Closeted gay black men spreading AIDS

[neebob]

So I'm listening to CNN, and they're doing a story about men who consider themselves heterosexual and live with women having anonymous, unprotected sex with other men on the side. "The down low," they call it. This is the second time I've heard this story about this "new phenomenon" - not necessarily on CNN, but both times the story was about black men - as if they're the only ones doing this. I've known about it for years, and it's not just black men. White men do it, too, more than anyone thinks. Go to cruisingforsex.com, look up your local "cruisy park," and go sit there for an hour. What ARE all those men doing alone at the park - having lunch? No. Stopping to unwind on their way home from work? Well, yeah.

It irritates me that the news makes out like it's a black thing. It's not even news, much less a black thing.

[Syrinx]

1. I've read articles about this too

Quite awhile ago. I think one was in Rolling Stone. Seems like the article said it was because the anti-gay bias is even stronger in the black "community" than in the white "community." I have no idea if that's true.

As a straight white guy, I can remember being "hit on" by other guys exactly three times. Two were white, one was black. I still haven't heard from the Asian community. :)

[Dookus]

2. I agree

somewhat. Yes, people would be shocked to know how much homosexual activity is occurring among the "straight" people in their neighborhoods. It is MUCH more widespread than people will or want to acknowledge.

However... there *IS* a real stigma in the African-American community (and to a lesser degree the Latino community) attached to homosexuality, and there are fewer black or latino men who are willing to self-identify as homosexual. Hence, many of them ARE in relationships with women and getting all their fun on the side. And yes, I'm well aware of the "down low" phenomenon, and it IS real. It also occurs with white men, but I think it really is to a lesser degree.

The real answer for now is teaching ALL sexually active people - gay, straight or bisexual - to use protection and have responsible sex. The long-term answer is changing the attitudes in the black and hispanic communities so that gay men are allowed to live their lives as they see fit.

[neebob]

3. I wouldn't argue about the stigma being bigger

in the black community, but I wouldn't bet money that there are fewer white men doing the down-low or whatever the phrase is. :-)

[Dookus]

4. I agree...

there definitely aren't fewer white men - I think we both have personal knowledge of that.

But as a cultural phenomenon, it seems black (and latino) men are more pressured to pretend to be heterosexual.

[neebob]

5. I don't doubt that

The thing that irritates me is the story didn't mention that white or Latino or Asian men do it, too, and all the ignoramuses watching will go, "Oh, those nasty black men!"

[Dookus]

6. ah...

ok, I see your point. Sorry, I skipped over it earlier.

You are right.... the phenomenon is in no way confined to black men, but now that there's a name for it, it becomes a cultural news item.

I agree that a similar story of such behavior of white men would be equally shocking, and is not done. I really believe if people had ANY idea how many "straight" men have sex with other men, they'd be truly shocked.

[neebob]

9. That's a point, too

As much trouble as I have respecting the behavior, as much as I want to laugh at men - or maybe just the one I knew - who secretly screw other men and insist they're not gay, I understand why they do it. If someone hadn't written, for whatever reason, way back before anyone can remember and against all evidence to the contrary, that men are supposed to like women and vice versa - and if others hadn't believed it - it wouldn't be a problem.

[Sandpiper]

10. It rather reminds me of that 1914 headline

from the New York Times:

"Negro Cocaine Fiends, The New Southern Menace"

[Alenne]

7. I think black gay and bi men have put that pressure on themselves.

White gay men have not always been accepted. After more of them started coming out more people started to accept them. It took some time. I don't think most black gay and bi men are ready to start that struggle. I read an article where one of the men said he is afraid to come out because if he isn't accepted by blacks then he has no where to go. So he isn't going to take the chance and be rejected by his community. More need to start coming out and eventually most people will accept it.

[Dookus]

8. of course such men

need to come out and learn to accept themselves. But I *AM* sympathetic to the idea that people who are ALREADY marginalized by society would be reluctant to marginalize themselves even further.

[Alenne]

11. I am sympathetic also

but it is time for black gay men to stop acting like this is something to be hidden away. If I ever have a son and he is gay I want being gay to be the last thing he has to think about. I want being gay to be something that just is for him. That won't happen if most gay black men are still hiding like something is wrong.

White gay men are not as marginalized as they used to be. That is what I want for black gay men. If something doesn't start to happen being gay will be accepted by a huge majority of white people and most of the black community will still be pretending that gay black men don't exist.

[Dookus]

12. I couldn't agree more that that must happen....

I just worry about how to make it happen. It seems somewhat insurmountable. The cultural problem, as I see it, is one of the influence of the church on African-American communities. I will stipulate that it is largely a positive influence, and is rightfully valued by African-Americans. Unfortunately, it is that same institution that is the prime cause of a lot of anti-gay sentiment among its members.

I'm not sure what can be done to hasten the change, other than have people become familiar with gays. When I was young, a divorced person was slightly titillating, and in my parents generation, it was downright scandalous. Same for gays: fraternizing with a gay person in the '40's would've been scandalous... in the 70's or 80's, titillating. Today it's trendy. Once we hit the threshold of downright boring, the church will follow, just as it did with divorced people. I think the only thing that brought about such acceptance for divorced people was their sheer numbers. The same is true of black men.

So.... to summarize... I have no real point. Only that you are right that black men need to start coming out in greater numbers (but I will argue that coming out is the LAST step in a process that begins with self-realization - and many men are not even close to THAT step yet). I don't know how much can be done to further that goal, though, and I'm somewhat pessimistic about it. I think it will happen very very slowly. It will definitely happen, but not anytime soon.

[Alenne]

13. It starts with black people like me.

Whenever I can I let my daughters know that there is nothing wrong with being gay. The more blacks that are accepting of gays the more comfortable people will be to come out.

[Dookus]

14. You're absolutely right

and more power to you. You're doing exactly the right thing.

[Karenina]

18. GLBT people

are our sisters, brothers, cousins and our AUUUUUUUUNNNTS! (who maybe used to be uncles... ;-) ) Since being EDUCATED about it by my peers at conservatory back in the day my question has been, WHAT IS WRONG WITH "YOU PEOPLE?" Yeah YOU who got a "problem" with someone else's sexuality- WHAT IS UP WITH THAT? Keep your PROBLEM to yourself and keep your hands off people I LOVE.

[REP]

15. Interesting Piece on this in Supplement to This Month's CJR

When I heard this story reported on the radio, the slant was that this may explain why young black women are becoming infected at higher rates. From this angle, the focus on race makes a little more sense.

The supplement in this month's CJR notes that in the years 1981 through 2002, only 2% of news articles about HIV/AIDS focused on blacks, even though it is the leading cause of death of American blacks aged 25 to 44.

While the objection to the implication that black men are the only segment of closeted men is vaild, there is some good in that these stories are now paying some attention to a population that is being hit very hard by this disease.

The supplement can be found at kff.org (pub #7023).

[Skidmore]

16. In Tavis Smiley's forum on the state of the

black family broadcast a few weeks ago, this was discussed at length. The high incidence of AIDS among black men has been linked to the high rates of incarceration for black men. You should go back and view that forum. I can't recall whether that particular discussion took place in morning or afternoon session but C-SPAN has both sessions in their video library.

Your point is well taken that white men do this too, however, there is a concern in the black community over the high incidence of black women who are becoming infected with AIDS. It is a significant problem.

[Toot]

17. I read an article in 'Essence' on this subject a couple of years ago....

and their reasoning for the article, I think, was because black women are getting AIDS at a higher rate than any other group of women. All I can hope for, as a black woman, is that other black women wise up and have their partners wear protection and if that partner doesn't want to, then don't do the deed.

[thom1102]

19. I have seen more White men at these places than I have

african american men.

[shanti]

20. gotta keep those white women away

from black men, now don't they? the problem is that this affects black women at a much higher percentage than any other. if anyone should be worried about this, it should be black women.