Nazis and Neocons

[adjwilli]

I was just talking to my friend on the phone about the Israel, Iraq and the War on Terror, and we had to ask ourselves an interesting question:

If the Nazis never committed genocide, how would they have gone down in history?

Napoleon had similar aspirations of controlling Europe, but never had the strict laws within his own country for the most part, nor did he commit genocide. Or would they have been more like the Ottoman Empire in Eurasia? Hitler had a very meticulous plan for an sci-fi-like future of Germany, does that make a difference?

The neocons - or whatever you wish to call the current movement Bush is involved with - today are bent on US primacy, which could sort of be considered the unified Europe of today, so far as how high a nation-state will set its goals. They have a well defined vision of the future e.g. technological mass market consumption.

How do you think they will go down in history? More like Napoleon, Rome, Nazi Germany, the Ottoman Empire? Is Bush the modern Caesar? Will future generations' languages call their leader Buch, or Busch, or Vush - like the Tsar or Czar in Russian? Is Al Gore Pompeii?

[whistle]

1. Yep, neo-con and Nazis could definitely be bedfellows...

...as the actions of Bush patriarch, Prescott Bush has shown. The walnuts don't fall far from the tree. And of course we know that republican true believers along with Christian fundamentalists right wingers will always walk in lock-step with the likes of Dubya and his privilege class fascist ideals and values. :puke:

[yardwork]

2. I used to think that this characterization was going too far, but now

I wonder. Have you been over to Free Republic lately? Those people are hateful - I mean hateful. It really makes me wonder....

[ronatchig]

3. Think more Mussolini

Corporate fascists is what they is. And I can only hope the whole crowd goes down in history as inmates in Levenworth.

[kaitykaity]

4. Both have delusions of their own infallibility.

They can do anything they want, they are above consequences for
their actions. I see that as the fatal flaw, and I thank the
Heavens for it.

[unblock]

5. apparently gays can't work for the government anymore

there was an earlier thread saying that the shrub administration has decided that firing federal employees for reason of being gay is just fine.

remember that preventing jews from working was one of the earlier nazi actions. if gays can be fired from the government simply for being gay, how long is it before private employers demand the same 'right' to fire gays just for being gay. oh wait, in most states they have that already. and then how long before you have to swear you're not gay and spy on your neighbor?


people don't see the similarities because the compare it to 1945 naziism instead of 1933-36 naziism. people are thrown because bush has no mustache and no stiff arm salute. people are thrown because they allied themselves with some like-minded jews.

if they treated jews the way they treat gays, some might start to see the similarities.

neocons aren't "conservative" (they're activist, do NOT believe in preserving the status quo, and so on) and they have similarities in political philosophy, agenda, and propaganda techniques to the nazis.


what they are is simple: stealth neo-nazis.

[Yemp4734]

12. "if they treated jews the way"

EXACTLY! Even FAUX news would be slinging the term Nazi and it would be widely agreed on. Can you imagine if the headline read "Bush admin decides Jews can be fired from gov positions"? All hell would break lose, and there would more than likely be articles of impeachment in the house before long. But because it is gays it's ok.

[lucidmadman]

6. Check out Leo Strauss...

...the Neo-Con philosopher...

http://home.earthlink.net/~karljahn/Strauss.htm

[adjwilli]

8. yeah, I know Leo Strauss was Jewish.

The nature of the question was more about how the current movement (if you want to call it neocon) will go down in history.

[lucidmadman]

9. Strauss being Jewish was NOT my point....

...the anti democratic, anti enlightenment stance is. Strauss is a 'hero' to the neo-cons.

[blurp]

11. Leo Strauss was also an atheist

Strange, but true.

[seventhson]

7. The Bushes ARE Nazis. THEY financed the Nazis - profitted from Holocaust

The historical continuity of the Third Reich sociopolitically IS the Bushes (along with the Rockefellers, Morgans, Dulles and Harrimans)

The Bush fortune was made from the death camps and slave labor as well as the manufacture of weapons for the Nazi war machine and stormtroopers.

Hitler was essentially a Bush family creation.

They were his American patrons and mentors.

Ther Nazi gold made it to the pockets of Dubya and his Daddy.

That is simply history.

The Nazis did not lose WWII. They just moved their assets to a swiss bank run by a handful of elitists from wall street who now run our country.

[Andy_Stephenson]

10. and operation paperclip

brought the NAZIs here.

[LoneStarLiberal]

13. Will It Come Down To The Streets?

It's an interesting parallel, with one piece that you left out that I think is crucial to understanding how much of a threat to liberty and peace these jackals are: They are true believers.

The heart of the modern conservative movement (because, let's face it, it's not just the neocons; two whole generations of conservatives have dropped to their knees in deference to anyone or any group who will lead them to political victory) is driven by "reformed" leftists like Poderhertz, Buckley, and Kristol who took their revolutionary intolerance and jumped to the other side of the ideological see-saw for various reasons. They are allied with the bigots we know as the Christian Right or, what I think is more appropriate, the social conservatives.

Many of the Nazi leadership were rejected by mainstream society in some way, shape, or form. Hitler, Hess, Himmler, and Goring all had some notable rejection by society in their histories, rejections that probably played some significant role in their later choices in life, though we cannot be certain.

What we can be certain of is that much like the revisionist histories taught in post war Germany and Japan, the American history books will reflect a different story of these four years than those of the rest of the world.

All the Nazi/fascist/crook rhetoric aside, what we need to remember the most about the current administration and their conservative foundation-pimped punditocracy is that they know only one set of rules: Winning as a morality all its own. The founding generation of contemporary conservatism learned that during their days as leftists and they now exercise it with impunity and increasing desperation.

When they smear Kerry, we need to assault them on their dirty little secrets.

When they assault science, we need to eviscerate their fairy tale beliefs.

When they try to steal another election, we need to take to the streets.

Hopefully the margin of victory for Kerry will be such that no amount of Diebold fraud and Bush family inbred politicking will save their sorry President from a richly deserved loss, but the only way we can be certain that they won't try another judicial end-run is if we are ready to show them this country belongs to American citizens and not their duck hunting buddies on the Supreme Court...and the only way we do that is to be ready and willing to go to the streets.

No one stood up to the Nazis until it was too late (i.e the White Rose), then the entire country got collective amnesia for a generation or two. Unless we want to find out if the Bush administration have even more sinister, criminal designs, we had best be ready to show them in the streets that there will be no Republican Party rallies, Nuremburg-style.

Not in America.