THINKING BIG: Making the DU INDISPENSABLE In National Politics

[ulTRAX]

Permit me to ramble a bit.

As possibly the premier Progressive Left site on the web... what should its role be? Is this just an information site? A place to rant or discuss ideas? A place to network? I'm thinking bigger. I think DU should aim for nothing less than using grassroots energy to reshape American politics and our political system.

There is another Democratic board that markets itself as Democratic Think Tank. It's not doing that well.... maybe 5-10 posts a day. But I see SO much potential HERE to serve as such function. We dont have to be Rhode Scholars, have doctorates in PoliSci or work at Brookings to think big. Look how the Deaniacs helped shape that campaign.

I believe that can be accomplished by revamping the topics of the forums. Think about the function of such forums. They serve to bring people together around a topic of mutual interest. If the topic is too narrow the forum languishes. If the topic is too broad like the General Discussion forum.... it becomes a mess. Currently great discussions are being duplicated and lost in the GR board. It's averaging about 280 threads a day...not posts... THREADS. The Campaign 2004 forum gets about 155 threads a day. Good ideas are being lost simply because the pace is so frantic they can't be developed fully... it's too hard to find a topic of interest... or there's duplicate threads on the same topic which deprives a topic of synergy of ALL those interested in that topic. In a few days they're archived and locked... and the random discussions begin again... and again. Anyone interested in what dedicated Progressives are thinking would have to wade though a sea of posts to find some gems. It's a lost opportunity to build up DU and for those who could benefit from an additional source of ideas. Why is that important?

I'd like to see the 2004 Campaign forums subdivided. One on the issues of the day... a few that give our advice to the Kerry campaign.... on both short-term tactics and long term strategies. Will The Kerry campaign listen? I've seen some GREAT ideas for the Kerry campaign... but who reads them now? We have to prove ourselves.

DU already gets some national attention. It's time to make DU indispensable not just with the quality of our ideas but how efficiently we generate them... and much of that depends on how the forums are structured. Under the Campaign 2004 header I'd like to also see forums on devising and coordinating inexpensive pro-Kerry activities on the local level.... advice on how to run local candidates.. etc.

I'd like to see another grouping of forums on longer range ideas of where Progressives want to take this nation. Unless we have that shared vision for a Progressive agenda for reform.... then 20-40 years from now the Progressive movement will still be trying to tweak a dysfunctional political and corporate system.... as corporations continue to run amok and our federal government becomes more anti-democratic and more reform-proof.

I believe that the DU contains such a great assemblage of politically like-minded people it's a tremendous political resource... if it can only be effectively harnessed. Once that snowball gets rolling, additional synergistic processes start up: a good reputation attracts more talent. Can anyone else see the possibilities?

[freeforall]

1. Excellent Idea!

I, too, have noticed that there are many duplicate topics, and we just get a nice thread going and it is locked. It would be great to have some serious discussion as well as forums for quick comments.

[goclark]

2. I see wisdom in your words

I am a fairly new poster. It is difficult sometimes for me to find the Messages that hit my hot buttons.

I like your "Creative Ideas For The Campaign" forum - I read magical ideas within a tread that I wish John Kerry could read right away.

I like the Late Breaking News

I think there should be one location that alerts all of us... "Let Them Hear From You" that would be for anything that needs our immediate attention..emailing a Congressperson or something critical involving the media. Sometimes I just happen upon a very important and time sensitive post that needs an instant response by email or a phone call.

Just a few thoughts from a novice at DU.

I am in no way complaining, this is my favorite website ever!




:grouphug:

[ulTRAX]

4. I felt the same way

goclark wrote: "I like your "Creative Ideas For The Campaign" forum - I read magical ideas within a tread that I wish John Kerry could read right away."

There was a discussion a week or so ago about how Kerry should handle the possibility that Bin Laden might be captured or killed soon. The ideas were soooooo good you just wanted to scream at Kerry not to fall into Bush's trap. Yet here in GD and even in the existing Campaign 02 forum.. the pace is to fast and such gems are lost.

If Bin Laden is captured or killed and Kerry is caught flat-footed... I'd be really pissed that some good ideas might not have reached him in time to do some good. It was that example that got me thinking about the TRUE impact the DU could have.

[nicecakes]

3. Too much management for a chaotic crowd

Too many flavors of Democrats to agree on much more than winning.

[ulTRAX]

6. management?

Creating new forums doesn't require much management. DU merely serves as a facilitator in dividing up forums and moderators would do what they always do. The diversity of opinion would be spread among more focused topics.

[KoKo]

5. Why don't you PM Skinner with this. It's a good idea, but he might feel

there are already enough forums, it's just that people won't post in them preferring to fight with each other in the two most popular: GD and 2004.

There really are forums for Activism, Economics and Environment, but folks unwind by yelling at each other in these two. Many of us have tried posting in the other Forums hoping topics would stay up long enough to get thoughtful replies, but the topics usually only get four or five comments, maybe ten if it's somewhat controversial.


There are so many people now that it is hard to find anything. But, I agree it's the duplicate posts which clutter it up. Mods are volunteers and they can't catch everything when there's this much to read, unfortunately. We are a City now, not a little Town.


Good Luck! Maybe some new ideas would work...

[ulTRAX]

11. wrong mix of forums

KoKo01 wrote: there are already enough forums, it's just that people won't post in them preferring to fight with each other in the two most popular: GD and 2004.

Those forums are on overload... which is why they have to be broken up.

KoKo01 "There really are forums for Activism, Economics and Environment, but folks unwind by yelling at each other in these two. Many of us have tried posting in the other Forums hoping topics would stay up long enough to get thoughtful replies, but the topics usually only get four or five comments, maybe ten if it's somewhat controversial.

Another reason to take the energy from the GD and Campaign 2004 forums and disperse it. Maybe some of the inactive forums can be consolidated.

KoKo01 : There are so many people now that it is hard to find anything. But, I agree it's the duplicate posts which clutter it up. Mods are volunteers and they can't catch everything when there's this much to read, unfortunately. We are a City now, not a little Town."

Think of the forums as a library. It the function of a forum is to help patrons efficiently find a book they're looking for... there has to be some logical indexing system. Forums should borrow a concept from UseNet in having a hierarchy of top categories and sub categories.

When the top categories are over used... look at the posts and see what subject is popular enough to deserve a new sub category. If a sub category is underused.... it can be rolled up into the next level up. Such dynamic balancing prevents forum overload... makes it easier for members to find the forum that best interests them... will concentrate more people around an issue so a more productive synergy can develop.... and makes it easier for anyone from, say the Kerry campaign, to do a reality check on whatever ideas they are thinking about for the campaign. Will they ever do so? I don't know... but there's a better chance if the forums were more focused and more minds were working on a similar topic than if we're all scattered. Only in that way will it also make it easier for someone to want to use the DU as a resource.

[KoKo]

22. You really need to talk to Skinner about this. He might give some insight

into what they've tried that's worked and what doesn't. I think your idea of splitting the most popular forums into "subforums" is good. But the Admins of this Site have had many headaches with imposing rules on who posts what where. After three years of this, they may have some interesting arguments for you about whether your suggestions will work or not, or maybe they would try them. :shrug:

[MrPrax]

7. Since DU is going into decline...

I really don't think making it a 'premier' site with Progressive in it's title is a 'good thing'

There are already alternatives and "politically like-minded people" will find them...

Most forums on Du are dead...posts are few and far between, good ideas and links even fewer:

"2004 Campaign forums subdivided"...well same can be said for a chatboard dedicated to democratic thought...subdivided? Bush, Conservatives, and Conservatism? Civil Rights/Equality/Privacy? Environment/Energy/Science? Health/Education/Social Policy ? how much more sub-sub divided can there be? oh I know...Justice/Public Safety


"DU already gets some national attention." because 'democratic' is in it's name and media is lazy...

"20-40 years from now the Progressive movement"...doubt if there will be one

"if it can only be effectively harnessed"

harnessed to do what? Convince Progressives to 'vote' for one Yale grad that killed more commies than another Yale grad?

Sift the entrails of a knockdown debate where Al Franken pummels OReilly (got the plug-in? a MUST-SEE) and flys to Iraq to comfort the troops?

A thoughful discussion on what Chomsky might have pointed out about US policy and a flurry of 'chomsky was wrong about Faurisson, Derschowitz' threads?

etc etc

"a great assemblage of politically like-minded people"???
as debateable as the society we live in...

[ulTRAX]

9. thanks for the encouraging words

MrPrax wrote "Since DU is going into decline... I really don't think making it a 'premier' site with Progressive in it's title is a 'good thing' There are already alternatives and "politically like-minded people" will find them...

Gee... that sounds like a REAL plan. Thanks.

MrPrax: Most forums on DU are dead...posts are few and far between, good ideas and links even fewer:

If some forums are dead and others on overload.... it's up to the powers that be to rethink the DU mission and readjust the forum list as necessary.

MrPrax: "2004 Campaign forums subdivided"...well same can be said for a chatboard dedicated to democratic thought...subdivided? Bush, Conservatives, and Conservatism? Civil Rights/Equality/Privacy? Environment/Energy/Science? Health/Education/Social Policy ? how much more sub-sub divided can there be? oh I know...Justice/Public Safety"

I made a few suggestions. If some other forums are underused... it's best they are consolidated.

ulTRAX: "20-40 years from now the Progressive movement"

MrPrax "...doubt if there will be one"

Especially if anyone listens to your advice. We might as well put a bullet in our collective head now.

ulTRAX: "if it can only be effectively harnessed"

MrPrax: harnessed to do what? Convince Progressives to 'vote' for one Yale grad that killed more commies than another Yale grad?

Hey... I can't remember the last time I voted Democratic... possibly 72 or 76. What I will NOT do this year is vote for Nader. Yes... I will hold my nose and vote to get rid of Bush. I'd hate to see that campaign make gaffs simply because Kerry or his staff didn't have enough good ideas to work with.... or miss a chance to pummel Bush for the same reason. But you would not understand. You've already given up all hope.

[KoKo]

21. ROFL, MrPrax, not at you but at what you feel about this. Much is true,

but much begs you to look further and have some hope. We can only work with what we are given. It's imperfect and always will be.

I think the only thing that keeps some of us going is "how can we make a difference, even though we know we can't turn the ship the way we want it to go, we can sometimes point it in directions which suit us better."

It doesn't last, but this is a time when we need even our most cynical to get on board. Not with Kerry necessarily, but with the "grassroots" who've lain fallow for so long on the Left.

:shrug: what else can we do, except tune it out and watch the cables. That's worse than this, to me, at least. Depends on your capacitiy for "tuneout."

[MrPrax]

25. Oh don't worry...

I won't let the Net confuse my priorities...

This weekend in addition to a March marking the anniversary of the Iraq invasion, the following night will be a community potluck as a follow up to discussion of 'how to make a viable community' and allowing 'our side' to define what WE want and see if there are people who share some of these 'ideas'.

Basically an attempt to make an agenda that competes with the one that is 'fabricated' by politicians and their corporate media...

For instance, I suggest more Progressives start activism outside the 'lazy Net' world.

I have always been involved in 'grassroots' causes, because I believe that you have the right and duty to be active in the political system, 7/24 and not simply whenever the ruling class calls an election...

The better people that contribute to DU in fact do contribute this part of their activities to the discussion--you can tell the difference in the level of committment and the issues they bring forward.

Surprisingly there has been very little in the way of promotion of the various worldwide marches at DU (for example) which to a certain extent makes me cool to any idea of presenting the 'white bread' safe DU as an example of a 'premier Progressive site'--it's not and for many many good reasons and shouldn't be for strategic reasons...

You are right, never give up on community...

[opihimoimoi]

8. Like it, should explore a way to implement with much growth

Come, we make monthly Luaus and we will grow.

[cmd]

10. I see what you are saying

I, too, hate to see good ideas sink off of page one. I think you should contact Skinner.

[ulTRAX]

12. who is skinner? n/m

[JohnLocke]

14. Skinner: the leader, the boss-man, the man upstairs, the big cheese.

Skinner, (real name: David Allen) is the co-founder of Democratic Underground, LLC, based in the nation's capital. Read "about DU".

[info being]

13. Another idea:

Generate an RSS feed for each new thread. Using the infobeing.net technology (news.infobeing.net) on this site (via web services integration), users could create "Alerts" on topics that interest them most and get notified via email when new threads are started on that topic.

The value: you don't have to check the forum constantly and you'll still find out about, and have a chance to respond to, topics that interest you.

In short, it would help us to "scale." We'd reach a wider audience more efficiently. Contact me at [e-mail] to discuss further.

[ulTRAX]

27. news feeds...

I have a couple news feeds.... they are still work to plow though. How would that be easier than having a direct link to a DU forum that was more forcused?

[cybildisobedience]

15. a while back, we discussed a feature called

It could be about any particular subject, but what it could do is serve as a repository for ideas for fighting Repuke messages and attacks.
Very often, people on this site are capable of doing great research and of some very inventive thinking. People close to a campaign simply don't have the distance or objectivity to come up with some incisive commentary, and we could, I think, help them.

Imagine the ideas we could come up with if we posted a thread like "Talking points: Ways to combat Kerry is soft on defense" ?

No one says they have to use it, but we could act as a really focused focus group, if nothing else.
There's a lot of brain power here, even if you have to sift through some stuff to get to it.

[ulTRAX]

19. sifting for gems

cybildisobedience wrote: "Very often, people on this site are capable of doing great research and of some very inventive thinking. People close to a campaign simply don't have the distance or objectivity to come up with some incisive commentary, and we could, I think, help them.
Imagine the ideas we could come up with if we posted a thread like "Talking points: Ways to combat Kerry is soft on defense" ?"

Absolutely. I think some of the advice I've seen here for the Kerry campaign is better than what's he's doing.

"No one says they have to use it, but we could act as a really focused focus group, if nothing else.
There's a lot of brain power here, even if you have to sift through some stuff to get to it."

I think the key to both goals is revamping the forums...

It will end the clutter in the GD and Campaign 2004 forums... and subdivide them into smaller groupings. Not sure what to do with GD... but the Campaign forum could certainly be reformed into various war rooms... each with a separate focus on the campaign. It would make it easier for members and visitors.... hopefully from the Kerry camp... to find those gems.

[nomaco-10]

16. I picked up my weekly neighborhood newspaper ......

The News BEACON today at the grocery store and opened it to the second page to read an article by Michelle Malkin titled "The Land of the Free and Home of the Thankless". It cites DemocraticUnderground specifically and quotes several posts regarding John Ashcroft's bout with pancreatitis. Needless to say the quotes in the article from the thread weren't full of well wishes and get well soon remarks.

DU is much more read than many here think. It's a double edged sword, if we "put our best foot forward" then there are those here who will feel stifled by feeling that voicing their dissent is their 1st amendment right and wishing John Ashcroft would "die on the table" is exercising that right.

As far as the "great assemblage" to be utilized as a "tremendous political resource" here, it WAS "effectively harnessed" at one time, but alas most of the great thinkers and intellectuals of this board left after the acrimony of the primaries and decided being sniped at and ridiculed with snarky three word replies to their posts wasn't worth the effort anymore. I don't know where they went, but I sure wish they'd come back.

[DeepModem Mom]

20. I agree with much of what you say, nomaco-10 --

I agree with this, in particular: "DU is much more read than many here think. It's a double edged sword, if we 'put our best foot forward' then there are those here who will feel stifled by feeling that voicing their dissent is their 1st amendment right and wishing John Ashcroft would 'die on the table' is exercising that right." And ulTRAX is right about DU's potential, which I think would be enhanced if DUers kept their "eyes on the prize" (getting George Bush out of our White House) by using some judgment before they post. I think we owe it to the DUers whose research and writing is making a difference not to undermine the credibility of this site.

I agree also that the primaries changed things here. We lost the mutual support and camaraderie we found through our opposition to a common enemy, George W. Bush and the right-wing extremists who put him in power. We made enemies of fellow Democrats. Now many make an enemy of the man who will be the Democratic nominee, John Kerry -- the only hope we have of defeating George Bush, and coming back full circle to DU's inception, at the time Bush took the oath of his stolen office.

[Nlighten1]

17. DU-PAC?

Never ending fundraising!

[ContinentalOp]

18. Unfortunately...

I think in most sites people gravitate to the 1 or 2 forums at the top and all of the others languish. When there are a lot of categories it becomes difficult for a poster to decide which forum their topic fits in and everything gravitates to a "general" forum by default.

I think your ideas are great though and I don't mean to be discouraging. I just think some of it is the nature of the medium.

[ulTRAX]

28. top forums vs sub topics

One thing we know... people post wherever there are forums. Structure the hierarchy differently... and people posting behavior will change. Right now the GD discussion is so broad... that it's sapping the life out of the other forums. If I want to get a discussion going on the Constitution... the Equality forum is pretty dead... because most gravitate here. So someone learns quickly not to bother posting in the appropriate forum. DU has some thinking to do about how to focus the energies of all who post here. I think it's become too random and unfocused to play much of a role in national politics. I'd suggest setting some mutually–exclusive top hierarchies with some logical sub-topics... and try to kill off the GD forum. The energy that produces 280 threads a day is phenomenal... but it's too unfocused to be really productive.

[mot78]

23. DU has a lot of wasted potential

We post a lot of incriminating stuff and good responses to rw attacks, but unlike FR or Drudge, most of the stuff NEVER makes it to the mainstream media. It's either because we take one glance and ignore the material, or because of the total incompetence within our party in terms of echo chamber.
We should have a sub-forum to post incriminating things about * so they will be more accessible to others.

[opihimoimoi]

24. There should be a panel of Mods who take "winner" posts and threads

to a seperate board where a mechanism is set up for voting by the ones with Stars. The best of the best can be viewed by the Dem Candidates who come here. We can only hope it gives them better odds for victory/impact as a result.

Come, we go Luau, have Fun.

[kodi]

26. poi we used to have several evil duers who did post a "best of' series

on several topics mentioned in the intitial post, but that was back in '01 and '02.

trying to do what has been suggested has been offered to skinner, trumad and elad in several forms. but around here its like trying to herd cats.

much of the problem identified in the original post have been chewed on for years. and actually much of the problem with posting valuable info in GD is that the threads usually sink like rocks because of the "hey, look at xxx's new hairdoo" type threads. but hey that's the freedom of the board.

its why so many early great researcher duers who shared their knowledge flew away, they got tired of seeing their detailed researched threads disappear in an hour's time from the first 5 pages of the forum...it's also why we now have duer essays (we didn't used to have them, btw)

maybe beaking the gd into another 20 semi forums would help, but i doubt it. all one can do is at least try it and find out.

until then, it doesn't take much effort to go thru the threads on a daily basis to find out things of interest. experience shows who are the thread intitiators who draw the best responses. it takes a while, but there is an identifably group who attract the most kknowledgable duers for the best discussions.

eg., wil pitt, salin, indiana green, ustn, hurricane hawker, mschreader, messiah, ulysses, catwoman, voltaire, gacprofessor, and dozens more are those who bring in the bacon with the killer shit and any time they post good folk follow.

[opihimoimoi]

30. I came aboard in 01 Aug and know what you describe

Those were the good days.

Now we got freeperitis and they dilute our boards with shit on purpose for that same effect you mentioned.

Oh well, Come, we plod on.

[tobius]

29. less forums are better. there is a reason the majority congregate

at the 2 biggest forums- there are more people there! ( chicken? egg?)
see this lonely voice echoing in a lost forum tonight-

Fri Mar-19-04 07:18 PM
Original message
"Dammit....does anyone ever post here? This thread is honestly
one of the most important ones here, IMHO. Yet, not only is it low on the list of topics, but most threads go untouched for days. Let's get something going here. These issues are important! Discuss!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=117x2720

[ulTRAX]

31. problem with big forums.......

tobius wrote: "less forums are better. there is a reason the majority congregate at the 2 biggest forums- there are more people there! ( chicken? egg?)see this lonely voice echoing in a lost forum tonight-"

I think you need to think about what role forums play. If it's just a place for people to get together... then big forums are fine.

However if the goal is to get people together around a topic of common interest... then it's best to break down big forums into sub-topics. More focused forums makes finding and discussing relevant threads easier. It reduces duplicate threads which interferes with a synergistic amplification of ideas. And it prevents good threads from being buried, locked and archived in a few days.

Such a move would also allow the DU to become more of a Progressive Think Tank simply because it would reduce the randomness of ideas and permit more members to better focus their energies.