An URGENT Plea

[matcom]

anyone got Kerry's voting HISTORY?

i am talking about a TRUE comprehensive HISTORY complete with details of his votes in the Senate (preferably with DETAILS of those votes so she can see WHY certain votes were filled with bullshit)

got a "DEM" neighbor who says: "I just don't know if i like Kerry."

Me: "WHAT don't you like about him?"

Her: "Well, he has 'flip-flopped' on his votes over the years."

Me: "Where do you get THIS?"

Her: "I listen to 'Jay Severan' even though i disagree with him" (local RW talk show host)

Me: "WHY do you listen to HIM THEN?"

Her: "I don't know, I just don't think Kerry votes consistently"

:eyes:

they are getting to her. i want to give her INFORMATION about Kerry's votes.

HELP???

[yardwork]

1. I hear the same thing from supposed "Dem" neighbors.

It makes me ill. I get so angry it's better for me not to talk with them.

I just hope that they are so confused and ignorant they forget to vote in the election.

[Stephanie]

2. This page is pretty good, but not exactly what you want

http://www.nytimes.com/top/news/washington/campaign2004/candidates/johnfkerry/index.html

*edit* While I've got you on the line - a question from yesterday. What in particular did Clarke say on MTP that changed Dadcom's mind??

[matcom]

4. Dadcom's mind changed over a year ago

just that he was SPECIFIC about Clarke

i changed him sometime in mid 2002. power of the facts you know :)

[Stephanie]

6. But didn't he say after seeing Clarke he now thought they LIHOP?

Did you get into specifics about Clarke's appearance?

[matcom]

9. sort of. he called me regarding that

he had been convinced before about everything BUT LIHOP. Clarke turned him on THAT one.

that was when he thanked me for protesting and for once, told me he was proud of my convictions even though he doesn't always agree.

he AIN'T voting for Chimp, THAT you can be sure of :)

[Stephanie]

11. sorry to harp on this, but was it something specific Clarke said?

What turned him on LIHOP?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. Rather than use his record (which of course you can)

A great deal of it is in this link
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html#
I would explain that if ANY senator or congress critter's record was put under a microscope they would ALL appear to be flip-flopping...look at the steam the energy bill had with Repubs and several of them have changed their vote on one version to the next...the reason for this is that the original bill comes out, then compromises are made that might stray the bill from it's intent or riders are added to make the bill unpalletable or to pass some other agenda other than that for which the bill stands thereby killing it.

On his basic stands and positions, he is not a flip-flopper.

[drhilarius]

5. don't have the record

but there are arguments you can use to counter.
1. The votes talk show hosts use are often out of context. A lot of legislation has riders that congresspeople disagree with. If they do, they vote against it. Once the rider is removed, then they may vote for it. For instance, the recent(pro) gun bill that was on the floor of the senate was struck down by a huge majority, repub and dem. Why? The repubs were voting against the rider that would extend the assault rifles ban. Years from now, during a senate primary, a repubs record on that vote could be pulled out of context and used aganst him (he's for gun control,etc.).
2. The margins for his "flip-flopping" are often large. The simplest rebuttal is "haven't you ever changed your mind? Haven't you ever been persuaded to change your position?" People, hopefully, grow and change, and what they vote for will change likewise.

[eleny]

12. and bush has no voting record in congress

but what we have is an awful record as president. ugh.

[MAlibdem]

7. If you get the Economist (or look it up at your library)

They had a really good article on Kerry "flip-flopping", and that's a conservative british journal.

[TinaTyson]

8. Here is the most recent stuff

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/cgi-bin/membervotes.cgi?&lang=&member=MAJR&site=congressmerge&address=&city=&state=&zipcode=&plusfour=&fullvotes=1

Sorry I don't see that they have anything further back than that.

[tom_paine]

10. Ah, a conversation with that all too common bird

Moronus Amerikus Totalitaricus Bootlickus

I, too, have had my conversations with these fools. More than I care to recount.

Doesn't part oif you just wish you could let them all get what they deserve? If they were in another country and I was safe, I would let these fools and their offspring live the Bushevik Dream.

But I cannot because they are dragging me down and will probably drag me off to the Gulag when the time is right.

Here's your link. Good luck.

http://congress.org/congressorg/bio/?id=298&lvl=C&chamber=S

(this does not connect directly to his voting record but there should be good info there)

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/cgi-bin/membervotes.cgi?&lang=&member=MAJR&site=congressmerge&address=&city=&state=&zipcode=&plusfour=&fullvotes=1

(this one looks like it might be promising)

[TinaTyson]

13. Ahhhh, Ok here is a more complete page.

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0421103

The voting record link from here is more compelte and is categorized by subject and year as well!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. This may help when cross-referenced to the others...

Project Vote Smart
<http://www.vote-smart.org/index.phtml>

....and you can check individual pieces of legislation with the following (read the FAQ):

Thomas Legislative Information
<http://thomas.loc.gov/>

[Oddman]

15. A very insightful, unbiased series on Kerry from the Boston Globe

Tell your friend to read this 7 part series about John Kerry. It really spells out his life in an unbiased way.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/

"Don't say anything stupid or chimpy gets it!"

[Career Prole]

16. You've probably seen this one already

from Slate on the defense-spending votes:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127

[nostamj]

17. ask: do you want the opinions and priorities

of a cabal that is preserved in amber

or

a senator that, sensibly, changes his outlook/opinion based on the shifting, dynamic world we live in?

making the right decision at the right time based on current intelligence can be *characterized* as a flip-flop when it's really the vote you would have wanted in that situation.

then, compare it to *'s flip-flops

no 9/11 commission | yes 9/11 commission
no DHS | yes DHS
no child left behind | no funding

you know the song...

[Slit Skirt]

18. talk about flip flops

**no nation building (to Gore in debate)
**nation building (plans for Iraq 1/8/01...first national security meeting)

**wmds and nuclear threat
**no wmds, no nuclear threat and 550+ dead and 3000+ injured

**no prior knowledge of 911
**plenty of prior knowledge of 911 and 3000 dead (there's lots of resources on this one)

**no 911 commission
**911 commission

**no wmd investigation
**wmd investigation

AND THAT'S FROM JUST ONE PRESIDENT.....IN 4 YRS....

How about explaining to her that kerry has been in the Senate for 20yrs and it is to be expected that times change, needs change. That just shows that Kerry can look at both sides of the issues and be flexible..... and depending if some other congressional leader tagged on some other bill to push his agenda he might vote against that....or stop Pentagon waste...what did he vote for....check kerry.com he is an environmentalist....AND HE WANTS TO KNOW HOW PROGRAMS ARE GOING TO BE PAID FOR.....
also ...at least we know what Kerry was doing...

Bush on the other hand does not like answering questions about his background......
Bush jr hides his past ....oh let's see....DUI, 3 failed businesses, one which was bailed out by none other than the Bin laden construction company....how about insider trading with Harken....which he got away with.....dodging Viet nam....shall I go on

whatever you do ...don't let her define John Kerry by stupid ads....LET'S START DEFINING AND UNVEILING THE REAL GEORGE BUSH....
we need to play the same game as they do