The People Don't Care that Bush Lied to Them (wake up/grow up..cry)

[BabsSong]

Have you ever cried your soul out as opposed to crying because you are sad or upset? That’s where I am tonight. It happens at such odd times, doesn’t it? It happened tonight as I was cooking something in the kitchen....I just broke.

I’ve been fooling myself...and so have all of us. Like all of you, I have been waiting for someone to reveal to the public how this Mafia, crime syndicate that took over our government has lied to us. I said to myself that that is when the public finally turns against this regime. Tonight, out of nowhere, I realized that the American public DOES NOT CARE that they were lied to. They..are..not ..human anymore. They really aren’t. They are not the people of even 40 years ago. These are sick puppies. They are movie, tv and media trained animals. And they are dirty, greedy people who just don‘t live in reality. They are not divine as the Christian right thinks of themselves. They LOVE to see foreigners bombed and killed just like they loved to hate Clinton (a place to blame their tension filled, frightened lives). And I know one other dirty secret of our people: they could give a rat’s butt about the ‘poor’ people of Iraq. They really don’t care. For Christ’s sake they don’t care about our 600 dead, their families and these horribly mutilated casualties. The rhetoric about “ bringing Democracy (cough, cough)” to these people is the way these morally defunct bastards cleanse their souls. In any other setting, they don’t want one of these Muslim towel heads (though they don’t wear the garb) in their neighborhoods nor taking their jobs. Bush plays to their blood lust. Dems play to their sense of helping the less fortunate and helping their own stupid, dumbass selves. But the bloodlust is much stronger than taking care of themselves because it is pumped into us via movies, tv, and the media. Thus, there is a lesson here for us.

Stop waiting around for someone or our candidates to expose these animals.....it does little damage. I have my own dark thoughts about what we need to do. I won’t say them. I just know that we can’t depend on this “outing of the truth”. Most Americans pay no attention to any of it. The rest just go into their respective corners and defend their “boy”. I wish I could end this post with some great suggestion. I don’t have any. We need to think outside the box and FAST. Don’t rely on people exposing this government to bring us victory in ’04. It isn’t going to happen. We need to find another way that blows the bottom out of the people. The repukes already know this if they have to fall back on Plan B---attack on the Homeland. We better get a plan...................any suggestions??

[teach1st]

1. Yes, we are with a culture of media-affected sensibilities

But, please, cheer up. The truth will sink in. Denial and disbelief have to come first.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

2. I sort of share your despair.

I think I know where you are coming from.

There is a big schadenfreude out and about with the folks. The dark side is becoming more and more evident.

[BabsSong]

5. This is Babs again--I think we just plain don't hurt enough

..we haven't gotten to the point where enough of us are hurting. Within 10 years it will hit and then it will be too late. But right now WE ARE THE REICH....as much as any goddamn German was supporting Hitler pre-WWII. It's just exactly the same.

[libbygurl]

10. Yes,

...can't argue with the Fascist policies promoted this administration, it's like an Orwellian nightmare that doesn't end. I don't want to think of a violent overthrow either, but I understand your feeling of hopelessness. Just don't let it completely paralyze you. Can't think of anything more to say right now...

[Stephanie]

3. Don't be ridiculous

I don't like what you're suggesting. We don't need a Plan B.

We just keep getting our guys, and the whistleblowers, out there telling the truth every day, and then we make sure the voting machines are honest, and then we whip them at the polls. That's the only option.

There is no Plan B. Nor should there be. Nor should you be advocating one.

[BabsSong]

9. Stephanie..we have had enough shit to skink the Titanic and Da' Public

just doesn't care. We care just like all acitive Dems care. Active repukes - the little Nazis - don't care. But that vast dumb assed American public out there just doesn't care. We killed da' bad guys. Dat's okay with them. And they right now and tomorrow and in Novemeber don't know who the hell Clarke is nor O'Neil nor anyone. Do you think that Americans who aren't already junkies supporting one side or the other are the ones rushing out to get Clarke's book off the shelf?? Do you know that in places like Houston, etc. the book is gathering dust. We are passing out song books to the choir. Dumbass America wants to know who is in the final Four not that they were lied into Iraq. That's as annoying to consider as having to have another commerical during the basketball game. Got one sitting in the living room right now and a bunch of equally well educated children and such kin saying "Clarke---Dick Clarke---you mean the old dude on American Bandstand".

[terisel]

28. It is a Process and some of the public will never care.

If you live in an area that will be majority pro-bush whatever he does or has done I am sure it is discouraging.

Right now most of the action is going on behind the scenes anyway.

In Watergate the public didn't drive the train to get rid of Nixon and the public isn't driving the train here-the insiders are driving and they know they have to go through the process of getting bipartisan support and getting the public on board.

I suspect that there are a lot of Republican representatives thinking very carefully now about what they should do. Every day more of the public is getting on board.

Incidentally, has John Ashcroft surfaced yet? He apparently was in on the high level meetings at the White House in the summer of 2001. His recovery from surgery should be complete now. Where is he?

[forgethell]

37. I think in some ways you are right

The American public isn't hurting, so see no reason to change. I cannot, myself, hope for things to get worse, and I cannot advocate violence. I have no ideas, either. Is there some way to 'prick' their conscience??

[Trajan]

51. You know what ? ...

I think MANY here at DU would agree that we need LESS self pity and self-aggrandizement, and MORE careful and detailed study and dissemination of the FACTS surrounding our present debacle .... not useless whining and petty crocodile tears ....

Your cynicism is the problem .... NOT Stephanie's enthusiasm ....

edit: I misread your comment, but this still applies

[EstimatedProphet]

4. Don't give up yet

I know there's a lot of Freepers that get sexually turned on by thinking about how many people have died in this, but they ARE in the minority. You have to believe that. The majority of the country DOES NOT support Bush-the polls are ebing misread to say that they do.
The tide is turning. It's s slow process but it is happenning. Keep faith.

[libbygurl]

6. Think it really started

...when Reagan took over and began the 'me' attitude so prevalent today. He also brought the political right to the extreme end of things. Please don't lose hope, even if it looks like there are more Pod People around than in the '50s. Remember that even Joe McCarthy finally self-destructed. I feel your despair, but I also feel that SOMETHING has GOT to happen, and I think it will snowball. The current state of things cannot continue.

Of course, hope springs eternal (I've been hoping ever since W "won" the White House).

[xray s]

7. Take a deep breath...let it out...everything's going to be alright

I believe people do care when they are lied to. Well, most people anyway. I don't doubt that there are people with opinions like the ones you describe, but I really think they are in the minority. My informal check on the pulse of my little corner of America is people are ready to fire Bush in November for gross incompetence.

Karl Rove's job #1 this election cycle is convincing us we can not win, we are doomed, that nothing we do will matter.

Resist. Get out and volunteer to register voters, volunteer on a campaign, work a precinct, attend a meetup, protest Bush if he comes to town.

We are going to win this thing. :)

[Jacobin]

8. They don't want to admit they were wrong

On some level, they feel guilty that they joined in the jingoistic christian jihad to go blow up brown people in anger, over an obvious pretext.

They don't like being reminded that they support a monster and thus are monsters themselves.

Many won't show up at the polls, because they no longer have the blood lust and self-righteousness. Just the bitter taste of revenge gone wrong. The rest of us have to let them stew in their sick torpor, and we have to go the polls and vote this madman out of office.

Don't despair. They can't look in a mirror and admit to themselves that they are murderers. Don't force them to look at themselves, because they are incapable of introspection in a matter so painful. Let them drown in their indignant, self-deluded ignorance.

[BabsSong]

14. Jacobin--half agree with you

I know these bastards (and I won't go into personal knowledge) will not ever admit what they have done. But, like I said in the beginning, they say it's okay 'cause we got big bad Saddam off their backs and brought them Dee-Mock-rah-see. We brought them shit and we will install another Shah to make sure they can't get uppidy with the US of A. They aren't going to admit squat. Just like a child beater or a wife beater or a nagging bitch won't admit the damage they have done. Thus, they have to go out and vote for what covers their inner dialogue rather than admit thier sin.

[Jacobin]

36. The repugs I know realize that this "democracy"

in Iraq is total tripe, hogwash and bullshit. They just laugh at the idea and know this invasion was a clusterfuck. They feel stupid, feel that they had their "patriotism" (read jingoism) used for this WMD hunt, and are only happy about the tax cuts. They are starting to worry about the deficits. The ones I know will never vote for a "librul", but they won't vote for Smirk again.

I'm sure there are anecdotes in all directions on this thing. The good news is that they are in disarray (except for his 30% of true believers who would gladly follow the moron off a cliff).

[Mari333]

11. (((Babs)))

yes, I am tired. I have my kid in Baghdad, and every day that he doesnt email I think he must have died. I imagine every day, what is he seeing, what is he experiencing, will he come home, and of course then there is the grief all day.
Just trying to do simple tasks is monumental. I forget where I put things, I walk into rooms and dont remember why I walked into them. I get calls from other mothers on occassion who are freaking out. They are experiencing it too. My mother calls me and says she cant afford meds, I can help her just so much.
And the people in my town are just assholes, they yell at us and go about their merry lives and wont speak out much if they dont like Bush, they are more concerned about their social lives and looking good.
I wonder, if when the draft comes, they will wake up.
I sure didnt want the last 30 years of my life to be spent fighting fascism , I sure miss the 90's.
In only 3 years that piece of shit has destroyed our country. and has destroyed other countries and people.
I sometimes forget to sit down, to take care of myself. But its always there, this foreboding, this horror, this terror our kid is in trouble and we cant save him
Its always there. I cant shake it. I take light Xanax just to get thru the day. Or I would NOT function. Im having panic attacks severely. My husband is a mess.
I cant go too fast. I might break.
I know how it feels. Its like a nightmare and no one is listening.
When I go to the store and see people happy and chattering away I want to slap them for not being outraged.
(((Babs))))
Its getting me down so low, I dont know what up is.

[BabsSong]

18. Oh, God Mari. let me break

I'm 59. My husband was a medic in Nam. The Cong first killed the medic and the radio man. He was the only one of the guys he trained with to come home. Our kids are now 28 to 34 years old so won't be drafted. But finally I've become a grandmother in the last 9 months...a boy and six months later another boy to another child. This shit isn't a war that a parent can look at and say "oh, send these guys now and wipe it up in 4-5 years 'cause my kid then won't go". This is a life long piece of shit. Of course we can't fight terrorism this way. But terrorism is the goddamn excuse to send these kids to die for corporate America's greed at laying hands on these nations. This shit udner repukes will be here 20 years from now when these precious --oh my god, they are beautiful darlings - will have to fight. And these fucking corporations are going to these places not only for their oil but to eventually make them their goddamn workers and thus, keep my grandchildren from employment. How can these fuckers in this country keep supporting these bastards. Like I said, eventually there will be so much unemployment in America both blue and white collar that people will want to change D.C....but by then no one will be able to save this stink hole.

[Mari333]

20. yes well I have other sons too

26, 24, 22. and I have called them so they can have an escape plan.
You spend your whole life raising beautiful children, and these fascists want to take them and kill them for greed.
they already got one of ours.

[quicksilver]

23. First Timer

Mari, I have been reading in this forum for some time but have not been moved to join in until I read your post. I cannot begin to imagine what you are going through. I voted in my first election almost 40 years ago, And, until now, that is all I have done politically. Last year, I realized that I had to make an effort to stop this madness. No, I don't think I'm that powerful but felt I MUST do SOMETHING. So, I went to Iowa last fall to work for a Democratic campaign. And, the really heartening thing for me is that 9 out of 10 people who made that trip with me were also first timers, young and old alike, most feeling just like I do. In our primary, I attended caucus for the first time and became precinct chair. I just attended our county convention and I am going to the state convention this summer. If possible, I'll go to Boston in July. I've donated money, written letters, made phone calls. And I have read so much on the internet until it would all make me sick and I'd just have to shut down to keep from screaming. But I'll keep on keeping on. I can't help believing that there are many more out there just like me. It has to happen in November. I believe it will.

[Mari333]

31. (((((quick))))))))))

welcome to DU, where, if I didnt have a place to go, I would go mad and be curled up in bed with a bottle of vodka in my hand and accomplish nothing.
what great words. I want to believe that every one of us, in every way, is making small cracks in the giant wall of lies, small cracks into it. When Clarke spoke out, I saw a large hole in the wall of lies, and I pray the floodwaters come thru now.
I know the Grand Canyon took a long time for all that water trickling thru it to create it. I like to think that all our voices and work against this mafia in the WH will do something, eventually, slowly break it down and expose it, bring down the brick wall, the house of cards, I pray this will happen.
It has to. or we are all going to lose so so much more. Not just our children now to this war, but the soul of our country, and the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, and our future.

((quick))

[LZ1234]

34. My heart goes out to you and your family ...

I think about the soldiers there every day and many times during the day. I think about the all the innocent people too in Iraq and it's so heartbreaking. I'm appalled that people in our country aren't more outraged about this war. Why aren't there more protests? Or is it that the news which is dominantly Repub not covering this? My son will be 18 during the next administration and I am scared. Why aren't Bush's plans for the draft, one way or the other, being discussed in the news? I don't have a loved one in the war yet but I find it hard to go about my daily business because I'm thinking about those people directly involved in the war. I've tried shaking some sense into one of my Repub neighbors who has a son my age, but she's brainwashed into thinking Bush is good for our country and defensive on the subject of the draft.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

12. I just want to see them go down

Every freaking one of them..for the harm they've done to us and everyone. There arrogant, and to think they won't even admit anything they do is wrong. They deserve to be slammed hard!

[Q]

13. Don't listen to the optimists...but don't despair...

- We're where the German people were when they finally realized that a monster had full control of their country and there was nothing they could do about it. They simply had to go along for the ride and try to keep out of the way of the brownshirts.

- Those who tell you not to 'despair' are either new to politics or haven't studied history. In their hearts and minds they actually believe the propaganda that it could 'never happen here'. They think that a hero or 'white' knight will emerge from the crowd and save the day. That's not going to happen and they won't realize it until it's too late.

- As I said in another thread: The People Are On Their Own.

[truizm]

15. Yep..

I told a right-wing conservative "Christian" that it looks like LIHOP very well could be proven if the 9/11 commission does their job.

I asked him if he still would vote for Bush if it's proven that Bush let 9/11 happen to put the PNAC agenda into action...He said yes. And prior to this he was talking about how Smirk is such a great Christian that loves human life. Unreal and quite scary actually.

[mmonk]

16. Hang in there!

Yes, America has been getting hard to recognize anymore. Questioning the admin is verboten with many Americans. In that, we are much in a similar way Germany was in the late 30's. It is scarey and America has now crossed the Rubicon but there is still some vestiges of scepticism out there. Work hard at exposing the truth and things may turn around.

[keithyboy]

17. Live your life, be kind, show love, give mercy, do justly.

Live you life and do not allow the low-lifes of this world cuase you to be less than you are.

[BabsSong]

21. keith--that's the one thing that I decided after I cried my soul out

I have two most loving new grandbabies. I still have my 59 year old husband across the dinner table from me. I have people in my community who need help. I've been too long away from all the volunteer work I've done in the past. I will live each day by the Christianity I was born and raised with (not this Americanized fucking puke that has blasted itself across America---I'd rather die than be associated with this scum). And my husband and I have come unto a peace-----in the end we will determine when we die not the republicans.

[keithyboy]

47. That's the spirit!!!

I had to talk myself into this frame of mind. I come here to the DU to vent some frustrations and to hopefully contribute positively to the knowledge base. Nothing more.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. they were never lied to - they were winked at.

"Saddam has - wink - WMD and - here's a good one - connections to al Qaeda. God bless - nyuk nyuk - America."

They knew what Bush had to say to justify the war, and so they lapped up the talking points. But it was a shadow play. They were fooled no more than we were.

And yes, it makes me despair as well. But despair is sometimes the beginning of wisdom. And we need to admit this, so we can begin to do something to save ourselves and our world: We're in a very dark place, getting darker. And perversely, it's getting darker even as the maggotty corruption of the Cheney/Bush junta is brought to light. Because everyone can see it, and so few people care.

[kera]

22. the culture make out of cliches

Bad guy,v good guy
Kill them kill them
with us or against us

support the troops

we are the best

this is America!

Israel is our best ally it is the only democracy in the ME,

and so on and so forth

still, no body wants to go to heaven with an empty belly

[troublemaker]

24. I've lived through this process before

It's maddeningly slow. The body politik can take many months to internalize anything.

But they get it eventually about half the time. A 50-50 chance looks a whole lot better than anything we were able to expect only six months ago.

[LoZoccolo]

25. If you look at posts a year ago...

...you'll see a lot of frustration and despair, and I can't remember many people at all saying Bush* was on his way out but a couple times that people said that they economy was going to come back as an issue. Now there's a lot more hope about getting him out.

[terisel]

26. Were you too young to remember Vietnam and Watergate ?

There was no massive attack on the US then, and justice took a long, long time.

Most people never fully comprehended Iran-Contra or the Massive S&L theft and those "evil-doers" mostly got away with it.

George Bush Sr used an old obscure mining law to gave away a billion dollar goldmine out West for pennies on the dollar to a Canadian company during the last months of his presidency (and later became a consultant to the company)- the New York Times wrote a scathing editorial opposing the sale, Clinton tried hard to turn it back but couldn't -most people never noticed.

There is something different here. I see things coalescing in opposition to Bush. There are Republicans whom I thought would be rising to his defense but they are keeping silent right now.

Remember that there is an enormous paper trail and that there are many people in government, insiders, who know what has happened. Richard Clarke is a credible source to many people in government and in the press.
They know that if there was no truth to what he was saying, Bush would simply ignore him.

Personally I see a desperate White House. I think many aides in the White House who are not personally implicated know the game is up and are talking to the press.

People who know the truth or parts of it are being blocked right now-threatened with prosecution for revealing classified information if they speak out or release the evidence-even people on the commission. But the truth is there-it doesn't need to be ferreted out, only released.

The media bias is making important occurrences seem trivial at the moment-but this is a dam that cannot hold. Media like Fox News can control what their viewers see and hear but not what the insiders know.

The fact that Senator Rockefeller has just admitted his war vote was a mistake is huge-he is admitting he sent his constituents to their deaths for insufficient reason. It is probably not being widely reported but people in his state will be taking notice.

Iraq is about to devolve into a civil war-an Ayatollah is rising up-a reminder of Iran and the takeover by Ayatollah Khomeini.

We know that Bush is planning the trial of Saddam Hussein and the capture of bin Laden but those events will not be enough. The trial of Saddam Hussein will bring up his past connection with Bush Sr and Rumsfeld; the capture of bin Laden will have to happen sooner than Bush wanted-and Bush will either have to admit that his capture is meaningless in terms of making us safer or will have to declare the best reason for his continuance in office-the war presidency-no longer exists.

I think there are 2 worries. 1.The Bush inner circle may make some desperate moves. That was a worry with Nixon too. 2. The Supreme Court justices WHO put him in office will make some foolish unconstitutional moves to protect him.

[libbygurl]

27. If #1 or #2 happen...

...don't you think a civil war of sorts may erupt? I think there is mounting outrage over the continued lies (among so many crimes), but you're right about the media still being controlled by Bush friends.

By the way, very cogent summary, thanks.

[terisel]

39. Thanks. I think if #1 or 2 happen we need to demonstrate

forcefully but it will have to be peaceful. (People should probably get training ahead of time in non-violent techniques. I am sure there are or will be sessions offered around the country in the lead-up to the conventions).
The Bush people will want to foment violence to scare the rest of the population and then use it as an opening for martial law.

I don't know about a civil war or how it would work. They seem to have all the power militarily.(scary thought). I do think we have been experiencing a concerted effort to take over the country ever since Newt Gingrich days and I think a lot of it is based on the right's fear of what they consider to be "white people" becoming a minority.

The Bush people (neocons and inner circle) will have priorities set on how they want to survive this current crisis. Their 1st priority will be total suppression of the facts and winning or getting re-selected in November. Their 2nd priority, if they can't manage the first, will be to escape punishment and hang on to their ill-gotten gains or personal fortunes.

I've been wondering what Bush Sr. has been doing in all this. I've haven't a clue as to whether he is advising GW and Cheney or whether GW has pushed him away.

Bush Sr. has an incredible "resume." I thik he is a chameleon and no on really knows him. If I recall correctly he was an oil industry player, possibly a CIA operative, a congressman, Ambassador to the UN, head of the CIA, head of the Republican Party (who told Nixon when it was time to resign), vice-president, president who appointed Dick Cheney Secretary of Defense and pardoned Iran-Contra players and had Ted Starr as his Solicitor General, a player in the military-industrial complex through Carlyle and other businesses. Father of a troubled child whom he helped become president.

He has to be either advising his son or advising others how to deal with his son. Certainly he knows exactly what happened and what will be GW's best chance of escaping any penalty.

[BabsSong]

30. terisel--I'm 59--that was all my era

But it's not the same now. We have a total republican government that has no interest in sinking Bush. We have a media who goes out and assassinates any messenger that presents facts from inside the White House. We have the Christian Right that took over the country and is preaching the 'vote' from the pulpit. And you are talking about Rockefeller's apology for the vote---go out and ask the Neanderthals if they even heard the name, much less the nuiances of his debate on his vote. And you belive that Saddam's trial will bring out all these connections with Bush Sr. and before Nov. elections??--come on, this isn't Court TV----for Christ's sake OJ got away with it. Do you think this will be about connections with Bush?? Ain't gonna happen. This isn't the past. It's vastly different. When I heard, while watching a golf tournament, that coming up we have Fear Factor Bikini Broads, Fear Factor Ms. USA or some shit, Fear Factor Family, Fear Factor something else, blah blah -- I realized that this is the shit they eat up. They should be into "Fear Factor--Your Lives are about to be Fucked". Now that would be a good one. But the assholes wouldn't understand it unless the President was eathing worms.

[terisel]

45. No I think Bush was counting on the Saddam trial to make

Bush look successful-but it will not have that effect now--especially since Iraq is in turmoil. The economy is not going to make an appreciable recovery before November-unfortunately for a lot of us it may get worse. Bush can't run on the economy and by November he will not look like a very good war president.

I stopped watching television a long time ago. It is demoralizing. I agree that some people will never wake up, will watch the fake news, will trot off to the fake Christian Churches to listen to a pinky-ringed preacher teach hate--I don't expect them to change.They have basically become like cult members.They have dulled their brains to achieve a sense of belonging. However I am seeing a lot of other people changing their minds and hearing them voice their doubts.

While it may take a majority of electoral votes to get in power, it only takes a minority to convince that majority how to vote-but that cuts two ways.

The Republican right got where it is not because they were a majority but because they were an aggressive and opportunistic minority. I am definitely concerned about their taking over so many state legislatures and there slimy re-districting conspiracies.

In the 1960s I lived in a community in NYC where the ultra right wing John Birch Society was becoming a dominant political force. They did all the ugly things the far right does today. These movements don't die out-they ebb and flow and there is always the danger of a complete takeover.

I agree that we are in danger-but I am more hopeful now than I was a year ago. A year ago Condolezza Rice told her lie about "no one could have known" about 9/11 and she got away with it. Last week she backed down on that statement-wants to retract.

I know we have been on the defensive a long time, but I believe that the momentum is now with us-we are that aggressive minority-and that it is time to start acting like winners.

[jbm]

29. all other things being equal...

I'll always believe that the universe trends towards the good. Our concern needs to be focused on making sure that the 'all other things being equal'part gets to happen,and I think we're doing that. Liberal talk radio and liberal books will help to offset the Rush/FOX stuff,the voting issues are being tackled,and I'm hoping we can offset some of their money with sources of our own. The 'trend towards the good' has never let me down on an even playing field. Don't worry about the people-just keep an eye on the details.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

32. I agree

I have some Republican friends who told me last fall that they don't care if Iraq didn't have anything to do with Sept. 11, that bombing Iraq was REVENGE for 9/11, that it made them FEEL BETTER about 9/11.

Yep, sick stuff.

But it's not going to keep me from manning all those voter registration tables this spring, summer and fall. It's not going to keep me from supporting John Kerry and working for change.

Have a good cry. Scream, shout and punch your pillow. Then if you feel so inclined, get out there and get to work.

[BabsSong]

33. This is BabsSong again---the one thing that keeps me going

..the one thing that keeps me going was watching the various candidates and their campaign stops across the nation. It's so good to see that I have millions of soul mates out there. It was so good to see that I'm not alone as the media has tried to make us believe -- from the getgo they said we were lunactic fringe as they snickered at us. I saw US in the anti-war protests and I saw US at campaign stops and cheering at debates. There are a lot of us. And that's why we blew the repuke minds with the number who showed up in the primaries where nobody shows up. I have to go to bed now because I'm so very tired. But those people keep me going. Be it campaign stops of John Kerry or Howard Dean or even Joe Lieberman, I saw that I am not alone. I WANT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO TELL US ACROSS THIS LAND THAT WE ARE NOT ALONE---that's the message this nation has to hear.

[Mari333]

35. One thing I remember about Vietnam.

the journalists covered it. They showed the dying, the dead, the wounded, the napalmed. Thats not happening now, the US public is seeing nothing.
As Clarke said, it takes body bags to wake people up.
we arent seeing anything , only those of us who search for it see whats going on.
and the US public stays asleep, and they dont care, because they dont see the truth, or the real pictures of the dead and wounded from both sides.

[BabsSong]

38. Mari--you know what is so ironic??

Back then tv was "Leave it to Beaver" type shows. No violence. And yet, our media showed death up close and personal in Nam. Do you remember that every night we had the tapes on the evening news. The clips of the terrible fights. The dead bodies. The "shooting the guy in the head" tape, etc. Now we have a society of "can't get enough blood and guts". We have every piece of violence imaginable at our finger tips. We have programs devoted to dead bodies and all kinds of "fear factors". Death, violence, dead decaying bodies, real crime stories, glorification of criminals is our every day fare. BUT BUT BUT...we have seen fucking nothing of the reality of our new Nam--Iraq. Where are the headless bodies; the stacks of the dead; mutilated children; homeless; stench and fear that we saw in our living rooms in Nam??? What shit---they dare tell us that we are not seeing it because it might "offend". Their programming offends and so they make more of it. Let's see the truth you corporate dick sucking bastards!

[Mari333]

43. I called and got on C Span one morning and mentioned that

and the pundit on the show, some guy who wrote a book about the soldiers in Iraq, just said "well, the families of the dead soldiers dont want the caskets to be shown".
he didnt answer me. Luckily, Brian Lamb re iterated the website I gave him http://www.mfso.org and said it twice, and I mentioned PNAC on C Span too including their website and agenda..told them some soldiers mothers in Iraq are a hell of a lot more savvy then the media is.
Oh well, they keep on covering it all up.
Im tired of being the journalist, tired of doing the research, tired of giving out information to the media, which is ignored, tired of exposing everything, and wondering where the journalists and camera people are and wondering why the press is on lockdown. Im tired but tomorrow Ill wake up, have coffee, and keep fighting. I have to get that kid home.

[terisel]

46. When I listen to you I get ashamed that I am not doing enough

Thanks.

[kentuck]

40. We need to take the media away from the propagandists.

that do not have the best interest of our country at heart. Work the media.

[9215]

41. On a positive note

When/if this country turns into Mad Max I will always feel satisfied that the ignorant shit-for-brains sheep who worked so hard to make it that way will get what they deserve.

For those of us who worked to prevent it, well, they will be out of their misery.

[Oddman]

42. It boggles my mind.

I am still incredulous that despite all that has happened and all that has been revealed this week alone bu$h's numbers are going up.

How many lies and how much corruption does it take for people to wake up? Almost 600 soldiers have died because of lies . . .

Some of the bu$h failures -

1. Cut the Veteran’s Administration budget by $25 billion as he began his war in Iraq.
2. Reneged on a promise to increase funding for education and failed to fund the so-called “No Child Left Behind” Act.
3. Promised $15 billion in AIDS funding for Africa in 2003 State of the Union Address then – oops – left it out of the budget submitted a few weeks later.
4. In May 2001, Bush gave $43 Million to the Taliban.
5. Repealed the Alternative Minimum Tax for corporations, which was enacted in 1987, and REFUNDED all taxes paid,
by corporations under the AMT since its inception.
6. Won’t reveal who participated in Cheney’s energy policy meetings.
7. Opposed affirmative action at Michigan State in the Supreme Court case.
8. Charles Pickering, Pricilla Owens, Miguel Estrada. Packing the courts with extremists.
9. Appointed Elliott Abrams, who was convicted during Reagan administration in Iran-Contra, to the National Security Council.
10. Sealed documents from the Reagan and Bush administrations that would have revealed illegal dealings in Iran-Contra.
11. Cut federal spending on libraries by $39 million.
12. Cut $35 million in funding for doctors to get advanced pediatric training.
13. Cut by 50% funding for research into renewable energy sources.
14. Revoked rules that reduced the acceptable levels of arsenic in drinking water.
15. Blocked rules that would require federal agencies to offer bilingual assistance to non-English speaking persons.
This, from a candidate who would readily fire-up his Spanish-speaking skills in front of would-be Hispanic voters.
16. Proposed to eliminate new marine protections for the Channel Islands and the coral reefs of northwest Hawaii (San Francisco Chronicle, April 6, 2001).
17. Cut funding by 28% for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks.
18. Suspended rules that would have strengthened the government's ability to deny contracts to companies that violated workplace safety,
environmental and other federal laws.
19. OK'd Interior Department appointee Gale Norton to send out letters to state officials soliciting suggestions for opening up national monuments
for oil and gas drilling, coal mining, and foresting.
20. Appointed John Negroponte - an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure to the post of United Nations Ambassador.
21. Abandoned a campaign pledge to invest $100 million for rain forest conservation.
22. Reduced by 86% the Community Access Program for public hospitals, clinics and providers of care for people without insurance.
23. Rescinded a proposal to increase public access to information about the potential consequences resulting from chemical plant accidents.
24. Suspended rules that would require hard rock miners to clean up sites on Western public lands.
25. Cut $60 million from a Boy's and Girl's Clubs of America program for public housing.
26. Proposed to eliminate a federal program, designed and successfully used in Seattle, to help communities prepare for natural disasters.
27. Pulled out of the 1997 Kyoto Treaty global warming agreement.
28. Cut $200 million of work force training for dislocated workers.
29. Eliminated funding for the Wetlands Reserve Program, which encourages farmers to maintain wetlands habitat on their property.
30. Cut program to provide childcare to low-income families as they move from welfare to work.
31. Cut a program that provided prescription contraceptive coverage to federal employees (though it still pays for Viagra).
32. Cut $700 million in capital funds for repairs in public housing.
33. Appointed Otto Reich - an un-indicted high-level Iran Contra figure - to Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs.
34. Cut Environmental Protection Agency budget by $500 million.
35. Proposed to curtail the ability of groups to sue in order to get an animal placed on the Endangered Species List.
36. Rescinded the rule that mandated increased energy-saving efficiency regulations for central air conditioners and heat pumps.
37. Repealed workplace ergonomic rules designed to improve worker health and safety.
38. Abandoned campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide, the waste gas that contributes to global warming.
39. Banned federal aid to international family planning programs that offer abortion counseling with other independent funds.
40. Closed White House Office for Women's Health Initiatives and Outreach.
41. Nominated David Lauriski - ex-mining company executive - to post of Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health.
42. OK'd Interior Secretary Gale Norton to go forth with a controversial plan to auction oil and gas development tracts off the coast of eastern Florida.
43. Announced intention to open up Montana's Lewis and Clark National Forest to oil and drilling.
44. Proposes to re-draw boundaries of nation's monuments, which would technically allow oil and gas drilling "outside" of national monuments.
45. Gutted White House AIDS Office.
46. Renegotiating free trade agreement with Jordan to eliminate worker’s rights and safeguards for the environment.
47. Will no longer seek guidance from The American Bar Association in recommendations for the federal judiciary appointments.
48. Appointed recycling foe Lynn Scarlett as Undersecretary of the Interior.
49. Took steps to abolish the White House Council on Environmental Quality.
50. Cut the Community Oriented Policing Services program.
51. Allowed Interior Secretary Gale Norton to shelve citizen-led grizzly bear re-introduction plan scheduled for Idaho and Montana wilderness.
52. Continues to hold up federal funding for stem cell research projects.
53. Makes sure convicted misdemeanor drug users cannot get financial aid for college, though convicted murderers can.
54. Refused to fund continued cleanup of uranium-slag heap in Utah.
55. Refused to fund continued litigation of the government's tobacco company lawsuit.
56. Proposed a $2 trillion tax cut, of which 43% will go to the wealthiest 1% of Americans.
57. Signed a bill making it harder for poor and middle-class Americans to file for bankruptcy, even in the case of daunting medical bills.
58. Appointed a Vice President quoted as saying "If you want to do something about carbon dioxide emissions, then you ought to build
nuclear power plants." (Vice President %@!#$& Cheney on "Meet the Press.")
59. Appointed Diana "There is no gender gap in pay" Roth to the Council of Economic Advisers. (Boston Globe, March 28, 2001.)
60. Appointed Kay Cole James - an opponent of affirmative action - to direct the Office of Personnel Management.
61. Cut $15.7 million earmarked for states to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect.
62. Helped kill a law designed to make it tougher for teenagers to get credit cards.
63. Proposed elimination of the "Reading is Fundamental" program that gives free books to poor children.
64. Is pushing for development of small nuclear arm to attack deeply buried targets and weapons, which would violate the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.
65. Proposes to nominate Jeffrey Sutton - attorney responsible for the recent case weakening the Americans with Disabilities Act - to federal appeals court judgeship.
66. Proposes to reverse regulation protecting 60 million acres of national forest from logging and road building.
67. Eliminated funding for the "We the People" education program, which taught School children about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and citizenship.
68. Appointed John Bolton - who opposes nonproliferation treaties and the U.N. - to Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.
69. Nominated Linda Fisher - an executive with Monsanto - for the number-two job at the Environmental Protection Agency.
70. Nominated Michael McConnell - leading critic of the separation of church and state - to a federal judgeship.
71. Nominated Terrence Boyle - ardent opponent of civil rights - to a federal judgeship.
72. Canceled 2004 deadline for automakers to develop prototype high mileage cars.
73. Nominated Harvey Pitts - lawyer for teen sex video distributor - to head SEC.
74. Nominated John Walters - strong opponent of prison drug treatment programs - for Drug Czar. (Washington Post, May 16, 2001.)
75. Nominated J. Steven Giles - an oil and coal lobbyist - for Deputy Secretary of the Interior.
76. Nominated Bennett Raley - who advocates repealing the Endangered Species Act - for Assistant Secretary for Water and Science.
77. Is seeking the dismissal of class-action lawsuit filed in the U.S. against Japan by Asian women forced to work as sex slaves during WWII.
78. Earmarked $4 million in new federal grant money for HIV and drug abuse prevention programs to go only to religious groups and not secular equivalents.
79. Reduced by 40% the Low Income Home Assistance Program for low-income individuals who need assistance paying energy bills.
80. Nominated Ted Olson - who has repeatedly lied about his involvement with the Scaiffe-funded "Arkansas Project" to bring down Bill Clinton - for Solicitor General.
81. Proposes to ease permit process - including environmental considerations - for refinery, nuclear and hydroelectric dam construction. (W Post, May 18, 2001.)
82. Proposes to give government the authority to take private property through eminent domain for power lines.
83. Proposes that $1.2 billion in funding for alternative renewable energy come from selling oil and gas lease tracts in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve.
84. Appoints Army Secretary Thomas White who is being investigated for selling Enron stock just before Enron posted losses. White was a
former Enron executive who is alleged to have dumped his stock after being contacted by an Enron official.
85. Took 3 months of vacation of first 9 months in office as president.
86. Had absolutely no concern about terrorism before 9-11.
87. Many of his big campaign supporters are crooks who doctored their books in order to screw investors.
88. Wants to fulfill a personal vendetta against Hussein causing a huge and costly war with destabilization of the Middle East and Russia
and China siding with the Arabs.
89. Wants to kill minimum wage and its enforcement so that people work at slave wages for his corporate supporters.
90. Wants to take away benefits from the elderly and children in order to compensate for giant tax cuts for super rich.
91. Gave the Taliban 38 million in May, 2001 so that they would allow pipelines for his buddies at Enron.
92. Wants to create the most polluted country on earth by eliminating anti-pollution laws so that his super rich factory owner supporters can get richer.
93. Exploiting 911 families to justify NMD/SDI. Nuclear deterrence is still working against China, Pakistan's Islamic dictatorship, and all 7 Rogue states.
It worked in Gulf War 1 against Saddam; has worked since 1991 and will continue to work indefinitely just like N. Korea since 1953.
94. Pushed for USA Patriot Act.
95. Creation of Deptartment of Homeland Security. During Hitler's reign, Germany was protected by the HSA, the Reichshauptsicherheitamt,
which roughly translates into "Main Office of Homeland Security."
96. Exploited 911 families' pain & suffering in order to justify naked aggression against Saddam's conventional and pathetic military forces even
though they're still contained within Iraq. Gulf War2 = Pearl Harbor2 = Schlieffen Plan2 = Barbarossa2.
97. Bush tried to appoint Henry Kissinger as head of the September 11 commission.
98. Used Homeland Security Act to protect Eli Lilly from autism suits.
99. Gave $95 million to North Korea for nuclear program and waived the part of the agreement that required inspections to ensure no weapons grade
plutonium had been hidden away.
100. Abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty while squandering billions in chasing the chimera of national missile defense.
101. Undermined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty while expressing support for testing new nuclear
weapons and refusing to rule out a nuclear first strike against non-nuclear nations.
102. Derailed negotiations to improve international inspection systems to monitor and prevent the production of biological and chemical weapons.
103. Repudiated an international scientific consensus and withdrawn from global efforts to curb global warming.
104. Renounced the U.S. signature on the treaty to create an International Criminal Court and campaigned aggressively to exempt all U.S.
personnel from its jurisdiction, even threatening to veto UN peacekeeping operations if it does not get its way.
105. Dismissed the need for broad international cooperation in its war on terrorism, preferring to act alone or with selected allies.
106. Treated human rights as an obstacle to rather than an essential component of civic security at home and abroad.
107. Undermined the Oslo peace process, condoned the Israeli reoccupation of Palestinian territory, and rejected UN Security Council resolutions supported
by previous administrations that provide a framework for conflict resolution containing strict security guarantees for both Israel and the Palestinians.
108. Slighted global efforts to mobilize an offensive against the spread of AIDS, instead privileging the financial interests of pharmaceutical companies
over the need for affordable life-saving medicines.
109. Suspended U.S. support for the UN's family planning programs and balked at supporting the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW).
110. Continued to pursue a global economic agenda that is of, by, and for transnational corporations and blocked efforts to build international rules
to enforce labor and consumer rights and environmental protections.
111. Bush team prevented thousands of eligible voters in Florida from voting. That is how the elections were stolen.
112. Bush deceives Americans about the terrorists’ motives to shield U.S. foreign policies from public scrutiny; his first concern is the special interests he serves.
113. Cynically and callously exploiting "terrorism," most of all with regard to the memory of those killed or injured in the September 11 attacks, as well as
concern for their loved ones, as a means of (1) justifying his and his administration's attacks on the Constitution and on Americans' most basic rights
and (2) diverting public attention from his absolute incompetence--and utter lack of concern--over the very real economic and financial terrorism
being visited upon millions of middle-class, working-class, and poor Americans while padding the pockets of corporations and the rich!
114. Former President Clinton requested numerous meetings with George W following the election to discuss making terrorist activities a priority
of the new administration. Finally a staff underling rudely gave Clinton a hearing. The information, which was for the President’s ears,
only was never passed on.
115. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
116. Went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard for 18 months making him ineligible to be commander-in-chief.
117. Allowed looting to continue in Baghdad and around Iraq while guarding only the oil ministry.
118. Because over 10,000 innocent civilians were murdered in Iraq and he said that counting them didn't matter.
119. Because art and antiquities were stolen from the Baghdad Museum by professional art thieves who allowed to operate and smuggle the objects
out of the country for private collectors.
120. Because hospitals were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them.
121. Because nuclear facilities were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them.
122. Because schools were looted in Iraq without the army being given any direction to protect them.
123. Because antiquities were looted from the national library without the army being given any direction to protect them.
124. Because no weapons of mass destruction - the excuse for going to war - were found.
to hear from Bush supporters on why they support him.
125. Is it his honesty?
126. Is it his ability to handle the subtleties of foreign relations, building broad, strong, burden-sharing alliances?
127. Is it his respect for the electorate?
128. Is it his ability to unite us?
129. Is it his willingness to support the cause of women?
130. Is it his inclusiveness of all people - rich and poor, straight and gay, well and poorly educated - in his plan for America?
131. Is it his careful stewardship of our national budget?
132. Is it his respect for the environment - local and world-wide?
133. What are your reasons?

"Don't make a move or chimpy gets it!"

[lostnfound]

44. Did you think it would be easy?? Maybe it's God's challenge to us..?

I know that thought is probably "too religious" for this board, but the God I am talking about is not the one that supposedly shouts to George Bush or communes with Mel Gibson, but that one that you hear softly as a whisper of a breeze, saying "there is meaning underneath all of this" or "there's a method to my madness"!!

I get as discouraged as I'm reading you do, too, sometimes. But like I tell my little boy, "Life is hard sometimes but that's WHY you are STRONG". Life is confusing but that's why you are smart.. Life is uncertain but that's why you have heart, and guts, and each other. Sometimes it seems impossible, but that's why you have faith.

This -- this crazy neocon fascist materialistic mega-power -- is the challenge for OUR generation. Resorting to Plan B would be ultimately faithless.

(It feels like we are living in a horror movie at times; I hate horror movies. But maybe someday it will be back to comedy again.)

[arewethereyet]

48. sure, heres a suggestion

you are right, the people don't care. They care about getting the kids to school on time, being a family, making ends meet somehow. Thats a full time job for most Americans.

Somebody attacks the country, OK fine go smack the shit out of whoever did it but I still need to get Sally to softball practice in 5 minutes.

You have to appeal to America where it lives with hope and prosperity and easy on the taxes. Sally's bat from last year is really too short and she really wants that $45 one but with gas through the roof how ? At least we got that tax break.

See how it works now ?

Clinton did, will Kerry ?

[terisel]

49. Here's an Aggressive Group of People Who Care

They care about their kids' education, their hispanic, and they have Karl Rove stunned , scared, and furious:

Several hundred people stormed the small yard of President Bush's chief political strategist, Karl Rove, yesterday afternoon, pounding on his windows, shoving signs at others and challenging Rove to talk to them about a bill that deals with educational opportunities for immigrants.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31890-2004Mar28.html

[rocktivity]

50. Six months ago, I would have agreed

mainly because Bush's biggest weapon was his compliant, complicit, unquestioning mass media. But then Hillary's book came out and sold a million copies. And Howard Sterned started dissing Bush to the people who need to hear it most. And Bush buckled on the 9/11 investigation. And the liberal radio network finally came into being. And the release of Michael Moore's movie moved from July to September...

Bushco wasn't built in a day. The evidence appears circumstantial, but it IS piling up, now it can keep piling up. As Kenneth and Sante Kimes would tell you, you can't ignore circumstantial evidence when there's too much of it.

:headbang:
rocknation