Did you know outsourcing overseas is because of crappy schools?

[Snow]

Truth! Check this article in Wired:
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,62780,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3

-snip-
A desire for cheap labor is not the primary reason technology companies are turning to offshore workers, according to a new report by the American Electronics Association, the United States' largest high-tech trade association.
The American school system, which AeA researchers charge is failing to provide strong science and math education to students, is largely to blame for lost jobs, according to the AeA's report, "Offshore Outsourcing in an Increasingly Competitive and Rapidly Changing World.-snip-

Furthermore, it doesn't really hurt the US worker:

-snip-
But AeA researchers also state in the report that the effects of offshore outsourcing on technology workers have been exaggerated, and that no hard numbers are being gathered by government or independent entities that cite exactly how many jobs have actually been lost to outsourcing over the past few years.
-snip-

The lead researcher demonstrates the lack of bias in his report:

-snip-
Kazmierczak acknowledged that AeA members are all business owners, not employees, but says this had no effect on the report's findings.
"Yes, we do represent the interests of businesses," said Kazmierczak. "However, we believe our report is a fair and balanced look at the entire scope and context of the offshore-outsourcing issue.
-snip-

Something else, eh? Wired fortunately goes on to present some other sides, although I suspect to a certain degree they're simply letting these people's stupidity speak for itself.

[Love Bug]

1. Customer service jobs don't require a high level science/math education

A lot of the jobs going to India are customer service jobs. Manufacturing jobs, too, so even though our educational system hasn't kept up, that's not the only reason for outsourcing. GREED is the main reason for outsourcing.

[Virginian]

2. It's also an approved form of sexual, racial and age discrimination.

Most of the H-1b programmers are Indian, Male, and twentysomething.
When our jobs go to India, the higher paying jobs go to males.

Maybe the outsourcing should be distributed equally over different continents.

[BiggJawn]

3. We CAN'T teach "strong science" anymore.

Because when you do, you get a hoard of villagers at the school board meeting screaming about how they're "being persecuted" because they heard <not having children of their own in the system> that the kids are being taught Evolution, and that the Earth is round, not flat, and this curriculum "Goes agin' GAWD!!!".

Then they want "Creation Science" taught, and books banned from the library, and abstinence taught instead of sexual hygiene...

And school administrators, under pressure from lawmakers (who also push for Fundy bullshit in the schools) to "raise them scores" so they spend all the available time teaching the kids how to pass that damn State Achievment Test...

My Grandfather learned to play the violin and work wood and metal in High School. My dad learned electricity, electronics, and plumbing. this was in ADDITION to a college-prep curriculum! I have dad's notebooks. His High School course of study would tax the brains of most 2nd year EE students today.

Gotta "teach the TEST", though......

And don't EVEN put a copy of "The Demon-Haunted World" in the libraray!

[texastoast]

13. I bet your grandpa . . .

Wasn't allowed to watch television 19.4 hours per week, which is the average number of hours an American kid 2-17 years old gets to watch it.

I worked with a Vietnam immigrant. He alleged the reason we are so far behind is because Vietnamese children work on studies 12 hours a day. My friend's family did not have a television. He immigrated to this country as a child, had to learn English, and topped his class when he graduated from high school here, saying our schools are much easier than Vietnamese schools.

TV, combined with the teachers' burden of having to teach passing skills from a "academic knowledge and skills" test and the stupid fundies' meddlesome idiocy in school curriculae, underpin the U.S.'s low ratings for subject knowledge among developed nations.

[BiggJawn]

14. No TV in my house.

Well, yes, there WAS TV, but it was not cable, since I'm a cheap bastard who realized that my daughter would sit in front of the damn thing 8 hours a day no matter how much I told her to shut it off.

Wasn't any fun watching it when we moved north and she had only ONE channel to watch...

She's no Rhodes Scholar, but she's not the dullest crayon in the box by a long shot, either.

Tee-Vee BAD! Kill brain cells!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. BULLSHIT!!! AND THIS IS THE LIES & TALKING POINTS OF THE HERTIAGE FOUNDAT

ION!....it is part of their plan to make you believe this so that they can forward their neocon agenda...WAKE-UP SHEEPLE!

[redqueen]

12. No kidding

We have HOW MANY out of work SEASONED programmers?

Pull the other one, lying liars.

[QC]

5. Ironic that big business has taken the lead in killing school funding.

That's been the story in Alabama for years. Timber, big farming, mining and paper own the state, and they pay $1.25 per acre per year in property taxes and use their considerable lobbying power against any attempt to raise money for schools. Then they bitch about the lousy schools.

Let's get real here: we have very skilled tech people working at WalMart and Home Depot. There is not a shortage of trained tech people in this country--there is a shortage of trained tech people who can live on third world wages in this country.

[Peter1x9]

6. Not only that...

But the big tech corporations are setting up high tech training centers in foreign countries. In the long run it's far cheaper for them to provide top-of-the-line training in exchange for pitiful wages when the students graduate and go to work. And it gives the impression that foreign schools are better than American schools, so the corporations can come back and say that our schools are lousy.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/566365.cms

Here's the third and fourth paragraph:

"The report talks of the state-of-the-art labs funded by IBM, Microsoft , Sun Microsystems, Motorola, Oracle, Intel and other US technology firms, in the Peking University's School of Software campus, just an hour's drive from Beijing. The university is one 35 varsities running the programme.

The software school works closely with Chinese and foreign corporations, basing its curriculum on industry needs."

And the tenth paragraph:

" "A lot of my classmates have gone to many big companies such as Intel, Microsoft, IBM and Motorola for their internships," she said."

[Snow]

10. Wow1 That's amazing.

skip on taxes & job-train kids thousands of miles away. My second impulse (after being pissed) is to think, well, at least they're education some kids somewhere that needs it - but they're not really educating at all, they're job-training.

[enki23]

7. they actually said "fair and balanced"

is that becoming a rightwinger code phrase or something?

[Snow]

9. Nice catch - I believe you're right. - eom-

[Beacho]

8. Time to 'outsource' these companies

and let them sell to the markets that have the labor pools they wish to exploit.

Doing business in this country is a priviledge, not a right.

Let the countries that have their workers pay for their infrastructure, protection, and legal system.

Believe me, we'll be better off without them. If we need their products here, then we'll make them. Nature abhors a vacuum.

[blurp]

11. I worked in an IT startup. The article is correct.

I worked with a recent high school graduate at a startup. His job was to do some OS admin type stuff and C programming.

He was asked to write a function to compute the distance between two points. He came back and told me he didn't know how, so I wrote the formula down for him. He then came back and asked "what does that mean" as he pointed to the square root symbol.

I asked if he even had a high school diploma.

He said "of course!"

Now, how can IT companies be expected to hire Americans when those Americans can't even do basic math?

[Snow]

15. You may be overgeneralizing, but supposing you're not....

you may have noticed posters above commenting on how these companies are shirking their civic duty with regards to taxes. Would you agree that raising the level of support to local schools is a more appropriate response to the situation?

[Beacho]

16. And where is that start up now?

Why was a high schooler even there? Because we had full employment.


Now what does that have to do with today?

At least that high schooler could be understood over the phone and wasn't selling your compiling software on the black market

[w4rma]

17. IT companies should be expected to hire *college* graduates for that type

of work. College is where folks learn a specialization.

[Beacho]

18. Why?

Of the professionals I've worked with in networking some of the most competent don't have degrees.

A college degree is a guarentor of one thing, you can do the work to get a college degree.

[ramapo]

22. Why was he hired?

Sounds like crap.

It is very unusual that somebody with only a HS diploma is hired as an OS admin or programmer is hired unless they have compensatory experience.

There are thousands of college grads who are looking for that entry-level job to get started in the IT field not to mention the many out-of-work ITers with plenty of experience.

[camero]

19. Blame shifting

That's all this is. First it was because of wage savings. Next was because of the cost of health benefits. Now they say it's the educational system, which has the screwiest form of funding I have ever seen.

They want to bitch about education and destroy public education but they don't want to equalize the funding between rich and poor districts. Our educational system is too reliant on property taxes for funding so the wealthier districts have better educators than the poorer districts. It's that way by design and it's not right.

Just another case of misdirection from the right wing.

[Beacho]

20. yep

eggzackly

[KamaAina]

21. Actually, it's because of some very good schools

Andover, Yale, and Harvard B-school, all of which gave Bush* a free pass which eventually allowed him to get in a position where he could get himself appointed pResident and proceed to destroy our economy brick by brick.

[ACK]

23. People always talk in extreme and singular causes

I remember someone CSPAN mentioning that emphasis on science and math is needed to produce citizens who are so vastly productive that despite higher wages/benefits it still makes more financial sense to do the work at home.

Of course, that person had a job.

It is only one part of the puzzle.

We need to as a country improve the state of education especially in the hard sciences.

We need to make accountability something more than a code word for more tests and punishing teachers in lower economic neighborhoods.

We do not need more unfunded mandates. We have to put our money where our mouth is and back up the bull with bucks. Teachers need a real living wage. In my area of the country Northern VA single teachers have to live in West Virginia to afford the cost of living.

It is time to stop trying to blame the teacher unions and stop demonizing school and other organizations founded to improve the lives of teachers and the school systems.

That is one part.

The other part is that we need to take a carrot and stick approach with businesses.

Companies that promote policies that clearily create jobs in the USA should be rewarded with the tax benefits.

Companies that provide re-training and programs for promoting real job creation here at home should reap some real benefits and should be publically pointed out as good corporate citizens.

However, companies that ship jobs overseas should be punished through the tax code harshly and they should be made examples of publically in media events across the country.

All loopholes in the tax law that currrently rewards companies for doing business overseas (ie shipping jobs overseas) should be taken out NOW!

That is my take anyway.

[Beacho]

24. A little comic relief

to a contentious subject

http://www.exile.ru/185/outsourcing_thomas_friedman.html