Report: right-wingers savagely attack Atlanta man

[rumguy]

Now comes a fairly clear-cut case of a politically inspired assault by right-wingers on a gay man in Atlanta -- in fact, it appears they drove all the way from at least Kansas to commit the crime.

The assault -- which included raping the man with a sawed-off broomstick and holding a knife up to his scrotum and threatening to cut it off -- was in apparent retaliation for a LiveJournal post in which the victim, an Atlanta artist, depicted (through the wonders of Photoshop) George W. Bush as a Grand Dragon at a Klan rally. Using information they gathered from the Web, they stalked him and brutalized him into unconsiousness, leaving him for dead in an alley.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

Notice it was in "retaliation" for an internet post that lampooned the Shrub.

ON EDIT: title correction

ON EDIT: this is not reflective of all right wingers, but is a reflection of the rhetoric many of them use...

[Adelante]

1. How horrible

The fuckers.

[rumguy]

52. UPDATE - STORY MAY BE UNTRUE

go to the blog for further info.

I was just gonna let this thread die but just noticed it back up here...

[BlackVelvetElvis]

2. That is sick

You know Phelps had a hand in this.

[Katherine2]

3. I was just over at Free Republic

and they have one thread entitled "Dead Franken Walking" and another posting his home address. That is definitely not kosher, especially with those maniacs.

[madrchsod]

10. that`s the kind of post that

should be turned into the fbi-(that`s one of the reasons that i cringe when this language is used here at du)- it would be nice if free republic got a call from the fbi....

[rumguy]

12. authorities appear to already be involved in the Atlanta case

[mouse7]

20. It's been done before... seen movie "Talk Radio"?

The movie "Talk Radio" was based on a real story. Right wing freak kills talk radio hosts over politics.

And just to make this clear to freepers roaming through here... you can't kill us all.

There will ALWAYS be someone ready to pick up the mike right behind anyone who falls ready to pick up where they left off.

[MrBadExample]

54. Yep.

Alan Berg. I used to live about a block from where he got shot. It was eerie walking past the place every day. There's a book about it, if you'd like to find out more.

[sandnsea]

26. Copy it

Send it to the Atlanta PD and FBI and terrorism task force and wherever else. This is the kind of evidence we need to prove that they're a hate group. Maybe it'll shut them down.

[sniffa]

36. Link

couLd you pLease provide a Link to the franken thread at freepviLLe? gracias.

[sniffa]

39. bump

bump for my request to fLoat near the top.

[sniffa]

43. annoying bump

never mind.. i found it. franken's address/ phone number have been removed... but freepers are stiLL caLLing it, and aL's wife answered.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1107628/posts

[Katherine2]

50. Sorry, I'm a dork

didn't see your note further down that you'd found it. My bad.

[Katherine2]

49. I'm sorry I was gone

when you asked for the link. The main thread with the address is now gone, but on the Dead Franken Walking thread they discuss how they saved the address on posts 29 and 34. I can't link, but the address is

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1107628/posts

Sorry for the delay.

[Trajan]

4. Typical right wing contradiction ...

"I hate gays; so I will fuck a man's ass with a stick" ...

SHEEEESH ... how transparent is this latency ? ...

[Nay]

30. Really, so true, Trajan.

These freaks are so dumb and malicious they can't even see it, though, even though it's obvious to everyone else. I hope the FBI strings them up.

[bluestateguy]

5. Another reason to oppose gun control

Armed gays don't get bashed.

If you folks want to hold out hope that "law enforcement" in the South will dispense to these men the appropriate justice they deserve you will be waiting a long time.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

6. I have seriously changed my view on guns. Except for assault weapons....

I am ALL FOR gun rights. We Libs need to protect ourselves from these "Hitlers"!!!!!

[fujiyama]

9. Same here...

Used to favor registration and licensing. No longer do. I'm still iffy on assult weapons.

Either way, this sort of violence is very distrubing. Seems like the right is creating a psychotic cult of personality around Bush and a violent army as well -- sorta like they did with tyrants of the past.

[mhr]

25. Amen Brother, I was Anti-Gun Until The Reich-Wing Assault Of America

No longer!

When the revolution comes, being armed will be the only way to protect oneself from these people.

[Nlighten1]

31. Good...we need more left leaners to abandon

the irrational fear of guns.

Happiness is a warm .50 cal.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

40. Same here

[tom_paine]

53. Nice to see some people seeing the light!

The Busheviks are an advertisement for the 2nd Amendment.

Just what would they be doing right now if we weren't a highly armed nation and going "right to 1943" would result in Civil war and a possible damaging of the Prize (Imperial Amerika).

Join the Gun Nut Club, PROGRESSIVE1. You are not alone, I think, as many libs who see themselves (correctly) as the German Jews of Bushevik Amerika, are awakening to the virtues of Armed Self-Defense.

[mulethree]

58. Need defective guns

Guns that have a 10% chance of shooting the shooter. Make sure they
think 3 times before they pull the trigger

[booley]

44. unless the freepers have guns too

... guns only defend you if you get them out first.

If you are being attacked, chances are the attacker initiated the attack.

last I heard, freepers were big on gun ownership. So what are the chances that any that went psycho wouldn't have a gun?

[KansDem]

47. I'm reminded of the Election2000 "recount" in Florida

While a county was trying to recount the ballots, a reporter interviewed a group of men standing in the parking lot outside the county offices. She asked them what they thought of the recount, and they "suggested" if the recount was going "badly" (showing Gore was the winner), they were prepared. One man motioned with a head nod to his trunk and said they brought the necessary means. It was easy to surmise that he was referring to guns and firearms, although no guns/firearms were actually shown during the interview.

I remember thinking "What's with these people???" But that was before I realized the "grand scheme" of the Bushistas, PNAC, and the neo-con fascists.

[tom_paine]

55. Two issues of refutation:

1) If you have a gun, and Freepers attack, you have a chance to, as you say "draw first". No gun, no chance. There's no outrunning a bullet. Plus a guy with a knife might turn tail if you point a gun at his heart. No gun, knife is in you.

2) The IDEA of armed libs/Dems will likely be enough to stop these cowardly Brownshirts, because at heart they are no better than their Nazi forebears, who also should have been faced down early on.

Imperfect solutions for an imperfect world. See how well "harsh language" works on Bushevik Brownshirts at 2 am. Plus, the Bushevik Cops may well smile and laugh, especially in the South and ESPECIALLY in the South if you're homsexual.

(though it could happen like that anywhere, apologies to the many fine people who live in the South)

[booley]

60. Ok, I refute your refutation

"If you have a gun, and Freepers attack, you have a chance to, as you say "draw first". No gun, no chance. There's no outrunning a bullet. Plus a guy with a knife might turn tail if you point a gun at his heart. No gun, knife is in you."

Ok, first, you are assuming that just becuase one is violent that one is also stupid.
No, they will not give you a chance to draw first. this aint' the old west. there are no gun fights at high noon, and if you shoot first, all that happens is you get arrested.

Secondly.."2) The IDEA of armed libs/Dems will likely be enough to stop these cowardly Brownshirts, because at heart they are no better than their Nazi forebears, who also should have been faced down early on."

some of the German communists did try that.

Now, if people are activly trying to kill you thas a different but until we have an ACTIVE revolution in this country in which we are all living in a war zone..that wil make carrying a gun all the time reasonable. But at the moment we don't live in a war zone, we can't identify our 'enemies" by sight in time to know if they are planning on killing us much less be justified in trying to kill them pre-emptivly and frankly all guns do in our case is provide a rather weak security blanket.

In case you forgot, the Nazis didn't use just brown shirts and didn't have any problems continuing thier oppression even after thier former thug allies had been gotton rid of.

Indeed, if there was a violent overthrow of a tyranical government, home made nitro would be more effective.

But lets hope it doesn't come to that.

And why do you think you have to have a gun to be able to stand up for yourself?

[DoNotRefill]

62. because...

"And why do you think you have to have a gun to be able to stand up for yourself?"

Having a gun during an attack is by far the most effective means of resistance. In 1994, the DoJ released statistics about people being attacked. They found that around 20% who resisted with a gun were harmed, around 33% of those who did what they were told were harmed, and around 50% of those who resisted without a gun were harmed. Which odds would YOU choose?


"home made nitro" is a piss-poor self defense weapon, unless you're into blowing yourself up with your attacker. A firearm is "the original point-and-click interface." It's directional and effective.

"Ok, first, you are assuming that just becuase one is violent that one is also stupid.
No, they will not give you a chance to draw first. "

OK. See if you can follow this. If they are in a "shoot first" mode, it doesn't matter if you're armed or not if they kill you as soon as they see you. Armed or unarmed, you're dead. If they have a gun and you have a gun that you draw, they may kill you, or you may kill them, or it could end without death (the way most encounters where both parties have guns end). If they kill you, your gun didn't help you, but it didn't hurt you either. If you kill them, your gun helped you. If neither party gets shot because everybody ran away, that's effectively a "save". If they don't have a gun and you do, you've got an excellent chance of being OK.

End result: Of the three possibilities, the only way you don't have a better chance of survival is if they shoot you on sight.

"some of the German communists did try that."

VERY FEW tried that. For the most part, the leftists in Weimar registered their guns, and surrendered them without a fight. To provide a counterpoint, during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, the Jews started out with fewer than TWENTY obsolete firearms TOTAL, with only a few hundred rounds of ammunition. They held the Nazis at bay for longer than it took the Nazis to conquer Poland in Sept. 1939, despite the fact that they were in a tiny walled-in compound, surrounded by guard towers and machineguns. Armed resistance can be VERY effective.

[tom_paine]

64. Congrats on your upcoming child's birth, DoNotRefill!

:toast: :toast: :party: :beer:

I pray for him/her and all of us that we will have a Free Nation to live in and grow up/old in peacefully.

[tom_paine]

63. "Every Jew a .22" --JDL Motto, 1968

"Never again." --Jewish motto

I understand how you feel. We are going to have to agree to disagree here, clearly.

I don't "need" a gun to stand up for myself (straw man, I never said that & in all of the situations in my life up unitl now I have been able to stand up for myself just fine without a gun).

And you miss the point entirely.

You are talking specifics, I am speaking of the Big Picture. You can lay out and spin scenarios all the livelong day. You are correct: A gun does not guarantee safety...NOTHING guarantees safety.

For the first (and I notice you didn't address this), the IDEA of an armed populace that would "damage the prize" slows potential tyrants. You say the German Communists tried to stop the Nazis. Who gives a shit? What if every other German Jew had a house full of guns and refsued to turn them in? What if Nazis who were terrorizing Jews started getting popped regularly. You think that would have had no effect on the Nazi "verve" to terrorize Jews.

Maybe so, maybe no, but we'll never know because the German (and Polish and Italian and...) Jews weren't armed. Those that were gave 'em up right away. And we know what happened after.

There is an old saying by a WWII Jewish Partisan (I don't know who and the quote may not be perfect), "I will never give up my guns because I had to kill too many facsists to get them in the first place."

Second, you are simply telling me that, because the odds are that the Freeps wouldn't let me "draw first" that it's 100% certain that's how things would go down? Should I deny myself the % chance (however small) that it might go down in such a way that a gun WOULD protect me?

Are you really that disconnected that you believe there is a 0% chance of that?

0%??? Even if it was only 1%, that would make it worth it, just as I might think the 2004 "elections" will be rigged as a Soviet election and Kerry can't possibly win due to Bushevik Cheating.

Same thing. If there is even a 1% chance (and it is much higher than that, IMHO) that I am wrong, that is enough for me to throw my back into the Kerry campaign as if we still lived in the Old American Republic. Because I could be wrong. As long is there is the smallest chance that the elections will be unrigged, that is enough for me to work my ass off.

Can you understand the concept of "insurance"? You never want to have to use it, but if you do you're damned glad you have it. The insurance might not cover your damage in every scenario, but is that a reason not to buy Homeowner's?

I know none of this is probably getting through to you and that's OK. It's still a 98% free country.

To be quite honest, I am uncomfortable taking about this. If you think I am some "Wild West Yahoo" you are greatly mistaken. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have no desire to use my guns and would be perfectly happy if I am utterly wrong. If you think I have wet dreams about gunfight in the streets of the Old West happening today, you are SORELY MISTAKEN.

Stereotypes just sort of suck you in, don't they? That's human nature and you are no different from the rest of us. Join the club of humanity.

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. Good luck facing off the Nationalized Neighborhood Watch (Freepers) in a decade or so with "harsh language", if the Busheviks succeed in transforming the nation in their image. As we all know, Freepers respond well to that sort of thing.

After reading this, you can't understand that my opinion, even if we still disagree, is valid and well-reasoned...then you never will.

[maggrwaggr]

7. any evidence that this is a true story?

just wondering, devil's advocate here ....

[rumguy]

11. only what's at the blog

there's some links to follow there

I trust this blog, the blogger is an established journalist, he has a good "nose" for stories like this

[Stephanie]

17. this blogger is trustworthy

for sure. We know him.

[drhilarius]

13. went to the ajc

and found nothing. Also have a friend in Atlanta who hasn't heard anything.

[RebelOne]

29. I live in the Atlanta area and

I have not heard anything about this.

[rumguy]

15. more

"I've been in contact with the friends of the victim. No news organizations have picked up on it yet, but it certainly does appear to be a real case. I'll have more on it in the next few days.
David Neiwert | Email | Homepage | 03.28.04 - 1:37 pm | # "

I guess we'll see...

[Gingersnap]

8. This is despicable

I wonder if this attack fits the new Patriot Act definition of "terrorism"? It does seem to be using force to threaten people from expressing political views.

Be careful everyone.

[Sulldogg]

14. This isn't popular

here on DU, but I've never felt comfortable with the Patriot Act's terrorist actions stuff and their predecessors: bias crime legislation.

I cannot get past the thought of punishing someone for having an opinion, however vile that position is. To me this violates the first amendment, fourteenth amendment and our right to privacy. Along with that it places the presumption of bias on the defendent to prove this one act was performed for a very specific purpose.

[kispoko]

16. nope

-I cannot get past the thought of punishing someone for having an opinion, however vile that position is.

an opinion, or thought, ceases to be just that when it is acted upon in a criminal fashion.....


-To me this violates the first amendment, fourteenth amendment and our right to privacy. Along with that it places the presumption of bias on the defendent to prove this one act was performed for a very specific purpose.

no, the burden lies entirely on the prosecution, to prove whether or not the crime involved a motive of bias, and not the other way around.... that's why sometimes charges won't be filed based on existing hate crime legislation, but on the more common laws dealing with those crimes because although *presumed*, they have to consider how easily it will/can be proven in court.

[BiggJawn]

32. You can HAVE any opinion you desire. Hell, you can even espouse it...

...But when you ram a broomstick up a man's ass and threaten to cut his nuts off, you cross a line.

Remember: "The 'Right" to swing your arms ends at the tip of another's nose"...

[mouse7]

19. Matthew Sheppard tortured, roped to fence dying for 18 hours

That's all that needs to be said.

[nemo137]

21. no, i'm sorry, it's not all that needs to be said

his death was tragic, yes, needless, yes, horrible, yes, but it was a death, it was one man being killed. why is his death so much worse than any other that it needs to be punished with another set of laws? if a man holds an opinion - homophobic, anti-semetic, anti-catholic, fascist - let him hold that opinion in his head for as long as he pleases. when and if he acts on it, bust his ass to the full extent of the law for that action, not for his opinion. we have murder and assult laws to punish crimes against people, we don't need laws to punish the motivation behind those crimes.

[Dookus]

22. the reason for hate crimes laws

is that hate crimes are not only perpetrated against individuals - they're perpetrated against GROUPS. If somebody burns a cross on black family's lawn, ALL black families in that neighborhood are victimized, not just the one whose lawn was used.

It's a form of terrorism.

[nemo137]

24. that's a separate crime, though.

it's either extortion or incitement, and should be prosecuted as such, as an action taken for a definite end, not as an action taking from some ideology.

[Dookus]

23. dupe

dupe post

[mouse7]

28. This is what happens to THEM kinda people who come HERE

That's what a hate crime is. A crime against an individual intended to intimidate and terrorize an entire group of people.

It is a different kind of crime. There need to be special statutes and special penalties for them.

However, not all crimes that happen to members of groups in question are hate crimes. A prosecutor needs to apply such statutes appropriately. They need to be there, but not used every time a crime happens between individuals in different groups. If a white kid steals a stereo from a hispanic guy's car, it's not real likely to be "hate theft."

[snippy]

34. We have thousands of laws that punish the motivation behind crimes.

Lots of criminal laws require proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a specific intent or motivation.

[booley]

46. Becuase a hate crime is a message

it isn't JUST a crime against one person, it's a way of telling everybody like that person that not can they be attacked at any time but somebody is activlly attempting to attack them. People get killed every day unfortunatly but that alone doesn't make large groups of people suddenly start worrying that that somebody is after them. A hate crime does,

And there is nothing particularily unusual about using intent/motive to determine the level of guilt. Thats why we have things like 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

I admit I have doubts about hate crime legislation, but it concerns whether such legislation actually works, not becuase of the principle.

[Sulldogg]

56. The issue for intent and motive

is different one.

Intent goes to the level of degree of a crime, or the intended crime. Premeditated murder is the most heinous, as it requires the greatest level of intent.

Motive on the other hand is not used to determine the severity of a crime in the strict legal sense, except to lessen it due to extreme circumstances.

Hate crime legislation creates two separate victim classes, those belonging to 'hate victims' and those not. Who is the arbiter of what classes of people, and what motivations, raise to the level of 'hate crimes'.

Take Ted Bundy for example, we all know he was a serial murderer. But his victims were all women, and most of the students. Is he guilty of 'hate crimes'?

My problem is that 'hate crime' legislation decides that certain motives are on their face more heinous, and places an undo burden on the plaintiff. It is possible for a klansmen to assault an African-American without it being a hate crime, but forcing the klansman to prove otherwise in court would be almost impossible.

If a crime is committed, and at the scene there are things left to specifically state this act to be an example to others, then the person responsible is guilty of more than the first crime, they are guilty of violating any number of other statues which prohibit intimidating acts and such.

[booley]

61. Sorry but not quite...

premediated is one factor but hardly the only one. Crimes of passion or accidedent are others. So a hate crime would not only be pre-meditated but also a terrorist act in the classic sense of the word..an act to instill fear in a given populace for some end)
Inded, your claim that intent is fundlementally different from motive sound like semantics. especially whe the intention of a hate crime is quite clear, to terrorize a particular group.

"Hate crime legislation creates two separate victim classes, those belonging to 'hate victims' and those not. Who is the arbiter of what classes of people, and what motivations, raise to the level of 'hate crimes'. "

firstly , even the system you describe does the same, assigning different punishments based on the particulars of the crime...

secondly, you almost make this sound liek a privledge. Unfortunatly to actually use a hate crime law, one has to be assualted or rmurdered.

Now as to proving it, i disagree with your assertion that an attack by a klansman on a black person would automaticly mean a hate crime charge would stick. Did the hypothetical klansman have any other reason to attack the victim? How violent was the attack (Hate crimes are terroristic and so tend to be particularily gruesome), what was the actions/attitudes of the klansman before and fater the attack?
and so on and so on. Thats the problem with your hypothetical situation, you really don't know hows it's going to go.

I personally do not beleive that hate crimes legislation works. But that doesn't mean hate crimes don't happen or that they have nothing to distinguish them from ordinary crimes.

[maveric]

18. So, this is what we have to look forward to? RW lynch mobs?

Beware if you are gay,bi,black,hispanic,muslim,jewish,liberal, intellectual,catholic,feminist,athiest,french....
And Ashcroft and his getstapo probably wont do much to stop it either.
When my tax return comes in I'm arming myself.

[guitar man]

27. Responsibility

The RW as a whole needs to start being held responsible for this type of behavior. Yes,the ultimate responsibility rests with the individuals who perpetrated this act of violence.However,I can't help but think it is due at least in part to the RW pravda whipping the mob into a frenzy. The majority of Repukes in Washington have done absolutely NOTHING to distance themselves from the propaganda,rather the opposite. I believe it was Cheney who called Oxymoron a "national treasure".

With the likes of Savage,Coulter,Hannity,Limbarf et al making careers and fortunes out of making liberals,gays,progressives and anyone else they disagree with into "enemies of the state",this type of incident is bound to become more common. The RW spin machine acts as one long,continuous "campaign commercial" for the RW politicians.It is time they took responsibility for the content of that from which they so richly benefit.

If Flush Limpcock can make the entire left responsible for the actions of a few nuts who vandalize big SUV's,we should be able to do the same for the RW and actions such as this one. Come on Air America!

<PS,for any lurking freepers who might want to stalk,attack or otherwise violate me or my family,I AM packing heat,a 4" Colt Python .357 mag...........Uhhh,what was it your hero $hrub said? Oh yeah..........BRING IT ON!!!

[Nlighten1]

33. Link?

[devinsgram]

35. Said it once, say it again

These people scare me more than Saddam Hussein ever could have.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Saddam? Feh. Even Osama isn't as scary. (nt)

[drumwolf]

42. Osama and right-wingers

Osama and his supporters are exactly what a lot of those right-wingers would be if America was suffering the same poverty and political repression that the Arab/Muslim world has.

I have no doubt that if Ann Coulter and Michael Savage were born Palestinian instead of American, they'd be strapping on bombs to kids and sending them into Israel to blow up innocent schoolchildren on buses in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

[Quahog]

37. Civil war

I believe we are seeing skirmishes here in what will ultimately become our nation's second civil war. The culture of violence we have nurtured through our entertainments has created an environment in which attacking and even killing someone who disagrees with you is seen by many as acceptable behavior. I don't see any signs that this tendency will soon be curbed. Rather, I think all the evidence suggests that it will get worse, as such actions are condoned and even encouraged openly on public airwaves. All we need is some AM radio lunatic ranting at his listeners riding around in pickups full of guns to "go kill a liberal NOW, for God's sake and America's," and the cork is gonna pop.

So yeah, I am quickly going from anti-gun zealot to a dude who's packing. But we're not going to beat them with firepower alone, they've got more than we do I'm guessing.

Good thing we have all the brains, we're going to need them. But we will have to learn how to act decisively, something that liberals/progressives have been very BAD at for almost as long as I can remember. If there remains a radical left in this country, they sure have been silent for a long, long time. There was a time when we had people on our side who knew how to fight back, and I am old enough to remember hearing about them when I was young. Despite my parents' slurs and handwringing, I always though people like Angela Davis were heroic.

[theboss]

41. Um, are you sure this is true?

No offense, but this story is apparently five days old. Wouldn't it have showed up in some press by now?

Can anyone confirm this is real?

I'm playing Devil's Advocate because this is the Internet, and I've seen too many of these stories where the guy was beat up by Tommy Hilfilger after he announced that he didn't want to sell his clothes to black people or something.

[Bread and Circus]

45. This act is both a hate crime and an act of terrorism...

but I doubt they will get as much as they deserve.

Fucking Assholes.

[ronnykmarshall]

48. Is there a link to the story?

I'd like to throw this in the face of a RW asshole that I know.

[rumguy]

51. UPDATE - STORY MAY BE UNTRUE

go to the blog for info. - the blogger comments in his comments section about it...

[Sulldogg]

57. Sad

but it is things like this and Professor Dunn (http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/03/18/college.hate.crime.ap/ )

that make people skeptics when they hear stuff like this.

People who play on our fears and insecurities amke life tougher for everyone when stuff really happens. Something about a boy and a wolf...

[rumguy]

59. well to be clear - this blog didn't play on anyone's fears

it was a report - and it was updated as more info. came in...

now let's just let this thread sink...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

65. RWingwers:May they all die from their ignorance before it kills us all!!!!

that is my WISH!!!!