Does the bible say anything about abortion?

[Solomon]

I appologize if this has been discussed before and I missed it, but I was curious as to know whether there is any mention of abortion in the bible.

Since abortion has been a method of terminating pregnancy for thousands of years, it must have been a well known practice during the times set in the bible. What did Moses say about it? Jesus?
Paul?

(I don't mean broad things like "thou shalt not kill", but things specifically referring to abortion).

[yardwork]

1. If it had I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

[mr_hat]

2. If thine zygote offends thee, pluck it out. (?)

[frogbison]

5. You could start here:

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/abortion.html

[shekina]

3. abortion specifically?

Not a damn thing. The pro lifers will use verses like the one saying "I am fearfully and wonderfully made". However, I can show you passages(Old Testament of course) where God did not seem to care if a child was killed.

[OilemFirchen]

4. Depends on what you mean by "the bible"

The Talmud has a few odds 'n ends, most of which accomodate abortion or even (to some scholars) mandate it. http://www.vbm-torah.org/halakha/abortion.htm">Abortion: A Halakhic Perspective is a well-respected treatise on the matter.

[Az]

6. There are a few things

Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

So its a little unclear as to what gods position is on abortion.

[CatWoman]

8. you know, Az

for an Atheist, you know an awful lot about the Bible

:hi:

[Az]

14. Years of debates

many years of debates. :D

[Solomon]

7. It is an interesting question though, don't you think? I mean history

shows that in a lot of cultures for a long time, woman used abortions to regulate their families. It was a widespread practice in many places.

Surely our moral masters walking the earth over the ages, would have mentioned this as a sin.

You know what. I think I might can google it.

[Az]

13. Actually

The current fundimentalist mindset in regards to abortion is a very recent thing historically. For the bulk of history they sided with the Jewish interpretation of the matter that ensoulment occurred with the first breath (hence the fear of cats stealing breath etc).

The recent change seems tied in large part to a combination of issues tied to the Catholic church. The policy of Papal infallibility tied into their declaration of Humanae Vitae which mandated that the official doctrine was against birth control and abortion.

[Yupster]

18. Couple of citations

In Luke 1: 39-45, a newly pregnant Mary goes to visit Elizabeth, herself pregnant. When Elizabeth greets Mary, Elizabeth's fetus (John the Baptist) "leaped in her womb". as he met fetus Jesus for the first time.

In Jeremiah 1: 4-5, God tells Jeremiah that he knew him before he was formed in the womb, and he had already set him apart before he was born.

[Solomon]

19. Nope. These don't qualify. All that tells us is there was something

special about Jesus, John and Jeremiah, and it obviously was since they are casts as prophets and the son of god.

[Az]

20. We can figure some more from that

Its not like women only just recently began to notice the kicks during their pregnancies. Its common enough. What is significant is that the bible specifically does not mention any of the acts of killing a woman with child as being the killing of the fetus. At most it provides for a fine in the case of a malicious termination of the fetus.

[Solomon]

21. I still say that Exodus one doesn't cut it. It says nothing about a woman

killing a fetus at all whether malicious or not. I see that Exodus thing as supporting a woman's right to control her own body. Think about it. It's a crime only if a man does it. I can see why. Men would just kill the babies they didn't want. It protects woman's right to decide whether to have the child.

[PassingFair]

9. According to God,

any man who suspects his wife of adultery must bring her into God's tent, where a priest will make her drink dirty water. "...the water", God explains, "shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people". Unless, of course, the woman is innocent, in which case "she shall be immune and able to conceive children"
-Numbers 5:11-31

Also check out Hosea 13:16.

God, the world's most prolific abortionist. All those miscarriges. And no limbo....

P.S. Nod to Ken's Guide to the Bible, a handy reference....

[Redbear]

10. Pretty much the only thing the anti-choice poepel have to go on

is the statement in the Psalms that God knew the psalmist before he was knit in his mother's womb.

Jesus and Paul both said nothing.

On interesting thing in Exodus among all the "Thou shalt not mix fibers" laws it states that if two men are fighting and acidentally hit a woman causing her to miscarry the penalty is as follows:

Woman not otherwise injured - whatever damages her husband claims

Woman injured - eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth etc.

In other words the Bible actually takes the opposite position of the Fetal Protection Act thing the Republicans just passed.

[Woodstock]

11. This is a very informative piece from a Rabbi

http://rj.org/roevwade/gelfand.shtml

Here's an excerpt, but read the whole page, it's very good, not a long read:

...Different faiths and individuals have widely divergent views of when "ensoulment" of the fetus occurs. For the Catholic Church, life begins at conception; for Jews and many Protestants, life begins at birth. Our perspectives are some nine months apart. Genesis 2: 7 reads, " And God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul." Believing in a soul and when it becomes a viable life force is a religious belief.

...Judaism has always been in favor of pregnancy and birth. Yet, Judaism teaches that the removal of a fetus is not to be equated with murder. The fundamentalists' slogans are invalid and unacceptable to us, even to those Jews who may be opposed to abortion. In Judaism, when and if there is a choice between the mother and the life of the unborn, the mother's life takes precedence. For we Jews, life begins at birth and is celebrated 8 days later with the conveying of a Hebrew name and linkage to the covenant - a brit. For the traditionalists among us, Rashi, the 11th century sage, says that the fetus becomes a human being when the head crowns at the moment of delivery. And, Jewish tradition states that funeral services and mourning are suspended when an infant dies in the first 30 days as though the infant was never intended to be a living being.

The earliest reference to abortion in Judaism can be found in Exodus 21:22-23 when a pregnant woman is injured and loses the fetus. The responsible party is simply liable to pay a fine. There is no capital punishment for the death of a fetus in the womb. The embryo as part of the mother has no legal rights and, though alive, is not considered a person.

In the Mishnah Ohalot 7:6, written nearly 2,000 years ago, a woman is prohibited from sacrificing her own life for that of the fetus, and if her life is threatened, she is allowed no other option but abortion. In addition, if the mental health, sanity or self-esteem of the woman (as in rape or incest) is at risk due to the pregnancy itself, the woman is permitted to terminate. We come by our "Pro-Choice" credentials with 'yichus' and textual integrity.

[OilemFirchen]

12. Another cite

And one of the most compelling, is http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/english/ethic/pregnancy-1.htm">Multifetal Pregnancy Reduction and Disposal of Untransplanted Embryos in Contemporary Jewish Law and Ethics.

I've always wanted to talk this up with a "pro-lifer", but suspect that I wouldn't get very far...

[Rev. Day-Bu]

15. Two pertinant quotes

Exodus 21:22-23:
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life."

Hosea 13:16:
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."


Interesting, huh?

Every thinking person ought to bookmark and reguarly visit The Skeptics Annotated Bible. And check out what the Bible says about lots of issues.

[Solomon]

16. After my google I see that the only specific mention of abortion is

God doing it or causing it. I don't consider the Exodus passage to mean abortion because the practice was carried out by women for women. Why should the law be limited only to whether a man injures the woman? No. This passage is not really about abortion.

Abortion was an widely accepted prerogative of women for thousands of years. This is not something that would have been ignored by Moses or Jesus if it is such a great sin. They would have ranted and raved against it.

Interesting.

[OilemFirchen]

17. Because women were chattel

Foetuses too.

[troublemaker]

22. deleted/ redundant n/t