Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Vigilantes Troll for Pedophiles

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
HollywoodLiberal Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:23 PM
Original message
Vigilantes Troll for Pedophiles
Last November, a 29-year-old Portland, Oregon, man was cruising the city's Yahoo chat room when he struck up a conversation with a 14-year-old girl using the handle "misspunkgirlie13." The conversation quickly turned to sex.

"i'm 29.. your 14 and adorable," he wrote the girl, who flirted back. He e-mailed her a picture of his penis and a couple of pornographic video clips, then arranged to meet her at her apartment when her mother was out of town.

A few days later, he drove an hour to the girl's home and knocked on the door. When it opened, he found himself face-to-face with two large men -- one wielding a baseball bat and the other, a video camera. They followed him back to his minivan, berating him for soliciting sex with a minor and filming his hasty retreat.

Within hours, the man's libidinous chat transcript, picture, cell-phone number and e-mail address were posted to Perverted-Justice.com, a website run by vigilantes across the United States who troll regional chat rooms hunting for would-be pedophiles.


Perverted Justice has made more than 600 such busts since it was formed in July 2002. The group's volunteers pose as kids in chat rooms, and when an adult engages them in sexual banter, they publish the person's personal data on the site so the group's supporters can harass the adult by phone and e-mail.

The group says it's protecting children from sexual predators, but critics say its aggressive tactics seldom lead to convictions.

Among the men -- and two women -- busted by the group are a wrestling promoter, a high-school teacher and a registered sex offender.

In several cases, the activists have gotten men fired after finding out where they work and sending the damning chat logs and pictures to their bosses.

The group is the brainchild of a 24-year-old Portland computer technician who goes by the moniker "Xavier von Erck." (Von Erck and the site's volunteers don't disclose their real names, fearing retribution by the people they've "outed.")

Von Erck said he was inspired to action after learning how many of his female friends were molested as kids and how many would-be pedophiles lurked in regional chat rooms.

"Myself and another local man named Frank set out to clean up our Portland chat room," said von Erck. "Well, it worked a little too well, and a few too many people wanted to help out. So after we exhausted the Portland rooms, we moved on. And kept going into what you see today."

While some Perverted Justice contributors simply out their marks during illicit chats and tell them their data will be posted to the site, a volunteer named "Frank Fencepost" has men show up at his apartment bearing food, and answers the door with a baseball bat and a camera. (Fencepost did not respond to interview requests for this article.)

The men snared by the group are given a chance to explain their actions in "right of reply" letters, which are posted on the site. Most contend they have learned their lesson and beg the site to take down their phone numbers so people will stop harassing them.

"People pm me all the time and tell me that they are going to find me and hurt me, threaten to kill me, and etc.... i cry at night sometimes cause i fear for my life, since people seem to see what i look like, im very scared," wrote a 20-year-old who asked that his picture be taken off the site.

"I want to write and apologize for what I have done. I am someone with a problem and (am) finding help for it. I have told my family about this and now I living with a friend of mine. I have been kicked out of my house indifenitely," wrote a married Arizona man.


In recent months, the group has worked with television stations in eight cities across the nation to bust men on camera. In these media busts, Perverted Justice directs groups of men to a rented home in a residential area for what they believe will be a tryst with an adolescent girl; instead the men are greeted by a camera crew and a reporter sticking a microphone in their faces. In February, 16 men showed up for such a sting in Missouri and 20 showed up in Detroit.

The sensational reports have irked some communities, which have accused the group and the TV stations of endangering local children by bringing sexual predators into their neighborhoods.

Law enforcement officials and seasoned activists who work as decoys in Internet pedophilia investigations have also denounced the group's methods.

"The biggest difference between them and us is that we are governed by entrapment laws," said Sgt. Nick Battaglia, who heads the police department's child exploitation unit in San Jose, California. "Their hearts are in the right place, but the law needs to be enforced by someone who is qualified to enforce them. They need to be very careful or they could get in trouble themselves."

.......continued.............

http://perverted-justice.com/

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,62650,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Perverts, eh?
One of these days, somebody who isn't a pedophile is going to get his unlucky ass lynched by a bunch of these more socially-acceptable sickos.

Shit, say hello to The Fan.

Dudes, track the creeps and then turn 'em in to the cops. Let the guys with the badges and the gavels sort it out. Your children will thank you.

--bkl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree their methods are not entirely acceptable
but people trolling for sexual favors from 14 year olds ARE perverts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Well, whaddaya know?
Xavier von Erck, a.k.a. "AngryGerman (at) angrygerman.com", linked Perverted-Justice back to SuperPatriot.net, but SuperPatriot.net was down for upgrades or repairs or something.

AngryGerman.com seems to be his blog. He also writes at The New America Myth (NAMyth.com). It looks like a standard-issue Libertatian "Socialists=Nazis" site, probably because he's gotten so much crap about being a Nazi himself. (Must be that "Angry German" thing.)

The guy is far from stupid, though. None of the typical mouth-breathing Freeper stuff. All the anger, rage, pomp, and ideological stridency, but none of the drool.

Yes, the standard claim is there -- he's Yet Another Equal-Opportunity Offender who Pisses Off Both Liberals and Conservatives.

Check out Xavier's oeuvre to see how these defenders of our freedoms think, work, and enforce patriotic justice. The sites are slow to load and occasionally time-out, but worth a look.

--bkl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. got a link? I'd like to see that...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. All through the post
SuperPatriot.net, AngryGerman.com, NAMyth.com

Type 'em in and wait for the slow feed to fill your web browser.

--bkl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Hey, they get off to it.
They get to pretend they're pure, innocent little girls. Then they get to beat up some perverts.

I agree they should let the police handle it. But it wouldn't be as much fun.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. I read that site a while back when another poster had it up
I had the sinking feeling when reading some of the telephone transcripts that the site provides, that this could be a great draw for pervs who get off on this stuff. Some of it was really nasty considering the ages they pretended to be.I believe they should take down those phone conversations or risk looking like perverts themselves.

But thats just my opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm tiring of this debate - but I'll put in my two cents here
Vigalantes busting a 40 y.o. chatting dirty with a supposed underage minor is one thing - but this site seems to bust with equal relish a 20 y.o. guy doing the same thing - in my mind there is a difference as no real crime has been committed - it seems that many of the "busts" didn't try to meet up...

another thing: anyone can pretend to be anything they want to be on the internet...

that being said - overall, this site does some good work...

also: who would want to spend their time posing as underage girls in chatroom? It makes ya wonder...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I'll explain
Anyone who has been sexually abused. I'm positive they would GLADLY help troll for these monsters and turn them over to police IN A HEARTBEAT.

So would many people whose loved ones have been abused, and who know the lifelong problems it leaves you with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. is that 20 y.o. boy a "monster"
I don't think so...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I wouldn't be so bold as to assume
Did he try to 'hook up' with a 13 year old? I knew a 13 year old who did this when the net was first starting up, with a 20 year old, and I did indeed, and still do, consider him to be a monster. A selfish, pigheaded, manipulative, bastard of a monster.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. the vigs pose as 15, 16 y.o. girls too
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 03:59 PM by rumguy
a 20 y.o. kid who talks dirty with one isn't a monster, sorry, just isn't - wrong, yes - stupid, yes - but not a monster...

Further if a 20 y.o. has sex with a a 16 y.o. he should probably be prosecuted for statutory rape - but that does not make him a pedophile...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes!
He sent pictures of his penis over the net to a 14 year old! And went to meet her at her house while her "mother was away."

14!!!

It's not like a 20 year old and an 18 year old.

That girl might not even have her period yet. She's a girl.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. wait - that was the 29 y.o.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 04:00 PM by rumguy
and that is sick and wrong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. You can not
possibly be sticking up for garbage like this...can you?
Molestation fucks people up FOR LIFE!!
Tell me you don't think they are being treated badly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I'm making reference to the 20 y.o. kid in the article - nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Website sucks.
It's sllllooooooooowwwwwww!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good for them!
I'm all for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. To provide a counterbalance:
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 04:08 PM by redqueen
Ross Cheit seeks more accurate analysis of child molestation data
His research shows that child molesters rarely serve `serious time'

Child molestation, like other capital offenses such as murder, carries a maximum sentence of life behind bars. But few people in Rhode Island charged with sexual crimes against children serve significant amounts of jail time, according to Ross Cheit, professor of political science and public policy.

An electronic analysis by Cheit of the outcomes for those charged with child molestation from 1985-1993 revealed that 70 percent of those found guilty did not serve jail time. "Most people think that if found guilty of a felony sex offense against a child you'll serve serious time, but that is rarely the case," said Cheit.

Past studies of people convicted of sexual crimes against children have shown that the average jail sentence is five to six years, a conclusion that Cheit says "is absolutely not true." Cheit contends that those studies are not comprehensive and therefore do not provide an accurate picture of punishment rates for those convicted of child molestation. For Cheit's analysis, "we said let's take a look at every person in a given year" who was charged with child molestation. "Other studies have only picked the worst cases," he noted.

In addition, past studies have been flawed, Cheit says, because they did not distinguish whether the individual was charged with multiple offenses. "The heaviest sentences went to those who had additional charges," he said. "In Rhode Island it appears that only first-degree child molestation cases are taken seriously."

(more... warning, it's upsetting - and this is just RI... imagine how things go in, shall we say... less enlightened places)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. can anyone come up with a reason a 14-year old would...
want to have sex with a grown man in the first place?

Why isn't anyone asking this question?

We look deeply into what causes grown men to want to have sex with kids, what makes kids want to have sex with grown men?

(of course, I'm speaking of the kids who consentually want to have sex with adults)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Past sexual abuse is THE NUMBER ONE REASON
Also our society is sexualizing children incessantly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. If you apply Freud's reaction formation idea on these guys
They are really taking out their aggression on others because they have the same tendencies. They fear the evil that lives in themselves yet they can't come to beating themselves so they beat others with the same tendencies. Of course this is sick behavior no matter how evil the victims are.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terryg11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. sounds good in some cases
yet I wouldn't doubt there are some people out there who would do this either from a past experience, not necessarily involving them but maybe a friend or family member was hurt in a similar way. Or they could just be overprotective fathers/parents/guardians whatever. While I don't know if I necessarily condone the actions I sure as hell understand them. Thre are some very twisted and scary people out there who just love children
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thingfish Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. I dunno about that. Even if your Freudian scenario were true, then...
...they would be targeting those idiots not for being like them, but for FAILING to be like them. After all, they're successfully repressing their secret pedophiliac urges, while their targets are NOT.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eissa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Sometimes it's hard to believe
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 04:26 PM by eissa
that I'm actually at an intellectual, progressive site when I read crap defending pedophiles. God, how many of these threads have been posted recently? Get a grip people -- there are far more deserving people of your sympathy and activism than some pervert trying to fuck some kid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. So it's OK to beat up someone who you think is a pedo if your a Dem?
Edited on Thu Mar-18-04 04:20 PM by Mountainman
We have laws in this country against assault and battery. A good Dem would not violate those laws I would think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thingfish Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. They don't beat them. They scare them.
Try reading an article before posting an opinion on it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. To be fair
They do seem to be inviting disaster by publishing these criminal's personal information.

If only they were appropriately punished, maybe these types of vigilantes would feel more productive giving the info to the police.

As it stands now, though...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HollywoodLiberal Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Don't join the lynch mobs just yet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. a phone call from what sounded like a middle-aged woman
and was one! hmmm..sounds like this guy has a case...

the funniest part was when he didn't run from the cameras, and they ended up asking him to leave!

and then all the "outraged" morons who called his house screaming obsenities into his answering machine - that type of brainless outrage is the lowest form of human emotion and existence
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
27. Priorities and resources
The government takes weeks (months?!) going after Martha Stewart when they could be taking the time to go after pedophiles. And all this HOMELAND SECURITY hoohah and making everybody take their shoes off at airports. Bah.


I think that it would be easy to prosecute internet pedophiles and I don't know why more isn't being done. Priorities, I tell you.



And to whoever thinks it is (or was) OK for 20 year olds to go after girls on the internet or elsewhere. SORRY> you are wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. The fact that these aren't prosecuted effectively
is a big deal to many.

Look into the sex slave trade -- that'll open your eyes to a whole new world of anger and confusion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mick Knox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Good For Them!
Great idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. For the perv-haters: why "PeeJ" is a vigilante group
It's run by Xavier von Erck. He is a hard-core Libertarian, and if you'd take the time to read some of the political writings he's posted on his blog and his ideology sites, you'd see exactly what kind of hard-core Libertarian he is.

He has a bad case of the militia bug. Since he doesn't like Big Gummint, why should he want the Feds to steal any of his thunder?

He's intelligent, he's got a sense of ethics, but he's completely radically anti-government. Not a Tim McVeigh kind a guy, but look what kind of element he's attracting. The intellectual militiaman tends to be pretty law-abiding, but the hangers-on are often violent criminals. And I have to wonder what kind of hangers-on he has.

The local NBC news team in Philadelphia pulled the same stunt once they found the website, and Xavier flew out here for a week. The "bust" ended up attracting many more sexual predators than they bargained for. The neighbors were disturbed by it, to say the least. The ratings were boffo, but charges are now pending against a couple of journalists.

Vigilantism has a long and sordid history. Without a basis in some kind of law, even a rough-and-ready frontier law, it quickly breaks down into savagery. This isn't some liberal pipe-dream of mine, it's a very well-established pattern all through history.

The "cure" for pedophilia in society includes education, putting an end to the pop-sexualization of children, teaching children about their own sexuality and how to avoid being victimized, remediation of poverty and family violence, and a penal system that truly protects victims, society, and still strives to recover the undeserving.

It's a little like Hillary said: It may take a village, but it certainly can not be a blood-simple mob. Justice is difficult; healing is difficult; and it may infuriate some people that pedophiles are not tortured slowly to death. But my concern isn't particularly for the predator. It's for my society -- that it doesn't catch the disease that creates individual predators. Because a predatory society is a suicidal society -- with lots of orphans.

--bkl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC