We need a third major party in the United States

[ProudToBeLiberal]

The Republicans can be the right. The Democrats can be the moderate/centrist. And some group like the Greens can be the left. So I think it's important that The Greens reach the 5 percent threshhold in the presidential election. We need to have MAJOR political parties represent all ideas across the political spectrum. And don't give me that crap that this will weaken the democratic party. As the Democrats in the center they'll grab votes from Republicans and Greens.

[fearnobush]

1. 5% = 4 more years of death and Bush destruction.

Not in this cycle please. It's to dangerous. Your view is quite valid though.

[Dookus]

2. except it ignores the reality

of our electoral system, which is winner-take-all. The Greens would be able to garner as much as 49% of the popular vote, and still every elected seat in the country would be Republican.

Personally, I don't WANT a purely centrist Democratic party. I want it to represent the left, because many of the basic tenets of the Democratic party today were originally "left" ideas. Also, the Democratic party is, literally, the "party of the people". The party of the people shouldn't have major idealogical differences with the Greens.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

3. The Democratic Party WAS the party of the people

I mean I think it can be agreed that the democratic party has moved to the center. In my opinion anyway. If the democrats can become the party of the people once again then we probably don't need a third major political party. We are infestered with people who are drawing the party away from the left. Like Al From and Reed of the DLC.

[Wonk]

4. Not when Dems and Pugs agree on ~80% of issues

If the Democratic party really wants the Greens votes then they should integrate some of their issues into the party platform, not simply bash them.

If the Dems were solidly left of center there would be no raison d'etre for the Greens.

[Dookus]

13. but I would argue

that the Democrats DO integrate a lot of Green issues into their agenda. The Green Party, like any other party, must define itself in opposition to the parties it competes with. Therefore, the Greens run on an agenda based on what the two parties DON'T do.

However, if we were to imagine a country in which there was only a Republican Party and a Green Party, the Green Party would adopt the vast majority of the Democratic agenda. It would do so because its only opposition would be the Republican Party. It would have to play both the middle and the left - just like the Democratic Party must do.

[Sandpiper]

8. You're exactly right

Regarding the reality of our electoral system.

Unless we shifted to a parliamentary system, or replaced our system of single member congressional districts with proportional representation, it will be impossible for third parties to gain any sort of electoral foothold.

[Q]

12. Actually...

...our system isn't really 'winner take all' in a practical sense. We have coequal branches of government that SHARE power.

- The problem is that the two major parties have become one...sharing power among themselves instead of the other branches of government. They have in fact brought us the one-party state with a 'ruler' instead of a president.

- Voting third party may be the only choice in the future if the Democratic party continues its shift to the right.

[Dookus]

14. I'll address each of your points:

1: our ELECTORAL system is winner-take-all. I wasn't referring the separation of powers.

2: The two parties have NOT become one, despite what Ralph Nader may tell you. There are clear, decisive and demonstrable differences between the parties. People who deny that only do so in a fit of pique because their pet issues aren't being addressed to their satisfaction by the Dems. But I'd be hard-pressed to think of ANY issue on which the Republican Party is better. If you are a leftist of ANY kind, the Democratic Party is better on your issue than the Republican Party.

3: Voting third-party leftist will only work to ensure the election of Republicans. That is not even arguable. If you believe the idea that only when the Right has fucked things up enough will the average American wake up and start voting Leftist, then more power to you. I've lived through 6 years of Nixon, 8 years of Reagan, and 3 years of Bush Jr. That doesn't happen. It's a nice fairy-tale, but it's not based in any way on reality.

[NEOBuckeye]

5. Not Now. Not Yet.

You will find few people who advocate the demolition of the two party system more than me. That said, now is not the time for it. Not when so much is at stake.

We simply cannot afford another four years of Bush. Not at the level of damage this inept man and his corrupt cronies have wrought upon the lives of the innocent, our environment, our democracy and our world. A strong Green Party now would split the Democrats and surely give Bush another four years, and the likes of that GOP bastard Tom DeLay, an even greater majority in Congress.

Until the Classic Conservatives can launch their own movement to retake the Republican Party back from the Reactionary Christian Right, we need to keep the Center-Left and Left together within the Democratic Party.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

7. When do we start?

We have to start sometimes. Why not take a STAND NOW. Instead of always putting it to the side. We can't hold back change forever. I understand, I don't want bush for 4 years. But When we kick him out of office, there will be a new reason of why we can't have a strong Green Party. Sometimes always pops up.

[NEOBuckeye]

10. Delete

Double post. sorry.

[NEOBuckeye]

11. Moderate Republicans

Though I can't forsee it happening in the immediate future, if the Republicans successfully ran a more moderate, "non-Bush" Presidential candidate, such as John McCain, I would say go for it. Under a Moderate-Right administration, we'd have a little more "breathing room" for party-splitting on the Left. Of course, if the GOP were to ever move back to the Center, the Democrats might respond by moving further to the Left, thereby eliminating the need for a third party.

IF you REALLY want to establish a strong third party, though, you are going to have to start at THE GRASSROOTS. Forget all this crap about taking the Presidency. If Ralph Nader really wanted to give the Greens a boost, he'd run for a HOUSE or a SENATE seat. Members of the Green Party serious about making themselves a real political force to be reckoned with need to start LOCAL. Organize a movement to have people run for City Council and School Board seats all across the country. Garrison a presence on the city level, and then move up to county, and then state. Get party representatives into state government house and senate seats, and, after building a name for yourselves, THEN point them towards Congress in D.C. Establish a presence in both houses of Congress. Then, you can go for the Presidency.

That's the way to do it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. We need at least two more parties

One for centrist dems and one for centrist pubs. A few more wouldn't hurt either. If there were only one, it would dilute the other parties, mostly on one side more than the other, and it could be the Democratic party that gets hit. That would be worse for the country than the current fucked up system.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[TexasProgresive]

23. Parliament style

If we amended the constitution to allow for a more parliamentary style government that would give many who have no voice a real voice. Likely there would be 2 major parties but they would have to align themselves with one or more lessor parties to form a government. Another plus is that cabinet level posts could be drawn from members of the legislature without them having to resign. This tends to weaken the party that has won the executive.

This is just pipe dreaming. We have 2 parties and while they are overly similar for my taste I chose Burger King over McDonald's

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. We need it right now like we need hemmorhoids

I am not interested in further dividing the left during this critical election. I also think people need to give the programs Kucinich and Dean are pursuing a chance to work.

If the far left is truly concerned about poverty, living wages, clean air, clean water and healthcare, then please...don't do anything to enable 4 more years of Bush.

[mouse7]

15. Far easier to move the Democratic Party to the left

If the people in the Green Party had invested the same level of energy they have invested into the Green Party into moving the Democratic Party left, the job probably would have been mostly accomplished by now.

The realities of the situation are that most of the people involved in the Green Party are people who would rather be completely marginalized "chiefs" rather than successfully winning fights on many issues as "indians."

[w4rma]

16. Not unless it is a more extreme right-wing party (nt)

[Gore1FL]

17. As soon as the consittution is changed

to mathamatically support a 3rd party, I'll agree.

Until that tim,e, 3rd parties merely put assholes like Bush in power.

Are the greens running anyone? They told Nader to bug off.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

18. how about instant voting?

[Gore1FL]

19. regardless of the method

there cannot be a necessary majority, but rahter a plurality for this to work.

Frankly, i like building the coalitions before the elections rather than afterward, so given the choice, I'd rather it just stay 2 party.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Not me, give me a coalition in the House

I'd love to see us switch to clean campaigns, ranked voting, and proportional representation in the House.

[Zynx]

20. That would severely weaken the Democrats' position.

It would force them into an ungodly balancing act.

[Beam Me Up]

22. No, what we need is a REAL DEMOCRACY

instead of the oligarchy we now have.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. Break up the Republicans instead

Into honest conservatives/libertarians at one side and right-wing freaks /PNACers at another (the two don't seem to be getting along so well nowadays anyway)

[NewJeffCT]

25. Work from within

I've been harping on this for months. The Greens, Ralph Nader, Howard Dean supporters, etc. need to take a page out of the book of the Religious Reich and work from within the Democratic party.

While we may despise the tactics of the Reich, they have been shockingly effective at taking over the RepubliCON party. They started small 25 years ago or so and elected people to local town councils & school boards and then worked up to state legislatures and now they have guys like Santorum & Brownback in the Senate and * in the White House.

The Republicans used to have moderate to liberal "Rockefeller Republicans" in the party - heck, Barry Goldwater was seen as an arch-conservative/out of the mainstream type in 1964. Now, he'd be a moderate Republican with his pro-environment & pro-choice stances. When Joe Lieberman ran for Senate, he was running to the right of liberal Republican Lowell Weicker.

[Monte Carlo]

26. The dynamics right now just won't support it.

There are forces at work that tend to keep things the way they are, and I don't see how it'll change unless the forces change first, regardless of any issues.

[Solidarity]

27. We Need More Than One Political Party

Some Green Party and/or Nader supporters have presented a good case in favor of having a true two-party system.

They have not argued that the Democratic and Republican parties are identical. That has been the standard misrepresentation of what real two-party advocates say.

The position of most Green Party members has been that the Democratic and Republican parties are fundamentally controlled and funded by big corporate interests. It's pretty hard to dispute that. So Green party and Labor Party advocates have suggested that in addition to having two major parties controlled by business interests we ought to have a real second political party that represents ordinary working people, that's most of us.

What's wrong with that idea? Especially if your convinced that working people and our organizations cannot somehow "capture" control of the Democratic or Republican parties?