Are we too "enlightened" for a draft?

[m-jean03]

Wait, don't laugh, not yet.

But isn't the draft, like.. very "middle ages"? Like segregation, and the degree of sexism that existed back then? (My mom came of age in the 60s and she says, all girls could really aspire to be were nurses and teachers.) Regarding the draft, didn't the Vietnam era change things, make it kind of a permanent symbol of horror in the national consciousness? Am I thinking wishfully?

Despite the degree of misinformation and outright criminal behavior in this age, I can't help but feel the era is just too enlightened, we are too attached to personal freedom, for a draft too happen again.

I know this topic has been done to death, but another thread brought it up, so I wanted to ask this question.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. If Diebold smiles on Kerry, maybe they can call it something different

like call to service. Affluent people can be called to do things like attend Homeland Security Neighborhood meetings, and those who have been denied the American Dream can be empowered by the call to the highest form of service, to bring progressive intervention to less fortunate nations.

[m-jean03]

3. Hmm. A new language, you propose

To tell the same old story. Interesting, I see your point. Do you think Kerry would really do this though?

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. How will he staff the Gaza-style occupation of nearly 1/2 the world

without it? Low-grade incursions into Iran, North Africa and Syria have already started.

Even though almost 100% commercials are being used in the Caribbean and sub-Saharan Africa, there is just no way to secure the natural resources and keep the natives under heel in that much of the world without a draft.

Look at Afghanistan - they can't even secure a corridor for pipeline construction.

In Iraq, it's more profitable for Halliburton to repair pipelines than get the oil out, which is fine for now, but Kerry will replace Halliburton, and investors will start wanting their oil.

Even sharing the booty with Old Europe will only help so much - they don't have those kind of numbers to sell.

[m-jean03]

8. Just checked out your blog

Very cool. Have bookmarked it and will return.

[DuctapeFatwa]

11. Thanks! It is threatening to sue me for neglect :) (nt)

[legin]

13. Just to repeat a bit from another thread

From Kerry's recent speech thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=468331&mesg_id=468331

"America's strength is not found in our military alone, but in every area of American life. In small towns and cities across this country, there are judges, public administrators, educators, economists, civil engineers, and public safety professionals. They represent a vast untapped reserve of citizens capable - and I believe willing - to make their contribution to national security. It is time to marshal their skills and experience in service to America. They are an army unto themselves; and today I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places.

Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world -- and reduce pressure on the military."

-------------------------------------
This is a guess, but what it means for me is that these ideas a floating around the corridors of power probably in several different forms, and this is Kerry's take on it. And he has brought into the public domain because versus bush* there is a competition of ideas, and he doesn't want bush* to get a step ahead of him on an important issue. He wouldn't chuck out an idea that was too dippy because he would not want it shot down in flames to his embarrassment. I think the power elite are hatching something nasty behind closed doors. They need to solve their lack of 'occupying troops' problem and they are working through various ideas. But I am completely guessing here.

Think about taking, as you say, the rather archaic idea of the Draft and giving it to the top marketing and advertising companies in the u.s. and letting them re-brand and re-package it. It ain't that difficult 'cause i did it on another thread about 2 months ago, a little paragraph (was having a bright day obviously but can't remember what I wrote).

[legin]

14. The Draft is a negative concept

you have to be conscripted whether you like it or otherwise you end in prison. The Draft is something that everybody tries to avoid like the plague.

That's the first thing that has got to go out the window. This 'New Thing' should be something that you would be utterly stupid to try and get out of. When they do the lottery on television, you are a winner when you get selected, not the other way round.

[DuctapeFatwa]

15. "Hero Sweepstakes?" (nt)

[gate of the sun]

10. you made me smile

nice sarcastic and truthful post. Tell it like it is.

[DuctapeFatwa]

12. Thanks! If I make you think while you smile, my goal is achieved :) (nt)

[furrylitldevil]

2. Vietnam

Should have demonstrated that the draft makes no sense at all. If someone wants to sign up for service, and they know they will be put overseas to fight a war, it's one thing. But when you force people to fight a war they won't necessarily agree with, it's something else.

[smcmike]

4. I guess I am pro-draft

A strange position I know, especially coming from someone who would never volunteer to be in the military, and is basically a pacifist. I feel, however, that there should be a nationwide service requirement, for 2 years, whether it is the military or some other service (like the peace corp or americorp). I think every young person should have to serve. The benefits of this could be immense. First and foremost, it could prevent one of the scariest trends of our time, the increasing seperation of the military from the rest of society. The military is a seperate class in many cases, and no members of congress have to worry about their kids dying in a far off land. If everyone had military service, it would change both the nature of the military and the nature of the national debate over defense. Furthermore, other service plans could be of a great benefit to our country (and abroad), through social programs. Not only that, but through mandatory participation our young people might not feel disenfranchised from politics, and may develop a real sense of citizenship, not to mention valuable skills. So, in that sense, I am pro-draft (though not really DRAFT, since I am not thinking of a random lottery specifically for wartime).

[m-jean03]

6. I have always wondered what it would be like to up and join the Army

I will never do it, but it's this strange fantasy I have. I'm so anti-authoritarian I would probably be kicked out. But I love helicopters and running around in the woods and playing capture the flag. If I had to do national service I would hope that it would involve all of these things, but no actual war, thank you.

As far as what you are suggesting, I see your point, I just don't think it would work. People, especially the young, resent anything they are forced to do. It's just how it is.

16. I was a conscientious objector in Vietnam

& I'm somewhat ambivalently pro-draft. I do mean military draft.
That might be what it takes to get people to become more involved, the possiblity that they will be directly impacted by our government's foreign policy decisions.

[Columbia]

7. It's somewhat common in Europe

These countries still have compulsory military service: Austria, Greece, Switzerland, Germany and the Scandinavian countries.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a peacetime draft like Switzerland to compose a small, defensive force rather than a large standing army that is just begging to be used.

[Zinfandel]

9. Not a chance...BushCo is spread too thin...

A vote for Bush, your voting for the draft. Gotta grab you.

17. I'm afraid your premise is flawed

This one --

, "I can't help but feel the era is just too enlightened, we are too attached to personal freedom, for a draft too happen again."