What are the consequences if this bill becomes law? (Fetal injury)

[BurtWorm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/26/politics/26VICT.html?hp


Senate Outlaws Injury to Fetus During a Crime
By CARL HULSE

Published: March 26, 2004


WASHINGTON, March 25 — The Senate approved legislation on Thursday making it a separate offense to harm the fetus in a federal crime committed against a pregnant woman, sending the measure to President Bush for his signature.

Opponents denounced the bill, adopted on a vote of 61 to 38, as an effort to undermine the constitutional right to abortion by recognizing the fetus as a person.

The House passed the measure on Feb. 26, 254 to 163....

[ewagner]

1. My fear is

that it will set the standard of "where life begins". And therefore define life begining at conception, therefore all abortion = murder.

I think that's twhat the RTL people have been trying to do for some time now.

[Narf]

2. Sounds to me like you hit the nail on the head.

[Caution]

3. Exactly

This is of course the goal behind this bill.

[Az]

4. It will have no impact

The religious right will not use it to leverage their position onto Roe V Wade. They have no intention of misleading the public in that way. They are completely honest and respectable.



yeah right

[BurtWorm]

6. Lindsey Graham says...

"It's not about abortion," said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and an advocate for the bill in his previous years in the House. "It is about criminals who attack pregnant women."

;)

[BurtWorm]

5. Kerry voted against it!

:thumbsup:

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, voted against the measure and was criticized by family members of crime victims on hand for the debate.


But a lot of Democrats must have voted for it. It got 61 votes. Which Democrats, besides the obvious suspect, voted for it?

:thumbsdown:

[blackcat77]

7. That other case...

...about the lady who refused the c-sec worries me as well. It means that women are slaves to the fetuses they carry and the govt can dictate their actions under penalty of law.

[kiahzero]

8. Yet you'll find knuckledraggers everywhere that support that state action

It's surprising just how many people believe that women are incubators.

[orwell]

9. Missing

There is a conundrum here.

How can the fetus be a considered a separate entity in the case of physical harm to the mother and fetus as it is in this bill and yet the doctor who performs an abortion would not be charged with murder. Doesn't this seem like two different legal standards?

I don't understand how this bill can be legal in the face of Roe v Wade. Maybe I am missing something.

O

[BurtWorm]

10. They don't care if it's constitutional or not.

If Bush signs it, it's legal. They're dying to get a test case. I'll bet a nice one involving terrorism would be made to order.

[Malva Zebrina]

11. Anything can now be held against a woman who is pregnant

forget to take vitamin pill? have a miscarriage? prosecute. missed doctor appointment--have a miscarriage? Prosecute

Went horseback riding--have a miscarriage? prosecute

virtually anything can be used and held against her as proof that she killed another human being--ie the embryo or the fetus.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. The eventual appeal the Supremes should be interesting. Suppose

you're convicted of a federal crime (felony), e.g., robbery, burglary, larceny, kidnapping, homicide of a pregnant woman. You will be punished for an extra victim because your primary victim was not male or a woman who wasn't pregnant. If the host dies, there's a probability that the fetus will consequently succumb in utero.

The Supremes would have to decide whether or not life commences at conception. This law would not have limitations toward zygotes (a few divided cells), an embryo, and a fetus.

And if they decided that life at any stage was protected under federal law, what about intent vs. negligence?

Would the Supremes distinguish between an involuntary death and deem it an additional homicide and a situation wherein the defendant intentionally and specifically caused the death of the fetus?

I feel apprehensive about this bill because if it is upheld on appeal, the premises and principles can and will be applied to future abortion rights cases.

[BurtWorm]

13. Here are the 61 yea votes--including 12 Dems (Landrieu, Daschle, et al.)

Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---61
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)*
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Carper (D-DE)*
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)*
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)*
Dayton (D-MN)*
DeWine (R-OH)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)*
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)*
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)*
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)*
Nickles (R-OK)
Pryor (D-AR)*
Reid (D-NV)*
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)*
Santorum (R-PA)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

* Democrat

[BurtWorm]

14. PS: How many know this bill is called Laci and Connor's Law?

:puke: