Taiwan president shot on eve of election, referendum on independance

[JohnLocke]

Taiwan President Shot, Later Leaves Hospital
By Jane Macartney -- Reuters
Friday, March 19, 2004

TAIPEI (Reuters) - Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian survived an assassination attempt on Friday while campaigning on the eve of a presidential election, escaping with a bullet wound to the stomach.
Vice President Annette Lu was also wounded in the attack in the southern city of Tainan but was not badly hurt, officials said. The pair were rushed to hospital, but a hospital official said later that they had left to fly back to the capital.
Officials said Saturday's election would go ahead as planned. Opposition presidential candidate Lien Chan paid a brief visit to Chen at his official Taipei residence on Friday evening.
(...)
Chen and Lu had been traveling through Tainan streets in a red open-top jeep, waving to crowds, when unknown assailants shot at them at 1:45 p.m. local time.
(...)
More than six hours after the shooting, China's official Xinhua news agency carried a terse factual report but the Chinese authorities had no official reaction. Beijing regards Taiwan as a renegade province to be recovered, by force if necessary.
(...)
Chen has called a controversial referendum on boosting the island's defenses, setting the vote for Saturday alongside the presidential poll. The step has enraged Beijing, which sees the move as a harbinger of steps toward independence.
Beijing views the referendum as a dry run for a vote on Taiwan independence that it says could lead to war.
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Read the rest of the three-page article here.

[JohnLocke]

1. Kick (nt).

[JohnLocke]

21. Kick (nt).

[JohnLocke]

24. Kick (nt).

[JohnLocke]

25. Kick (nt).

[JohnLocke]

32. Kick (nt).

[bedtimeforbonzo]

2. boo freaking hoo

maybe when he croaks the Chinese can unite once again.

[JohnLocke]

3. What are you implying?

I think the Taiwanese have the right to rule themselves, rather than being oppressed and threated by a tyrannical, one-party government hundreds of miles away, thank you very much.

[Padraig18]

5. I agree with you wholeheartedly, JohnLocke.

That someone could in ANY way support a communist dictatorship over a democratically-elected government just boggles my mind...

[JohnLocke]

6. I guess he advocates a tyranny aiming hundreds of missiles at a democracy.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Because it is communist

Some here lose all perspective when they see red.

[MAlibdem]

13. china isn't communist

it's communist in name only, it's more fascist now

it is a corporate-authoritarian state, making it FASCIST. The only ideologically pure area left of Maoism is fierce, militant nationalism.

[JohnLocke]

14. Communism is impossible to maintain.

All "communist" nations wind up being overthrown or become repressive totalitarian states.

[Darranar]

17. Communism has never been tried on a national level...

so how do you know whether it is impossible to maintain or not?

"Repressive totalitarian states" are inherently not communist; communism proposes the ownership of everything by the workers, while totalitarian states lacking a free market have industries owned purely by the ruling class.

[JohnLocke]

20. Exactly.

"Repressive totalitarian states" are inherently not communist."
Exactly. When a government is formed to actually implement communist ideas, the leaders seem to forget about the idea of Communism being a dictatorship of the proletariat-- choosing the "dictatorship" part over the "proletariat" party. Since the leaders of the Communist forces generally become the elite, over a period of time they wind up controlling industry (as well as all other facets of life) -- turning a Marxist/Communist state into a corporate/totalitarian one.

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. China certainly thinks it is

That's why they call themselves Communist China or Red China.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. But even back in 1990, when I spent 5 weeks there visiting colleges

neither the students nor the professors thought China was still Communist. They grumbled about having to take and teach required courses in Marxist theory when they could see with their own eyes that even the government didn't believe in it anymore.

The current Chinese government allows entrepreneurship, has dismantled most of its social safety net and state enterprises, encourages foreign investment (including from Taiwan), is infested with officials who openly beg for bribes, and has a monumental and ever-widening gap between rich and poor. Doesn't sound too Communist to me, no matter what they call themselves.

They're still repressive, but now you don't get repressed for having "the wrong class background" or listening to Western music. You get repressed for protesting official corruption or poor working conditions.

I'd say they've gone straight from Communist to fascist without stopping in the middle.

Taiwan, on the other hand, has actually turned into a multi-party democracy and has either the second or third highest living standard in Asia. (It keeps vying for second place with Singapore.)

[joeyb]

28. I dont think you know what fascist means

to throw terms like this out there is pretty dangerous. Fascism is a form of socialism

[JohnLocke]

29. Fascism is NOT a form of socialism.

[Darranar]

8. For once, we agree. n/t

[JohnLocke]

9. I'm reminded of an old quote...

"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder.

What unites us is far greater than what divides us. The issues and irritants that inevitably affect all neighbors are small indeed in comparison with the issues that we face together - above all the somber threat now posed to the whole neighborhood of this continent."

-- John Fitzgerald Kennedy, May 17, 1961
Address Before the Canadian Parliament in Ottawa

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Huh? Taiwan is a free and independent nation

It's about time the world acknowledged that fact.

[recidivist]

10. But, but, but .... Taiwan threatens China!!!!

You see, if the word gets out that people of the Chinese persuasion are capable of sustaining a democracy, what rationale remains for the mainland junta?

[JohnLocke]

11. They're afraid of democracy and capitalism.

They'd much rather oppress all political opposition.

[recidivist]

12. Agreed.

It's taking the Stalinists a bit longer than usual to find this thread, don't ya think:)

[JohnLocke]

15. They'll be here...

[Darranar]

16. I don't see them as afraid of capitalism...

they aren't ideological communists, simply political opportunists who took up the cause of "communism" in order to gain power. They also have been engaging in a number of "reforms" to allow more US corporations to exploit the slavery there.

You're totally right that they're afraid of democracy, though.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. For once in my life I agree with you

Taiwan has not been under mainland Chinese control since 1895 except for the four years of 1945-1949. (It was a Japanese colony from 1895-1945). Even before 1895, Taiwan was a remote province, inhabited partly by non-Chinese tribes of Malayo-Polynesian origin, and the mainland had little control over it.

Unfortunately, the Chinese have a tendency to think, "Once Chinese territory, always Chinese territory." I was surprised to find that even emigres from the mainland who are otherwise very anti-government believe that Taiwan is a renegade province of China and that Tibet has no right to independence.

[JohnLocke]

30. Heh.

Muddle sometimes takes unpopular positions here. He's a great guy.

[DjTj]

33. Things are of course more complicated than that...

...The first large influx of Chinese to the island of Taiwan came at the end of the Ming Dynasty, holding out as resistant against the Qing until 1683, almost 40 years after the Manchurians had first taken over Beijing.

Even then, the Qing had a hard time controlling Taiwan, and simple geography has allowed the Taiwanese to stay relatively independent of political wrangling in Beijing. Becoming a Japanese colony was a big shift though, and contributed greatly to creating a culture in Taiwan distinct from that on the mainland.

When Chiang Kai-Shek and the Nationalist Chinese government arrived in Taiwan in 1949, most of the Chinese that had been on the island for 300 years saw the Kuomingtang as occupiers much like the Japanese.

With the gradual easing of martial law and the changeover to free elections, the "Taiwanese" (who are now a mix of the Ming Chinese and the native Polynesian tribes) have finally achieved the kind of self-government they really never had.

Chen's reelection and growing strength of the DPP (and weakening KMT) is definitely a watershed moment in Taiwanese history - A Taiwanese leader for Taiwan will lead to growing power in the legislature and perhaps an inevitable path towards complete independence.

[JohnLocke]

18. Kick (nt).

[struggle4progress]

26. NPR coverage quoted ...

Taiwanese who said they thought the "assassination attempt" was a clumsy fake.

[JohnLocke]

27. Do you have a link? I'd like to hear/see it (nt).

[struggle4progress]

31. Apologies ...

can't find link that contains any such quotes.

It was supposedly discussions with Taiwanese after bombing. Could have been translations, too.

[w4rma]

34. There are freeper-types in Taiwan, too. (n/t)