My seven year old wanted me to read the bible to her

[maggrwaggr]

So we started at the beginning.

There is much disturbing stuff to explain.

When we got to the story of Soddom and Gomorrah, things started to gross her out.

The two angels come to Lot, in Soddom, and the people storm the house, wanting to bring the angels out into the square to have sex with them.

We made it through that ....

But then, after the city is destroyed ....

Lot's daughters are living with him in a cave. They decide to get him drunk and have sex with him so they can get pregnant.

At this point she decided the bible was just way too "gross" and disgusting and so we jumped ahead to the New Testament.

Immediately we ran into King Herod wanting to kill all the babies. Then John the Baptist eating bugs and honey.

Then she asked me about why they give us the bread and the wine.

I started to explain the whole "this is my body broken for you. This is my blood" thing ....

She kept asking "why?" and I basically was trying to explain this ritual cannibalism without actually calling it ritual cannibalism.

Anyway, the whole experience left her pretty grossed out and I'm not sure she'll want to ever go back to the bible.

I hadn't tried to read the bible since I was about 12 or 13, and I was pretty grossed out by it too. It's more x-rated than the Star report!

To quote the repubs: "what about the children?"

How are we supposed to explain all this to kids?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. The most popular book in Western history

In the course of western civilization we've dealt with many uncomfortable, disgusting, and evil problems, and the Bible talks about a number of them.

Why would you be reading certain parts of the Bible to a 7 year old anyway? Would you let her watch a gory war movie or a porno? The Bible is a book for adults about adult problems and adult history. They have children's versions that would probably be more appropriate.

[Dem2dend]

17. I think

You might have tried any number of books that are designed to explain the Bible in terms that children can understand, slowly.
Perhaps beginning with the New Testament stories of Jesus healing.

Think of the Grimm Fairy Tales and the stories of parents abandoning kids in the forest, witches eating children, Foxes eating children, poison apples etc. the stuff that children are given to read is most amazing.

[greekspeak]

58. I agree

Lets start ingraining watered down, fair-weather religion to children. Lets give them the prettied up version of the Bible, then they can hear from the ADULT Bible when they are in services and the minister is lambasting the crowd with bible verses from the ADULT bible. I do not know how it goes in the fundimentalist churches from week to week, but even in the Methodist church they made sure the children knew what happened to the "bad guys" in the Bible.

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Somehow

Millions and millions of people have read it unscathed -- even as children.

[wuushew]

3. This thread is not helping the current glut of religion threads in GD

I predict an acrimonious decent into a flamewar

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. One, two, three, four

I declare a flame war.

(Sorry, trying to lighten things up so both sides don't go at it here as well.)

[mmm]

5. Good post

I agree. It's only a book.
Next time try the Dhamapada.

[theboss]

6. Sunday School exists for a reason

If you sit down and read the Bible from start to finish, your head is going to explode. It would be like reading the US Code from Page 1. There has to be a structure and an understanding of the time period discussed and the time period it was written.

I think Sodom and Gomorrah is way too "adult" a topic for a seven-year-old to deal with. Would you discuss "Lawrence v. Texas" with her too?

[Walt Starr]

32. Most miss the point of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah

The sin of Sodom was not sexual in nature. The sin of Sodom was inhospitality.

Lots of people miss that allegory.

[cprise]

7. S&G wan't about sex

It was about vigilantes attacking strangers for out of town.

[TlalocW]

18. Agreed

Normally the passage that sets off the alarm in homophobes is something along the lines of "Bring them out so we may have relations with them" or "Bring them out so we may know them." Both of which homophobes take for wanting to have sex, but the word these translations come from is closer to talk or get to know. So I always picture a bunch of Caanites outside Lot's house saying, "Bring them out so we can... 'talk' with them," while they chuckle softly and pound their fists into their open hands.

TlalocW

[Ozirus]

23. So a Sodomite is someone who ...

just wants to beat somebody up? Your kidding right? S&G was about sex. Look up the definition of sodomy and sodomite.

- Ozirus -

[StandWatie]

29. come again?

He's exactly right, the sex angle was created by shabby translation, the issue there was really idolatry.

[Character Assassin]

50. The real issue was lack of hospitality and the meanness of the people....

http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/sodom.html

[greekspeak]

59. Get real!

What a world this would be if the meaning of words in the dictionary affected words written millenia years ago. I mean, the dictionary says sodomy is gay sex. So that is what it meant 3000 years ago. What? Our word "sodomy" derives from a horribly mangled understanding of the Sodom narrative.

[StandWatie]

25. in the hebrew..

the word used is "yada" which almost always means "get to know" in the usual sense of the word.

In the rest of the hebrew text almost always when they refer to sex it's "shakab" and the word translated as men is actually a hebrew word that refers to people of indefinite gender (as in they knew there were strangers in there but didn't know if they were men or women)

[Thor_MN]

64. Anyone know if

there have been any modern translations, free of interference from groups with agendas?

[Yupster]

41. The book of Judges

has a very similar story, but in that case a servant is raped to death. No, I don't think "know them," in a biblical way meant talk to them.

[RobertSeattle]

8. Interesting

I've often wondered what it would be like to read the Bible from a child's point of view without all the cultural and church biases that many Church going children are raised with. I'm sure an intelligent being who has never read the Bible would find the Bible very peculiar. Why "god" needs to speak to us through this incredibly obtuse book is beyond me.

[Droopy]

9. Well, well

Why can't we just let it go? This thread doesn't have anything to do with politics.

I guess people just like flame wars. That's the only explanation for this type of thread.

[Nazgul35]

75. considering that this is posted in the...

general topics section...I think your complaint is unwarrented....

If you want political discussion go to the politics board....

And if you think this is a flame war....were have you been?!

[damnraddem]

10. I suggest several weeks of violent cartoons, then come back to the Bible.

Your kid may be ready by then. If not, maybe some M-rated PC games will get her into the mood. GTAIII might do the trick.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. Would you read Seutonius to a little kid?

With all the stories of violent rape, murder, war? Clearly, many books in the Bible are not appropriate for little kids. Try a children't version.

[maggrwaggr]

12. interesting feedback

My memory of the old testament is pretty shaky.

She just wanted to read it. I figured the fundie members of my family who bought that bible for me, and who encourage me to expose the kids to christianity would be overjoyed.

She also wanted to just start at the beginning.

I had no idea there was incest in there. I really didn't.

I knew the story of Soddom and Gomorrah but I didn't know the people wanted to drag the angels out of the house and have sex with them.

I guess I was as shocked as she was.

I remember a Jewish friend describing Christianity as "bloody" and "creepy" and having been a buddhist for the past several years I guess I'd forgotten myself.

I was surprised what a mess the whole thing seems. Especially when she starts asking me about why the Jews and the Christians think different, but why they both use the old testament, why since Jesus was a Jew the Jews don't believe him etc. etc. etc. etc.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

16. yeah right! I think you gave yourself away

You are telling us that a "Jewish friend" described Christianity as bloody and creepy, and the example you are giving is the Jewish story of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Sure thing, maggrwaggr

[maggrwaggr]

35. LOL. It's true, sorry if you don't believe it.

I had never thought of Christianity as "bloody" or "creepy" before she said that.. When I was early teenage years, I was a total little hippie Jesus Freak (back in the early 70's to put it in context). My whole family is very christian. So I sorta took it for granted. I didn't even know any Jewish people till I moved to Los Angeles.

So when this Jewish friend described it that way, I laughed at first and then thought "it is kinda bloody".

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

42. S&G is a Jewish story, written by Jewish people

Christians may claim it as their own, but that's a false conceit :)

[aquart]

71. I wouldn't swear S&G is a "Jewish" story.

It seems to be based on Sumerian puns relating to the words for woman "munus", and salt "munu," not Hebrew or Aramaic.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. I would say you have bad judgement

You could have found much better parts of the bible to read. Kind of reminds me of the anti-choicers who tell their kids they are lucky not to have been aborted.

[shimmergal]

14. I know the problem.

When I was a kid I had a whole Bible in comic book form. Most of it was pretty interesting; lots of exotic costumes and 'action', just like any other comic.

But what really freaked me out was God's asking Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac and EVEN WORSE, the fact that Abraham was ready to do it. A story to give a kid nightmares! It's ten times worse than anything in fairy tales, because this is purported to be true.

I think you have to be very selective with the Bible stories, until
she's at an age to read it analytically. Some stories are nice.
The whole first Christmas story, with the star and shepherds and wise men bringing gifts, and friendly animals in the stable. (Leave out the part about Herod's edict and the flight to Egypt.) The baby Moses being found in the bullrushes is sweet, too. Children also like the Noah-and-the-ark story, as long as you don't dwell on the flood as God's wrath.

There are unicorns and dragons in the Bible too, and children love fantasy animals. My favorite passage on the former: Psalms 22:21
"Save me from the lion's mouth, for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns." (Naturally I, as a SF/fantasy person, start building images of unicorn horns as a sort of pre-tech radio transmitter!)

John the Baptist eating bugs and honey might not bother some kids, though. There's a cereal out now named "Bugs n Mud" (it looks like it, too.) As for communion as "ritual cannibalism, I've finally figured that out to my own satisfaction. It's a metaphor for the food chain, which seems to be an unavoidable condition of life on this earth.

But offhand, if she wants to hear Bible stories, you're probably better off reading her retellings for children. There are some good ones out there. Try the kids' depts. of bookstores or libraries, not the "Christian" bookstores where 90% of all the material is from a fundamentalist perspective.


Good luck! (Writing this as a mother of two and grandmother of five;
hope it'll help!)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

68. shimmergal, I really like your advice

I would recommend anyone who wants to introduce a child to the Bible read your post, I think it was quite informative, and I pretty much agree with everything you said.

The Bible is a rich source of western history, and I don't think you can really understand what America, and Europe, and even the middle east, is all about until you read it. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all hail from the Bible at some point. It's more relevant than the ancient Greek and Roman pagan writings for the 21 century.

Anyway, I really appreciate your advice, and while I don't have kids, so I'm probably talking out of my a**, I would still like to recommend your point of view.

[Nazgul35]

77. yes..yes...

make sure the subject is well and truely indoctrinated with happy stories that have bunnies and an old fat man in them...then when you are sure they trust you...completely rip off the veneer and expose them to their religion full blast...both barrels...

when they begin to trust Jesus...after all he is our friend..at least that's what the song said...and God...boy is he patient with thorse jewish people....tell them that they're full of sin...the god they've come to love and think of as a gradparent they never see...is disgusted by their sins and can't even look at them...in fact, we're sooooo bad...he had to send his son down and kill him, just cause we couldn't get it together....

I say teach you child about Buddism...and let her learn about Christianity in college...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

82. now redo that paragraph to attack Islam

Just change "Jesus" to "Mohammed", "God" to "Allah", suggest teaching your kid Christianity and learning Islam in college.

Post it on freerepublic, and you'll get a host of supportive replies.

[Nazgul35]

84. actually....

i'd be glad to post that for all organized religions.....

perhaps if we spent our time teaching our children to be independent, reasoning human's we'd have alot less of the nonsense going on in this world...

If you have come to your beliefs based upon careful thought and consideration then horay....but you can not honestly believe that the overwhelming members of the holy christian church, the followers of Muhammed, worshipers of the hindo gods or any other bureaucratic establishment church has reached their beliefs based upon the same path you took....

....or do you?

O8)

[Loonman]

15. Stick to the New Testament

Better for kids.

[DagmarK]

19. Teach your kid to read!!!

Let her read it herself.

And they have churches and Sunday School to explain all that stuff too.

and if she can read to some extent.......an attempt to read the bible will get her off and running to better reading comprehension.

Shoot.....why not read Song of Solomon first.....for some beautiful poetry.....???

Oh.....you know all the answers to the questions you have posed!

[JewelDigger]

20. You taught her something all right

that the bible is ugly and has gross stuff in it. And then when you said THIS part:

"I started to explain the whole "this is my body broken for you. This is my blood" thing ....

She kept asking "why?" and I basically was trying to explain this ritual cannibalism without actually calling it ritual cannibalism."

Ritual cannibalism???? You obviously don't understand the subject matter enough yourself to be able to teach it to someone else.

If your intent was to turn off your daughter's interest in the bible and blind her to the many good things/lessons that are contained in the book than I would have to say you were hugely successful.

[Warpy]

21. Your problem was the way you read it

...cover to cover, like the Bowdlerized history it is. In that way, you start to see the whole story come out in sequence, and much of it isn't pretty. Count yourself lucky she was grossed out before you got to the Song of Solomon...talk about having a lot of explaining to do!

There's a really good reason the wingnut churches all give the faithful those bible study workbooks. You see, when you go through it to pick out phrases so you can assign them verses and chapeters, you really don't get to read much of the book, itself. It's a defense mechanism.

There are great stories there, and they give a great insight into a barely developed, seminomadic tribal culture. This book is not for children, though, unless it's been throroughly santized with most of the good stuff replaced by pious pictures.

[theboss]

27. It isn't a "novel"

It's not a history book either.

Think of it this way. If you are reading the Bible to understand Christianity and you read cover to cover, you have about 800 pages (in my copy) to read before you get to Jesus. And if you are reading it to learn about Judaism, you have to skip the New Testament completely.

For Christians, the New Testament is the "meat" of the Bible. It's what are faith is based on. The Old Testament shows that what we believe was part of God's plan and part of a larger context. The place to begin for Christians is either Luke 1:1 or John 3:16 and then work from there. I mean, you can live your whole life as a faithful Christian and never really have cause to read "Numbers." And the Psalms - while beautiful - are not exactly central to the faith.

[Walt Starr]

49. The Bible is the Bible is the Bible

Unless, of course, you are talking about The Book, in which case it's The Bible for Dummies.

Seriously, there is no other way to read the Bible unles you start at Genesis and go all the way through. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[sangha]

22. What is the point of this thread?

Why are you asking How are we supposed to explain all this to kids? on DU, where about half the poster are atheists? Shouldn't you be asking this on a Christian board, or even better, shouldn't you ask someone who knows the subject?

I suspect you want to disrupt

[jagguy]

24. if she asks you about time do you break out Einstein ?

There are more helpful texts around that present the basics in a way that 7 year olds can comprehend.

Go to a bookstore, there's good help there for your seeking child.

[sangha]

26. It's irresponsible parenting

And after her sad display, she's now asking for religious advice on DU, a political board.

[AllYorBaseRBlong2USA]

30. Give her the big dirty

I think there is a tendency amoung many people to try and shelter children. These people don't give the young mind enough credit. I think the real fear of exposing the entirty of the bible is that a young inquisitive mind may ask questions that the average parrent isn't ready to answer. "why is god so mean to these people and nice to these people?" etc. etc.

I'm impressed by the open mind you are giving your child by exposing them to the good, bad, and ugly. I think there is a tendency by some to sugercoat beliefs they want thier children to adopt. By personally talking with your child about religion in the way you are you are bonding in a way most parrents aren't cappable of.

Sangha I question what exactly is sad about it. The communion canabalism refference? I think you understand it as metaphor, but is it beyond comprehention for it to be explained as ritualistic cannabalism? Your pretty quike(sp) to hand out judgement? Is this your held belief. Did the said parrent not preach hard enough??

What I read is a parrent activly talking to thier child about religion. At least the parrents own mental innadequcies in discusing such things arn't being projected on to the child through lack of serouis discussion.

Damn irresponsable parrenting. The young mind cant tollerate such dirty writing. Now shes scared for life.

[sangha]

34. It is sad

because the poster realizes that religion is a pretty complex subject and did nothing to prepare herself or her child. I would be just as harsh on someone who refused to get prenatal care.

I didn't say the child should be "sheltered" from the Bible, or from anything else, for that matter. I think children need guidance, and that their parents are the most likely source of such guidance.

And I didn't say that the young can't tolerate "dirty writing" or that the child is scarred for life. I said it irresponsible. Nothing more, and nothing less.

And even sadder is that the poster is looking for religious advice on DU. What does that tell you?

[AllYorBaseRBlong2USA]

45. It tells me that a like minded individual is looking for advice

I didn't intend to attribute bits of arguement to you when I posted but I become digusted when I see sheltering to a childs detrement. I think that people, generally, need to reanalyze how they approach children. I think children deserve more respect intellectually.

You have to understand that children grow faster now then ever before. Trust me on this.

As far as preperation? I havn't the slightest idea what would be appropraite preperation. I supose it depends on the seroiusness with which you reguard the said religion. You obvouisly would be very busy if you gave every religion equal time.

The idea that this person looks for religous guidance here only means they need help, or guidence. Judgemental criticms help no one. That is exclusive to the other party. Just where would you recomend someone go for religous guidence. Now tell her. I think if I were to come to the party of inclusion and wasnt looking to indoctrinate my child, I would ask a progressive minded person how they introduced religion to thier child.

So now I must know what you did with your child. judge and ye shall be judged, baby. What is the best way?

ps your answer has practicul application as i will hopeflly father children someday.

[jagguy]

54. when you do father that child

you will find that while 7 year olds are quite bright, there are more complex scenarios that they cannot grasp. It's fair to say that the Bible is loaded with them. It is not reasonable to think that any 7 year old can get this.

As to the comment "Judgemental criticms help no one. That is exclusive to the other party." I agree with the sentiment completely but based on a sadly large percentage of the posts here on DU, its clearly not the domain of the right, Green, Libertarian or whichever party you were referring to.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

69. please - this is copy and pasted from a pro-athiest, anti-religion site

how gullible do you think we are? I've read this same list 100 times.

What I don't understand is why atheists demand we all read the Bible like the fundies do, as if it is literal and not a mix of history, mythology, parable, drama and statistics.

I never hear athiests listing the violent and sexual episodes in ancient Greek and Roman writing - why? If someone posted about reading 12 Caesars to their eight year old, would we get the same responses?

Why are athiests always pushing a fundamentalist reading of the Bible, just like the fundies do?

Maybe that ancient Gnostic Egyptian mystic was right when he said, "each thing evokes it's opposite" - internet athiests sound like fundie christians, and have a lot in common with them.

[sangha]

76. Thank you

Reading the Bible to child without any guidance concerning it's use of metaphor, parable, symbolism, etc is the same thing as giving that child a fundamentalist education. As someone who considers fundamentalism to be a part of the biggest problem mankind faces, I thought I was being gentle in calling it "irresponsible" and "bad parenting"

Yes, young children are often far more capable then we give them credit for. My 6 year old niece amazes me sometimes. However, research and experience make it clear that there are certain types of ideas and concepts that are difficult, if not impossible, for them to grasp.

[Nazgul35]

79. ahmen!!!

:evilgrin:

and for those of you who don't want to take part...no one grabbed your hand...forced you to select this thread and made you read all of it....show some backbone and have responsibility ofr your actions!!!

If you don't like the topic...DONT READ IT!!!!!

[robbedvoter]

28. Le'mme see if I get the responses here: it's your fault!

The bible is not to be read to the kids - you are not good enough to read it yourself. You need qualified interpreters to teach you/your child (just as you need Rush Limbaugh to explain bush to you). Considering that at least some Christians trying to impose the bible on us consider that it is the source of the law, morality, power and all that's good, these are quite astounding statements.
Timeo hominem unium libri - I fear the one book people.

[theboss]

31. Come off it . . .

I'm sure you give Nietzche to eight year olds all the time and expect them to understand it.

[greekspeak]

60. Yeah

But do they cram Nietzsche down your throat every Sunday morning?

[theboss]

72. The Church Police

I don't know about you but I watch the "Sports Reporters," "Outside the Lines" and "This Week" every Sunday morning. Who is attacking you with a Bible?

[Breezy du Nord]

33. I read a children's bible, so it was toned down a little

Of course, that Bible just had the bare necessities and lots of pretty pictures. But oh well, I'm now an agnostic anyway, so who cares?

[Walt Starr]

43. I had a children's bible as a child

I read the real thing when I was a child too.

Age twelve, Genesis to Revelation, read the entire thing.

Yep, it's bloody, gory, messy, incestuous, adulterous, murderous and lots of other adjectives.

And people wonder why Western society is so messed up.

To paraphrase Ghandi, I think Western Civilization would be a good idea.

[Character Assassin]

86. That's pretty rich

To paraphrase Ghandi, I think Western Civilization would be a good idea.

Seeing as India has a history awash in violence, blood and oppression, that's a rather ironic thing for him to have said.

[TrogL]

36. If she asks, it's time

no point in toning it down or "interpreting" it.

It says what it says.

Be that as it may, you have to understand howit says it - with frequent use of allegory, poetry and some shockingly bad puns that don't translate well into English.

What Bible were you using?

While the KJV has its problems, a good annotated KJV is a good start. If you can't find one, find a Greek concordance.

[HFishbine]

37. A good opportunity

to teach the meaning of metaphor. Will help her better understand literature in general and the Bible specifically.

[markus]

38. I Hate Noah

My mother-in-law has this thing for Noah, which I think is one of the worst stories in the bible. She kepy buying books, toys, etc.

I mean, if the Big Fella of the Old Testament as really No. 1 couldn't he figure out some better solution than killing off everyone?

I think that the unexpurgiated Bible is not suitable for children.

[Dem2dend]

40. The Bible reminds me of

the last episode of Seinfeld, I call it the "judgement Day" episode.
Everything they did came back all at once and they were judged for it.
I have a feeling we'll all have to deal with that one day.

[Nazgul35]

80. That.....and the fact...

that the story of Noah was ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which was around at the time Abraham was born and raise in the mesopotamia region...and would have been very aware of the story...

[dfong63]

39. first teach them this

How are we supposed to explain all this to kids?

some things in life can't be explained.

[JNelson6563]

44. intersting topic

The fact of the matter is is that the bible is a violent and horrifying book. There is little enlightenment to be found in it. It saddens me to see so many criticizing you for not properly spinning the content.

Children are not stupid. Just as I was coming to some conclusions on religion and the bible, I was still doing the religion thing with my own kids. I read to them from a children's bible, you know, softened up for their tender sensibilities. We read about Joshua's adventures and, even in this toned down version, my daughter recongnized the plain facts, she says "that doesn't sound like God's people to me!" Obviously she couldn't comprehend conquering a city and slaying all its inhabitants in any version, as ENLIGHTENED or LOVING.

I think it is wise for you to let your kids know what the bible really is about. Then, if they choose to believe, they won't have a problem with it when they find out later in life--and then waste countless hours reconciling it all with their image of an all-loving, all-knowing omnipotent being.

Julie--who wishes she'd known the real content ages ago

[Yupster]

46. I'd suggest some parables of the New Testament

The Prodigal Son would be a good one.

The parable of the talents to the three servants is thought provoking.

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a wonderful story.

Yeah, my 6 year old's Sunday school class teaches a different story each week, and I don't think he's gotten to raping angels yet.

[TSElliott]

47. When your daughter wants to learn about other

religions will you use the same method? Since you are a Buddhist if your daughter has questions about your beliefs will you tell the story of Siddharta Gautama without explaining the context of the situation? Religion can be extremely hard to teach and although most parents want to be the teacher it may be best to have an expert present.

I was extremely lucky when I was younger and wanted to learn about the Bible, my father who is Jewish asked the Rabbi to come over for dinner and I was given full access to his knowledge and wisdom, when I wanted to learn about Christianity my father invited a patient of his who was the pastor of a local church to dinner and I was given the same access. Unfortunately my father did not have access to a Buddhist Monk or a Muslim Cleric whom he trusted to teach me so he bought me books on the religions and let me attend different religious services with family friends. I studied different religions for many years before I realized what I was and when I told my father he was proud of my decision because he knew how much time and effort I put into my decision.

[Walt Starr]

57. I have a different approach on teaching religion

It's called Comparitive Mythology.

[dofus]

48. I was raised Catholic and so of course had never

read the Bible. And I'd stopped believing in what the Catholic Church -- or any monotheistic religion -- wanted me to believe by the time I was 13. At about age 28 I decided to try it, and all of Genesis simply read like science fiction to me. Incredible stuff!

For those of you who are horrified at the prospect of starting at the beginning and reading all the way through, I have to ask, how in the world is it supposed to be read? And how are we to know exactly what sequence to follow? And why isn't it printed that way?

The very same people who want to ban Harry Potter and other books, somehow miss all the violence, incest, sex, and so on that's in the Bible. It's right there, folks.

Another thing. Reading the Bible encourages a short attention span. There's no sustained narrative. And lots of plot flaws and holes. If it were written today, it would never be published.

[grasswire]

51. there are plenty of children's bibles....

...that would have made more sense to her. I can't imagine a child sitting through more than a couple of chapters of Genesis.

How would you teach a child about Islam? By reading the Koran front to back? I don't think so.

And, of course, a parent will certainly want to inform the child about the world's religions and atheism without presuming to put a thumb on the scale of any one philosophy. Yes?

[Yupster]

53. Dofus - I would ask you to consider the Bible

if you were comparing it to literature, compare it to a collection of short stories, even better, short stories transcribed from oral stories told through many generations. Most of the stories were retold for hundreds of years before they were written down.

In the Book of Daniel for instance, there are obviously at least two different authors. One tells his story, then the other goes back to the beginning and tells his story. Then back again. If you read it front to back, you won't know where you are as one story would end and then go back hundreds of years to the beginning again without any chapter headings or other guidence.

I would disagree that the Bible teaches short attention spans. On the contrary, one of the challenges is remembering where similar stories were told in other parts of the book.

Just as one example, people earlier were discussing Sodom and Gemorrhah. When you get to the book of Judges you will find a very similar story to compare it to. Remembering the similarities and differences between the two situations and stories may be a challenge, but I sure wouldn't want a short attenton span while I was doing it.

Staying with the Book of Judges, the Israelites are told to conquer the Holy Land and smite the cursed inhabitants. Good luck trying to remember why all the different "ites" groups were cursed if you have a short attention span.

[Liberator_Rev]

52. My advice is stick to the GOSPELS.

After 66 years as a devout Christian & 40 as an ordained clergyman, I would recommend that you study the GOSPELS first, and read other parts much later. The Bible isn't really a book, it's a collection of very different kinds of books. For centuries questions have been raised about Paul and his Epistles. Although there are some wonderful passages in Paul, over all his impact may have been more negative than positive.
The Fundies LOVE Paul, and quote HIM much more than Jesus.
See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/PaulvsAll vs.
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/feminism
&
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/ForSalvation

[dofus]

55. What I'm amazed by

is the notion that the Bible is NOT to be read from the beginning straight through. Why not? Why isn't it published in the format it's intended to be read in? I read collections of short stories straight through for the most part. Also novels and works of non-fiction. What am I missing here?

And the notion that the Bible is not to be read by children, other than in a very abridged version....do I detect a little bit of hypocrisy here?

If the Bible is the word of god, intended for all time, yadda yadda yadda, then why abridge it?

And I refer back to my original criticisms, that it encourages a short attention span, lacks on overall cohesiveness, and is essentially a work of fiction. Parts are boring, parts are full of violence and sex, and parts are incomprehensible.

Fie on those who say it's all true.

Of course, I do realize that the vast majority of people on this forum don't say that last, that it's all true, but still, the idea that you shouldn't just start at the beginning and read all the way through -- HOW IN THE WORLD IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO READ IT?

(rant mode ended)

[jagguy]

56. you're right of course

it is a book and should be read through. You'll miss the context of what happens in the New Testament if you bypass the Old among many reasons.

But you don't read 'Ulysses' to a seven year old, would not/could not comprehend it. Bible is no different. Abbridged versions that capture digestible elements is only appropriate for kids.

[shimmergal]

74. Short story collections don't have to be read straight through.

And in a lot of ways that's what the Bible is. A committee--or several--decided what goes in and what stays out--and what order to put them in.

True, the Bible is arranged more-or-less chronologically, but there are many other ways it can be understood equally well, or better.
Thematically, for one.

I don't think of it exactly as "the word of god, intended for all time", at least not if this means it's the ONLY word of "God."
I view it mostly as the story of the evolution of the idea of God in one or two (Christian and Jewish) cultures. These ideas are still evolving...which is all to the good.

[Space Cadet]

61. what the hell is wrong

only on this web site would someone actually compare the Star Report with the Bible. What in the world is wrong with you?

[jsw_81]

63. Bible vs. Starr Report

The bible is filled with literally hundreds of stories that include mass murder, rape, torture, slavery and incest. And that's just the Old Testament. How this disgusting book of horror came to be known as the 'good book' is beyond me.

[midnitemoleman]

62. It's called Sunday School for a start.

Or of course it could be the teacher teaching her did not have their
heart into it. My kids can read the Bible and explain it with no problem. They are 7 & 8, so unless you are over dramtizing it some thing is wrong.

[goforit]

65. Ahh just tell her that the Pres. reads a different Bible.....

The Scottish Bible!!!

Forget about the King James.

[okieinpain]

66. hey the bible has some of the best stories int he world. I use to smoke a

joint and read it. especially revelations.

[rusk2003]

67. Perhaps you could read other stories or buy a Children's Bible

Perhaps you could tell them stories of Adam and Eve,Moses & the Jews, Jesus's Birth death on the cross and rising from the tom,
King David, The good samartian,and othes Best think to do is ask your

Pastor,Priest,Rev,Minister,Rabbi,a Nun or Monk, Sunday School teacher if you have one.

Just afew idead my grandmother always told be stories from the bible when I was that age.

[mitchum]

70. It's really hard to beat it for luridness

It's like a Tennessee Williams work with beards

[maggrwaggr]

73. Wow. I've really enjoyed reading these responses to my post

And it exemplifies what I really love about DU -- the range of opinions is very extreme, but people usually manage to remain civil and not just start yelling insults at each other.

Usually. To me, this has been a great example of the best of DU.

Sorry to those who thought it should be about politics on this board.

To those who think I'm a bad parent, well, to each his own. I feel I'm a pretty good parent, and I don't like to sugarcoat things too much for this particularly smart 7 year old. I like to tell her the truth, as long as it's about stuff she can comprehend. Of course being 7 she really doesn't comprehend why two people would want to have sex, although she understands that's how babies are made (she has a new little brother).

I guess I was as shocked as she was by what was in the bible. I honestly didn't remember it being so lurid. I think perhaps when I was a kid I did read those children's stories in Sunday school.

Anyway, a lot of great advice here. We jumped ahead to the new testament (Mathew) and immediately got bogged down in the sermon on the mt. Now THAT was over her head. :)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

78. don't do it!7 is to young for abstract thought and it will traumatize

and scare the hell out of her...take it from one who learned the hard way....it also made my daughter have hateful feelings for a cruel and unjust God in her opinion

[DemLikr]

81. Uhm...I don't believe your little story.

No one can get through that much material in one night.

So you're telliing a "parable" here to make a point, right?

Is your point that you have issues with the Bible as it was presented and interpereted to you?

The Bible is big and bizzarre and amazing and baffling and sexy and violent, just like all of world history. Just read it to her without editorializing, answer questions and leave it at that.

Kids are so much wiser than we give them credit for.

[Terwilliger]

83. a fictional storybook

like I said

Kids are more intelligent. Left to their own devices, they would never seek out a belief in god. That is given to them by older folks.

[liberalitch]

85. oh yea and don't forget that lott...

in an effort to get the crowd to not rape his guests offered them his daughters...
lott was not father of the year.