The gig is not up, the shit hasn't hit the fan and Bush* isn't toast

[Q]

- This is getting laughable. How many times do we have to go through this 'Bush* can't possibly survive' scenario before we finally realize that the Bush* government is above the law, the media complicit and the Democrats enablers?

- The sham of a 9-11 commission is just the latest in a series of coverups in the last three years. This commission and the resultant 'news reports' are not about finding or reporting truth...but about creating plausible deniability and both sides getting together to agree it was the fault of no one and everyone.

- My fellow DUers: there was a coup in 2000. Democracy, representative government and the free press are dead. Those who want to restore a government of, by and for the people now have two opponents: The Bush* Republicans/Neocons and the 'moderates' in the Democratic party.

- The inaction, appeasement and weak leadership of the Democratic party practically guarantees Bush* another four years. The whole world awaits decisive action from them and all they get are excuses, bipartisanship 'cooperation' and complicity.

- The People are on their own.

[camero]

1. I agree

It's a sham. The question for us is, do we come together or keep fighting each other?

Because neither party is going to help us.

[Q]

11. I'm on the side of anyone...

...who wants to see the Bush* government investigated, tried and prosecuted for crimes that no other president* would survive.

- Democrats need to start asking themselves which side their on. You can't enable Bush* and get a Democrat elected in November at the same time.

[camero]

16. I do too

I'm just not optimistic about the ethics of either party anymore though Kerry will get my vote.

[maddezmom]

23. I'm on the same side as you "Q"

time to take a stand.

[Andy_Stephenson]

2. Sadly

you speak the truth.

[Coventina]

3. Thank you

Every time I get my hopes up that the cabal has finally hung themselves, well, it fizzles and nothing comes of it.

I'm done with being optimistic.

:evilfrown:

[AmericanLiberal]

9. DNC is problem-- we have to get rid of them

What's wrong is the Democratic party. I swear if the media hadn't taken Dean's remark out on Hussein out of context in December, or if the Iowa caucus did not determine everything, WE WOULD BE IN CONTROL of this stupid party. But, Kerry is not the problem. The problem is Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and their incompetent, spineless, failure to reach out to both their own base and to the American people.

[Q]

12. The media is indeed part of the problem...

...and perhaps as dangerous as the Bush* government itself. The American media has become just another CORPORATION looking at the bottom line and trying to please their stockholders...in this case RWing ldeologues.

[patricia92243]

39. Dean for Chairman of DNC!

[camero]

52. I think we should just scrap it entirely

It's starting to stand for Democrats Need Corps.

[0007]

63. Takes time baby, it takes time - 'tis coming

'Ya got to stick and stay
and watch it pay
'Ya can't be a voter if
you're gonna be a floater

[Stevendsmith]

4. Thank you

The "OMG! Bush is Toast"! posts are a joke.

However, I do believe that BushCo will suffer an electoral defeat.

I believe their days are numbered, but they should have been marched out of the White House in handcuffs years ago.

[historian]

57. why do you say that?

electoral defeat? he cant win california or new york i grant you that but what about all the loonie states???

[RichM]

5. Exactly right. This is the long & short of it. n/t

[Insider]

6. right on cue

or right on, Q

it is good to have someone eloquently express these thoughts.

[theoceansnerves]

7. unfortunately

you speak the truth.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

8. I hate to admit it...

but I'm starting to get the nasty feeling that were going to get slimed again. We have lost control of our government. Our country is no longer a democracy, its a plutocracy where political favors are commodity du jour.

[Cocoa]

10. Bush is toast

worst president ever, and everyone knows it, more and more every day.

[Q]

14. Thanks for the laugh...

...enjoyed it. But please tell me who owns and has control of the 'toaster'?

[Cocoa]

19. voters do

despite right-wingers' deliberate attempt to degrade politics and discourage people from voting.

[Q]

43. Voters don't own the toaster...

...although they're encouraged to believe that they do.

- You're right...the RWingers started this war to degrade political discourse and demonize the opposition. But there are many 'moderates' who seem to be discouraging the Left from fighting back.

- The people will vote for Democrats who stand up for them.

[tom_paine]

77. And how can they do that if the voting systems are corrupt?

I firmly believe, given all the well-established semi-legal (for the Busheviks, anyway) Manual Disenfranchisement Tactics used in 2000 and likely long before, combined with the now 25% of us who vote on Touchscreen "Stalin" machines, will make it necessary that Kerry win by 10% to "win" by 1%.

Can we deliver Kerry that kind of undeniable victory that cannot be stolen? Or is the whole thing a pipe dream and the Busheviks will block and stuff as many votes as they need, as they did in 2000.

[coloradodem2005]

13. While I agree that we cannot be overly optomistic...

...Bush does not exactly have momentum right now. More and more revelations are coming out, making him look stupid or like a terrible president. No Bush is not toast and we need to fight him fang and claw, but his situation is progressively worsening.

[Q]

17. You're right...we can't stop fighting...

...but neither should we be lulled into believing that Republicans or Democrats plan to seek justice in our name.

[OneBlueSky]

15. couldn't agree more . . .

until I see John Kerry jumping up and down and screaming bloody murder about the absolute need for a verifiable paper trail for electronic voting machines, my attitude will remain mildly hopeful, but not at all optimistic . . . right now BushCo owns EVERYTHING, and they consider themselves untouchable . . . and, right now, they may very well be . . . how the Democrats behave in the coming weeks and months will determine, in large part, whether this country will be given over permanently to the corporatists, the theocrats, and the dominionists . . . this is quite possibly THE most critical time in the history of this nation, and most people are more interested in voting for the latest "American Idol" than they are in informing themselves and voting intelligently for president and Congress . . .

[Q]

20. It's not too late for the Democrats...

...and I hope they prove me wrong by jumping on Bush* like shit on velcro. But I fear that they'll put up a phony, ineffective fight simply to look tough but do nothing about this corrupt government in the end.

[bobbieinok]

18. BBV voting and TV , radio media pro bushco 24/7 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mzmolly]

21. Give it time Q. These things have to be played out carefully...

I'd rather the shit hit the fan this fall, when * doesn't have time for damage control.

[Q]

26. Three years isn't enough time for you?

- Don't you think that if either party was going to do anything about the Bush* Neocon government they would have done it by now?

- Democrats have been fooled into thinking that all we have to do is wait and Bush* will eventually self-destruct. That's not going to happen. Why? Because the institutions and instruments of law and justice have been perverted and bent to the will of the fascists in power.

[mzmolly]

35. No, it isn't. 3 years and 9 months is.

Just before the elections.

As you know, the media has plenty of time to help the Bush regime brian wash the public otherwise.

[psychopomp]

107. 9-11 and anthrax scared the Dems into silence

That is how Dumbya and Co. have gotten their free ride. The fact is that it has taken this long for the effect of the terror attack and the concomitant national chauvinism to play out; now the truths about the Iraq war and the failings of the "War on Terror" are coming to light just as the public mood is being shaken violently from its slumber.

People went to sleep, they let the Bushistas take control because they were scared shitless by the confusion and possibility of the disintegration of what social order is left at the beginning of the 21st century.

The populace does not want to "snap out of it" because reality is just as frightening and messed up as it would be had AlQ been successful in fomenting anarchy.

[MadProphetMargin]

22. Well, ya didn't think he was gonna just ROLL OVER, now did ya?

Cripes...the LAST thing we need to do is make the same mistake about HIM that HE made about OBL.

[Canuckistanian]

24. As long as there are apologists

The BFEE can rule blame free. Without the likes of Rush, Hannity, O'Crybaby, Lieberman, Zell et al, where would they be?
The press might have a fighting chance to tell the truth without gross misdirection, not to mention intimidation and slander.
As long as there are those who attack the messenger, refuse to talk details and specifics and just play the 10 sec. out-of-context soundbite, there's just no winning.

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. But it's the spineless Democrats' fault, doncha know?

:eyes: Damn, where's that rain cloud smilie when ya need it?

[jeanmarc]

25. Opinion polls with the lack of knowledge of who Kerry is

My theory is that the opinion polls on Kerry/Bush are flawed, because they represent only the ABB, or Anyone But Bush, for the most part. I don't think Dummya will win this 'Kerry support' over and he can only lose on the undecideds as people learn about Kerry and learn about Bush.

The big thing for Kerry is to avoid heavy bleeding. Bush cannot gain support with these folks again without a catastrophic event.

I think if Kerry runs his quick strike campaign, fast retort, and some how can seem more above the fray than Bush, that he can coast to the White House. I think Cronkite is wrong, there's no need to go left. He's right in that there's no reason to run away from some things because people will welcome some change.

Right now, unless Kerry is Dukakis II, I can't see him losing alot of support and he has a nice electoral advantage right now. I'm pretty confident about how things are going and that is skewed by this week. Kerry getting R&R and Bush having to play damage control.

Bush never really had a chance to define Kerry during his vacation, a well deserved one after the hard primary season.

Again, it's more an ABB, and I doubt the ABB voters are prone to going back.

[G_j]

27. well, they've proven they can get away with anything

absolutely anything! And the 9-11 commission is a complete whitewash.

[Q]

32. The media is helping...

...to make sure no real scandals hit the headlines BEFORE November. This puts us at a distinct disadvantage...with a press hiding behind the first amendment to do their partisan dirty work.

[G_j]

37. they've committed almost every crime in the

book and the media are accomplices pure and simple: aiding and abetting

[Deja Q]

28. I saw Kerry's tv ad...

He was reading from a cue card and he didn't exactly speak with passion.

Even * can look straight into a camera lens and outright lie. WHy can't Kerry tell the truth without having to look slightly upward and to the right side?

[maddezmom]

29. haven't seen the ad yet

what was Kerry talking about, while looking slightly upward and to the right side?

[Deja Q]

33. Where cue cards are placed

Just like the corball Super America adverts I'd seen. If you're looking at a camera, they put cuecards in close proximity to the lens - but obviously not directly in front of it. You don't want the dude looking down, so they put the card up and to a side. Kerry was looking (from his angle) to the right.

"To the right" has no political meaning.

[maddezmom]

38. gotcha, give him time

he'll catch on to the ropes of advertising.

[Q]

30. The 'moderates' hate passion...

...even in times of peril. They're so afraid of the RWingers that they'll go out of their way to act nice as to not offend them.

- I don't know if Kerry has what it takes. Time will tell. But he MUST get on the bus and admit that we need to do more than simply TRY to vote the Bushies out of office.

[tom_paine]

80. Damnit, Q, not ALL moderates!

Not THIS Moderate!

[LifeDuringWartime]

31. i doubt anything will change for decades

there will have to be another coup, this time by the people, for the people.

[Q]

34. It's good to see...

...that at least some Democrats recognize the 2000 selection as a coup and not a 'conspiracy theory'.

- We're in deep trouble if we can't come together and at least agree on what has happened to our nation.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. I'm hoping that republican Dick Clarke will be the hero in all of this.

If anyone that is the most credible, it would be him. Worked with Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II. Imo, that guy has earned the respect of both parties. But, of course, which party is disrespecting him now? You guessed it. Those same hypocritical republicans that always wail about honesty and integrity!

[revcarol]

42. I thought that other Republican, Scott Ritter, would do Bush in.

Remjember way back then?

Unless Kerry gets some balls, and I DON'T MEAN GO MORE MILITARISTIC, and solidifies his base, WE'RE TOAST.

[PassingFair]

49. Lost my lunch...

when the reporter on "liberal" NPR described Clarke as a "Clinton Administration Hold-Over.
:puke:
:puke:

[tom_paine]

82. NPR is now right-centrist

No illusions there.

Of course, "right-centrist" equates to "flaming liberal" in the Orwellian Pravda of Imperial Amerika.

[David Zephyr]

40. Q, You Are Slowly Sinking Into My Jaded World.

About two years ago, I wrote that the DU was a "cult of people hopelessly addicted to hope."

I didn't mean it in a cruel way, but wrote that to temper people's hopes.

We live in a totalitarian corporatist state now.

The only tough job left belongs to the news organs who have the task of convincing Americans that they are still "free".

As far as placing any hope in this 9/11 Commission, here's a few words from someone far wiser than me:

"Whenever a government commission is set up to study a problem, we can fairly well predict that nothing will result." --- Howard Zinn.

[Q]

41. I was 'jaded' the moment I realized...

...that Democrats weren't going to do anything about an election stolen in broad daylight. That was the beginning of the end.

- Once again the RWingers and Centrists are busy manufacturing consent. This commission was never meant to find the truth or prosecute wrongdoing. It was meant to get the Bushies off the hook. You can count on the media reporting it just that way.

- And there's another big lie being circulated: that the Democrats are 'powerless' to stop Bush* because they're in the minority.

[Cat Atomic]

44. Why, if this sentiment is so widespread here, do we berate

the Greens so damn much?

[Q]

45. The Greens should be allies...

...but they have been rejected by the moderates of the party as too 'radical' for their corporate-leaning, go along to get along ways.

- We need all the friends we can get to fight the very powerful Bush* machine.

[tom_paine]

87. Sorry to be such a stickler, Q, but that isn't all of it by far

Some of us recognize that the Greens have some valid points, but rather than build locally from the ground up they have leapt to the fore at the worst possible time for our nation.

Some of us believe that the Greens should have built from below in local and state offices before a presidential run. Some of us believe that, given the coming freight train and the high stakes of November, to vote Green for president (if such an office even really still exists), is the equivalent of applying zit cream to your face while your pantlegs are blazing and melting the flesh on your legs.

I am not looking for personal commentary nor compliments. I know that I'm not the only moderate who feels this way & has great anger towards the Greens because of it.

And, more than ever before, I can NEVER forgive Ralph Nader, whether he has betrayed his nation for Bushevik $$$ or, as sometimes happens, he has betrayed his nation through conviction, ignorance, and ego.

(I believe that was Vytatus Quisling's story, too, though I can;t remember)

[Disturbed]

46. Green Party Member

As a Green Party member I reluctently will vote for Kerry. He is indeed the lesser of evils.

"Our country is no longer a democracy, its a plutocracy where political favors are commodity du jour."

I have been posting that for a few years. Until recently, I have not seen anyone lese agree with that.

A few places to explain Plutocracy/Oligarchy.


http://www.jamesglaser.org/2002/p20020716.html

http://www.rockisland.com/~rwbehan/.

Go to your fave search engine and type in "plutocracy". In my view America fits the description.

[Cat Atomic]

47. You aren't alone in holding that sentiment.

I'm with you. What we've got in America are two parties that represent different corporate factions, and that is IT.

We make a big deal about the Republicans pandering to the religious nuts. We laugh at them because they don't see how they're being fooled and sold out.

But the Democratic Party does exactly the same shit, only they do it with symbolic support for labor issues and social issues. They don't deliver for us any more than the Republicans deliver for the fundamentalists. They sell us out every fucking time.

This is why I generally vote Green. I wasn't planning on voting Green in November, but Jesus- after reading Kerry's statements on Venezuela, I'm tempted.

[Q]

48. We should do more than simply 'hope' they count all the votes...

...in November. We should DEMAND it. But neither party seems to be taking election fraud very seriously.

- Fortunately...there are still some very passionate people on the Left. Unfortunately...the centrists have marginalized them to the point where they have no effective voice within the party.

[Cat Atomic]

53. Exactly.

Centrists need to go.

[PassingFair]

54. Please don't,

Cat. As in the last election, any non-dem vote really will help the PUkes. I'm not thrilled with Kerry, but if it hadn't been for Dean, Clark and Kucinich getting me all excited, I prolly would have held my nose and voted for the dem, like always.
I got spoiled by Dean, speaking out loudly and often, common sense. Now, Kerry seems like a limp piece of asparagus when I couldda had the whole buffet table. But I'd rather choke down the limp asparagus than eat the poison food of the republican party that's been shoved down my throat against my will for the last 3-1/2 years. I don't think our country will survive intact if they have control for another 4.

[mike_c]

50. we kicked butt in 2002 too....

Gotta love the republican wing of the Democratic Party....

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

51. Friendly Fascism

Bertrand Gross had this sussed 20 years ago.

[historian]

55. sadly i must agree

but if kerry can show some signs of passion and spirit and keeps on hammering, not at bush per se, but at all the disasters in the making because of bush we might have a chance.

[Selwynn]

56. You know I was thinking the exact same thing, Q

But ~

I think that people sometimes just NEED to hope. I think that's where the "Bush is toast!" stuff comes from every other day when someone things there's something that might bring Bush down.

I don't want it to happen, but I'm very afraid there are going to be a lot of severely shell-shocked people here in November. At least I'm prepared for it..

[Dhalgren]

59. And we all should absolutely prepare for it!

When the Republicans stole the government and ended the Republic in 2000, I was simply shocked that no one seemed to realize what had happened. There were numerous articles and a book or two about how the Republicans and the Five Criminal Justices engineered the Coup of 2000, but then...nothing. So we get all caught up in protesting the Empire and the loss of our freedoms and we lose sight of the fact that we have lost our country - I'm guilty of this, too. It is easy to get side tracked onto issues and circumstances where it looks like we might have some positive effect. But in the background, always lurking, is the great emptiness that was once our nation - there is nothing now but the howling wind and the ghosts of the citizens we once were.

I will join any group or movement that has even the slimmest of chances of regaining our country. It won't be through the established political cartoons we all belive in so strongly, but through an as yet unformed banding together of like-minded "dead-enders".

[tom_paine]

88. I'm afraid I agree, Selwynn

And yes, I am prepared to sit slack-jawed like a Soviet, and watch Comrade Bunnypants* "win" again.

Kerry must win by 10% to "win" by 1%.

[dawn]

58. I still think Bush* will lose.

I don't know why...that's just my gut feeling.

If he doesn't, I think he will fuck everything up so bad that there won't be a Republican president (or a majority in the congress) for a long, long time.

[osaMABUSh]

60. In '04 more '00 Gore voters for Bush or '00 Bush voters for Kerry?

To be very simple about it, I don't see many Gore voters going to Bush while I can see more '00 Bush voters leaving him and moving to Kerry.

The net loss for Bush gives it to Kerry. (Nader will have a small and less than '00 affect)

[BillZBubb]

61. I agree with your subject line, but not your analysis.

The Democrats have actually shown some spine of late--Dean got them going. Kerry will put up a fight. He's not an animated guy, but he's not a milquetoast either.

Bush*s advantages are incumbency, money, and the media. The money and the media can't build up his positives, but they can increase Kerry's negatives--which we already see happening a bit. The only reason Bush* is even showing a pulse in this race is because the ignorant public views him as a "strong leader". If Kerry can find a way to crack that phony facade, Bush is toast. If not, it's a tough fight.

Most people don't know anything about Kerry. He'll get a big boost at the Democratic convention when people will start to realize he has the gravitas to be president. Then, just being in a debate with Shrub will make people realize how nice it would be to have a president who is actually coherent. Bush*s money and the corporate media won't be able to stop that.

[Berserker]

64. We can not have the attitude of there is no way to win

and everything is against us. We have to keep fighting and never have that attitude. Of course the smirk Regime will twist everything thats said and lie and the RW media will go on putting the lies on as truth and not give us a chance. But we all know the truth. And in the end we will win. The bush regime, the RW media,and corporate America can kiss my ass. Damn the torpedoes Full speed ahead!

[Q]

68. Not to rain on your parade...

..but 'knowing' the truth means little if your government controls a 'free' press doing its best to hide that truth.

- The attitude is not that there's 'no way to win'. It's that we should be aware that the system is rigged against us. If you don't find a way to repair the system...then we will indeed lose.

[Virginian]

105. The trick to the debates will be...

Not the attitude by Kerry that "I am smarter than he." but the ability to get the audience in on it so that it seems like "We are all smarter than George Bush."

Gore came off as an intellectual snob and turned off some of the swing voters. Kerry must not make the same mistake.

[napi21]

62. Don't put the 911 commission down until the results are filed.

I've read the transcripts of the first hearings, and I watched the entire hearings today. Yes, there is partisan politics playing here, but that's to be expected. There are some very good people on this commission who I think are really trying to get to the truth...if that's possible.

Wait until you hear the final results before you slam everybody.

[Q]

66. It's not much of a hearing if you can predict the results...

...in advance. Hell...they put on a better show in the Iran/Contra hearings. At least they pretended to be angry in that one.

- Your wait and see attitude suggests that you don't quite 'get it' yet. The hearings are rigged to provide a foregone conclusion...just like our elections.

- They're asking the Bush* officials questions as if they expect them to finally start telling the truth.

[clyrc]

65. I try not to scream it on this board too much

but I'm scared about the outcome of the next election. Here is my reasoning: They got away with stealing an election with ease last time. Who is to stop them this time? The people who didn't realize it was stolen? The people who don't want to believe it was stolen? Do I have to mention all the embarrassed faces I see when I talk about the stolen election? I'm pegged as a radical something or other when I talk about the obvious.

My experiences with the last election cycle confirmed my worst fears about American Democracy. I DO NOT think giving up without a fight is an option, but I'm not overly optimistic.

[Q]

67. The silence of the Democratic Party...

- I'd really like to know what happened to the Dem party. It's as if they're nowhere to be found when they're needed the most. Granted...there are a few 'fighting Dems' in the Congress and Senate...but they're treated like 'conspiracy nuts' by both parties. Time after time they sound a warning...and no one listens.

- This morning's headlines about the 9-11 commission? They called the commission 'critical' of Bush*. Critical! That's about the extent of it. There is simply no one left in our government with the power or will to seek justice.

- Welcome to the one-party state.

- On edit: On CSPAN this morning: the Right is blaming...you got it...Clinton. They're determined to pin 9-11 on him.

[Q]

69. I'd like to hear from those who think Bush* is 'imploding'...

...because I see absolutely no signs of this. What makes you think that 9-11 will harm him in any way? At least half the nation thinks it was Clinton's fault and the other half has had their voices ripped from them.

- We're refighting the civil war. The country is divided along ideological lines and even many Democrats seem to be on Bush's* side.

- It's looking more and more like Kerry will be treated like Gore...belittled in the press and his own party leadership helping the other side with support for their war policies.

[Jacobin]

70. <crickets chirping>

The polls tell all. Half the country is on the drug of deficit spending to allow tax cuts and "cheap" oil paid for by deficit spending on the military to conquer oil fields to fuel their Hummers.

The other half don't like his cowboy ass and want him gone.

[Q]

71. History is repeating itself...

...if you watched the Iran/Contra hearings...you'll see similarities in that both sides are lining up to protect their own asses in the 9-11 commission. They're not looking for accountability...just a way out.

- Even the Democrats on the commission are saying the Bush* exhausted diplomacy before attacking Iraq. None of them are even suggesting that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.

- The fix is in. Nothing will come of the 9-11 commission...except 'exoneration' for both parties.

[Triana]

72. the 9-11 commission hearings are pathetic...

...I listened to them. They're just a damn dog and pony show. NOTHING is being accomplished by them, and they were just put up for show - period.

bu$hit isn't about to let the truth get out via those hearings. Best thing to do is buy the books coming out to get the real stories, because Clear Channel and the rest of the media chattel are not going to tell the truth, either - they'll only echo what the bu$hit WH tells them to.

Can you spell 'Goebbels'? How about HITLER?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Most people felt the same way about Richard Nixon.

[Q]

78. The difference was that the Neocons didn't have control...

...of our government and republicans and democrats alike still believed in the Constitution.

- The Watergate hearings may have been the last REAL hearings this government has held. They didn't try to cover up the facts to make either party look good or bad. Both sides knew Nixon was a crook and weren't afraid to say it.

- Today we really have only ONE party...where both sides of the political spectrum represent the interests of the ruling class. That's why neither side can afford to have their corporate government exposed for their wrongdoing.

[tom_paine]

90. You are right on with your first two lines

I am not ready to accept your assessment in the third.

It is possible, you know, for the Democrats in Congress to be spineless and weak as the German Social Democrats of 19333 (and they HAVE shown at least a little more spine of late) and NOT be colluding with the Imperials.

[Enraged_Ape]

74. Bush is the most hated man on Earth today

If it were just up to the voters, I have no doubt that he would be escorted out of the White House on a rail or in handcuffs come January.

But these crooks will cheat, steal, pay people off and do just anything to stay in power. They absolutely MUST stay in office, or every one of their nefarious deeds will come to light and they would all be looking at jail time.

[Q]

86. Agreed...

- Just look at what happened in 2000. Outright election fraud and civil rights abuses...the SC illegally stopping the legal recount...mobs storming election places...and the Bushies came out smelling like roses.

- How anyone can think they won't do it again is beyond me. They certainly won't get much resistance from the compliant Dem leadership.

[dusty64]

75. I'm afraid I agree on

all points but the last. I don't think the regime will be "elected" in November, but if its close the diebold machines will ensure "victory". Until the Democrats unite around a purpose and agenda things will not get much better, I have suspected there are powerful factions within our opposition that do NOT want this change. If we can't root them out and cleanse the Party from the bottom up, we will probably have to slowly fashion a third party and hopefully things won't be messed up beyond repair by the time we accomplish this.

[Q]

85. The Bushies copped the 2000 election...

...but they still call him the 'elected president'.

- I would have more confidence about November if the Democrats were doing everything they could to guarantee a free and fair election.

[tom_paine]

76. Not all moderates, Q

I feel compelled to stick up for myself and the few others in the "unconventional" moderates club who, while equally distrusting Left and Right, recgnize that the duty of any moderate is to maintain moderation and power balance sometimes means (when things are as badlky out of whack as they are now) that it is necessary and prudent to wholeheartedly join one side and throw "caution to the wind".

In other words, let's defeat Bunnypants, let's hit back HARD and dish it back...then we'll worry (if that will even be necessary) about curtailing liberal excess.

But I don;t think we ae going to have to worry about "liberal excess" for quite some time, given the odious gerrymandering and borderline-fraud the Busheviks have pulled to gain an almost unbreakable majority.

One-Party Rule, just like Totalitarian Monsters like it.

Anyway, Q, I just wanted to point out that not ALL moderates are in opposition to your thinking.

[Q]

81. Sorry for the generalization...

...but I feel it's the moderates/centrists in our LEADERSHIP who are the problem. And I will gladly admit that you're not among those moderates here at DU who blindly defend the Bush* Appeasers.

- Liberals have been out of power for a very long time. There IS no liberal influence in government and very little if any in the mainstream media. Liberals would kick Bush's* ass if they were in control of the Dem party.

[tom_paine]

84. Even with the current Pravda environment?

I mean, look at what Comrade Putin did using the Bush Playbook to Russia.

Read the editorials criticizing him for what he did in creating his "managed democracy" the idea for which seems to have come directly from Karl Rove's brainstem...

Hi-LAR-ious! The words they use to criticize Putin are words which they could be used equally and correctly (less so, considering that Bunnypants* is forced to move slower due to our National Traditions, Customs, Mores, and a hevaily armed populace possibly damaging the prize before full possession is taken.

(we can thank our lucky stars Bunnypants* is forced to move a little slower for the moment...however much time we have left, this extra respite between Liberty and Full Tyranny, a gift of the Founding Fathers, is much appreciated)

[FlaGranny]

79. Ah, Q,

still spreading your gloom and doom? :-) Our resident pessimist. Unfortunately, you are often correct. Even so, I'm going to stay optimistic. I can't help it.

[Q]

83. Resident pessimist?

- How about resident Paul Revere? Many say that we shouldn't dwell on the past...that we should 'move on' and look only to the future. But the past teaches us certain lessons that can guide our future. The one lesson that we can't seem to learn is that appeasing tyrants and despots will only encourage them to do more harm.

- And then there's the matter of the rule of law and justice. We live in a country where citizens go to prison for making BONGS...but the so-called leader of this country can lie us into a war and still be called a great leader by at least half the country.

[FlaGranny]

91. Not trying to

insult you or anything - :-) I seem to recall a few months ago I accused you of being a pessimist, and you agreed that your wife called you one too. If I'm mistaken and it was someone else, I'm sorry. Was just trying to lighten things up. That just proves I'm an optimist, I guess. ;-)

[Q]

93. Nah...that was me.

- Don't get me wrong...my wife agrees with me...she's just burnt out on Bush* getting away with murder.

- No offense taken. I fully realize my 'message' isn't very popular.

[FlaGranny]

96. Maybe the message is not popular, but often right on the mark!

I'm an optimist, but also a realist. I wish you were wrong more often.

[Brewman_Jax]

89. You're right again

Bush* is hardly down and out. A friend of mine with freeper tendancies is ready to vote for Bush* again. Not because he likes Bush*, because he doesn't think that any of the democrats could beat him.

The RW spin machine has gone into overdrive to blame Clinton in the light of Clarke's book and the 9-11 commission.

No more moderate for me. I said out loud that I was/am a liberal. I'm not interested in converting anyone. I'm through banging my head.

If they're that blind and lead to vote for someone who screws them over time and again, then they're probably beyond my ability to help them. :shrug:

[RobinA]

92. I'm Sorry,

but I think blame on the media and the DNC are misplaced this time around. The media has not been doing its job, granted. Much of it seems to bend over backwards to avoid the truth about BushCo. But Clarke's words are all over the media. His position at the WH is out there. O'Neill's words were all over the media. Yellowcake was all over the media. No WMD is all over the media. No connection between Iraq and al-Quaida is all over the media. This goes way beyond intermediaries like The Media and the DNC.

If Joe Voter refuses to add two and two and get four when the equation is starring him in the face, when people are reciting "two plus two equals four" in his face, you can't blame Rush, the DNC or electronic voting machines. There needs to be a serious look at what is going on with the voter.

[Q]

94. Don't let the media off the hook...

...and it's about more than them simply not doing their jobs. The corporate media is actually protecting Bush* from harm...while propping him up and creating an image of a great leader.

- Democrats end up fighting both the Bushies and the mainstream media. That the media won't tell the whole truth makes Democrats look 'partisan' when they bring up Bush* corruption.

- The People can't vote with 'informed consent' if they're fed constant lies by their government and the American media.

- There are three distinct problems: corrupt Bush* government. Corporate state media. Weak-kneed Democrats.

[RobinA]

99. I Agree They've Protected Bush

but I think the situation is beyond that being the major problem. If I wake up in the morning and rain is gushing down, thunder is crashing, and somebody tells me, the sun is out, and I say, yeah, the sun is out, and go walking outside in shorts and a t-shirt, whose fault is it if I get wet? At some point the writing is on the wall and no amount of saying "Don't look, that isn't really writing," excuses the looker from not reading what's on the wall.

I think we've reached that point, and I think the problem is much deeper than the media.

[tom_paine]

95. By the way...excellent post, Q!

[Bandit]

97. Well I know one thing if the Bush* Cabal wins in 2004 I'll never vote

Democratic again. We all know that this is the most corrupt administration in the history of the United States and if that doesn't become The Issue then we're sunk anyway. I'll become a third party voter forever more.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

98. Q "The Great Unraveling" by Krugman paints the TRUE evil picture bushco

agenda and you are 100% CORRECT!....AND i AM FUCKING SCARED SHITLESS...THESE BASTARDS WILL DO **WHATEVER** (ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING) TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDA...PLEASE EVERYONE READ THIS BOOK? just reading from page 5 - 9 explains how it is possible "A Revolutionary Power" Krugman talks about a very young kissinger's doctoral dissertation "a world restored" Krugman said, "the first 3 pages of kissingers book send chills down his spine... Kissinger describes the problems confronting a heretofore stable diplomatic system(democracy) when it is faced with a "revolutionary power"(neocons, heritage foundation, bush*) a power thaz does not accept that systems legitmacy.(social democracy, FDR) :scared: ...It seems clear to me that one should regard America's rightwing movement - which now ineffect controls the adminstration, both houses of congress, and a good slice of the media - as a "revolutionary power" in kissinger's sense. That is, it is a movement whose leaders do NOT accept the legitimacy of our current political system (democracy).

Am I overstating the case? In fact, there's ample evidence that key elements of the coalition that now runs the country believe that some long-established American politicaland social institutions should NOT in principle, exist - and do NOT accept the rules that the rest of us have taken for granted.

Consider, for example the welfare stateas we know it - New Deal programs like Social Security and unemployeement insurance, Great Society programs like Medicare. If you read the literature emanating from the Heritage Foundation, which drives the Bush administration's economic idealogy, you discover a very radical agenda: Heritage doesn't just want to scale back New Deal and Great Society programs, it regards the very existance of those programs as a violation of basic principles."

then Krugman goes on to explain Heritage's idealogy on foriegn policies :scared:

everyone MUST read this book!


...THIS 911 INVESTIGATION IS A FUCKING SNOW JOB

[Q]

103. RWingers have been trying for decades to get exactly this...

...combination of events into place. Newt Gingrich used to promise this type of revolution for the Right if they could once and for all control all the houses of government and a majority of the media. Gingrich was another one of the extremist RWingers who advised using any and all means to achieve this goal.

- But...the fascist Bush* government isn't as scary as the millions of Americans willing to give the Bush* gang the benefit of doubt on so many issues and scandals.

[Suspicious]

101. Thank you.

The People are on their own.

Isn't that the truth.

[psychopomp]

108. "The People"

are divided.

[Snivi Yllom]

102. the 9/11 commission obviously will have no effect on *s standing

I have been listening for 2 days and I have heard nothing earth shattering.

[Q]

104. It was obvious from the beginning...

...when Bush* & Company was allowed to lay out the terms for the 'investigation'. How silly is it that those being investigated called all the shots? They chose who was on the commission...the timeframe and the parameters. Only certain members of the commission were allowed to 'look' at the most damaging evidence and not even allowed to make copies of it to show to the rest of the investigators.

- How do you know when you live in a banana repubic? When the 'head of state' is above reproach and beyond the rule of law.

[paulk]

106. While I agree it's important to remain level headed

I don't see the purpose of your constant pessimism, other than as an excuse to once again bash the Democratic party.

Unless you present a viable alternative, one that can actually exercise political power, you're just pissing in the wind.