What possible benefit comes out of assasinating a "terrorist" leader?

[Solomon]

Are they trying to escalate the war there? Are they recruiting for Hamas? Do they assume there will be no one to take the dead man's place? I don't get it.

[DarkPhenyx]

1. It helps you forget you have a small penis...

...and that you are a complete failure as a world leader. Other than that not much.

[mulethree]

38. and need to take a pill to make it work anymore

[ewagner]

2. Remember the legacy of Lawrence of Arabia

apparently true is the story of how the member of one tribe killed the member of another tribe. Warfare between the two sides was imminent and would break up Lawrence's coalition. Lawrence convinced the tribes that if he, and not the other tribe executed the man who did the killing then it would be justice and not revenge. Lawrence did execute the man himself.

The moral of the story is that as long as one side, either Palestinian or Israeli, take justice into their own hands, there will never be peace. Justice was certainly deserved if the man was responsible for so many killings, but it should have been meted out by an impartial third party. Someday people will understand the difference between revenge and justice......someday......

[leyton]

5. Well said!

I don't know if you can call the U.S. impartial, but I think that we're probably more impartial than any Islamic nation, particularly the more fundamentalist ones.

I do think assassinating a terrorist leader is okay. Although I would prefer the likes of Osama bin Laden or any member of a terrorist organization to be put into custody and charged with war crimes in a military court (with due defense and attorney-client privelege, etc.), I think that that is not always feasible. Some terrorists simply will not allow themselves to be captured, but they cannot be allowed to roam free, particularly if they're still a threat.

[forgethell]

13. OK, the UN seems to be out

as an impartial third party. Who do we have left?

[ewagner]

25. Good question

The Hague comes to mind but that's part of the UN structure isn't it?

[forgethell]

54. Yes, and

we can't really say that it is impartial, either.

[Exultant Democracy]

3. I was appalled last night when I saw the rejoicing here.

A person can be defeated, but a martyr is invincible.

[stopthegop]

4. call it a hunch...a wild guess..

but maybe this action, coupled with others, will mean less Israeli school kids get blown up by suicide bombers? maybe? hard to predict

[shadu]

7. I predict the numbers go up

time will tell

15. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

-- Gandhi

[stopthegop]

17. oh...you're right...

leave him alone so he can plot to kill more children...
you might wanna rethink your cliches...

20. that's not what I said

I don't see much point in engaging with you,
Don't know why I bothered.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Yassin was already blind, but that didn't stop him

The IDF attack did.

21. he was blind

he caused others to kill people
he got killed
now more people will get killed

Why is it that it is necessary to explain that I'm not defending him?
I'm quoting Gandhi who would not have defended him or this ever escalating cycle of violence.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. Why is it only escalation when Israel takes action

What were they supposed to do, continue to let this murdering bastard operate with impunity?

29. I didn't say it was escalation only when Israel takes action

anywhere in anything I've posted.
Ask someone who has, don't ask me.
Cycle of violence means both sides have responsibility.

[LeahMira]

36. Some are more responsible than others.

Cycle of violence means both sides have responsibility.

If the Israelis really wanted to end the Palestinian threat to themselves, they could do that with short effort. Recall, please, that they have lived with terrorism for years, and they are certainly more powerful militarily than the Palestinians.

If the U.S. could take out bin Laden, it would happen in a heartbeat. That wouldn't mean that there wouldn't be someone to step into his shoes, but it would deal a psychological blow to Al Qaeda and it would send a strong message to anyone interested in filling his shoes. Simple message: keep on knocking off our citizens and we're gonna find your person.

The fact is that the Palestinians and Israelis have been this close to a peace agreement, but there are elements in the area who do not want any peace agreement to happen. Hamas and Hizbollah are two of those elements. It seems like every time peace is on the horizon one of these groups sponsors some terrorist attack on Israel and wrecks the process.

The average Israeli is sick of settlements and walls and occupation. Most want to just give over the West Bank and Gaza and be done with it. Jerusalem is touchy, but I think most Israelis are willing to give control of East Jerusalem to the Palestinians.

The Sharon government is a mess, but in this particular case maybe there weren't many other choices. If there is to be any peace, Hamas and Hizbollah have to be cut down and a responsible Palestinian government has to be recognized... one that wants the Palestinian people to live for Palestine and not die for it.

[Djinn]

44. it isn't

when the members and supporters of Hamas now ramp up THEIR activities it too will be escalation and people will die and then the IDF will escalate and they will and then the IDF will....does anyone want to stop this ride and get off?????

[Stargleamer]

37. call this a hunch, a wild guess

but maybe, this action, along with other similar ones, will mean MORE Israeli school kids getting blown up by suicide bombers in retaliation? Hamas said it will retaliate--one knows what that will mean. No maybes and quite easy to predict.

[Djinn]

40. I GUARANTEE

there will be more Israeli kids (an adults I'm sure they don't want to die either) in danger of becoming victims of bombings now.

Every time this tit for tat shit escalates the situation - if it escalates when a Hamas foot soldier is assasinated what on earth would make you think the assasination of their founder would make all the bombers give up???

[Muddleoftheroad]

53. That is impossible

You can't have more than 100% in danger and that is how many Israelis were already in danger.

Israelis live in danger every day of their lives because their enemies swear to their complete destruction. Thankfully, one such prominent enemy is no more.

[Webster Green]

6. They want more terrorism......

Like the chimp, Sharon draws his power from terrorism, and the threat of it.

Despicable!

[MadProphetMargin]

8. Revenge. Seems to be about it. Can't say I blame them.

But what do I know?

[tobius]

9. Don't attack them it only gets them angry.

Don't go after them it only serves as a recruitment tool. Why are they so mad at us?, let's listen closely and change our ways, it will make them happy and then they won't bother us anymore.


</sarcasm>

nice touch, the little quotation marks around the word terrorist. how very non-judgemental of you.

[MadProphetMargin]

10. Have to agree with you on this one. But the fact is, we need to do both.

Change our ways, AND hunt these vicious bastards down.

[Solomon]

30. You are absolutely right. I am non-judgmental about it. I don't know,

so I have to put quotation marks around the word "terrorist". I just can't take your word for it, I haven't paid any attention to the guy.
It's no use your telling me what he did, unless you are willing to expand your definition of "terrorism" to include people you no doubt think are heroes.

"History" has not yet been written about this. We don't know who's gonna win. So that's why I put the quotation marks. Whoever wins writes the history. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

I'm not defending the guy, and I'm not condemning the guy. My only point is, it seems that killing off the soldiers is a much better way of fighting, than assasinating leaders of religious "terrorist groups". Seems that only deepens the problem. Creates more enemies.

[ohiosmith]

11. One less shit bag in the world.

[Baclava]

23. I also can't say I blame them.

What was it that Jack Nicholson said as the Joker?
"...You're a heartless bastard, and I'm glad you're dead!"

[Djinn]

41. many people would say the same thing

about Sharon were he to be assasinated - remebering that the Israeli government ruled that he was unfit for public office after his role in the slaughter at Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps.

many would say given the amount of people shrubby has had put to death that there would also be "one less shit in the bag" if HE were assasinated.

IT'S NOT THE POINT and the fact that extra-judicial executions are a bad idea has to be constantly reiterated on a progressive board is really really depressing, how many people here cheering are also against the death penalty being applied in the US after the accused has had the benefit of a trial.

And before anyone statrs I know fine well Yassin advocated and supported suicide bombings (doesn't take a Sherlock he spoke about it himself) but the defence of the rule of law is the same as the defence of freedom of speech - you have to also defend the people you DONT like/approve of otherwise it's only the rule of law for certain people and freedom of speech for certain speech

[forgethell]

12. The quotes around 'terrorist' tell

where you are coming from. The good that comes is that this person will no longer be plotting the deaths of innocent women and children. Will someone take his place? Probably.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. They are definitely trying to escalate the "war" there

Helps Bush, helps Sharon, allows them to use greater firepower with more impunity.... just look at who benefits from it and you know what the purpose of it was.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Heyo]

16. I'm sorry....

I don't like the cycle of violence any more than the next guy....

But this guy got what he had coming....

Despite not being invloved in direct planning, he idealogically supported and glorified the slaughter of innocent women and children...

Hamas wants to destroy Israel and kill the Jews, that is their main goal. Their goal is not for Isreal to stop their incursions, their goal is to "drive the Jews into the sea." They are going to retaliate with bombings, but they would have commited more bombings anyway...

Bravo, Isreal, for speaking to Hamas in the only language that they understand...

This man was a murderer and a criminal against humanity.

Wheelchair, shmeelchair.. ever hear of Leon Klinghoffer?

Heyo

[Bridget Burke]

19. I thought he was directly involved?

If not, what, exactly, did he do? Why couldn't he be brought to trial for his heinous deeds? Too hard to catch an old guy in a wheelchair?

And what did he, personally, do to Klinghoffer?

More bombs will go off because of this.

[Heyo]

22. He was the founder and the leader...as far as his onvlovement.

He was the one who said "Go kill Israelis in the name of Allah"...

... then other people said okay, "You, here's the bomb, go to this location and set it off."

Put him on trial? You mean like all of those people on the busses and in the cafes got a fair trial?

To give him a trial legitimizes him, as well as give him a pulpit to spout his vile, irrational hatred..

I say fire the rockets at the car and be done with it.

Like I said.... albeit unfortunate, it was necessary to speak to them in the only language they seem to understand...

This guy opposed every single peace negotiation that has ever been tabled, threatening to kill everyone who supported it... he didn't want peace?..... well you can see what he got.

What did he personally do to Klinghoffer? He idealogically supported what they did to him, which to me is enough.

I hate to sound like I am glorifying killing but there's only so many suicide bomgings people can stand.

Heyo

[Bridget Burke]

27. So, this is the end to suicide bombings?

There won't be any more now. None.

You promise?

[Heyo]

28. Of course not....

But there would have been anyway.

They are determined to kill all of the Jews.

You think they are gonna STOP just because their leader is killed?!

Heyo

[Djinn]

47. so you advocate

the extra-judical death sentence for ALL murderers in the USA because after all their victims didn't get a trial either??

this thread just keeps on getting weirder and weirder

"Put him on trial? You mean like all of those people on the busses and in the cafes got a fair trial?"

[Heyo]

50. Of course not...

I'm just advocating it for this guy...

It's something called a "judgement call"... a concept that, for some reason, is getting more and more foreign to people...

Heyo

[Djinn]

46. do you feel the same way about Sharon

or the members of the Knesset that opnely call for ethnic cleansing??

I would say "ever heard of..." but most Palestinian victims are nameless in the west. How on EARTH does this action prevent what happened to Klinghoffer happening to yet another Israeli citizen?

[FlaGranny]

52. You are absolutely right that he got what was coming,

but sometimes the greater good should come first. Expect lots of retaliation, lots of dead Israelis over this. Then more retaliation and lots of dead Palestinians. Do we really need to be told the story? I thought everyone knew the plot. What the Israelis and Palestinians BOTH need is a BIG and fair-minded person, with no thought for his or her own personal benefit, to stand up and work out a solution. What we have is little men with lots of personal ambition and no regard for human life on EITHER side, making "strikes" against one another. Somewhere, someone has to say enough, or it will go on forever. I wonder if they can reproduce as fast as they can kill each other. Perhaps they'll solve their problems that way.

[burythehatchet]

24. Let's seeeee....

What page is the Sharon corruption scandal investigation on today?

Isn't there some story about Dick Clark or something?

Pull my finger

[barbaraann]

31. Well, this guy thinks it's great...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040322/481/jrl11603221553&e=1

[Malva Zebrina]

32. No benefit whatsoever comes from it

it only satisfies the blood lust of people who enjoy killing and seems to make others think they are establishing a safe state, even though it is behind a wall or a fence, that can never be dissolved and will be firmly established and safe if they kill off, in an ironic ethnic purging, the Palestinians.

It makes a statement that one country with superior weapons and military can fly a helicopter , hover over a mosque, wait until a quadraplegic comes out in a wheelchair and aim the guns at him and kill him' Wow--now that is some doin eh? For certain, guess they showed those Palestinians eh?

Of course, it was all to defend themselves--like this quadraplegic had a shoulder held rocket launcher aimed at the fence, and was about to fire it with his teeth. I am not impressed with this Israeli assassination . There is little wisdom behind it. It is a barbaric response for the sheer purpose of display and revenge. It will accomplish nothing except to keep up the deaths.

[Heyo]

33. What do you suggest they do then?

.... about a person like that?

Maybe if you were laying in the hospital without arms you'd change your mind.

You're placing the "bloodlust" in the wrong place, my dear friend...

best regards,

-Heyo

[Malva Zebrina]

35. my friend , the bloodlust lies with the persons who flew a helicopter

over a mosque and used hi tech assault weapons to assassinate a quadraplegic in a wheelchair. They, by some crazy logic , think this is "defending" Israel.

Well, my friend -- It is not. It is outright, animalistic barbarism.

.

And the assassination of this quadraplegic is justified and will stop all further attacks on Israel?

Yup You bet. This quadraplegic will never ever be around to order another attack on Israeli schoolchildren again. Really? Oh come on, you can't be serious.

Anything done in retaliation will be blood on Sharon's hands. If twenty, or thirty or forty of his citizens get bombed and killed , it is because of this barbaric, primitive response of an assassination from a people who consider themselves at war and from a people definately at a disadvantage.

And no one can see the absolute futility behind all of that? You really think, my friend, that this is the route Israel should go--the blood red road of assassinations, barbarism and disgusting politices toward the Palesitinian people, because it must "defend itself"?


Ever wonder why no one can see the futility behind an assassination such as this?


bloodlust has a way of obscuring any sense of human decency. It will, believe me and mark my words, my friend, go on and on and on and no one will be the winner.

No one.

[Manwithchildeyes]

45. yassin was still the leader of barbaric murderers

He was a valid target. No tears will be shed for his reign of terror coming to an end. All terrorist group leaders are valid targets. His is one less target. The sooner they understand that they can't get away with terror they will stop their terror. Israel has played nice for too long.

[Djinn]

48. so what about

when the Palestinians decide to execute the people THEY beleive are terrorists (and before any responds with "they" already do try to remember liberals aren't supposed to generalise) or what about when the fundies in your own back yard start deciding who is and who isn't a terrosist? maybe only nations can decide this but given who you all currently have in charge I'd be very worried...Dick Cheney starts deciding who's a home grown terrorist, "now where did I put that list of DU members"

[Heyo]

51. I would imagine...

that the helicopter crew was given orders and the location of their target, and were instructed to blow up the car with rockets..

It is Hamas who has chosen the blood red path...

If one of the things they want (besides all the Israelis dead) is the 1967 borders... why kill people en masse who are 12 and 13 years old? Something about that math doesn't add up.

By the way the fact that was was in a wheelchair makes no difference.

Heyo

[Solomon]

57. Marriane. I wonder how long it will be before we see the video

of them using all that hi-tech equipment bought from the good ole USA to target a mosque, and then wait for the sight of that wheelchair coming out of the building. Ironically, it may have been the wheelchair, that confirmed him as a target.

Then watch as the rockets are fired and "boom"...

I say this because a few months ago I was in a place I won't mention, and allowed to see some kind of video feed to a computer from one of those attack helicopter teams assaulting a village in Iraq. They showed various targets around the area and then focused on the mosque. They were waiting for people to leave the mosque.

When the tiny figures began leaving the mosques, the helicopters opened fire. They were using rockets on individual people. The guys who were watching this (my mouth was hanging open), were cheering with every hit, laughing about people trying to hide under trucks and being blown away. They said it was better than any video game they had ever seen. I was atonished, and obviously kept my mouth shut.

Later on I saw a small piece of this aired on tv. It was nothing compared to what I saw that day. What happened here recently, seems like the same m.o. Just target a mosque, and wait until they come out. It's like, "because we waited until they came out of the mosque, we can feel moral, because we didn't bomb the mosque."

[Muddleoftheroad]

58. Pretty Boy Floyd

The Federal authorities waiting for him to go to the movies. When gangland leaders leave their HQs, they are vulnerable. That is when you go after them.

[Alenne]

34. There are no benefits but people get to pretend there are.

Years from now people will still be dying and everyone will be pretending that there is no solution to the problem. Soon Hamas supporters will kill someone to retaliate and Israel will retaliate against that retaliation and it will continue on like it has for years. If either side had leaders who were serious about ending the occupation and the killings there would be peace. For now everybody can pretend that they are doing the best they can to stop all of the violence.

[arewethereyet]

39. thats easy

it leaves a power vacume which initiates squabbling among those who would be the new leader. they get sloppy and highlight new targets for counter terrorism action.

sure the little people get razed but they require leadership to act and there will be none. their ill laid plans go awry and they end up a little more disheartened.

you always take out the head first if you can.

[Manwithchildeyes]

42. What possible benefit comes out of allowing a terrorist leader to survive?

yassin was the leader of a terror group that declared war on Israel. He was valid target for that very reason. He won't be missed.

[Djinn]

49. except by all those Hamas members of course

who are presumably the ones who'll just take his place :eyes:

How many Al Qaeda "members" or associates have been imprisoned or killed since Sept 11 - it didn't stop the Bali bombers or the Madrid bombers did it?

[BillZBubb]

43. Sharon gets more terrorist strikes in Israel

That's just what he and his type want. Sharon is certainly no better than Ahmed Yassin, he may even be worse. They are two sides of the same coin.

[sir_captain]

55. his type?

Care to expound?

[polazarus]

56. This just makes me worry

Just think our tax dollars are being used to support them. Now because of this are going to blow themselves up all over the United States.