Grey Davis Should Resign

[devarsi]

I hate to say this, because I think the guy is getting the raw deal of a life time, and because the Repukes don't deserve to have this mini-coup actually unseat the Gov.

BUT...

California is at stake. All of the polls I have seen put the recall's success rate at somewhere over 50%, even if just slightly.
I'm not just talking about fighting for a man's careeer, or fighting for a political principle.

I'm talking about a better than 50% chance that California will get handed over to a Repuke. Not just any Republican, mind you, but whatever scumbag-bottom-of-the-barrel-with-a-pluarality-of-the-votes Republican gets lucky enough to have the worlds 5th largest economy dropped in their lap. Not to mention 10% of the country's population and votes, and 20% of the 271 electoral college votes needed to get rid of the dumbf*ck Shrub!

A better than 50% chance? Are YOU willing to flip a coin for California?

Davis should bite down on a strip of leather, take this bullet for the team, let Bustamante in, and then work with the Dem majority in the state to extract whatever legal revenge can be pulled from the State's myriad laws and political measures.

To hell with the damn Repukes-AFTER you secure the state.

It sucks, but Davis can not risk California. It is not just a state issue, this has become a national issue.

Stand down, Grey. Do the only thing that will absolutely keep he Repukes out of the Governor's mansion. You will be a hero in the party, and you will be remembered in 2004. Of that, I am sure.

[PurityOfEssence]

1. Hell no!!

Have you ever dealt with a bully?

It's a messy situation, but quitting will just encourage the haters of pluralism.

[devarsi]

4. Yes, I Have Dealt With Many

and have lost as many fights as I have won-including moral victories and defeats.

What I learned is that you have to pick your fights.

California is a fight that cannot be lost. MUST NOT be lost.

Walk away from this, live to fight another day. There is abigger fight ahead, and California will play a huge part.

Are you willing to risk a Dem presidency in 2004 on Grey Davis's ability to save his job?

REALLY?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. Oh PLEASE!!! Now you are making this about the presidency??

Baloney! This is NOT a national issue except as propaganda is concerned.

Get your speculation out of my state!

[devarsi]

24. YOUR State?

It's NOT YOUR state, and it IS a national issue.

You disagree, fine.

You don't like what I'm saying, don't read it.

But it ain't your state, and I'll say what I like despite your anger.

[devarsi]

27. BTW, I thought nothing shocked you anymore...nt

[PurityOfEssence]

34. Putting a usurper on the throne won't give them the state in '04

That's just plain ridiculous. By what mechanism do you presume that'll happen? We still control the rest of the state government, even though they can filibuster 'til the proverbial cows come home.

By what mechanism do you presume that gives them the election?

These savages need to be fought.

And no, I'm far from a brawler who fights every contest, but if there's ever one that needed to be toughed out purely on principle, this is it.

[devarsi]

35. Governor Blames GOP For Cuts...

...As His Recall Poll Numbers Worsen

Sacramento -- Gov. Gray Davis, fighting for his political survival in the face of a campaign to recall him from office, signed a nearly $100 billion state budget on Saturday and laid much of the blame for painful cuts at the feet of Republicans.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/08/03/MN294235.DTL


So tell me, if Republicans have his much of an effect of the budget NOW, what makes you think it will be any easier with a Repuke Gov?

[poppabear36]

8. Beating a bully

You beat a bully by bringing in your big brother to kick his ass - in this case, Feinstein, Boxer, Panetta would all do.
This is obviously a power grab for 2004. Protect California at all costs - even Davis and his rightful position as Governor.
We can fix democracy when we get control back in 2004.
On the other hand, if we don't get power back in 2004, we can kiss democracy goodbye for generations.

[devarsi]

11. OK, Feinstein comes in

Davis goes out.

Davis is still gone, and now Feinstein's seat is up for grabs.

Same with Boxer.

Panetta is no guarantee, IMO.

BTW - if you give up a Senator to save the Governor, whatmakes you think that the Greens won't run for her seat, as they rightfully should, and split the progressive vote, allowing a Puke to step in there?

Don't you think that the Repugs have considered this as a second best option?

Its a huge chess game, and all that matters, in the end, is taking out the King.

...that would be Bush, not Davis.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Nope governor replaces the senator seat with an appointment

Seems to me you don't know what you are talking about and are speculating,

[devarsi]

22. I stand corrected

on the Senate seat. You're right. Sorry.

Still, say Bover or Feinstein run. Must they resign their Senate seat first? If they do, and they lose, there are good chances that a Repuke Governor will be there to help fill those seats.

If they do not have to resign, there's still a chance that they wont win, and a Repuke will.

Are you really ready top take that chance?

And BTW, why do you seem bitter at me?

[demnan]

2. If he were to resign . . .

Would the Lt. Gov take over? Who is the Lt Gov? Is that person a Democrat?

Would that stop the recall? If so, I'd say it's a good move, if not, I'd say stand and fight.

[devarsi]

7. Yes, He's a rock solid Dem

Cruz Bustamante.

If the Gov resigns, the Lt Gov takes over, end of the Davis recall, California is secured to fight Bush in 2004.

Why flip a coin on Davis and a constitutionally allowed principle?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. That isn't even an option

Now that the recall has been scheduled, to my understanding resignation will not make a difference. There will still be an election Did Clinton resign when he was impeached?

The polls are with NO CAMPAIGNING whatsoever. I do admit to some nervousness but I don't think he should resign and will wait for the courts to assess it. There are so far 50 possible names going on the ballot. The Ca SC needs to look at that as well as the actual language of the state constitution. I do NOT think Davis should resign yet.

As a Democrat in this state, this is war...one doesn't win war by saying...OK you win

[devarsi]

5. The VOTE has been scheduled

But if Davis resigns, then a Davis recall is moot. You cannot recall his successor, which would be Bustamante. Davis resigns, and its all over.

[demnan]

10. I'd do anything I could to stop the recall

That is not giving in, in fact it would put a stop to the madness, but it requires Davis to value the state and his party more than his own career. That's a difficult thing for any politician to do.

And I'd give one hell of speech to the voters to explain why.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Are you certain?

Please support that with actual cites. It isn't my understanding of the game. Is this something you know to be a fact or are you speculating?

[devarsi]

19. Here's my understanding

You have a good point, but here's my understanding, and rational.

much of it based on info found in a Contra Costra Times artical found here: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/6301273.htm

1)Davis cannot stop the recall if he waits until the last moment and then resigns. State law says that once "the recall petition is filed" the election goes forward even if Davis later resigns. The one uncertainty is what time is meant by when "the recall petition is filed." In local elections, petitions are normally filed at one time, so that point is easy to identify. But with a statewide recall, petitions are continually filed. Election law expert and Loyola Law School professor Hasen says the time might be interpreted to be when the first recall petition was filed (which has already occurred), or, on the other extreme, it might be when the recall petitions are certified (which has yet to occur).

So if Davis has time to resign, then he should, asap. The results are not certified, but they will be eventually.

2)If he resigns: If Davis resigns after "the recall petition is filed," the lieutenant governor would become governor until the recall election. If voters defeat the recall, Bustamante would remain governor. If voters approve the recall, Bustamante would give up the office to the person selected in the replacement election.

If Davis has already run out of time to stop the vote, he should STILL resign and NOW, and here is why. On resigning, Davis is gone, Bustamante is in. Without the emotional factor of getting rid of Davis, the whole issue becomes moot, and the vote factor will surely change. Why vote to get rid of the guy if he's already gone?

The Dems can actually use this to their advantage. Davis resigns, then Bustamante asks them to withdraw the petition. They either won't, or can't. But the average Joe wont think about this, they'll only think that the Repukes are responsible for the price of a useless recall vote.

If, for some reason, they CAN pull the petition, and do pull it, then the Dems get to keep the office, AND brag that they saved the taxpayers sever tens of millions of dollars.

Yeah, Davis should resign now, to either stop the vote, or build up sympathy and push for a no vote on the recall.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. I disagree with that strategy

If Davis gets recalled and Bustamante takes his place there will STILL be an emotional response. In war when you retreat..your usually toast.

I would frankly rather see it play out in the courts where some possibility of sound policy will result.

You are gambling on FAR TOO MANY IFS for my tastes and it isn't even clear your strategy is operable let alone workable.

[devarsi]

29. But it will be a controlled response

The sooner Davis gets out, the better chances the Dems have, whether the racall vote happens or not.

I have few ifs, really, just one for whatever way the wind blows on this, not a series of "If Then, Else This..." statements, each depending on the previous condition.

Having Davis stay is the biggest gamble. The guy has rock bottom support, and the recall is growing teeth. Staying in the game will be playing according to the Repuke's agenda.

Davis can throw a fucking wrench in their gears by resigning, and Bustamante can keep California out of the Repukes hands,

Yes, California is the Bluest state in the union, but Peukes don't need a majority, just a plurality.

Would you risk California on a coin toss? Thats even odds.

A damn Repug could get in on a 20% vote.

[sandnsea]

6. Damn D.C. Democrats have no balls!!!!

Apparently neither do we.

Oh no, we're being threatened, we better hurry up and sacrifice our legally elected Democratic candidate because they're just going to keep saying mean things about him!!!

And we wonder why Congress is hesitant to stand up and be counted. Maybe we're just too damn spineless ourselves and turn on them the minute the going gets tough.

[devarsi]

9. Yeah, it sucks

but it is the ONLY option that ENSURES California stays Blue.

There are bigger fish to fry, you know who I mean.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. No it isn't where the hell do you get that from??

Dems hold every major state office here and control the assembly and the senate. Do you think a Repub governor will get a cakewalk?

So you even live here?

[Frances]

16. I moved to Sunnyvale

in January. Where do you live?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. I was asking Devarsi

But I live in Orange County.

[devarsi]

20. Would it matter if I did?

This has become a national issue.

But, I am a California boy, born in Santa Monica's St John hospital, attended Venice High, lost my virginity under Santa Monica lifeguard station #20, and graduated from College of the Redwoods in Crescent City.

I buried my mother in Forest Lawn, in Inglewood. I served 2 years in the Manhattan Beach National Guard, and brought two sons into the world in California, one in San Francisco, and the other in Crescent City.

My father owns property in Los Angeles, and ran a nice little business in the city for over 20 years.

I'm in Utah now, finishing my education, and will return to California, and my home, when I am done.

Do I qualify to have a voice in California?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Only if you vote here..the rest is fluff

Yes you are absolutely entitled to an opinion but this is NOT a national issue this is a STATE issue. IT is a STATE election. Nationally it is NEWS item but it is a STATE election.

One thing the DEMS have in place is 1.4 million more registered voters than Republicans do in California. There is a groundswell of support for the party if not Davis.

The Republicans need to be kicked back in their place. Any capitulation energizes them and the California Republican party is a MESS!

[abbyhoffman]

30. Yes but Davis is

only the 4th Democrat Gov elected in Calf in a 100 years & all but 1 of the of the CA Supreme Court have been appointed by repukes

[sandnsea]

28. What bigger fish is there than your vote

Either it counts for something or it doesn't. Either you stand behind your vote or you lose it altogether. Davis didn't do anything illegal, this recall is a political ploy and spineless Dems are letting the Republicans roll right over them one more time. This time you can't blame the Democratic leadership, it'll be your own fault.

[devarsi]

31. The bigger fish is Bush

The rules are stacked against Davis in this recall, and the Repukes don't even have to cheat. All they have to do is play by the rules as previously set up, let Davis's low numbers do the rest.

It does not matter if it is fair, because it is legal.

It stinks, but it is legal.

If Davis goes down, and there's better than a fifty-fifty chance he will, at this point, then the door is open for a Republican Governor to take California with an insignificant percentage of the votes.

If California goes to the Red team, Bush will use that advantage to cheat his way into a California win in 2004.

You must know this is true. It is Bush's best hope for a Cal win.

If Bush WINS Cal, by hook or crook, we are fucked. I can't imagine a Dem win without California.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Assumes facts not in evidence until the SC hears the challenges

BTW, how do you explain Clinton's sweeping numbers in the state with Pete Wilson as governor?

[devarsi]

33. Everything Changed After Bush

But how do you explain California's love for Republican Governors?

[lcordero]

18. You are right, pride come before the fall

[are_we_united_yet]

23. Can't imagine

It will be very fun for a Republican Governor who succeeds Davis.

[devarsi]

26. LOL, thats an understatment!

But it wont be much fun for Californians either. Freaking Repuke's are like vampires or cockroaches, once you let them in your house you can never really get rid of them.

[Democat]

36. If Davis resigns right now, it will only make things worse!

The recall is already going to happen unless a court stops it.

If Davis were to resign today, the recall would still go on and it would make the Democrats the disgraced party in the media and the Republicans the glorious victors going into an election which will have a low turnout to start with.

There is no reason for Davis to resign and it would probably hurt our chances of holding the office at this point.

If you want to argue strategy, we should be debating whether someone should be on the ballot on our side or not. I think someone should but time is running out and I still don't know who the perfect person is. I don't want to give up Boxer of Feinstein's seats in 2004, because that would be a victory for the Republicans too.

Who could run on the Democratic side and win easily? Is there anyone?

[devarsi]

37. There Are Many Dems That Could Run

though I disgree with your reasoning.

I think Davis is toast, at this point, and is already disgraced in the eyes of those who would see taht way.

Let him "do the honorable" and stand down, if any dems go on the ballot, there should be just one.

Lete the Repukes split their votes, and the freaks like Angelyene have their fun. But let ONE Dem represent the hopes of the Dem party, and let her/him be damn popular.

Al Gore comes to mind, especially under the circumstances. Talk about rubbing it in the Repukes FACES!

Hmmm. That might not be such a bad idea....

[burr]

38. Both the Democrats and Greens are being stupid about this!

Greens, according to their state webpage, oppose this recall just as much as the state Democrats do!

So there must be a solution. And there is, it is called working together. I do not know about you, but if Davis were my Governor I would support him in a heartbeat. I would not be pushing other Democrats to run against him in this recall election. Hopefully Davis will win his court battle, but he may not.

At that point the Democrats need to work hand in hand with the Green party. Democrats should announce that our people will support the Green Party candidate on the second part of the ballot, but we need for their voters and activists to help our voters defeat this recall!

This way neither side really loses. But in the future, there could be a potention for forming a Democratic-Green party in California. If the Greens say no, the Democrats always have another list of Democratic candidates to pick from. But before we begin dividing our ranks, maybe we should reach out to others who are just as angry about this recall as we are!

Just an idea...