Is pornography a legitimate business that should be allowed to exist?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

Poll question: Is pornography a legitimate business that should be allowed to exist?

Albeit with regulations in place to prevent exploitation of children, allow parental control etc?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Why not?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Lat's say, sentiments I smell here and there

Wrong sentiments.

[redqueen]

3. This is in response to the kiddy porn thread

Apparently just because some people are upset that merchants wish to market their wares by peddling them as underage -- some are kneejerking and thinking this means people are anti-porn.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. I think there's more than knee jerking going on

If ya know what I mean. (Sorry, I HAD to.) :evilgrin:

[redqueen]

26. LOL

No, thanks. I need a laugh about now.

:cry:

[Warpy]

15. Porn is the price we pay for a free press

...that is, if we ever get one back!

Seriously, it never blew my hair back, but I see no harm for adults who enjoy it. The only problem is the adolescent males who get all their sex education from it and then go out into the world expecting real women to behave like that. It sets them and any women they come into contact with up for misery, and some of them never seem to grow out of it.

[Solomon]

80. You got it backwards! Porn is what guarantees us a free press.

Read about what Larry Flynt has done for free press.

[Skittles]

4. as long as it involves consenting adults

I fail to see the problem, no matter how gross they can be.

[Forosuul]

5. What's more interesting

Is the irony that, if people really wnat to get rid of porn, the best wya to do it would be to remove the puritanical attitudes we have toward sex and the human body.

Sexual repression is the reason that porn has a market, so that the people who hate porn the most are most responsible for its existence.

[IrateCitizen]

23. Ummm... do ya really think that would work???

If people really wnat to get rid of porn, the best wya to do it would be to remove the puritanical attitudes we have toward sex and the human body.

When I was in Amsterdam this past summer, I seem to recall that they didn't have very puritanical attitudes about sex -- and you could find porn EVERYWHERE! I mean, you would see magazine racks with hard-core magazines on the middle shelf. We saw families with kids walking through the sex museums and such. You could get soft-core on regular TV after 11:00 pm.

Given that, I would hardly say that losing our puritanical attitudes would result in LESS porn. But it would most definitely be a good thing to simply not continue to deny that most basic aspect of our human natures -- we are all sexual creatures to varying degrees. Why repress that when it leads to misplaced outlets (like violence and objectification) when we can instead celebrate it?

[nostamj]

6. it is one of the oldest professions.... n/t

[RoeBear]

16. in that regard...

...I recall that within months of the camera being invented in the 1800's nude pictures of women started showing up.

[nostamj]

25. i was thinking more like cave paintings and

erotic Greek vases but that too, that too!

[khashka]

65. That reminds me

John Varley once said that Alexander Graham Bell invented not the phone but phone sex. The first call is immortalized as "Watson I need you". Varley says it was really "Watson I need you. What are you wearing?"

All tech immediately gets used for sex. There is a lesson (and a lot of fun) in that.

Khash.

[0007]

7. There is a supply and demand - let it flow, but only with controls

[girl gone mad]

8. Is it legit?

It could be, but often times I think it is not.

Unfortunately, I had a friend get caught up in that "industry" and from what I witnessed, a lot of these guys are essentially mobsters and thugs.

[khashka]

66. That used to be true

At one time Porn and Mafia were essentially the same words. But that's been changing. As more and more people start documenting and distributing their own porn, as more female porn stars start directing and producing their own movies, it's being taken out of the hands of the gangsters.

Cool. Let's liberate porn!

I spent several years in the sex industry. The problem wasn't being a sex worker so much as how sex workers are treated: contempt, low pay, bad working conditions. We don't need to get rid of it, we need to make it better both for the consumers and the people who do it.

Khash.

[DrWeird]

9. To people who may vote no...

If you don't use pornography, what the hell are you looking at when you masturbate?

[girl gone mad]

12. No one has voted no,

but what you're asking is different than asking if it is a legitimate business.

for instance, I might look at porn occasionally, but I wouldn't pay someone for it.

[FreeState]

10. I work for an 'Adult Company'

It pays the bills. Its a small company that I do the website design and print work for. I would wager that most people would be surprised at what the work environment is like.

I have no set hours. I just have to work 40+ hours a week. I get 4 weeks paid vacation. I have full insurance paid by my employer (nothing taken from my check). I have 13 official holidays. I don't get paid a lot, about average for the work.

We pride ourselves in keeping adult material away from minors and easily accessible to consenting adults. We don't span. We don't sell email lists or mailing lists.

We only put out a movie a year on average. All out 'stars' are paid well and treated with respect.

Adult does not have to mean 'sleazy'. At least not at this company:)

[MurrayDelph]

18. Me, too.

It's a phone sex company (I am not one of the "actors"), and I have to mention that ever since this industry came into its own, I have not received an obscene phone call.

[khashka]

67. Can I get a job with your company?

I've had both incredidly great experiences and incredibly bad ones in the sex industry.

In college I worked for an "escort service". I just stayed up all night answering phones and setting up dates. The woman who ran it treated everyone with respect and grace. And it didn't just pay the bills. We all got paid very well.

Then I worked for a video company doing much the same as you. (Although I did appear on screen once - but the camera does not love me:() I really got shafted that time.

Then I spent nine months as a prostitute while I was in graduate school. I thought it would be endless degradation but lotsa cash (and I needed cash). It wasn't. Mostly it was very pleasant. A hell of a lot better than the legit jobs I was also working at. I had better hours, was treated better. And, quite frankly I loved it. (During that I got pneumonia. My legit job fired me, my "johns" came over and made me soup and cleaned the damn cat box and took me to the doctor - which would you choose?)

Although many people think what we do is sleazy, the way we do it often isn't. I'll trust a pornographer quicker than I'll trust a mainstream corporation. Because too often our values are actually higher.

Khash.

[Terran]

11. Uh, helloooo?

First Amendment?

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Just so long as your left hand doesn't know what your right hand is doing.

http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/

[Endangered Specie]

30. For us lefties, its reversed

[khashka]

68. I try to get my left hand involved

just so it doesn't feel lonely :)

[boobooday]

14. Killing is a business, sex seems much more benign than that

In my opinion. People make billions out of weapons of death. This seems far more immoral than making money from movies that show people engaged in normal (well, mostly) human activities.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[FlaGranny]

17. I voted yes, of course.

I have no problem with pornography. I've been known to watch it and even enjoy it. I would also add prostitution to that - although I have never tried that. :-)

[Stargleamer]

19. Pornography is harm to women

Like prostitution, pornography hurts women by exploiting women. It objectifies women, in the eyes of its consumers. It leads to sexual abuse, including women, as well as a coarsening of attitudes towards women. Men masturbate to it, and then they want to go out and do it.

[IrateCitizen]

21. What hyperbolic tripe!

When I met my wife, she was even MORE into porn than I am. To this day, it is a healthy part of the sexual aspect of our relationship.

To characterize porn as "objectifying" women any more than just about anything else in our society is just plain bunk. Women AND men are objectified by society each and every time you walk out your front door or turn on your TV or radio.

[Stargleamer]

45. Whatever your and wife do...

Doesn't diminish what is going on in the lives of others. Yes, there are women who get off on pornography too. But when women testify they have been harmed by and/or because of pornography, do you turn a deaf ear? No pornography doesn't make all its users into rapists, sadists or masochists. But it does affect the minds of most of its consumers, and those who masturbate to it do often attempt to live out their fantasies in 3-D, and some of these pornography-induced fantasies are quite violent.

A good place to start to listen to women's stories on how they were harmed by pornography is the book, "In Harm's Way: The Pornography Civil Rights Hearings" edited by Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin (Harvard University Press).

[khashka]

70. Oh Good God

Miss Kitty and Dworkin!

Of course Ms. Dworkin has written a book where she claims all and I do mean all acts of penetration are necessarily RAPE. That nice married couple down the street? And she initiates sex? Well he raped her.

Gimme a break.

Referencing Catharine MacKinnon or Andrea Dworkin is no way to prove anything. It just makes you look a bit silly.

[bread_and_roses]

22. The question is

do we have the right to outlaw a form of expression because some people will react by "objectifying" its' subject?

[Stargleamer]

43. Child pornography, a form of expression, was outlawed

in the Supreme Court's Ferber decision. It was recognized there that children are harmed by and because of pornography.

Those who defend pornography often think that while it can harm children, once someone reaches 18 they can no longer be harmed any more. They can be shown bound and gagged, penetrated with objects, begging for mercy, and there's no longer any harm. Do women willingly go into pornography (yes, some do, but I'm talking about the majority)or is it exploitation from poverty and pimps that send them there, like Dorothy Stratten was?

If you don't think women are harmed in pornography, then read the book "In Harm's Way: the Pornography Civil Rights Hearings" edited by Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin (Harvard University Press). There and in a number of other places women relate on how they hurt by pornography.

[Hippo_Tron]

48. Not all poor women go into the pornography business...

And it's not they have the option not to do so. It may be something that's harmful to people over 18 but I don't believe that the government has the right or the responsibility to stop adults from buying or making poronography.

[Stargleamer]

56. It doesn't have to every one in a group for a group to be exploited

Not every poor person in Mexico, comes up to this country to be exploited and paid lower-than-minimum wages. Does that mean those who do, aren't exploited? Yes, not all poor women turn to prostitution or pornography, does that mean those who do, aren't exploited?

And yes, there might be some who turn to stripping or pornography to get through college--if it's the choice is that or flipping burgers or some other menial job, that still counts as exploitation. You should look at collection of groups of people not small subsets, do college grad wannabes represent the vast majority of women who wind up in pornography or prostitution?

When a group of hunters looking at pornography look up at a 18 year old woman, and say to themselves, "there's a live one" and proceed to rape her, what do you say to her afterwards? Sorry free speech trumps your hurt, your life?

[Endangered Specie]

32. Actually, its been shown that porn reduces sex crimes...

it give us men a 'release' in private, as opposed to trying to get it in real life.

Oh, and the women do choose to go into porn btw.

[Stargleamer]

44. If you know of studies I don't

then feel free to mention them. The one study (by Berl Kutchinsky, I believe)that supports what you say and that I am familiar with has been discredited.

In any case, whatever release you may obtain doesn't mean that there are not countless other men in prison for rape, men who masturbating to pornography was no longer sufficient and they went out and inflicted their fantasies on others.

And what of the women in pornography? Do you think the vast majority of them want to be there? Do you think prostitutes willingly chose to be prostitutes? Will you ever be able to see the plight of exploited women?

[Hippo_Tron]

50. Well prostitution is illegal...

However some women choose to be strippers or even prostitutes as a way to make some cash to pay for college.

[Djinn]

57. Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin

are not THE experts in this field - the have opinions (to my mind some valid points but they make the mistake of talking in sweeping generalisations)

I do not beleive pornography objectifies or exploits women per se - I think the ATTITUDE we as a society have to sex (and by extension - pornography) causes the problems...imagine if meeting a stranger at a party and saying "I'm an actress in adult films" got teh same reaction as "I work in a grocery store" sex is morally neutral - what we do with it and think of it makes it otherwise.

My main worry with porn is that some young (and old) blokes get a warped idea about female sexuality if mainstream porn is ALL they see (and don't meet or can't talk to real women) I think that would cease to be a problem if discussions about sex and sexuality weren't taboo.

One thing I like about mainstream porn is that women are allowed to actually BE INTO sex in them - in all other forms of media the women needs to be seduced she can not be the seducer unless she's also a psycho (Fatal Attraction and that awful Demi Moore movie) porn show women who LIKE having sex, they're not just "laying there thinking of England"

[Deja Q]

33. That sounds like a pre-programmed response. Try some reality:

Porn exacerbates a problem, or resolves it?

I don't think so.

Case in point:

Who needs porn?

I do.

I am socially awkward and can't even get a date.

My life is shit, get it?

If I didn't have porn, I'd have gone crackers years ago.

At least I have an outlet.

Either way, I'm going to want to go out and do it somehow. But I've settled for all I can get. Why bother with people who think I'm a freak when I can just stay at home and be my usual harmless self?

[Stargleamer]

46. Well, Here's hoping that your life will improve...

and that you'll be able to develop deep, empathic and caring connections with others. I don't see that as happening while you use pornography, but you may defy the odds and find such a connection anyhow.

In any case, what may be harmless for you has not proved to be harmless for countless men in prison cells, imprisoned for rape, rape that their pornography-influenced sexuality caused.

[Djinn]

58. what????

"be able to develop deep, empathic and caring connections with others. I don't see that as happening while you use pornography, but you may defy the odds and find such a connection anyhow"

I live within 5kms of three sex shops (selling hard core porn and sex "toys") the stores are clean, brightly lit and OVERWHELMING FREQUENTED BY COUPLES I have rarely seen single men or women in them.

How can you make the "defying the odds" statement? The porn industry IS MASSIVE - do you really beleive it's people sitting home alone buying it all?? It's not - it's people in deep, empathic and caring relationships.

As for the "imprisoned for rape, rape that their pornography-influenced sexuality caused." comment, well that's too offensive for words and does nothing more than to absolve rapist from ALL or some culpability for their actions. Has it ever occurred to you that it's not "porn users become rapists" but that rapists (like a majority of men and more and more women) use porn - it's not neccesrily cause and effect - eg - Al Qaeda are Muslims - not ALL Muslims are Al Qaeda

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

75. I liked pornography since my 'nads started functioning and...

...that didn't stop me from finding the best spouse in the world. In fact, it didn't influence the "odds" in the least. We met, we fell in love, we married. I'm not a raging psycho, I bathe every day, I work for my living and I don't beat people up. In short, I'm not screwed-up. The shock!

You may think I'm one of the "lucky few", but I suspect it's not "few" by any stretch of the imagination.

Or it may be that I live in a country where people have a healthier attitude towards sex.

[adamblast]

34. The porn I enjoy doesn't even *HAVE* women!! :D (n/t)

[khashka]

72. Well sometimes not

What was that Joe Gage film? Was it LA Tool and Die or Kansas City Trucking Company?

Anyway, Georgina Spelvin was in it :)

[EV1Ltimm]

35. "Men masturbate to it, and then they want to go out and do it"

Really? I normally just masturbate to it and then go to bed.

I guess i'm just old fashioned.

[Hippo_Tron]

52. Nah, it's just that men like us have brains...

We don't think with our cocks; unlike a certain president of the united states.

[khashka]

73. Not old fashioned

Just not hip or cool enough to exploit women :)

Sweet dreams.

[MadProphetMargin]

40. Ed Meese? Is that YOU?

"It leads to sexual abuse"

I thought you got sent to prison, Big Ed!

[Shifty-Eyed Llama]

41. Harm to women? What???????

I masturbate to porn and I go to sleep.

What gives you the idea that after I'm done that I'll go out and do it? I don't.

What a bunch of crock.

[Stargleamer]

47. You speak only for yourself...

whereas women, from Linda Lovelace to the present, have provided testimony on how they were harmed by pornography. I'm glad that you evidently haven't hurt any women, but countless other men have. If you don't believe women have been harmed by pornography, then listen to the testimony they give in Linda Lovelace's book, "Ordeal" and in the book, "In Harm's Way: The Pornography Civil Rights Hearings" edited by Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin (Harvard University Press).

[Djinn]

59. and they only speak for themselves

as I stated earlier, my mine criticism of Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin is that they take some examples and spin them out to fit the whole of society.

Think about the alcohol argument - alcohol completely and totally ruins some peoples lives - the vast and overwhelming majority of people can have a drink now and then without a problem. When people TRY to ban alcohol the people who would have otherwise had an alcohol problem have a drain cleaner problem instead.

Do you think women weren't raped before porn??

[corporatewhore]

62. watch the naked feminist read betty dodson there iswoman produced porn

with arousing women in mind

[khashka]

69. Really?

>Like prostitution,

Uh, no. I'm sure there are whores who don't like their jobs. But I've been there and done that and most of 'em are having fun. Funny you think a 20 dollar blow job is exploitation. But what about the women who clean other people's toilets for less than minimum wage? Now that's exploitation.

>It objectifies women, in the eyes of its consumers.

How? And why is objectification always a guy thing? Women don't do it too? How about all those women who swoon over male movie stars? They don't know them, know what they think, what makes them laugh or wake up in the night crying. All they know is what they look like. Objectification, in other words.

>It leads to sexual abuse

Well, it leads to sex or at least masturbation.

>as well as a coarsening of attitudes towards women.

Coarsening? Can it get much worse than it already is? Actually porn portrays women as sexual beings, as people with enough guts to get what the want sexually. That's a good thing. Is there bad porn? Sure. Is there good porn? Damn right there is!

>Men masturbate to it

Duh! So do a lot of women.

>and then they want to go out and do it.

Wrong. The porn you enjoy is not necessarily what you would want to do in real life. There are lesbians who can't get enough gay male porn. Straight women who get hot over lesbian scenes. Gay guys who masturbate to hetero porn. Do any of these people want to do these things? No way.

You seem to be saying "monkey see, monkey do". But even monkeys don't act like that.

Khash.

[corporatewhore]

78. i wonder if they even know there is porn produced by women

with women in mind and they have been front and behind the camera and they enjoy it

[Blueshift]

20. If I had the guts...I'd star in porn.

:D

[Bridget Burke]

28. It's not your "guts" that need to meet the standards....

I hear they're very stiff (the standards, that is).

[redqueen]

27. Of course it is

As long as it is strictly regulated to protect the rights of those who might be exploited.

[Jacobin]

29. Define "porn"

Its the beginning and the end of the "debate".

I define it has gruesome bloody displays of humans. I consider The Passion to be pornographic and disgusting and sado masochistic and it should be rated X and not R.

I suspect other might disagree with me.

Accordingly, let's all just choose to look at what we want to and ignore the resgt

[redqueen]

31. Well of course they're referring to sexual porn

What you're referring to I call violent porn.

There's also the pornography of wealth, but that's a whole other topic.

[redqueen]

36. Nobody at all wants to discuss the pornography of wealth?

Oh well, another day, perhaps.

[absyntheNsugar]

37. Porn is good for you!

Honestly, I wonder how many marriages have been saved because of it.

[dawn]

38. Yes.

[Shifty-Eyed Llama]

39. Yes, of course it is.

As long as the models are 18 or above, then there is no problem with porn. :)

[John BigBootay]

42. Yes-- but it invites terrorism (/sarcasm) n/t

[mopinko]

49. in a perfect world, yes

in this one, it ought to be a heavily regulated business. both in the making and in the distribution.
and women aren't really making a free choice as long as they are not really free and equal.
but sending it underground certainly serves no purpose but to make it more thrilling.

[ButterflyBlood]

51. porn = good

n/t

[fujiyama]

53. Yes...

But of course there should be regulation -- no kiddie porn and no exploitation.

[SarahB]

54. They need to unionize

They have basically nothing in regards to workers' rights- no sick pay, no worker's comp, no health insurance, etc. Aside from that issue, if they're consenting adults, I have no problems.

[WillyT]

55. My Pornograph Hasn't Worked For Years !!!

And now my CD Player is flakin out too!

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

76. LOL! This one takes the prize! (nt)

[Demonaut]

60. i slept with a sixteen year old

when i was sixteen

[Dark Angel]

61. Yes,

with regulations. Only people 18+ should be allowed to participate in pornographic ventures, etc.

[guitar man]

63. Oh yea

I believe the production companies should have to adhere to strict standards for working conditions,health cconcerns etc. and ADULTS ONLY! Anyone caught making,selling or posessing kiddie porn should be punished by catapault!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. Catapult?

And risk them landing in a soft place? No way.

[corporatewhore]

64. Watched a great documentary on Porn and feminism woman produced porn

with women in mind the documentary won an award at SXSW

[Dr Fate]

71. I can make shit up in my MIND that is better than any porn.

Most of the porn I've seen is lame. It does seem to involve hooking young girls on drugs and making them do freaky things.

I admit I watch it on rare occasion- but honestly, I'm usually disappointed! Like I said, I can make shit up in my MIND that is better than any porn.

[khashka]

74. Well Dr Fate

Film it for God's sake!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. DRUGS?????

That's evil, man! What kind of porn you were watching? I never saw anything like that. (unless you consider a glass of champagne a drug)

[Dr Fate]

81. I'm talking about REALITY- in the porn industry- not the plot...

...I'm talking about the fact that Porn makers often hook young girls on drugs- and that is uncool.

I'm not talking about a plot in a film or a sex fantasy- I'm talking about what goes on in the porn industry...

Please dont misunderstand me on this...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. This, if true, amounts to rape

And are worthy of an extremely prejudiced bust. Much different from "resorting to this line of business to make a buck". This is rape, and should be treated as such. I suppose there may have been known, prosecuted cases?

[Dr Fate]

83. I dont know about any actual prosecutions...

But I do no that drugs are pretty widespread in Porn, and I aint just talking pot & beer.

A lot of these young girls are hooked and are manipulated. Technically rape? I dont know, but I agree that it is not good.

That's why you should MAKE IT UP IN YOUR MIND, Like I do!!

[Baclava]

84. I can't believe it...

All these responses are about porn and women!
What about the poor men constantly having to "perform" countless sex acts servicing all those young trollups?

If you've even seen all the internet porn scenes - it's always only the women who are smiling at the camera.....men are once again resigned to live lives of drugery......

[TreasonousBastard]

85. Sure...

the films are every bit as legitimate as Schwollenpecker or Willis killing by the thousands, and the mags every bit as legitimate as Soldier of Fortune.

As a business, it's every bit as legitimate as cigarette companies and landmine manufacturers.

Methinks we have our definitions of pornography and obscenity slightly skewed.