Late night, drunk debate with Junior Statesman friend/opponent

[MAlibdem]

Topics covering Feminism, Homosexual Marraige, and Religion...effing long tho. And in AIM gibberish. I think I (Msrjackal) did well tho.


Msrjackal: acute horniness
B------6: awww yes i am familkiar w/ tht lol
Msrjackal: mmhmm
Msrjackal: so bad you break down and call a girl you really didn't want to see ever again
Msrjackal: stuff like that
B------6: yea neva actually got the nerve to call the person put did have deep regrets of not taking action
Msrjackal: mmm
Msrjackal: but mormons cant do that shizzle
B-----6: I know....but once in wile u wanta break the rules...not tht i do
Msrjackal: lol
Msrjackal: you want to because that's your nature
Msrjackal: which (at least in your view) is how g-d created you?
B------6: yea...wht are u tryin to do
Msrjackal: nothing
Msrjackal: just interesting that if g-d created you in a way that makes you want to do things
Msrjackal: and then forbids those things
B------6: and...cuz i know ur not done
Msrjackal: no
Msrjackal: that's it
B------6: by the way this is wht i love about ur personality ur ability to poinnt things out
Msrjackal: it's odd
B---------6: are u sure thts it
Msrjackal: well, im drunk, so im not sure
Msrjackal: let me review
B-------6: lol
Msrjackal: you want to do sexual things
Msrjackal: it is your human nature
B--------6: uhuh
Msrjackal: G-d created you in the way
Msrjackal: but g-d says no
Msrjackal: the question is why?
Msrjackal: and i have two answers
Msrjackal: one you might like
Msrjackal: the other you wont
B--------6: go ahead
Msrjackal: the first is that g-d created humankind with the desire for people to look around, glory in His creation, and see it as good
Msrjackal: thus trust g-d, and prove their love by going against their nature
Msrjackal: OR, a patriarchal society created the concept of g-d, or at least co-opted it, to make women dependent on men
Msrjackal: and ensure a clean succession of their worldly goods
Msrjackal: and inheritance
Msrjackal: through "clean women" who are virgins at marraige
Msrjackal: im talking religion/christianity in general, not necessarily mormonism
Msrjackal: so
Msrjackal: i lean towards #2
Msrjackal: but i can see the appeal of #1
B-------6: love the 1st the one...HATE the last one but im sure u guessed tht...although i see ur point
Msrjackal: the question is, why should g-d make us suffer?
Msrjackal: you can make a choice without suffering...i guess
Msrjackal: no, i see the appeal
B-------6: whn i meet him ill ask lol
Msrjackal: even if i don't think it's great
Msrjackal: hmmm
Msrjackal: you'll be happy to kno that i did decide there must be some kind of creator
Msrjackal: or "original transcendental spark"
B-------6: yes...some kind...so Im guessing ur still not sold on the god subject
Msrjackal: certainly not on the g-d described in the new testament, at least not as a literal reading
B-------6: u rather the old testament version?
B-------6: wait ur jewish dud lol
Msrjackal: lol, i still wouldn't read that literally
Msrjackal: the moral lessons are generally valid
Msrjackal: so tell me about gay people
B-------6: wht do u wanna kno...
B-------6: wht wld u like to bust my balls about now lol
Msrjackal: lol
Msrjackal: should gay ppl be allowed to get married?
Msrjackal: *allowed* is bothersome
Msrjackal: but we'll use that
B-------6: here it goes...no i don't agree with gay ppl getting married, b/c marriage is suppose to be b/w a man and a woman, in the religious sense
B-------6: yet i do believe tht it is not fair tht they don't trecieve the same rites as a couple, tht is why civil unions are tolerable
Msrjackal: ok
Msrjackal: but
Msrjackal: marraiges administered by the state aren't religious in nature, they're civil
Msrjackal: they have no religious context
Msrjackal: separation of church and state yo
B-------6: sum wld say, and I would agree, tht they lost these rites when they "decided" to be homosexual, but in a world where state and church shld be seperate, civil unions are a okay
Msrjackal: AND...marraige until a hundred years ago meant a man owned a woman
Msrjackal: so the institution can change
B-------6: why do they have to use marriage...whts wrong with civil union...
Msrjackal: 1. you don't lose rights
Msrjackal: 2. supreme court decided gay relationships were legal
Msrjackal: 3. you are born gay or straight, you can't choose
B-------6: okay since the institution can change lets change it to say tht marriagees are b/w a man and a women...homosexual couples are not entilted to it...I won'y say marriage is a rite...but rather a spiritual act...
Msrjackal: rite, or right?
B-------6: although the def of marriage is not given in the const...we all know tha t it is rooted in religion
Msrjackal: i think the question boils down to, do you think homosexual relationships are as valid as straight ones
Msrjackal: marraige is rooted in child-rearing and inheritance concerns
B-------6: micxhael don't make me answer this lol
Msrjackal: not religion
Msrjackal: actually
Msrjackal: if you really boil it down
Msrjackal: the question is, do you approve of homosexuality?
Msrjackal: approve=tolerate, not care about, consider normal
B-------6: no i don't think there valid...i think its an abomination...there im no longer pc....but Im tolerant...somwe wld say to tolerant
Msrjackal: ah
Msrjackal: ok, just so we're clear
B-------6: uhhh i am get sooo abused whn i go to college...
Msrjackal: b/c i really dont like it when anti-gay marraige ppl try to act like they aren't bigots
Msrjackal: because, as you said...it's an abomination
B-------6: but does tht make me a biggot for saying tht
Msrjackal: a good question...
Msrjackal: in your eyes, clearly no
Msrjackal: but i think it boils down to the g-d question again
Msrjackal: why would g-d make people a certain way if he then forbid it?
Msrjackal: and i would again suggest that it is because the concept of g-d has been co-opted
Msrjackal: to repress
Msrjackal: and sooth angst
Msrjackal: but
Msrjackal: even if you take the other viewpoint
Msrjackal: i dont think just calling people an abomination is a great way to go
Msrjackal: what do you care, they've clearly chosen their path, let them go to hell...
Msrjackal: they clearly dont really believe in it
Msrjackal: so they're set
Msrjackal: and you do, so you can be content the abominators are going to hell...
Msrjackal: and they can be happy
Msrjackal: and you can be happy
B-------6: we are all human with natural animalkistic instincts, but god calls to go against our human nature to strive and be beeter thn wht we are, to sparate us froom the animals
Msrjackal: except we are animals...but ok
Msrjackal: hmmm
Msrjackal: i agree to an extent
Msrjackal: but not biologically
Msrjackal: only mentally
Msrjackal: and i think that hormonal secretions and genetic concerns such as homosexuality are biological
Msrjackal: and thus can't really be "repressed"
B-------6: on tht note I know i shldn't care about them, but they live in my society, and me in theres, just like them Im trying to make my sciety suitablt to my tastes and likes, and gay marriage does not fit my likes
Msrjackal: y?
Msrjackal: well
Msrjackal: more accurately
Msrjackal: why should someone else be unhappy so you can be happy
Msrjackal: /
Msrjackal: ?
B--------6: because Im a mean evil, evil person, who wants society to reflect christianity
Msrjackal: lol
B--------6: and by allowing gay marriage to occur I am a participant in the already decomposing morality that is our society
Msrjackal: well, you got it half right
Msrjackal: well, i dont think gay marraige is morally wrong
Msrjackal: i think the decomposing morality has to do more with seeking profit by titilating that some kind of democratic or liberal conspiracy
B-------6: and I fully accept ur opinion, and understand ur viewpoit, and I hope u feel the same way about mine
B------6: lol
Msrjackal: i accept it as a viewpoint and understand how you would come to hold it
Msrjackal: i think it's shit, but...
Msrjackal: i think that's the best you're gonna get
B-------6: thnxxxxxxxx...i'll try not to take tht offensivwly
Msrjackal: haha
B-------6: u my dear are going to make a terrific lawyer..if you choose to become one, and if you do I hope to meet your "everything must be politically correct so everyone can be happy, even if it is corroding the moral fiber of our country " butt in court someday
Msrjackal: nope
Msrjackal: i hate pc crap
B--------6: lol
Msrjackal: i do like equal rights
B----------6: as do i
Msrjackal: so...what's the problem?
Msrjackal: oh ya...gays are an abomination
B---------6: equal rights are a political thing...church and state shouldn't mix...marriage belongs, and will forever be religius...take a civil union and get over it
Msrjackal: uh, i live in MA
Msrjackal: im fine with a marraige
Msrjackal: separate but equal isn't equal, so the saying goes


ok, i have a feeling if we met in court i'd destroy her, but w/e

edited to protect the bigoted from your hatemail. you have to understand, she was brought up mormon, and her political viewpoints are religiously driven. apparently she's a moderate...haha

[MAlibdem]

1. we are still talking

and even she admits he has a "sneaky lying side" even if she appreciates his "opinions...for instance abortion(which will not be discussed tonite ) and his view on the family"

so life is a nice balance.