Anyone catch Bill Clinton's spin on Kerry's 80 Billion $ war vote?

[mdmc]

Hardball was jocking it quite a bit. Basically, the Big Dog said that it was a protest vote that had no bearing on the result.

Too bad Kerry can't wiggle like this!

[Touchdown]

1. Hey now!

We have to be happy with what we got, and prop him up as much as we can. Otherwise the other side wins. You can't have someone with a brilliant wit like Clinton all the time. It's too bad, but there it is.:-)

[dkf]

11. Yuck.

That's our job huh, be happy with what we've got and prop him up?

Ugh.

You make this very distasteful.

[Shaun]

12. Well, yeah...

If you're a Democrat, that's pretty much the deal. We have a nominee. The time for infighting, backbiting and second guessing is over. It's time to rally and win one for the Party.

[newyawker99]

33. Hi Shaun!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[drdigi420]

34. screw the party

win this one for the american people

[JI7]

17. you don't have to prop up anyone

in a campaign every candidate has people who support them and do so in many different ways. if you find it so distasteful then don't support him. but there are many, and most voters in the primary who are happy with kerry and are more than happy to support john kerry. just as john kerry supported clinton against those who attacked clinton for not serving in the vietnam war, bill clinton will support kerry. just as kerry got clinton to support normalization of relations with vietnam while the right wing was attacking him fo rbeing a commie and other crap, bill clinton will support kerry when he needs it. clinton was right about john kerry being the one to say "send me" when many others who could have gone didn't go. and this applies to many things such as helping start programs in poor areas especially for kids, fighting against environmental racism where pollution causing factories are often set up near poor minority areas and many other things.

[mdmc]

19. yes . and the question remains

Has * pissed off the middle enough to swing them towards Kerry? We know that the country was split in 2000. Has 9-11-01 and the war on terrorism forced people into *'s camp? This is really a campaign about perception.

[JI7]

21. well, jobs, economy is more important

to most people. which is why kerry is tied with a small lead in ohio right now.

[mdmc]

29. Ohio is where we find victory

Kerry needs to get the vote out in Ohio. I hope Kerry can take this argument; * cares more for the wealthy than he does the working poor and the working class. That is the recipe for success.
If you notice, this is the jist of the whole Nader campaign.

Nader's message is the pure counter argument to the GOP, without all the 'elect ability' type hang ups that snarl the Dems.

Nader is not going to hurt us, he is going to articulate the difference between * and Kerry.

Nader continues to hype up Kerry over Bush.

In Ohio, most people will hear the Nader pitch, and, if they were non voters or independents, they will probably vote for Kerry. It would take a diehard issue person to vote for Nader, given what is at stake.

[NicRic]

25. can be 1/2 smart as Clinton and still 2 times smarter then bush !

.

[madaboutharry]

2. There will only be one

Bogie, one Marilyn, and one BIG DOG!!!

[wyldwolf]

3. "slick willy" = rightwing nic name...

[mdmc]

4. I changed it just for you, but I think that Clinton was slick

and that he has helped to destroy the progressive agenda in the USA. Please name one thing that Clinton did that was liberal, and not moderate.

[Cuban_Liberal]

5. Sorta depends on who defines 'liberal' and 'moderate'. doesn't it?

I've yet to see a utilitarian definition of those terms offered on these boards...

[wyldwolf]

6. exactly. I ask EVERY DAMN TIME this discussion is raised...

...someone give a definition of liberal/progressive and moderate that doesn't come from somewhere other than one's limited imagination.

[Old and In the Way]

7. By comparison to this administration, he was a flaming liberal.

labels are relativistic concepts, defined by the user.

[wyldwolf]

8. For every ONE thing you think Clinton did to "destroy" the progessive..

..agenda, I can name you two things he did that preserved and advanced it.

But first, we must agree on what the "progressive agenda" is.

So, what authoritive source will we get that definition from?

[mdmc]

14. Progressive look to change the status quo.

They do not perjure themselves over a blowjob.
I love Clinton, but he is no Carter.
Here is my definition: Progressives don't support the drug war or the death penalty. Especially if the inhaled themselves.
How is that for a progressive definition?

[JI7]

18. well howard dean supports both

the drug war and the death penalty. and dean also admitted to using marijuana.

[mdmc]

20. Yeah, Dean SUCKED on these issues

yet was able to gather support across the political spectrum. I make no "bones" about Kerry being more liberal and electable than Dean. If Kerry had opposed the war, I would have supported him from the get go.

[wyldwolf]

9. I think it is funny everytime a Dean supporter complains someone is...

...moderate.

Just cracks me up.

[mdmc]

13. Well, I supported Dean based on his anti war stance

And , I too would become angry when my fellow Deanies would attack Kerry as Bush lite. I understand that Kerry is a certified leftie. I also understand that he hasn't created much enthusiasm during his campaign YET.

[JI7]

16. hahhah

just because you aren't enthusiastic about him doesn't mean others aren't either. dean did nothing for me in terms of enthusiasm. and kerry did pretty well in getting others to vote for him in the primary. better than every other candidate. and his first victory in iowa came just days after many considered his campaign to be dead. those who endorsed kerry stuck by him through the weeks and months he was down in the polls because they love him and are enthusiastic about him.

[mdmc]

22. And how was voter turn out?

Was it record breaking, or was it disappointing? In NYS, turnout was about the same as in 2000.
I hope Kerry can rally the troops better than Gore did in 2000. Kerry is definitely a better candidate than Gore when it comes to running between the GOP and the Greens.

[JI7]

24. high in iowa and new hampshire

kerry pretty much had new york. when there was more competition earlier and outcome wasn't as well known there was a high turnout which worked in kerry's favor. in california, which was super tuesday, we were still voting when edwards announced he was going to drop out. this caused many people, edwards and kerry supporters to stay home as edwards dropped out and kerry people thought he had it so felt they didn't have to go out. i know i had a few people i wanted to take to the polls to vote for kerry but when it was clear he won i stayed home instead to just celebrate and watch on tv. also many people were happy with either kerry or edwards winning so didn't vote that day. kind of like al gore in the primary where he pretty much had it won so many didn't turn out. and a primary is much different from the general election. the primary usually has low turnout and it's mostly party members. kerry did well in terms of getting the base to vote for him. edwards did well among republicans which gave him the close race in wisconsin and georgia where they had open voting so maybe kerry might get edwards or someone like him to help in reaching outside the base.

[mdmc]

30. This year we will need high voter turnout

and the primary was a test run of our GOTV machine. In my election ward, turnout sucked. The swing states is where Kerry's GOTV machine will have to purr like a 911.

I live in NY. I must decide whether to focus on local Dems in 2004, or help GOTV in Ohio or another local swing state. I'll probably stay local. I have a friend that is running for judge.

[Fridays Child]

10. After Bush's ad aired in WV, I said the same thing to my email list.

Regarding specific provisions in the 87 billion dollar package, the ad stated, "...that Senator Kerry voted against body armor for the troops, higher combat pay, and better healthcare for reservists.

"In fact, all of those issues were included in one bill. But, knowing that the Republican majority would pass it, Senator Kerry cast a symbolic vote against the bill because it funded outrageous no-bid, sweetheart contracts for companies owned by Bush cronies and contributors."

[BiggJawn]

15. Bush sort of "forgets" to mention that, doesn't he?

Out of that whole 87 Billion, something like 67 billion of it went RIGHT into Halliburtons (and after sufficient filtering, Cheney's) pockets.

And for you "disgruntled" Deanies out there:

The time for primary-style back-fighting is OVER! Either unite with us behind Kerry to unseat BUSH, or just go vote for the fucking cowboy and bypass his middle-man Nader.

Get rid of the Bush cabal NOW, or you will never see the end of it. Help get Kerry in the WH THEN go support King Ralph.

Listen to Howard. some of you would have taken a bullet for him, trust him now on this.

[mdmc]

23. lol You're either with us or against us?

I live in NYS, which will go to Kerry. Don't worry.

I really believe that Kerry is the best to run v. *. You don't need to convince me, you need to convince the half of adults that don't vote OR the GOP~Bush supporters. Nader hating doesn't do this. Am I wrong?

[JI7]

26. yes, constant nader hate and bashing is a waste of time

john kerry has known ralph nader for years and they even worked together before when kerry was very young. nader says he likes kerry and that kerry has a good record. he has even gone as far as to say if you want to get rid of bush then vote for john kerry. and so far most and probably all of nader's attacks have been on bush and not kerry. this was not the case in 2000 where nader seemed to go after gore personally. so kerry has to try to reach out to green or nader supporters and he has a good record as nader says he can use to appeal to them. he also has to appeal to swing voters and moderate republicans which he can do with his military service and going after bush on the economy.

[mdmc]

31. that is the recipe for success, JI7. Perception.

Kerry's best attack on Bush cam in his rebuttal (the official Democratic response to the Presidents Weekly National Address to the Nation) to the pResident'a weekly national address. The attack centered around the need for body armor, and how some families have taken up the slack to protect their daughters and sons.
If you notice, * is using the same issue to attack Kerry.
This election will be about who sent our troops to battle without the necessary body armor.
I've seen a * ad over a dozen times.
I heard Kerry's "Democratic response" once. I heard Bill Clinton counter the * ad twice (hardball covered it, and cspan carried the unity event).

Right now, we are losing the perception war. No one (voters) are not yet watching, but we are losing.

This is not an election we should be losing.

[bvar22]

27. Disagree.

By supporting the continued campaigns of Kucinich and Sharpton, we can make the Democratic Party address some issues the DLC would like to sweep under the carpet...and perhaps influence the Democratic Platform for 2004....maybe even influence John Kerry and his choice of VP running mate.

NAFTA and free trade

the overt racism of the War on Drugs and our Justice and Penal systems

the basic illegality of the continued Occupation of Iraq

the obscenity of Corporate influence in Washington and the Democratic Party

resistance to the Privatization of SS and further Corporate Conglomeratism

Nader will also help keep these issues in the public awareness.

NOTE:I will campaign for and vote for Kerry. No one should vote for Nader, but EVERYONE should listen to what he has to say!

[mdmc]

32. you have underlined a resonable compromise,

but why not vote for Nader in a blue or red state?

[neebob]

28. Or how about this one

Two wrongs don't make a right. Clinton's comment implies the result was good or even acceptable, when it was not.

Why not just explain there were two bills: one to fund the reconstruction by rescinding a portion of the tax cut, which he voted for, and another to fund it by going into debt, which he voted against. The latter was the version that passed. What's so hard about that? It even fits with two wrongs not making a right, a concept even the Stupids can easily grasp.

Then again, if he hadn't voted for the resolution to use force, he wouldn't have this problem.

[Oddman]

35. Let's remember this is war. . .

We are not only electing a candidate we are changing the future and ideology of America. We are bringing hope back to the millions of disenfranchised, help to the uninsured, meaning to the undereducated, resolve to the environmentalists, courage to the independent minded, honor and dignity back to the United States. This isn't just about getting Kerry elected but of getting the Democratic party back in the White House.