Anybody out there in IT land familiar with a program called the "Witness"

[worldcomflunky]

I just got tipped off from my network of spies/informants that I keep in touch with that Worldcom had this program installed on our servers in Tulsa. Supposedly this program was originally built for call centers but can be used by pretty much anybody and everybody to monitor desktop activity. I was told that it gives management access to watch your desktop activity "live" if they want to and they also have the ability to record you if they want. Pretty much can record all 8 hours of your activity at work and then watch it later like a movie.

The reason I am asking about this is because I occasionally hop on DU from time to time during the day. I don't surf the internet all day like some people but I do like to look at this website from time to time. If management is going to the extent of installing something called the "witness" and plan on using it against us employees, then I need to cover my ass. I don't need to give these bastards anymore reason to lay me off than they already have. It looks like a witch hunt to me. Anybody out there familiar with this program? If so, then please tell me it's true capabilities. Anyway around this program so you don't get busted? Not sure I could survive a full 8 hours without peeking at DU from time to time:). Pleading for help here in Tulsa!!

[KC]

1. Witness

can, does and will record EVERY keystroke you make on that computer.


KC
It also records it visually..as in being able to see your whole monitor screen.

[worldcomflunky]

3. Thanks for your response KC.

I take it that there is no way around it then? Hmmm? I ran a file/folder search for it and found 17 files that were out on the "I" drive. I didn't even know we had an "I" drive until I ran the search. The two big drives we use are the "C" drive which is our personal drive and the "G" drive which the whole group uses. Does "Witness" have to be installed on either the "C" drive or the "G" drive to be able to monitor us or is it good enough that it is installed on the "I" drive to be able to monitor us?

I really would like to know because I don't want to see anybody lose their jobs over this. I know PLENTY of people that are doing shit on-line that they shouldn't be and are going to get busted big time. I would like to be able to warn them. I just don't know how big of a threat this program is which is why I am asking about it. Management should have never given us web access to begin with. We have always had it. Even when I started 10/14/99 it was available to every employee. Never understaood why either. This is the first company I worked for that allowed it. Now they are going to use it against us for some reason.

[KC]

7. I know

how you feel, but when I am at work and want to use the Internet, I stick to ordinary news sites. I do read my email, but very carefully and never, ever open one that might have a picture embedded in it or an attachment.
You're employer will fire you in a heartbeat if you access things they don't think are suitable. I've seen it happen too many times where I work. Actually where I work, they have upgraded to another program that basically records EVERYTHING..even more than Witness did.
My advice is.. Don't take a chance...take a laptop if it's allowed...it's not allowed where I work.

KC

[worldcomflunky]

10. Thanks for the advice KC. I thought the couple of people I talked to

today were exagerating about the threat of this new program. I guess not based on your comments. I have never heard of the name of the program nor the fact one existed that had that capability. Looks like the party is over:). Shit hit the fan when AT&T came out with their accusation a couple of weeks ago about us re-routing calls to avoid paying local access charges. I guess after that upper management decided to do a nazi style crack down on all of us accross the board. That is the only thing I can think of. In the past, they didn't watch web site/desktop activity.

[KC]

11. Well

you're lucky you can even run a file search on the computer at work. They have all that blocked out on ours. About the only thing we can see going to the start button, is programs..and the only program we can see listed, is the calculator. The rest has been disabled.

KC

[worldcomflunky]

12. Damn KC........Who the heck do you work for if you don't me asking?

I got a bad feeling we are headed to the same type of Nazi style tactics where I work. If I didn't have a good network of resources, then I wouldn't know about this right now. It was put in place behind our backs. I didn't believe it until I did a file search for anything with "witness" on it. Sure enough....the bastards put it in last week without any warning to us. A lot of people are going to get busted over this thing. Not sure if I should tip everybody off or not.

[John_H]

31. let us know who you work for

so we won't buy stock in a company that buys $2000 calculators!

[Must_B_Free]

2. get wireless internet for your cell phone

and connect it to your laptop. For mine it was only $20 a month additional for unlimited wireless internet connection (my carrier is T-mobile), then you can view without big brother spying on you.

[worldcomflunky]

5. Sounds like a good idea. However, I don't have a lap top.

Anyway, I can go around this with the PC at work?

[Must_B_Free]

9. no

but if you can afford it you can get a cheap laptop for about $300 that will do the job. If it is a matter of keeping your job and your sanity, it will be worth the investment. I recommend a toshiba portege. tiny and well built. check fleabay.

[worldcomflunky]

14. Thanks Must B free. Not sure if I can explain a laptop in my cube though.

I might have to roll the dice and try to hide one if I can. I am not sure I can keep my sanity if I can't check the DU website occasionally while I am at work:). A lap top might just save the day. $300 bucks is a small price to pay to keep ones sanity.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. also, unless you are dialing in...

they can and probably will track website access through logging on their firewalls. They could do that without any monitoring software on your computer.

TheProdigal

[Vitruvius]

39. Exactly. Don't do ANYTHING at work

that you wouldn't do if the boss were looking over your shoulder. Ever. Because, in effect, he is. If he doesn't get you thru the computer, he can get you thru the firewall (internet) or the PBX (telephone calls).

So no DU, no surfing, no e-mail, no nothing. Not at work!

All this snooping is perfectly legal because it's THEIR computer, telephone, firewall, office, etc. They're allowed to bug their own equipment, facilities, and premises in any way they choose.

And the more vicious outfits will not only fire you, they'll say you were fired for STEALING -- e.g. "stealing time", or "stealing" the use of the computer, telephone line, etc. Never mind you didn't cost them a penny (e.g. if you did it on your lunch break), never mind that this doesn't fit the common sense definition of "stealing" -- they'll say it, and in the current climate, they can get away with it. And it will badly hurt your chances of landing another job.

Bear in mind also: the next time your company decides to lay people off, they'll look for people they can fire "for cause" to get rid of first -- because if you're fired "for cause", you typically don't get unemployment benefits.

Bear in mind also: most managers are RETHUGNICANS -- and many of them will be delighted at the opportunity to fire a Democrat "for cause".

I have always watched my step at work. No internet, only the most innocuous personal calls (and very few at that), no political discussions, no nothing. Say nothing and keep a low profile at work -- and work like hell on our own time for the Democrats in the next election.

Vitruvius

P.S: There's a monitoring program for a large non-commercial entity that runs on the firewall and does everything that "Witness" does -- and more. It's only a matter of time before such programs hit the commercial market -- if they haven't already. I'd forget the laptop.

[worldcomflunky]

16. Thought just hit me Must B Free

I checked with a couple of people that DO have laptops in our group. They have to log into the servers/network where I work with them. They had the "I" Drive showing up on their laptops. The "Witness" program was never installed on their laptops BUT when you log into at work the "I" drive is still showing up on their laptops which has the "witness" program on it. Are they safe since the program is technically not on their laptops or are they just as screwed as the rest of us because they dial into a network that contains the "I" drive?

[Must_B_Free]

34. Here:

Here are examples of awesome laptops cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3425336405&category=31560

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3425205923&category=31560

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3425237790&category=31560

these are ultra thin business class, tiny and light to tote around each day. Great screen. Great quality. has USB, so you can plug you cell phone in. was $20 more a month for unlimited wireless internet for my Tmobile plan. I plug a mini usb cable into the phone and the laptop. Speed is like 56k modem. Totally private network.

[KC]

4. Also

there is absolutely NO way around the program..at least that I know of.

KC

[worldcomflunky]

6. What about Must B free suggestion about using a laptop?

N/T

[KC]

8. A laptop

is the only way. The program actually has to be installed on the computer so it wouldn't affect your own laptop.

KC

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. Witness Systems programs ARE designed to do what you ask...

however, they ARE designed to be used as a customer service tool. The programs are primarily used to record conversations with customer service reps and in situations where by law they are required to keep those sorts of records (like 911 call centers). They can also be used to monitor system use, but the design was geared around efficiency and training of customer service personnel.

So, Witness Systems, in and of itself, is not designed to snoop. If your management is using it that way, that is an issue with them.

TheProdigal

[KC]

17. Yes

and it also prevents (and catch) employees who might be doing fraudulent activity.
I can see how it can be beneficial, but it really can be carried too far.

KC

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. you got it

just about ANY system can be taken too far. If a corporation wishes to enforce limited access to the web, then they should have expressed policies indicating what is and is not acceptable and then enforce it evenly.

Corporations do invest large sums of money in their network infrastructure and should be allowed to monitor them as they wish, but if they are going to limit access, it needs to be universally known and consistently applied.

TheProdigal

[jagguy]

18. there are MANY tools avialable for this management task

they are far less extensive but tellign enough. If you notice that certain URLs become prohibited, its because the count of people hitting them is excessive (some keep tabs on who as well as just the tally).

And virtually any large corporation is running something. When you get that large, bandwidth is a significant budget line item that requires management.

The short form is, if you thing you're "safe" you're probably dreaming.

[KC]

20. Yep

"The short form is, if you thing you're "safe" you're probably dreaming."

And many people will only wake up when they are being escorted out the door!

KC

[worldcomflunky]

21. Very True KC. Several people got "verbal" warnings today which is what

started all this. I started making some calls to find out what was going on and my spies/informants told me that the "Witness" program was officially up and running. Never heard of it much less know what the hell it was capable of doing. I was told today that it could record everything you do and management doesn't have to be monitering it "live" to do it. You guys have confirmed that. This sucks a big one. Oh well.....I will get the word out tomorrow so people don't lose their damn jobs over this. Plenty will if they keep doing what they have been doing the last four years I have been there. I can understand a company wanting to do this but in my opinion it seems fair to let everybody know that big brother is out there watching. They haven't done that with us. Seems like they are looking for a way to fire some people without having to pay some benefits which pisses me off to the max.

[SayitAintSo]

22. Your Company probably has the grounds to fire you now if they wanted to

As I understand it, anything you do on company time using company resources ( PHONE, PC ) they have a right to say it must be company related. How ever most companies will allow - ususally in unwritten policy, some limited personal use, as long as you do not put the comany at risk ( porno ) or abuse the resource ( too much non productive time ). The tools are there - believe me to track you computer usage and phone calls. Also, iif you are in a large company they can put hidden cameras in your office .... completely legal. Just as the tools can convict you, they can vindicate you as well. Be careful out there !

[worldcomflunky]

23. Damn.....Sayit Aint So!?!? Thanks for the nice pick me up message:)!!!!

If they research my past on-line activity, then I am toast. I am always hitting DU during the day:). I live in the middle of the bible belt so the mere fact I have ever logged onto DU is probably grounds to get me fired considering the right wingers I work with. I would probably be less likely to get fired for looking at animal porn than looking at Demecratic Underground. Shit is pretty bad here in Tulsa. I still can't believe this state elected a Democratic governor. That one still has me scratching my head. Not that I am bitching. Just can't believe this state did it.

[worldcomflunky]

24. Kick for the evening crowd.

Perhaps there is some IT guru out there tonight that can give words of wisdom on how to NOT get entraped and fired by this program. There are rumors that there are more layoffs this month. I think they are using this program as a guide to help with that process. If so, then I want to warn as many people as possible so they are not "picked" to be layed off due to web time or web sites they might look at daily.

[KC]

25. Just curious

are your phone calls recorded too? Well, with Witness they are or can be now :)

KC

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. they don't need witness systems to do that...

TheProdigal

[KC]

28. True

but it is one feature of it

KC

[ProdigalJunkMail]

29. I know...

The author of this thread makes it sound as if Witness Systems programs were designed as spyware...which they are not. Worldcom had been monitoring its workers' systems via various methods for at least three years. The installation of the eQuality suite of products has nothing to do with what the author suggests.

TheProdigal

on edit:damn my grammar sucks

[worldcomflunky]

33. KC.....they used to be recorded about 5 years ago.

To the best of my knowledge they are not recorded now. Interesting you bring that up. Any reason you brought that up?

[KC]

35. Nope

just thought I'd let you know it's a possibility.

KC

[SayitAintSo]

30. Your company MUST have a media usage policy that is public knowledge

In order to use your PC usage as a grounds for dismissal. Personal occasional usage is generally acceptable ... even if it's DU !!! I check DU at lunch and one or two time during the day. I don't consider it a violation. And I'm "management" in an IT shop ... ALSO in a red state ... BUCKLE of the bible belt ....

[Eloriel]

27. Well, then, you'd better eat your lunch at your desk! n/t

.

[TOhioLiberal]

32. Witness Program

From the description of the program, it sounds like this program is being used where I work...I am a customer service rep for an ISP. Everybody knows that 'big brother' is watching but still they try to surf porn and check their email on company computers. :argh:

Since I enjoy eating regularly, I do all my surfing at home O8)

[Noordam]

36. I Wrote the Witness Systems program for SUN and

other Unix systems.

The main program is for call centers. It has a part that ties into your phone PBX to record calls. The program can be directed to schedule the recording of a persons call/screen work. In a call center not only what you are talking to a customer about, but typing is helpful.

One problem with the software was the Lan useage. With large Unix screens just a bitmap of a square of changed data was sent down the line to be recorded at the server end. The problem is more changes on screens more data sent.

Witness Systems in Atlanta was a fun place to work. They treated their full time developers well. There was 5 of them and they all had private offices with windows and TV sets. I was a contract programmer for the Sun project. So of the 6 software developers, I was the only one that worn shoes to work in the summer. The standard summer clothes was tee-shirt/shorts no shoes. :D

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. where are you now?

I am at Witness in ATL but headed over to UK for an extended stay. Glad to know someone else here is at least putting out the word that Witness is not designed to be used as spyware on some unwitting dupe's PC.

By the way, my office does not have a TV. I am feeling that that portion of the benefits program may have changed a little.

TheProdigal

[Noordam]

40. I am a contractor in that lives in Tampa

but work the east coast. I worked for a guy as I remember named Tom who was the lead developer. His wife was also a developer.


The only negative thing I remember was the "lab" person. He loved to play Rush L shit and my cube was just over the wall from the "lab".

[farmbo]

38. First off...change your moniker to "Worldcomdedicatedworker"

:toast: