Is anyone else disturbed

[Windy]

About the fact that every member of the administration, conservative republicans and the religious right, not to mention their propaganda outlet Fox news' anchors wear an american flag lapel pin?
Didn't the Nazi's sport swastikas on their lapels as Hitler was rising to power?

[tom_paine]

1. Yes, it is another similarity of Busheviks and Nazis

They loved their flags.

They loved their flag lapel pins.

Different flags, same type of people.

[wryter2000]

2. Welcome to DU

I get mighty sick of seeing my flag used in that manner, I can tell you. :mad:

[Jane Austin]

4. So do I.

They stole the flag from us during Vietnam, and now they've done it again.

Well, I've got an American flag on my car next to my Clark sticker, and it'll be next to my Kerry sticker as soon as it arrives.

I won't let them take it away from me.

[Submariner]

3. Fox news bunnies and Bushbots are fascist pigs

[stopthegop]

7. put a lot of thought into that post did you?

face it...other people sometimes think differentl than we do ... doesn't make them facists, or sub human...

[Windy]

18. It was just a comment

I generally put a lot of thoughts into my posts and I find your comment highly offensive. I am bothered by the misuse of the American flag and what it stands for by those who have no respect for democracy and easily forget the reasons why our nation was founded. They only bring up the founding fathers in a twisted manner when it fits their purpose.

I served in the military for this country and am appalled by the actions of this administration. I volunteered to serve my country and defend that flag that they flaunt for their own purposes that have nothing whatsoever to do with patriotism!!

[Free_Thinking1]

22. The "vet" card

I served my country also and I have no problem with them wearing the flag pins. I can't read minds so I have no idea what their reasons are, which is why I think this is a silly, but entertaining thread.

[Windy]

24. You've missed my point

and the fact that a vet accuses another vet of playing the "vet card" is even more offensive than your first response.

[Free_Thinking1]

26. I was simply pointing out that

I don't like the vet card being played. A lot of people have made sacrifices for this country and aren't vets, I just don't think it is an issue. I also don't see what is so offensive about any of my responses.

[smirkymonkey]

34. Exactly, most of them are cowards who

use the flag as a shield to guard them against those who would question their patriotism. They remind me of the "pious", church-going mafiosos - as long as they keep up appearances, their actions are beyond reproach.

The thing is, we know what they think, we know what they do and we know they are anything BUT patriots. Their flag wearing makes a mockery of what the symbol is supposed to stand for. They are no different from those who brandish the cross as they carry out their agenda of hatred and intolerance.

Both symbols have been hijacked by the far right to infuse their agenda with the impression of rightness and infallibility.

[leftofthedial]

32. however in this case,

Submariner is right.

Subhuman fascists.

[Free_Thinking1]

5. Are you kidding me?

Let's seriously find real issues to attack the right on. Not "the right is overly patriotic". I'm sure, though I haven't looked, that there are plenty of democrats sporting American Flag pins and I for one am going to look for it now and will be happy to see it.

[w4rma]

11. Nationalistic, not patriotic. Patriotism requires sacrifice. (n/t)

[Free_Thinking1]

17. And I'm sure no republican has ever sacrificed anything

Come on people, seriously, can we stop spending all our time with stupid stuff like "he wears a flag too much" and focus on actual issues. Or go ahead and don't vote for anyone who ever wears a flag. I don't know who you will vote for, I found some photos of Sen. Kerry wearing the flag.

[jean]

14. Hey there - who can forget last summer's flag autographing?

Haha - b*sh just never fails to amuse us.

Not Up to Code? Embellishing the Flag, Then the Web Site
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A44591-2003Aug25¬Found=true

[jean]

Welcome! It's their monopoly on patriotism, said Bill Moyers - - -

Moyers Wears Flag Pin to Protest Hijacking by Ideologues (this is from spring 2003, I think, but so true still):

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030303.asp#1

[Atman]

6. Marketing wise, they have to

It is the American flag. It can't possibly be called offensive. For an administration supposedly at war, NOT wearing a flag pin would almost certainly open them up to criticism. Crap like this swings both ways. I completely see your point, but I am sure as hell not ready to write off Old Glory as the Official Trademark of The New American Fascists!

[goclark]

8. Regis Philbin too

I find it interesting that Regis still has a flag on the table every day, front and center. Is he telling us that he supports the troops or that he supports Bush?

[MadProphetMargin]

9. Beware jingoists bearing flags.

That is all.

[info being]

10. Yes, American Fascism has been obvious since 9/11

[MadProphetMargin]

12. It's been obvious since 1968.

[leyton]

13. They wear the flag. Good for them.

Are you equating swastikas with the flag?

What about all those campaign signs for Democrats that have stars and stripes? Like John Kerry's logo?

Get a grip.

[MadProphetMargin]

15. No, I think he is equating the USE of the flag with the use of swastikas.

Big difference.

[leyton]

21. I realize that.

But the original post never talks about how the flag is used. Wearing a lapel pin is not using the flag. If it is, as I said, every politician uses the flag and for Democrats to criticize that is hypocritical. Now, if Bush is waving a flag around in his right hand while mocking Kerry, or generally wrapping himself in the flag (as he has done figuratively) that's different from wearing a lapel pin.

[MadProphetMargin]

29. What the administration HAS done is to surround itself in flags, and ask

its opposition "why do you hate America?".

Welcome to Munich, 1936. Attendance of book burnings is strongly encouraged.

[LoZoccolo]

16. This is not the same thing.

The swastika was a symbol of a party that eventually was imposed as a symbol of a country. It signaled a particular ideology. The US ideology is by definition very open-ended - really an ideology for allowing other ideologies.

I am not inherently scared of the US flag - matter of fact I like it - because it's mine too. I don't like people desecrating the flag because it's a cop-out - if you don't like what the country's doing, you should use your power to change it. If the flag starts representing bad things to people, do the work and take the risks to make it recall good things. That's your right and responsibility; it's in your hands. To not take this up, is really a capitulation to the bullshit dictum held by some conservatives to "love it or leave it".

This isn't to say I support the consititutional amendment against flag-burning; another responsibility of mine is to tolerate that viewpoint that I do not accept as my own.

Now what I do have a problem with is people treating the flag like it only represents their viewpoint, and by implication, that all others go against what it means to be American when it doesn't. Like support for the war in Iraq. That's I think is one of the real reasons that liberals complain about it - you see a lot of times when people are flag-waving in this manipulative, coercive fashion, and that disturbs me. If something doesn't work out on a moral or rational level, you can just wrap it in a flag, and declare all other views outside of the flag, but that's bullshit.

[Windy]

20. see above response to the flame posts I've been receiving.

[Butterflies]

19. Oh yea

It bothers me immensely. So they think they're more patriotic than we are because they wear those flag pins? It feels like they have stolen our flag and twisted our country out of shape. :mad:

[Heyo]

23. I'm just trying to get this straight...

Are you comparing an American flag to a Nazi swastica?

Are you saying the people who wear a flag pin and people with Nazi swasticas are the same type of people?

Heyo

[Windy]

28. Its too deep for you apparently

Its an issue of the ideology of this administration and the abuse of the flag. The flag is a symbol of democracy and free expression. People have fought and died for the flag and the rights and freedoms it symbolizes. The administration exploits the flag, i.e., that they are right, everyone else is wrong and if you dare dissent, you are unpatriotic, a traitor. I don't think that's what the flag stands for.

I am not saying the flag represents the same ideals as the nazi symbol! Quite the opposite. Those who use fear and lies to decieve the citizens of this country to believe in a certain ideology have no right to exploit the flag that people have fought and died for.

this issue speaks to the misguided policies and ideology of this administration and continued exploitation. Its not as simple as who's wearing a pin and who isn't. Think a little deeper.

[smirkymonkey]

35. Some of us know what you are talking about...

don't let this thread turn you off from stating your opinions on DU. There are some here that confuse the actual flag with the use of the symbol to manipulate the public.

There is a difference. Any one can wear a flag. Everyone has thier reasons, which need not be explained to anybody. However, when the government co-opts the symbol to serve as a definition of their ideology, the symbol is being exploited.

It's like the word "patriotic", whereas the right has put forth the notion that any questioning of their agenda means that those who oppose it are "unpatriotic". Most of us at DU define patriotism much differently.

[Heyo]

36. not that it's too deep...

I just think you're overcomplicating it....

Anyone I think has the right to wear or display a flag, if they are speaking out for what they think is right, the same way you do and I do, they should be able to wear it..

We tend to have similar goals, just different ways of going about realizing them...

The one set of circumstances where I REALLY feel the flag is being exploited, and people are (ab)using it who have no buisness doing so, are any type of klan rallies and/or the white power cretins. (lower life forms IMHO)

Just because people have right wing ideas, doesn't mean they're exploiting the flag if they wear it... they could say the same for lefties, since left wing people do alot more criticizing of America then they do speaking out in support of it.. whether you go with the "it's patriotic to dissent if you don't like the government" angle or not.. (an angle I don't disagree with necessarily, BTW).. doesn't matter... and it's not a slam on anyone, fact is fact, read the pages of DU.

Any American with good intentions, even if misguided.. should be able to display the flag without being said to exploit it.

Heyo

[Dover]

25. Bush's collapsing economy will likely have a very equalizing effect

for all but the wealthiest 2% of the country. Then we'll see a tectonic shift in political allegiances...along class lines.

[Guava Jelly]

27. People forget America isn't a Piece of Cloth

I put a flag on my car after 911 I kept it there one entire year to the date then i removed it Vowing to not place another one on my car until America started Acting like America Again!!!
My car Still doesnt have a Flag on it But I have a designated place for it When This Orwellian Misadministration is booted out on their Lieing Corrupt ASSES!!!!!
Let them wear a flag pin It means nothing to them.

[rinsd]

30. Sniff, sniff, smells like troll bait to me.

A) That flag isn't just their's. It's your's, it's mine and every American's.

B) If the GOP wished to change the national symbol to an elephant you would have a more accurate analogy.

C) You are falling into the meme trap of "they love the flag, libs want to burn it" by deriding the flag instead of claiming your equal ownership.

[Jacobin]

31. It's jingoistic crap

and yes, its freaking me out.

I don't think it's really necessary for Smirky to have a flag pin on his lapel to identify which country he is from. It is painfully obvious to all.

[rucky]

33. No. It's what comes out of their mouths that bothers me.

confusing symbols with reality has gotten Americans in enough trouble already.