Carter: Nader needs to go back to inspecting the rear ends of cars.

[Robin Hood]

LMAO. Bwahahahahahaha!!!

[bluestateguy]

1. Jimmy Carter?

By the way, may father had a Corvair once, and he never had any safety issues with it. That book of his was a sham.

[Robin Hood]

2. I believe that Ralph is a sham artist.

He is proving that now more than ever. He is also proving P.T. Barnum right as well.

[tinanator]

7. dont be ridiculous!

How ignorant can you be about vehicle safety issues? Nader built a better Corvair, and the safety regulations that were implemented in the 60's are a tribute to his efforts. Now, mind you, most of my 20 cars predate the majority of significant safety improvements, but they were extremely important steps that needed to be taken. The dark years of the 70's were a result of insurance company demands to protect themselves, rather than consumers, and regulations derailed the natural design evolution of american automobiles completely. Nevertheless, your statement is ludicrous when you look at the repeated vicious acts of neglect by FoMoCo in the Pinto's safety hazards, the Ford Explorer and the blame shifting towards Firestone. These bastards are pure greedy evil who will kill you for 80 cents, and your cultivated hatred of Nader is such an ungrateful joke anyway. What pawns.

[Robin Hood]

8. Yeah, Ralph is the second coming of jesus.

He has come to save our collected souls. Though I am not a true believer. Is Ralph the bastard responsible for my car annoying me with those infernal bling bling noises until I put on my seat belt? Jesus Ralph we are not children, and we surely aren't your children.

[tinanator]

9. how post-Reagan/Bush liberal of you

yeah those companies would have looked out for the consumer interests without Nader's efforts. You must be quite satisfied with modern government? Free Market Liberal? I think I just coined that. How do you make the little r with a circle? I want whats mine!

[Zero Gravitas]

12. well he should go back to

doing something useful instead of helping Bush* get "re"-elected.

If Bush wins again because of Nader, then Nader's legacy will amount to 8 years of direct Corporate Government of the USA. All the good that he ever did would be undone (and then some) by Bush and his fascist cronies. That's what Nader will be remembered for: George W. Bush.

[tinanator]

13. and so you forget and forgive

the Democrats who voted Bush? Numbers dont lie.

[Zero Gravitas]

14. same thing

a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. And no I won't forgive anyone who voted Bush/Nader.

[tinanator]

15. but who made the real difference in FL?

Dont you think the actual facts matter there? Hate em all if you like, but dont pretend you are going to affect positive change that way.

[Zero Gravitas]

17. 90,000 Nader voters

LOL a Naderite talking about "positive change"! good one. How will four more years of bush be a "positive change" ? I hope you're young enough to be drafted...

[tinanator]

21. thanks for the sentiments

as evil as they are. So how many Democrats voted Bush? Youre sharp enough to have that figure in hand, right?
sorry about the amputation, but you didnt have legs to stand on anyway. Maybe you'll learn something though? If not, YOU can always sign up.

[Zero Gravitas]

23. sign up for what?

[tinanator]

27. the service you hope im young enough to be drafted into

@@@^$@^$@#@!*(aZ*

[Zero Gravitas]

28. why would I want to do that?

I opposed the war in iraq and intend do whatever I can to get Bush out of office by voting for and donating money to (like it or not) the only candidate who can beat Bush in November.

[tinanator]

44. the only candidate who can lose it to a complete moron

because he offers little if any opposition, rhetorically or legislatively. You cannot simultaneously oppose the war and wish me into a draft, which, likelier than not, you are young enough to be eligible for. Pro-war is pro-war. sorry to bring logic into this.
Blind faith is hardly analytical or strategically sane.

[tedoll78]

45. You really believe that?

I'll bring a bit of logic to this also.

What exactly does a vote for Nader accomplish? You vote for Nader, Nader ends-up with fewer votes than he got last time, and Bush gets back into the White House by a hair.

So, at the end of this, what will you have accomplished for the Progressive cause? What exactly can you point to in terms of real progress towards a political goal?

[tinanator]

47. you might indulge in a bit of history as well

which is rife with the defeats of republican light wanna be's like Kathleen Brown here in California. But no, all we hear around here is how Dukakis and Mondale were the liberal undoing of a just and righteous centrist Democratic Party. I can make no case for voting for Nader, and it is easily the biggest red herring imaginable this election, but you had better acknowledge the fact that Kerry is losing votes through his cooperation with the Bush regime and statements against Chavez. That one pretty much killed it for me. You might as well ask me to vote for further coup attempts here and abroad, or a few more daisy cutters on little brown people.

[adriennel]

22. ugg, not this again!

a vote for BUSH is a vote for Bush and a vote for Nader is a vote for Nader! third party voting is still a valid part of the democratic process even though the Dems want to discourage it. and the Dems won't win over many independents with the "vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" attitude. in fact, this is the reason why many people vote for third parties in the first place.

[Sparkly]

24. The effect is the same

Any anti-Bush vote that does not go to the one person with snowball's chance in Hell of defeating him has the effect of helping him.

The house is on fire, there's ONE guy here who can put out the fire, and people are complaining that his hose is the wrong color.

[adriennel]

25. consider the goal

hey, I didn't criticize the "candidate" and I plan on voting for him. But I have a good friend who threatens to vote for Bush because of some of Kerry's views. I don't understand this decision AT ALL; it distresses me greatly as I try to think of a way to convince him not to vote for Bush. I just know that threats won't work in this case. The argument "a vote for Nader is a vote from Bush" will only further distance him from the Democratic party, and I don't think this is the intended goal.

[Sparkly]

26. I'm confused

Who would say "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" to someone considering voting for Bush in an effort to get them to vote for Kerry?

[mouse7]

30. Your friend is selfish and in denial

I don't care whether your friend doesn't like the truth. It's the truth.

Voting for anyone other than a Dem is helping send a reThug to DC.

[rdfi-defi]

34. the house is on fire, soon it will spread to the whole town

if we choose the yellow hose, (which has a narrow diameter and is easy to pick up), the fire can be stalled ever so slightly. there will be a very short period of time in which the townspeople can salvage their belongings and perhaps fortify their homes against the fire before it spreads uncontrollably through the town.

if we choose the orange hose, (which has a wide diameter and is tough to pick up), the fire can be put down and almost eliminated. since the orange hose takes more people to operate, less people can run home to save their belongings, but less homes will be destroyed if the orange hose can be put into use. with only a few hot embers left at the sight of the original fire, the townspeople can assess the cause of the fire and take measures to see that it does not happen again.

both hoses take more than "one guy" to operate. perhaps with cooperation the townspeople can operate both hoses at the same time for maximum efficiency.

the house is on fire and the benefits of both hoses will be needed to save the town.

[Sparkly]

35. Huh?

There IS no Nader hose -- Nader CANNOT win against Bush, period. End of story. You may not like that reality, but that is reality.

There is only ONE candidate who can win against Bush. If you want Bush out, vote for Kerry. If you don't care whether Bush gets four more years, vote for Nader, or don't vote at all.

[rdfi-defi]

40. the house is on fire

[mouse7]

29. Yes this again... because you are flat wrong

A vote for anyone other than a Dem is a vote to send a reThug to DC.

The only formula that will work to move the progressive cause forward is to do the legwork that moves the Democratic Party to the left. That means getting all you progressives who bitch and moan so much to get diciplined and start showing up at your local Dem Party committee meetings.

The Green Party and Nader is a simply people who too lazy to do any work, but still want to be chiefs. They would rather be chiefs in a marginalized failure than indians in a successful progressive takeover of the Dem party apparatus.

[LandOLincoln]

36. "Cultivated hatred of Nader??!!"

I've hated that grandstanding, hypocritical crypto-Con for 35 years, and my loathing was "cultivated" by no one but Nader himself (aided by the stories of a couple of very disillusioned ex-Raiders).

[absyntheNsugar]

42. Nader went after the deepest pockets

VW had a much more dangerous car in the Bug, yet he didn't go after them.

[Skidmore]

3. Yeah, that was pretty good...

because it was so unexpected.

[Robin Hood]

4. I think that was the harshest thing that Carter has ever said.

It was un expected.

[GregW]

5. Ralph should inspect the rear end of my ass

"Unsafe after any meal"

[Robin Hood]

6. LMAO!!

I guess that was basically what Carter was saying.

[maggrwaggr]

10. that ain't gonna happen. So what Kerry had better do:

is listen to the concerns of the people who support Nader.

Kerry seems to be pandering to corporations rather than the people. This bothers not only me, but a lot of others.

There's a reason Nader's there, and it's not just Nader.

Check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x445078

[DennisReveni]

11. Screw Carter

Ask Jimmy about Indonesia.
His watch and all.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=2463
While the award was primarily for Carter¹s work since leaving the White House, it might be instructive to examine his record while serving as “leader of the free world.”

Jimmy Carter was a president who claimed that human rights was “the soul of our foreign policy” despite making an agreement with Baby Doc Duvalier to not accept the asylum claims of Haitian refugees. His duplicity, however, was not limited to our hemisphere; Carter also earned his Nobel Prize in Southeast Asia.

In Cambodia, Jimmy Carter and his national security aide, Zbigniew Brzezinski made an “untiring effort to find peaceful solutions” by initiating a joint U.S.-Thai operation in 1979 known as Task Force 80 which, for ten years, propped up the notorious Khmer Rouge under the all-purpose banner of anti-Communism. “Small wonder present U.S.-originating stories about the Khmer Rouge end abruptly in 1979,” says journalist Alexander Cockburn. Interestingly, just two years earlier, Carter displayed his “respect for human rights” when he explained how the US owed no debt to Vietnam. He justified this belief because the “destruction was mutual.” It¹s odd that I have no recollections of my city being napalmed or babies born deformed on my block due to Agent Orange. Carter¹s statement, as Noam Chomsky has commented, “is easily worthy of Hitler or Stalin, yet it aroused no comment.”

Moving further southward “to advance democracy and human rights,” we have East Timor. This former Portuguese colony was the target of a relentless and murderous assault by Indonesia since December 7, 1975‹an assault made possible through the sale of U.S. arms to its loyal client-state, the silent complicity of the American press, and then-Ambassador Daniel Patrick Moynihan¹s skill at keeping the United Nations uninvolved. Upon relieving Gerald Ford (but strategically retaining the skills of fellow Nobel peacenik Henry Kissinger), Carter authorized increased military aid to Indonesia in 1977 as the death toll approached 100,000. In short order, over one-third of the East Timorese population (more than 200,000 humans) lost their lives due to war-related starvation, disease, massacres, or atrocities.

Closer to home, Carter also made his mark in Central America. As journalist William Blum details, in 1978, the future Nobel Peace Prize winner attempted to create a “moderate” alternative to the Sandinistas through covert CIA support for “the press and labor unions in Nicaragua.” After the Sandinistas took power, Blum explains, “Carter authorized the CIA to provide financial and other support to opponents.” Also in that region, one of Carter¹s final acts as president was to order $10 million in military aid and advisors to El Salvador‹perhaps “to promote economic and social development.”

A final glimpse of “international co-operation based on international law” during the Carter Administration brings us to Afghanistan, site of a Soviet invasion in December 1979. It was here that Carter and Brzezinski aligned themselves with staunch anti-Communists in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to exploit Islam as a method to arouse the Afghani populace to action. With the CIA coordinating the effort, some $40 billion in US taxpayer dollars were used to recruit “freedom fighters” like Osama bin Laden. The rest, as they say, is history."

[Sparkly]

16. Was that to shoot the messenger?

Or just to change the subject?

[rdfi-defi]

good post

i do not care if it is slightly off topic. unworthy heros deserved to get fact-slapped

edit: reply to 11

[Sparkly]

20. fact-slapped?

So, is the GOP correct to respond to Clarke and O'Neil by maligning them on unrelated issues?

[ieoeja]

32. Or slapped with lies if the facts don't work.

See post #31.

[ieoeja]

31. LMAO

“Small wonder present U.S.-originating stories about the Khmer Rouge end abruptly in 1979,” says journalist Alexander Cockburn.


The Khmer Rough was thrown out of power on January 7, 1979. I would suggest to Alexander Cockburn that U.S.-originating stories end abruptly in 1979 because the Khmer Rough ended abruptly in 1979.

[rdfi-defi]

18. boy the dem machinery must be getting worried

about the demise of the party. i thought the dems are "more united than ever." why so defensive carter?

[Sparkly]

19. Maybe because

the stakes are higher than ever, and it looks like we'll be outspent 10-to-1, and we need every anti-Bush vote possible?

Maybe Carter sees the issues he worked for, as president and as past-president, going down the tubes under this adminstration?

Just a few guesses.

[Woodstock]

33. link link link link link

Please if you are going to start a thread with something like this, post a link.

[legin]

37. Pretty much a load of empty wind really

What is going to be happening to Zell Miller who at the moment is organising 'Democrats for bush*' ? Will he still be a Democratic super-delagate at the up and coming convention. Have the Democratic Party got the balls to do what really needs doing or is it a case of pretending to be tough by slagging off an easy target like Nader ?

[Sparkly]

38. Zell Miller's idiocy is no excuse for Nader's

Miller's not helping, either, obviously -- but what's that got to do with Nader running?

Miller's no Democrat, but what's that got to do with the fact that Nader isn't a Democrat?

[legin]

41. You got someone in your own party

campaigning for the opposing party.

If you haven't got what it takes to do something about that, then I think it is a bit rich to complain about Nader.

[legin]

39. And it is totally socially and politically dysfunctional too

You have a chunk of voters that are hovering in the gap between the Democratic Party and Nader, and if you think this is the way to win them to your side then maybe you might want to consider recruiting Arial Sharon into the Democratic Party because it would make a nice fit.

[yellowcanine]

43. I never thought of Jimmy as being very funny but

That's pretty funny.

[redqueen]

46. Nice

A member of the two-headed beast ruining this country (the demopublicans) trashing someone who despite his ruinous effects on the system is ignored at our own peril.