Whoa! on C-span now!

[RainDog]

I don't know who the guy is...with a group and he just asked the Acting Foreign Minister of Spain a question about the bombing in Spain.

The guy said that no evidence has been given that either the Separatists or an Al Q. franchise was involved.

He said that the bombing follows the "strategy of tension" which was also pursued by the "syncarchists" in Italy...noted that both Franco's descendant and Mussolini's are part of this?

Mentioned that the guy who tried to overthrow the govt (from the right) is still, now, in the Army in Spain!

She cut to "what is your question..."

And he asked what Spain was doing to investigate the possiblity.

Apparently, she didn't want to talk about this.

I'm going to look for an article on line...the guy mentioned The Scotsman.

Anyone else know about these speculations?

[rooboy]

1. This follows an interesting comment I heard on radio the other day...

someone said that the "buzz" around Spain was that shortly after the Madrid attacks, Aznar's government tried to get the king to agree to declaring martial law, but he wouldn't sign the decree.

I coudn't find any further info on the story and I don't speak Spanish, but I hope someone could shed some light on this also...

[WarNoMore]

5. Call me silly,

but I thought it interesting(?) that the king and queen of Spain had their visit with Jeb, I believe it was between the recount and the inaguaration--just seemed like funny timing.

[baldguy]

2. Real journalists. Real questions. Real answers.

It's only astonishing because we don't get much of that here.

[RainDog]

4. The guy had an American accent

But, yes, astonishing to hear real questions about real concerns based upon historical precedent.

[RainDog]

3. From The Scotsman

This is a REALLY good overview of some serious intelligence blowback issues...it is so strange to me that this sort of information seems to NEVER appear in the nationwide dailies.

Unlike this newspaper.

I am not going to put on my tin foil hat about the name, New Order, but...

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=294892004

Sun 14 Mar 2004

In August 1980, a bomb went off at Bologna station, killing 84 passengers and wounding 200. It took undercover agents two years to discover that it was not, as most people suspected, the work of the left-wing Red Brigade, but of a right-wing group known as the Ordine Nuovo, or New Order, which had links across Europe and even into South America.

The lessons of those investigations could be critical today if the true identity of the group responsible for the Madrid massacre is ever to be established.

Ordine Nuovo, it was found, had developed a political theory which was a chilling foretaste of the terrorism of the 21st century. It came to be known as the ‘strategy of tension’ and its aim was to carry out acts of terrorism which could be blamed, not on right-wing extremists, but on radical left-wing groups. The idea was that by sending intelligence agencies off on a false trail, panic and confusion would be created, to the point where the army might have to step in to take control.

"In our view, the first move to destroy the structures of the democratic state under the cover of communist activities," read one of their papers.

There is an awful familiarity about that passage today. The immediate presumption in Spain was that ETA must have been responsible for the bombing of the Madrid trains. The explosives were of a type used by ETA, plans were unearthed linking ETA to attacks on trains, and a lorry containing bombs was traced back to ETA.

The evidence all pointed one way. Now, however, it seems that the trail may have been the wrong one, and police find themselves fighting on two fronts, just as they had to do in their war against the Black Orchestra.

That war was won in the end. It was won because the organisations responsible were finally penetrated, exposed and brought to justice. It took a generation to do it, and most of what happened is concealed so deep in intelligence files that some of it has never emerged to this day.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

7. here's more on that 1980 bombing

www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/gladio.htm

Over the last few weeks an international team of Searchllght investigators has been working hard to build up an accurate picture of the significance of the revelations in Italy late last year of illicit operations by an organisation given the code name Gladio. This was the Italian section of a top secret NATO organisation that had its roots in the very earliest days of the cold war at the end of the second world war, even before NATO was created.

...

"There were other activities as well and there were Stay Behind people implicated in the fascist bomb attack on Bologna railway station in 1980". In that attack, 85 people were killed and hundreds injured.

Last summer one of the men jailed for his part in the Bologna mass murder - Licio Gelli, the grandmaster of the P2 masonic lodge - was released after a sucessful appeal against his conviction.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Michael Ledeen, Italy and P2

Guess where leading neoconservative Ledeen was at the time of Italy's strategy of tension, what he was doing, and with whom he consorted?

From Asia Times:

...terrorism has been Ledeen's bread and butter since at least the late 1970s, when he consulted for Italian military intelligence, which in turn enabled him to expose Billy Carter's dealings with the Muammar Gaddafi regime in Libya to the great satisfaction of Republicans, who were revving up their campaign against Billy's brother, then president Jimmy Carter.

Ledeen's right-wing Italian connections - including alleged ties to the P-2 Masonic Lodge that rocked Italy in the early 1980s - have long been a source of speculation and intrigue, but he returned to Washington in 1981 as "anti-terrorism" advisor to the new secretary of state, Al Haig.

Over the next several years, Ledeen used his position as consultant to Haig, the Pentagon and the National Security Council under Ronald Reagan to boost the notion of a global terrorist conspiracy based in the Kremlin, whose KGB pulled the strings of all of the world's key terrorist groups, especially in the Middle East.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EF26Ak03.html

[9215]

14. Italian Prime Minister linked to Ordine Nuovo!!

Italian Prime minister linked to suspected perps!!

There is a link between Ordine Nuovo and the US National Alliance or its Italian counterpart Alleanza Nationale. National Alliance founder and recently deceased William Pierce, author of the " The Turner Diaries" and American Nazi Party member, was linked to Benito Mussolini's grandaughter in the Italian branch. The National Alliance is suspected of involvment in the 1973 Allende assasination. A copy of the "The Turner Diaries" was found in OK City bomber Timothy McVeigh's car.

Italian power broker, prime minister and fascist symp Silvio Berlusconi is linked to Alleanza Nationale and is cited by "The Beast Reawakens" author Martin Lee as involved in many fascist goings on

http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/25/15/lee2515.html

.......In the late '70s, Berlusconi secretly joined Propaganda Due (P-2), an elite, fascist-leaning masonic lodge that is often mentioned in accounts of Italian intrigue. Described by Italian judges as an illegal "state within a state," the P-2 had high-level connections to Italian intelligence agencies, the armed forces, leading financiers and captains of industry. P-2 members have been implicated in nearly every major political scandal that has shaken Italy since the mid-'60s--including neofascist bombings, coup plots and a major smuggling operation that specialized in arms and drugs, while laundering dirty cash through front companies owned by the Vatican Bank. .......

.......Likened to "Citizen Kane on steroids," Berlusconi enjoys a concentration of power over information that exists in no other democratic country. Without his domination of the airwaves, he never would have emerged as a significant political figure in Italy. "Sua Emittenza" ("His Transmittance"), as Berlusconi is widely known, marshaled his opinion-molding TV and print venues to demonize his adversaries and further his own political ambitions. Blatantly biased "news" broadcasts on Berlusconi's networks were virtually indistinguishable from campaign ads and press releases hyping his candidacy. ........

......Berlusconi's principal governing partner is Gianfranco Fini, a suave, 49-year-old politician who cut his teeth as leader of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), Europe's oldest neofascist party. Berlusconi publicly aligned himself with Fini before the MSI chief gave his organization a face-lift and renamed it the National Alliance in 1995. The National Alliance recently grabbed 11 percent of the vote, ensuring that Fini will be deputy prime minister in the new regime. ...........

And this from an "Intelligence report" from the Southern Poverty Law Center. I sent the head of that org, Morris Dees, a copy of Martin lees book a couple of years ago.


http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=335

In Italy, 'Post-Fascists' Help Rule
Nostalgia for Mussolini's Blackshirts is not uncommon among members of Italy's far-right National Alliance, led by Gianfranco Fini. A smooth-talking, telegenic politician, Fini cut his teeth as chief of the Italian Social Movement, Europe's oldest neofascist party.
But he realized that he needed to moderate his image in order to enhance his vote-getting potential. So Fini gave his organization a face-lift and a new name and proclaimed himself a "post-fascist."
His big break came when he formed an alliance with -billionaire media magnate Silvio Berlusconi, who became prime minister of Italy in June. The National Alliance, which polled 12% nationwide (down from 16% in 1994), is currently the junior partner in a coalition government and Fini is Italy's deputy prime minister...........

........Berlusconi also made an electoral pact with Tricolor Flame (Fiammi Tricolore), an unapologetically fascist sect that rejects Fini's efforts to mainstream the far right movement.
A magnet for Skinheads and neo-Nazis, Tricolor Flame is led by Pino Rauti, a veteran of the terrorist underground. Three members of Ordine Nuovo (New Order), a neofascist group formed by Rauti, were sentenced in June to life in prison for a 1969 bomb attack in Milan that killed 16 people and injured 88 others. The attack on a bank in the central city initiated the so-called "strategy of tension," which was meant to halt the country's slide to the left. .....


National Alliance leader linked to Reagan staffer--

Willis Carto, Tom Metzger, Liberty Lobby and White Aryan Resistance+Reagan: http://www.adl.org/resistance_records/New_Owner.asp

Also Willis Carto started the "Institute for Historical Review" as a vehicle for promoting Holocaust denial disinformation.

By October 1998, Resistance Records had relocated to Etiwanda, California, near San Bernardino, under the joint ownership of Carto and his business partner, Todd Blodgett, a former low-level White House staffer in the Reagan administration. Blodgett finished journalism school in 1983 and then worked for various Republican politicians. By 1995, he had fallen under Carto's influence, handling more business and marketing functions for him as time progressed. He eventually became Carto's partner.

Carto originally found National Alliance, the largest nazi org in US with link to Benito Mussolini's grandaughter and Allende's assasination. Dr. Pierce member of American Nazi Party took over. http://www.adl.org/explosion_of_hate/history.asp. Pierce is linked to "The Order" the most violent white supremacist group in the US.

[9215]

6. Spaniards, Nazi Germany and "New Order"

Sure is odd that Ordine Nuovo has the same name. There is another organization in Italy with links to the Right-Wing extremist group National Alliance in the US. Apparently Benito Mussolini's granddaughter was a member.

One of the most violent white supremacist groups in the US is "The Order".

http://www.umsystem.edu/upress/fall2000/bowen.htm

Spaniards and Nazi Germany
Collaboration in the New Order
Wayne H. Bowen
Using recently declassified documents from Spain and the United States, personal interviews, and unpublished and published Spanish, German, British, and U.S. records, Spaniards and Nazi Germany makes a significant contribution to the understanding of Hispano-German relations during the 1930s and 1940s. This study shows that Naziphiles within the Spanish Falange, Spain's fascist party, made a concerted effort to bring their nation into World War II, and that only the indecisiveness of dictator Francisco Franco and diplomatic mistakes by the Nazis prevented them from succeeding.

[9215]

11. OOPs, read post #3 to make sense of this. nt

[Old and In the Way]

8. Anyone know where I can buy a deck of Al Qaeda playing cards?

Seems with all the media oxygen given to the AQ, we'd have a pretty damn good picture of who they are, OBL notwithstanding.

I mean, the AQ wouldn't be an elaborate meme made up by the RW to spread fear and install authoritarian control over the masses, would it?

It appears the Spanish and French people never got the message.

[9215]

10. LOL!

It's almost cliche' to equate them with Emmanuel Goldstein of "1984". We haven't got a one of them except maybe Moussaoui and he was let go. Who knows who the people were in GTMO.

[Octafish]

9. The BFEE turd Pat Robertson fancies himself Scottish.

No matter if he is or not: Marion "Pat" Robertson is a NAZI. Like his pals in the Aryan-KKK brotherhood, the reverend seems to have a heart filled with hate and an eye for the lucre. Here's what Greg Palast reported on the man who would stone UFO believers to death:

Bank of Scotland counts cost of US misadventure

Observer, London
Sunday, June 6, 1999

The story of Bank of Scotland's painful association with American TV evangelist Pat Robertson can easily be told as a hilarious tale of misjudgement, a public relations disaster that provided huge entertainment for all.

Episode one The bank feels that 'to remain competitive and one of the UK's leading banks, it must seek innovative ways of expanding its market' - a phrase used in a letter to unhappy customers in March.

Episode two Talks start between the bank and Robertson Financial Services, the company controlled by the ultra-right wing preacher, aimed at setting up a telephone banking operation in the US.

Episode three After the deal is announced, a number of British groups that had previously been happy to deal with Bank of Scotland say they would rather not be associated with an organisation that is teaming up with a bigot who has variously attacked homosexuals, feminists, Democrats, Muslims and Hindus. (Robertson's take on feminism gives a flavour: he called it a 'socialist anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practise witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians'.)

CONTINUED EPISODES and links galore:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=39&row=1

[Minstrel Boy]

13. Remember the incoming government told the FBI thanks, but no thanks?

And the FBI was shocked - Shocked! - its expertise would not be valued.