is our business!

[ibegurpard]

275. Yeah, so?

It's not DU and it's not likely you'll find someone who was never an asshole being badmouthed.

[wyldwolf]

277. Please read post #250 - - - It has become MY BUSINESS.

Kinda cowardly they would hide ...

[ibegurpard]

279. I'd say it to your face right here

but the rules wouldn't allow it.

[wyldwolf]

297. Yeah, I noticed a lot of THAT over there, too

So a thread over the weekend on how peaceful GD:2004 had become. Now I know why.

[Guaranteed]

276. It's a private board.

It's not yours. They have a right to say whatever they want- and you don't have the right to see it.

If you're looking at that board without the admin's permission, you're invading his, and every member of the board's, privacy.


It's like reading someone else's diary. Pretty fucking wrong.

[wyldwolf]

281. You're only half right

you don't have the right to see it.

If you're looking at that board without the admin's permission, you're invading his, and every member of the board's, privacy.

It is on the internet. Not behind a firewall. Not password protected. I do have the right to see it.

[Guaranteed]

310. WHERE are you seeing people talk trash about you? nt

[Walt Starr]

321. Please provide a link to this post you allege calls you out by name.

I haven't seen it and would like to.

[Pithlet]

285. I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

There are ways to make a board truly private, where no one but members can see it. That is not how P4C works right now. The whole internet can see it. Therefore, anything posted there is up for grabs for anyone wanting to respond to it.

People who read about themselves on the internet on an open forum have EVERY RIGHT to be upset about it. Lurkers aren't invading anyone's privacy. That is ludicrous.

[Guaranteed]

301. I doubt that they're reading anything about themselves in an open forum.

I'll check it out though.

[wyldwolf]

322. I just read there ...

I didn't think it was possible to hate anyone as much as I hate george bush. I was wrong.

And you forgot Will Pitt. LOL

and...

Oh aint that the truth. You know, for a so called political writer, Pitt gets more wrong than he does right these days. I feel like he's the literary equivalent to the Gilligan's Island character "Wrongway Feldman" - the pilot who always got lost because he was flying the wrong way.

[Guaranteed]

325. That wasn't particularly nasty.

Pitt's a public figure. People can criticize what he writes.

[Walt Starr]

326. That post is about a known columnist

There is no difference between that post and a post on DU about any other columnist.

AFAIK, the person in question is NOT a member of P4C.

[Guaranteed]

333. Please tell me you have more than that.

Please tell me that we're not pinning a 300+ post flamefest on something as piddly as that.

Where's this thread devoted to you that you speak of?

[LTR]

290. "Private board"??? Come on!

I run a message board myself (sports-related). I have the option to privatize it, so only registered members can read it. I decided to make it open for anyone to read or join. I welcome lurkers, but I wish they would register and post.

And if it's so private, what gives with the linked sig banners? Obviously somebody wants people to read it.

And if you're slandering people on it, it becomes that person's business.

[janx]

256. http://www.losthorsepress.org/foodchain/html

There are activists and writers and at least one candidate for Congress active on this site.

There are Americans who are very concerned about the future.

Why do you discredit it? Why?

[Guaranteed]

264. Because this was never about our country or the issues in the first place.

In their eyes, this is nothing but a gang war. They identify with a group- a fucking MESSAGE BOARD- and then they attack all those not, or not wholly, within the group. If you even associate with another group, they start up what my man R.P. McMurphy called a PECKIN' PARTY.

Those posting in anger at PFC are those that are truly not thinking of what's best for their country, their party, or their message board. This is only about anger.

[slinkerwink]

266. and besides, the primary season is over, so they have nothing else to do

but still pick fights with Dean supporters (most of them who are voting for Kerry). So fucking stupid, isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

268. they're all pouting over Dean losing

[KoKo]

280. No, I don't think that's true. I've not seen that over there....and I

would have noticed it. :shrug: why do you make this up?

[wyldwolf]

289. Am I making it up by saying...

...that the only google ads are about Howard Dean?

..that almost half the thread mention Howard Dean? 24 pages worth vs. 18 for the dem nominee John Kerry.

..that one of the mods has a Dean post pinned to the top of the forum page?

...that the most active posters are Dean supporters from DU?

[Brian_Expat]

296. LOL

"Mr. Poster, are you or have you EVER been a member of the Howard Dean campaign?" :eyes:

[Catholic Sensation]

305. I HAVE A LIST OF 207 MEMBERS OF THE HOWARD DEAN CAMPAIGN IN MY HAND

that's right, I have the names of 57 people who worked for Howard Dean's campaign!

[wyldwolf]

317. spin it as you will... I was asked a question and I answered it...

It was denied that it was primarily a Dean board made up of Dean supporters. I showed it was.

[wyldwolf]

331. oh, I see now. This is the old "Dean Underground."

...Dean Underground? Yep! All about Dean from disgruntled Dean supporters.

There is a division growing here among our own camp, and I don't want to be a witness to it. This group was started to give DU Dean supporters a place to go where they would be free of the abuse, censorship and bias on DU. It wasn't a place that required members to be NBD. (That's where I personally stand, but it's not what I expect from others). ABB doesn't mean a person doesn't want Dean to be the nominee just as much as everyone else. It just means that if Dean doesn't win they will consider voting for the nominee. We CANNOT ban ABB and NOT ban NBD. It's either open discussion for both or for neither.

I am also extremely concerned about how exclusive the membership is. I don't feel that someone has to be NBD or be taking part in flame wars to be a member here. There is absolutely NO reason why the Dish files and a bitch about stuff forum can't be hidden from the newer people. If this trend continues, I'm outta here. I don't need the negativity and drama in my life.

283. speaking for myself

(I wrote the 1st paragraph or so as a response to wyldwolf, the rest is really more addressed to all of us)

I'm not pouting over Dean losing.
I've had enough hard knocks and pain in my personal life that I'm not going to pout over a candidate I supported losing.
I would have liked to see him get the nomination.
I was really surprised he got as far as he did.

I think P4C is an interesting place to engage in dialogue, just as I think this place can be.

I grow weary of broad generalizations.
I'm guilty of them sometimes also.

I think people should be treated as the individuals they are and allowed to speak their mind no matter how much I may disagree with them.

I understand that a message board does not have to have the freedom that I think should be guaranteed in the society at large (freedom of speech), but I'm not going to attack whatever message board I go to for having not enough freedom or too much freedom or for allowing or not allowing certain people to post.

When someone allows me into their house I try to treat them with respect.

I understand that when someone feels they are not being treated with respect it wounds them, but isn't there some way to break out of these cycles?

[Pithlet]

269. Oh

It has nothing to do with trashing DU and its members on P4C. Some of the anger in this thread has nothing to do with THAT. Silly us.

[Guaranteed]

273. Why do you think the board started in the first place?

There is PLENTY of blame to go around. Anybody who's bashed anybody has a hand in this.

[Pithlet]

278. So?

Go have your board, free of being bashed for your support of Dean. Simple solution, really. If anyone from here goes over there and trolls, ban them. Not hard, really. When people there call out DU members and bash them, you can pretty much bank on it that they will get upset. Again, not that hard to understand.

In another post, I agreed that the Dean bashing happened, and that I didn't blame those for wanting to start another website. But, I'm sorry, the continued anti-DU bullshit is counterproductive, really.

[nwstrn]

294. Your post makes sense

As applied to the PFC. Kerry Democrats aren't welcome there, just as freepers aren't welcome here. The question is--what happens when Repubs find the site and start freely bashing Kerry? Sadly, they will likely be welcomed with open arms.

[ulysses]

271. christ on a pogo stick

Are we all having fun getting our egos in a twist? Personally, I think the whole topic needs a nice warm glass of shut the fuck up, but that's me...

[Nlighten1]

284. For the LOVE OF GOD!

Let this thread die!

[Walt Starr]

311. I would, but every time I try it goes back to the top

It's like the night of the undead thread!

[salin]

313. are you kidding?

like moths to a flame... compulsive candidate supporter battles/spats ... now framed as board spats... moths to a flame

[Catholic Sensation]

291. *sigh*

The vast majority of the posters there are normal people, with the exception of Scott Lee who's a hypocrite idiot liar. I'm not sure, and not caring, why toil was banned, but since they're not jackasses like the people who post at AmericanForums.net, chances are it was legit.

[Deja Q]

295. Message lacks detail.

Could be trolling.

Could be misunderstanging.

Could be an accident.

Or it could be the Gender Bender getting wholloped by Destructo! :wow: </futurama reference>

Did Dr. Dean himself say he did not want to be labelled "progressive"?

[Catholic Sensation]

299. I believe his camp released a statement saying he wasn't liberal

back in the summer. Bill Maher referred to it when interviewing Wesley Clark before he entered the race.

[trumad]

300. I want to be 300

[salin]

324. wow...

...300... I just hope to make it to my next birthday.... 300 ? Maybe we should call Guiness Book of World Records?

[janx]

327. Look, if you were dishonest enough to pose as "toil"

at another board, then you were behaving very badly.

You were a liar.

There are better things to do than to lie on some web board.

[jpgray]

330. 'People for change' post 330+ times in a worthless flame thread?

I keep hoping to see this disappear. I'm going to hide it, I suggest others do the same. Both sides are making total fools out of themselves. :(

[Moderator]

332. Okay

It's time to take a break from this topic for today.

Thank you.