Price of gas: How high is too high?

[prolesunited]

Gas prices have hit record levels and there seems to be no end in sight. Yet, people continue to drive to the pump and fill up their SUVs. At what point do people begin to change their habits?

Gas nationwide is averaging $1.75 per gallon.

Has that effected your driving habits?
Did that influence your choice of vehicle?
What would be the "tipping point" for the price of gas?

As far as alternatives, what are some strategies you find useful for conserving gas?

[Another Bill C.]

1. Over $2.00 to reach parity with 1960s price

I believe the figure is somewhere close to $2.00 to equal the inflation adjusted price of the 1960s. The fuel tax increases since that time might bring this figure up a bit.

[prolesunited]

4. Really?

So, adjusted for inflation, we're actually paying less?

In comparison, what impact has cheap gas had on habits? Our communities?

[treepig]

35. the all time high was under reagan, and was about $3

when the value of money is adjusted for inflation (which you really have to do, because after all the minimum wage is also currently at an all time high!!)

[toddzilla]

2. I drive a larger car that gets good mileage on the highway

If you accelerate slower you'll save quite a bit of gas. I'm an ex-drag racer so i'm pretty heavy-footed.

I plan on moving to within a few miles of my new job so i can ride/walk to work if i feel like it.

I point at navigators and laugh my ass off.

[rednek_Liberal]

6. Why are you an Ex -Drag racer

Did your Dress Get wet?

[foreigncorrespondent]

12. What...

...do you mean by "Did your dress get wet?"

[gander2112]

36. i believe...

the reference was about running a RUNNING rance while in drag.

I just about spit my coffee over my nice 20" cinema display. Thanks for the morning laugh.

Geoff

[Warpy]

10. It aint what you drive so much as

...how far you drive it. People who live an hour or more away from their jobs so they can afford bigger houses and yards for the kiddies are going to be badly hurt as gas prices rise, even if they drive Japanese econoboxes, because they'll be filling those tanks two to three times a week, at least.

I live in the inner city and drive a light pickup, and fill the tank only every 10-12 weeks or so. Really. There is poor public transportation here, but my "other car" is an electric scooter, adequate for short trips to the grocery etc, and nearly everything I require is well within the range of the scooter.

People who are contemplating moves out to the exurbs really need to think very carefully about what three or even four dollar a gallon gas is going to do to their budgets, along with the necessity of frequent vehicle replacement.

[hangar18]

18. Polite question for Warpy

Given how often you fill your tank, and what you drive, it appears you live within 5 miles of your work. Why don't you bike to work?

[newyawker99]

38. Hi hangar18!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LynzM]

3. People in Europe

Pay the equivalent of $3-5/gallon, I think. Not sure with the euro/dollar conversion and the fact that oil's still based on the dollar. They have tiny, tiny cars. I wonder how high it has to get here before people start "mini-sizing" cars...

[Skittles]

30. their taxes is what does them in

we don't tax gas at the same amount they do

[prolesunited]

32. But, I think their

taxes, in part, are designed to foster a society not based on cars. The thing is that they have a MUCH better public transportation system and a much more bicycle friendly, making it easier not to rely on their cars.

[gander2112]

37. only partly true...

However, the real reason is that as Europe developed over the centuries, the towns and cities have grown from often ancient feudal domains castles, etc.) and thus they remain highly centralized, densely populated centers.

Concentrated populations as such lend themselves to public transit being more effective and accepted.

We, on the other hand have developed relatively low population densities, and enormous, sprawling suburbs, that have fostered the automobile lifestyle.

I would gladly pay 3.50 a gallon (what I saw on my last business trip to Germany) to have the quality and maintenance of the autobahn system.

Geoff

[In Truth We Trust]

5. boycott

Gas Prices are at all time highs!

Exxon/ Mobil made $21,000,000,000.00 (BILLION) in net profits last year alone!

Exxon still has not paid the $5,000,000,000.00 it still owes for the Exxon Valdez oil spill that occurred 15 years ago!

Please boycott all Exxon/Mobil gas stations and convenience stores until they meet their obligations in full AND the PRICE OF GAS DROPS to $1.20 per gallon max!

Please pass this on to as many people you possibly can.

[rednek_Liberal]

7. I have ben boycotting Exxon/mobile

ever since the Spill and will continue to do so,(well at least until gas prices come down to reasonable levels that is)

[Viking12]

24. You may boycott EXM's retail

but, given that Exxon is a major player at so many levels of the oil chain, chances are high that you're still buying Exxon oil whether you know it or not.

[jorno67]

13. Thursday March 25th

A mobile gas station/convenience store in Windham NH held a Bush block party. They totally believe the only way to be patriotic is to be a republickin.

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. For me...

...it is already too high.

Some parts of Melbourne are already paying over a dollar a litre (I think it is 4.2 litres to every gallon), so we are paying over $4.00 a gallon here.

I was lucky and heard it on the radio that the prices were going to go over the dollar mark again, so I filled up that day at just on 90 cents a litre. And that was just over a week ago.

[strategery blunder]

16. I thought it was 3.8 liters to the gallon?

Or are you talking about "imperial gallons?"

(I live in the U.S. if that helps...)

[happyslug]

9. $5.00 Gallon

The reason is simple, US Minimum wage workers have to quite driving at that rate.

The calculation is simple Minimum wage is $5.15 per hour. There are 2080 hours in a year (40 hours per week for 52 weeks). Thus income for a minimum wage earner earns just over$10,000 a year.

The US Social Security Tax is 7%, wage taxes are 1-2 percent, state taxes can be the same (For this paper I will assume total of 10% total taxes). That is $1000 a year, leaving $9000.

If the worker lives in Public housing, he has to pay 30% of his income as rent, or $3000 dollars.

The worker has to eat, if we assume a Dollar a meal, three meals a day or 365 times 3 or 1095 meals (we will use $1000).

Thus out of his $10,000, the minimum wage worker has to spend a lest $5000 for food, taxes and housing. Leaving $5000 for all other expenses of the worker.

A car will cost about $1000 to own (not to buy but to own, insurance, maintenance etc takes up the $1000).

This leaves $4000 for gasoline.

The average car gets 20 miles to the Gallon. The average worker drives 15,000 miles a year. Thus the average drier uses 750 Gallons a year. 4000 divided by 750 is 5 1/3. Thus the minimum wage worker has NO MONEY FOR ANY THING BESIDES gasoline once the price of Gasoline equals $5.33.

Now this is the HIGHEST the price can be for ANY minimum wage worker to continue driving. I suspect a more realistic number would be $4.00 a gallon, but $5.00 is what I think is the max. For at $5.00 a gallon minimum wage workers can no longer drive to work, and when the minimum wage worker quits driving, the demand for gasoline will drop and the price of gasoline will either stabilize or start to drop (For minimum wage workers will NOT start to drive as soon as the price drops, they have to find a new job and buy a new car, than the demand for gasoline will increase).

Please note once the Price gets to $5.00 a gallon, the Price will fluctuates wildly until the price stabilize (and than only for a time period).

[strategery blunder]

17. I think your assumption of $1/meal is too low

especially in places where the cost of living is high no matter how much you economize.

[happyslug]

21. I was trying to max out the numbers

People will try all different ways to keep working so other errors exist, but the max is the max it can go. I fully expect the numbers to be lower than $5.00 a gallon, but I know it can NOT be any higher.

[lectrobyte]

19. interesting analysis

There's also the prices of things that depend on fuel to be produced and delivered, such as farming, etc., so as fuel prices increase, so do a lot of other prices.

The pain point might be a little higher then $5.00, basically becuase I see a lot more folks driving 12MPG SUV's than 36MPG compacts. So they (SUV drivers) are spending triple over what I am for gas already and not feeling too much pain, or they wouldn't have bought that SUV.

I tend to suspect the average driver will drive a lot less than 15,000 miles a year when gas prices rise, and I'd suspect that a lot of minimum wage earners don't have cars and rely on mass transit.

The numbers might be something like 15K mi./yr at 2.00/gal for an expense of $1500, and as prices climb higher then folks car pool, or drive less, and it would be something like 10K mi./yr. at 5.00/gal for an expense of $2500, and $1000 comes from increased credit card debt, less vacation expenses, fewer new toys, reduced college funds etc.

[happyslug]

23. this is for Minimum Wage workers

Others will be higher, but It will be the first stop for price as the price of gasoline goes up and up.

[madrchsod]

11. geo metro

40 mpg...interpid gets 26-28 on the highway. finding a job in my town-ha! and of course, laugh more at the drivers of suv`s....

[lectrobyte]

14. tips for saving gas

Probably just common sense, but I'll throw these in:

Walk, bike, use mass transit. Car pool. Let the kids take the school bus.

Buy a fuel-efficient practical car. Plan your driving, and combine trips when possible.

Inflate your tires to at least the manufacturers specs (the ones on the car, not the max pressure given on the tire), a pound or three over is better for mileage.

[hangar18]

15. Commute by bicycle

I put my 12 mpg K2500 in the driveway a couple of weeks ago for the next 8-9 months, except for a few more snowmobile trips this spring and the occational camping trip.

[happyslug]

25. Good first step

Also remember the smaller motorcycle and mopeds can get 100-200 mpg. Mopeds are a way to reduce gasoline consumption (Through a moped has a hard time to get per 35mph, but for most people's commute faster than they are averaging now in rush hour traffic.

[TacticalPeek]

20. Ex-tax, it's usually less than the cost of a gal of bottled water.

Artificially cheap, actually, to make alternatives 'too expensive'.

[tedoll78]

22. higher higher higher !

Make the gas pie higher!

The higher gas goes, the lower W goes! $2/gallon? Try $3/gallon! Yay!!

[prolesunited]

27. The problem with that scenario is

that they'll let the prices climb really high and then rush to the rescue at the last minute to gain favor before the public. Seems to me they might have some influence in the oil industry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. I hope it goes to 5 bucks a gallon

a. It will WAKE people up.
b. It will turn industry in on itself
c. It is better for the planet.

[ret5hd]

33. no...$10.00...

i have read that is the "cost" of gasoline after you figure in:
military intervention to keep the flow going
environmental clean-up costs

[lectrobyte]

42. With the dollar vs. the Euro factored in...

$10.00/gallon is a possibility. For me, $5/gal gas wouldn't really change anything. Our cars get in the mid 30's, and we average around 10 to 12K mi. per year. I'm way too old to consider a moped or motorcycle, but I still have a bicycle that I try to ride and would use that more if gas prices really got insane.

[Oddman]

28. Gas is very cheap

On a per-mile basis, adjusted for inflation, gasoline costs about half of what it did in the early 1980's, according to the Energy Information Administration. Amazing but true - so buy more Suburbans, grotesque Hummers and snowmobiles and destroy the environment for all your children and grandchildren.

[prolesunited]

29. Welcome to DU, Oddman!

:hi:

That picture is quite disturbing. Did you do that yourself?

BTW, do you have a link available for that point?

[Oddman]

31. Thanks for the welcome!

Yeah - I did it - it represents how I feel about our misleader!}( It is a satire!!!


http://www.eia.doe.gov/

[gander2112]

34. Sure has...

I am riding my motorcycle 3-4 times a week now. I have a smaller bike that gets even better milage that I will ride when gas goes well above $2.00 a gallon. I like getting 40-60 mpg and having fun on the commute to boot!

Geoff

[Logansquare]

39. Even if you don't drive, the price of gas will hit your wallet

If you buy products (including food) transported by truck, you should be feeling it soon. And as businesses feel the pinch, they freeze wages, or even lay off workers--as if enough of that isn't happening already.

[mtnester]

40. I can absolutely tell you how high is too high

The day after 9/11, some asshole in our town put gas at $8.00 per gallon, then went to $12.00 per gallon, and the cops had to come save him from his own gas station. He was literally later run out of town, lost his wife in a divorce, shunned by everyone (he used to be well respected in the community). The local news showed a picture of his sign with the price, and then he started to get death threats. He lost his has rights with Shell, but then was able to get tight with Exxon before he lost everything in the divorce and had to sell his gas station. No one knows where he is now, and no one cares. So, I figure $8.00 per gallon just ought to do it.

[lectrobyte]

41. I have to ask, though...

if every station in town had the same prices, what then?

[Nikia]

43. We use our more fuel efficient vechicle

Before, we didn't think much about it. We only have a one car garage/driveway so we used whatever car was in the ready position when we were both home and my husband usually took the larger vehichle on his business trips because I preferred to drive the other. Now we are more conscious of this.
I live in a rural area. Many people have to drive relatively long distances to go to work or make shopping trips. There is no alternative transportation. I feel bad for some of my coworkers and friends who do commute long distances while earning low wages.
On the otherhand, people in more densely populated areas should use public transportation. My sister, in Chicago, walks or takes the L most of the time. When she worked downtown in retail, people would complain about traffic and parking. When she suggested that they use the public transportation system, they laughed. I do realize though that some metro areas don't have good public transportation that reaches enough destinations or only passes a particuliar point once an hour or so which may not be very practical for getting to work or other time dependent activites.

[Heyo]

44. Is gas really....

Like 4 bucks a gallon over in Europe?

I heard that a few times, is that true?

I guess that's why they all drive those minis.

Heyo