John Kerry wants to raise gas taxes 50 cents a gallon!

[jobycom]

This is Bush's newest scam. Any idea what the truth is? I thought Kerry hadn't released his energy plan yet, and it seems to me that if he were to propose a 50 cent tax per gallon increase, it would have made the Conservative News Network, or one of Bush's other advertising departments. (This is the Bush campaign's newsletter. I signed up to see what they were up to.)



"John Kerry supported a 50 cent per gallon increase in the gas tax, which would cost the average American family $657 a year.

Today, Bush-Cheney '04 unveils the Kerry gas tax calculator, so voters can find out exactly how much Kerry's gas tax increase would cost them at the pump.

How much would it cost you? Find out today!

Based on the car you drive the Kerry gas tax calculator will show you how much John Kerry's 50 cent gas tax would cost your family. Planning a trip? The gas tax calculator will give you directions, and let you know how much more you'd be paying if you add in Kerry's tax. Just go to:

http://www.GeorgeWBush.com/Calculator/

Sincerely,

Terry Nelson
National Political Director"

[Don_G]

1. That Was Quick

Kerry wants the Federal Government to stop pumping the oil into the national reserve to lower prices per AP breaking news: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA04AQZFSD.html

[imax2268]

70. Not according to factcheck.org...this is bullshit...

Kerry once voiced support for a 50-cent increase in the gasoline tax. Bush calls that "wacky," but Bush's chief economist praised the idea.

March 30, 2004
Modified: March 30, 2004

Summary

A Bush ad released March 30 attacked Kerry for once supporting the "wacky" idea of raising the gasoline tax by 50 cents per gallon. That was a decade ago. More recently, the man who later became Bush's own chief economist said higher gasoline taxes would lead to "less traffic congestion, safer roads, and reduced risk of global warming" and that raising gasoline taxes 50 cents to pay for a cut in income-tax rates "may be the closest thing to a free lunch that economics has to offer." How "wacky" is that?

Analysis

As we've noted before , Kerry's support for a 50-cent-a-gallon increase in the gasoline tax happened a decade ago, back when regular was selling for a national average of $1.01 per gallon. Kerry's support was so fleeting that the only evidence of it to surface so far are two old newspaper clips in which Kerry complains that he deserved more credit as a deficit-cutter. He never voted for, or sponsored, legislation to impose such a tax, and he doesn't support one now, when the price is just under $1.76...

Read More Here...

[DarkPhenyx]

2. One hopes the Kerry Campaign

is registered there too.

if not someone should let them know about it.

[elfwitch]

3. I did it...

Mine worked out to:
Yearly gas tax increase = $105.69
Total yearly bill would = $452.59
Total monthly bill would = $34.72
Total weekly bill would = $8.68


You know what, even if it is true, I am okay with it. I figure I drive a little car that gets good mileage, it won't hit me that bad. The people who drive monster cars that get crappy mileage will have to pay more. I figure that is the punishment for driving something that gets less that 15MPG.

I honestly don't care about raised taxes. I know people who live in the UK and Sweden, they pay about the same percentage of their income as I do, and they get a shitload more for it. I'd much rather kick in my 38% (when you figure all the different taxes you pay) and get a free education and healthcare and everything else they get for their tax dollar.

[still_one]

5. That is not the point

This is a losing issue. If this is true he will not win

[bearfartinthewoods]

13. did you see the new ad?

showing people riding a ten person bike with copy saying something like;

John Kerry says if he hikes the tax on gas , people will drive less.

[elfwitch]

14. Alas you are correct...

Even if it is not true and they can get people to believe it is, it is still a losing issue. The problem is Americans don't bother to find out anything about how other people live.

If they really understood that they pay nearly as much of a percentage of their incomes in taxes as people in Socialist type Democracies do and that they get jack shit for it, they might demand more.

After you add in things like income tax (federal, state, and sometimes local), property taxes, sales taxes, school taxes, and so on, Americans shell out a HUGE chunk of their income to taxes and have nothing to show for it.

We cannot afford health care. We cannot afford education. We cannot afford child and elder care. We pay and pay and get nothing for it.

A fellow I know in the UK pays lees as a percentage of his income in taxes than I do and gets more for it.

People will never know this because we are blinded by the "American is the greatest country on the planet" myth.

So of course this issue would be one that Kerry could lose on. The average American is foolish and believes everything they are told.

[tom_paine]

21. "The average American is foolish and believes everything they are told."

Yes, another sad and absolutely correct comparsion to Imperial Subjects of Amerika 2004, Germans 1933, and Soviets, 1950.

When I consider the basic truth of that statement, elfwitch, I often wonder whether or not these people deserve to be free.

We Free Americans may be too miniscule a minority to save this nation from Totalitarian Tyranny.

Part of me SAYS, "Good. We are getting what we deserve."

But the problem with Nazis, Bolsheviks and Busheviks is that THEY seldom get what THEY deserve.

[outinforce]

25. This

comparison of Americans of 2004 to the Germans of 1933 and the people of the USSR in the 1950's (actually, I would think you most likely mean the people of the USSR from 1918 - 1989) is sure to win our party lots and lots and lots of votes.

People just LOVE to be told that they do not deserve to be free and that they are the sort of people who would participate in a holocaust.

[elfwitch]

28. Man if the shoe fits...

Sometimes the truth hurts. The Average Joe American let this happen. They let the schools be dumbed down. They let the media gain the kind of control that it has. They let themselves be fed horse-shit while all the while they were being told it is fillet mignon.

We were all sold the myth. We all bought it. The few people who aren't biting, the few who haven't been reeled in, the very few who know what is happening are too few to make a damn bit of difference.

How else could you explain all that the Bushies have gotten away with? Americans don't care. Americans don't vote. Americans are content to sit on their stuffed chairs and watch sports or reality TV and buy the products they are told to buy.

If you don't vote you are giving tacit approval to anything those in power decide to do to you. If you don't vote you are saying yes to dictatorship because you couldn't be bothered to make your voice heard.

I will not dumb myself down to appease the bleating masses. I will not accept less because THEY are too afraid to be responsible for their own democracy. This kind of environment is exactly the kind that would allow a Holocaust to happen. People do not care to get involved until their comfort zone is interrupted.

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

[outinforce]

34. You Say "They"

You say "They" let the schools be dumbed down, and "they" let the media gain the kind of control that it has, and they" let "them"selves be fed horse-shit while all the while "they" were being told it is fillet mignon.

"They" did that?

Do you mean those who are not a part of your elite group of "the few" who aren't biting? the "very few" who "know" what is happening?

No one is suggesting that you dumb yourself down in order to "appease" the "bleating masses", although just a tad more sensitivity to those who constitute the American public might, in the longrun, mean more voters for Our Party.

Suppose you are one of "Them" (I know this is probably difficult, but humor me here for a minute, OK?)

You have someone come up to you and say, "Hey, Stupid. Yeah, you in the stuffed chair...watching some dumb sports show or some inane reality show."

That would get your attention, right?

The person goes on, "I got a real bone to pick with you. The schools that are so dumbed down? It's all YOUR fault! And the media and its control? YOUR fault, too! You and everyone like you!"

THAT would really interrupt your "comfort zone", don't you think?

But then the person goes on, "You know, I want to persuade you to vote in the next election for some of the candidates that I think will do a great job of turning this country around"

Do you think you will be inclined to listen to the person who has just insulted you and cast guilt upon you?

Or do you think you might be just abit more inclined to plant you foot on that person's butt and try to find out who is running against the candidates that that little elitist supports?

[elfwitch]

48. Give me an F-ing break....

Do you honestly think that everyone can be saved? Do you honestly think that everyone can be encouraged through love and flowers to participate?

It is not elitist in any way to say that the fact is that some people ARE smarter than other people. Some people ARE more involved than other people. Some people ARE better fricken citizens than other people because they get involved. They make a choice.

No amount of hand holding and coddling is going to change the fact that the United States is apathetic to it's democracy. No amount of babying and kissy pookums to the apathetic chair dwellers is going to change the fact that they roll over and allow the Bush Administration to take many of the things that used to make this country a little different than anyplace else. No amount of sweet talk and head petting is going to make them put down their beers and read a newspaper or a magazine or a foreign news source long enough to realize that we have been raped by the Bushies.

They do not care until it effects them somehow. Look at how many people are just now waking up and getting involved for the first time because the cabal has intruded on their comfort zone. Some people it took losing their job. Some people it took losing their Howard Stern.

The fact is that the people who do stay informed and stay involved have to try to get the ones on the edge. The ones who are just waking up. The one who are just now noticing the warts on the frog. A whole lot of people in the middle are not able to be motivated and are not able to be swayed because they don't care enough about the blessings of democracy that they take for granted.

If you think that I am an "elitist" for that then so be it. I will gladly take that title if it means that I'm not living in a fools paradise that lets me believe that everyone is just one epiphany away from becoming an uber citizen. Some people cannot be saved. I can accept that, why can't you?

[BR_Parkway]

55. 2 numbers tell the story

# of people who voted in the primaries
vs
# of people who voted for American Idol

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, neither is ignorance of what is going on around you because you are too lazy to find out.

[theHandpuppet]

71. Good point

And sad but true. :(

[tom_paine]

38. If the shoe fits...

I'm NOT speaking for the Kerry campaign. I'm not speaking on TV or radio. I'm speaking on a message board. I don't give a shit what this will make people think. It's the truth and I stand behind it.

If I was speaking in public or on Tv or for the Kerry campaign, you betcher ass I would speak differently.

This is one post of thousands. And if there ONE THING Bushevik Amerika has taught me is that when you fail to state the truth, when you are afraid or bullied or scared of offending someone, then you might as well fold up the tent and move to Commie China.

I will NOT be silent. And it is very possible that what I say is true. Time will tell and nothing but.

And I will NOT be afraiod of Bushevik smears. They will smear and lie no matter what we say.

[outinforce]

22. Speaking of Losing Issues

Well, actually, speaking of losing propositions, here's one:

"The average American is foolish and believes everything they are told."

Such contempt for the people with whom we live in this country is truly a losing proposition.

It somehow suggests that "we" are the truly enlightened ones and "they" (that is, "The Average American") are stupid and unable to distinguish truth from fiction.

How would you react if someone were to suggest THAT about YOU?

Do you think you would be more or less inclined to trust or support people who said THAT about YOU?

I know I wouldn't, and I bet you would not, either.

During the next few months, I think we can expect to see many people come to this website and "lift" things that we say in order to "demonstrate" how we think and believe.

It seems to me that we should never demean the American people -- or the average American -- in this way.

It is fine to object to policies and laws and elected officials.

[elfwitch]

29. I think you are seriosly overestimating the Average American

Do you honestly believe that Mr. Middle American who doesn't bother to get off his ass and vote, is really going to seek us out?

The people who find DU and stay are the kind of people that are tired of dealing with Joe Average. We are tired of those 65 plus percent of fools that actually believed that Saddam was involved in 9/11. A large number of people believed it because they did not question what they were told. Everyone who posts here knows at least one and probably ten people that can rattle off the Repug talking points.

Nobody would suggest that about me because I seek out truth form various sources. I read. I stay informed. I stay involved. I vote.

The ones that don't vote, that huge percentage of Americans who can't be bothered to make a decision or cannot be bothered to pull away from Fox's new reality TV spectacle, those people allow this to happen. They do not use their right to vote. If you do not vote you are giving unstated approval for dictatorship. You are saying, you make my decisions for me because I can't take one hour out of my day to stand in line to make my voice heard.

[BlueJazz]

31. You Know... I understand what you're saying but

you can't really blame the folks on this forum for feeling that most Americans are ignorant. I mean, even after all the publicity in the past month about the "non-link" between Saddam and terrorists, according to latest poles, 60 percent of Americans STILL believe that Saddam had a lot to do with 9/11.

Europeans believe the rate is only 10 percent.
Let's face the facts....Americans ARE ignorant. :)

[outinforce]

47. "Americans ARE ignorant"

I can't tell, Radicalliberal, whether you are an American or not.

If you are, then I'm wondering whether you would include yourself in your statment about Americans and ignorance.

Or if you would somehow exempt yourself.

And, if you do exempt yourself, then what is it that you might suggest that someone -- perhaps the more enlightened and less ignorant Europeans? -- could do to raise us Americans from the depths of ignorance?

Perhaps a steady steam of statements insulting the intelligence of Americans would do the trick? Especially if they came from Europe?

[elfwitch]

52. He is absolutely correct...

Americans are ignorant. Our education system blows. In many European countries high school kids are smarter and better educated than many college juniors.

I accept my ignorance as an American. There are many things that I don't know about the world because I was never encouraged or expected to learn. I was only expected to learn one language instead of many like Europeans do.

I know very little about how people in other countries live because I get no information or experience in the matter.

I was told that America is the greatest country on the planet and that I shouldn't even bother learning about other places because they aren't as good as us anyway.

I am VERY educated. I read as much as I can about what happens in the world. I know that in spite of that, there are many things I am completely clueless to because as an American, I was never expected to know.

Every person who I have ever met that was from someplace else, looks at the United States with fear and pity. They know we are ignorant. They also know that we have too much power for a nation so closed off to new and foreign ideas.

It's like giving an infant a gun. It doesn't know well enough to not shoot other people or even itself.

[smirkymonkey]

58. Maybe we should grow up and listen to

some of the criticism and take it to heart. The American people, and it's leadership, have completely absolved themselves of any responsibility for the damage we cause to ourselves and around the world.

Collectively, it's like we as a nation, are an obnoxiously immature, alcoholic teenager who goes around smashing up cars, damaging property, lying and stealing and blaming everyone else for our problems.

Our leadership is without integrity and humility and so is a majority of the American public. I fear that the only thing that will wake this nation up is a severe economic or political crisis, or god forbid, another major terrorist attack.

I am an American and I am thoroughly disgusted with my own country (except for those on this board and others who care and take action.) We need to grow up now!

[mmonk]

62. unfortunately, the average American doesn't have a clue

especially about what the US does abroad and what is going on in the world. That's the truth whether many of those people can accept the truth or not.

[jobycom]

42. I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that

The "Average Joe" American gets up at six thirty, eats breakfast, gets kids ready for school, gets to a menial job by eight, works hard until five, gets home in time to eat a dinner, help kids with homework, fix something around the house, and go to bed somewhere in between. Mix in shopping, doctor visits, soccer matches, and a dozen other kid-related activities a week, and it's a sign of that American's love of freedom and Democracy that they even take the time to vote or watch a half hour of news at night.

It ain't the average American that's at fault, it's the corporate media, which has turned into an advertising department for the Republican party. People expect to hear the truth in a free country from a free media, and assume they do. It isn't their fault that they don't. It eventually catches up, when the reports of rosy job growth and promising economy don't ring true to out of work families filing for diminishing government assistance to buy inflated-priced items until they can get jobs no one is offering.

And someone mentioned voter turnout. Big Myth. Voter turnout is about the same as it's always been, but the "official" figures don't take into account a number of changing factors when creating these figures-- like increasing numbers of non-eligible voters in America (immigration, convict status). They simply count the number of voting-age people who vote. There are studies which suggest that when all factors are equalized, people may be voting more now.

Lay off the victims, blame the criminals. One of the most successful strategies of the rich and powerful is to divide the opposition.

[BigDaddyLove]

63. Thank you.

:yourock:

[cprise]

67. We let ourselves be roped into

...the workaholic, traffic-jam pattern.

Europe and Japan fought to keep a handle on domestic life and their capacity to spend large amounts of free time on education and general participation in society.

"...increasing numbers of non-eligible voters in America (immigration, convict status)."

So Americans prefer to staff menial jobs with people who can't "talk back". Why haven't we recognized the pattern of creating disempowered workforces and dealt with it?

I don't see a valid excuse in anything you said.

[Kanary]

57. Do other people matter to you at all?

You say it doesn't matter to you, and you are fine with paying more for gas.

Does it occur to you that there are real, live people in this society who will fall off the edge with more gas taxes, and not be able to make it to work?

I really don't understand what has happened to "Democrats". They USED to be the party that looked out for those below them. Now, as long as it doesn't matter to YOU, it's OK. To heck with those who have less than you have. If they lose their jobs, well, so what, it doesn't affect you.

No wonder some of us are railing against the Party.

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[cprise]

68. Oh boooo hoooo....

Lets see, I pay 25% more to gas-up my little VW, and I am expected to "fall off the edge" when all that money from the SUV gas taxes from the well-off suddenly make healthcare and inexpensive education a reality for me.

Fall off the edge... NOT.

What BRILLIANCE. You know, I can't understand what happened to "Democrats" either.

[porkrind]

64. Elfwitch, you rock.

"I figure that is the punishment for driving something that gets less that 15MPG."

"I'd much rather kick in my 38% (when you figure all the different taxes you pay) and get a free education and healthcare and everything else they get for their tax dollar."


I agree 100%. Nice to see some people out there like you "get it"

[still_one]

4. Bill Schneider was just pushing it on CNN

Kerry better respond to this FAST!

[underpants]

6. Notice that they say he supported it-he didn't VOTE for it

Not that anyone wants to pay enough attention to their message to see it is BS.

[BR_Parkway]

16. If they want to amend the Constitution, lets do something useful

like requiring that every bill and vote in Congress be one single issue, so that you know exactly where someone voted. All this burying various items (and tons of pork) inside other bills allows so much junk to be hidden and so many votes to be taken out of context.

[underpants]

20. That would be great

But you are talking about a SERIOUS culture change in DC.

Not only would their "outs" be taken away the addition of pork would me too.

In a perfect world that would be ideal....then again we could have a media that reports on the facts surrounding these accusations and the public would see the systematic misinformation program going on.

[Career Prole]

7. That wizened POS schneider just advertised this "gas calculator"

on what passes for "news" on CNN but which is actually (with the surprising exception of Lou Dobbs) a long, tiring bush* commercial. They'll probably get bombarded with hits now...but not from me. Kerry has suggested gas taxes to pay for research to free us from oil dependence. I'll pay it gladly.

[cyclezealot]

8. Americans get upset in regards to auto mobility

I hope I am wrong...I predict this will really get Americans psyched up...Americans are apathetic about everything but sex and access to the highway. Buscho ad campaign knows what they are doing with this one.
I say to Americans,one way or another you will pay..Either setting in gridlock, being gouged by the oil monopolies, or setting in gasoline lines at service stations...
A national response to the oil cartel is every bit worth .50cents. But convince the American people...When they buy $60,000 Hummerswith 8 mpg enginesl; you would think .50 cents is nothing.
I just hope a big chunk of the funds would go to alternative transportion and alternative fuel development.

[keithyboy]

9. When John Anderson ran for office as an Independent he proposed this

Had it been enacted then, we might not have had those record deficits of the Reagan years and our conservation and alternate fuel agenda might have us well on our way to independece from Arab oil cartels. Check out the history. WE ARE NOW PAYING MORE THAN THE 50 CENT TAX PROPOSAL AND GASOLINE IS PRICE IS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH WITH NO BENEFIT TO THE CONSUMER BUT TO JUST PROFITS FOR THE OIL COMPANIES. This is the point. At least 50 cent tax on gasoline would be going to government where it would be used to benefit the public and help lower the record deficits facing us.

[Bread and Circus]

23. Very astute. You are correct. It's sad that people are so damn stupid

and shortsighted.

[keithyboy]

32. My question is why isn't the Kerry campaign better prepared to answer

the Bush admin garbage? They should have anticipated most of this stuff and have ads in the pocket to roll out withing three days of Bush ad release. I think Kerry would do better to read the DU himself, fire most of his staff and get his attack ideas from the DU.

[AmandaRuth]

10. Turn it right back on bush

Gas was $1.18 the day Clinton left office, its $1.80 now, I wonder if that calculator can let me know how much the liars and crooks tm have cost my family in higher gas costs

[BR_Parkway]

11. Anyone click on the Call Talk Radio link?

they point you right to where your opinion can be molded to fit their talking points. Propoganda at the most extreme levels. I sure hope they used American programmers for this website.

[tom_paine]

18. They programmers were Totalitarians

Regardless of their country of origin, they were NOT Americans.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

12. They are so Low!

Bush is scum! When he was candidate bush he was shooting off his mouth that Clinton should open up the sprigit. (sorry for spelling)

Now let me get this straight here!

Last time i checked bush was president right?

And last time I checked gas was the highest ever right?


Just wanted to make sure Lol.

[No Mandate Here.]

15. This was eight or more years ago, ...

when gas was 85 cents a gallon. If we had done this then, the industry average would probably be 30 to 35 MPG by now, Hummers would have never been made, and the US would not be playing catch up on hybrid technology. Gas would probably NOT be nearing $3.00 a gallon in this "emergency" The bushistas are blaming it on China. It is the complete lack of foresight caused by the oil industry's manipulation of prices.

[jobycom]

26. So this was OLD stuff, not new stuff?

Geeze, how much as Bush's vanity invasion of Iraq raised gas prices?

And the entire cost of a tax hike is not passed on to the retail price. Price is set by the intersection of supply and demand, not by cost of product. Cost is one factor in supply. Unless profit on that item is a bare minimum (only happens when a product has so much competition as to generic), the retail price will only be raised a percentage of the tax increase, and the rest will be swallowed in profit loss by the corporation. So you see why Bush's corporate backers (and that includes the media) will fight so hard against these tax increases. Think about it-- if the full cost of the tax were passed straight to consumers, why would they care? No money out of their pockets. Yes, volume may go down, but then so would their need to produce, so their cost would go down. But it doesn't work that way. Taxes on things like gas are progressive even if a retail tax, because corporations swallow some of the increase in order to keep supply higher.

Always remember, the laws of supply and demand are on the side of the Democrats, too.

[tom_paine]

17. I believe this is an odious quarter-truth (i.e A LIE)

This proposal occurred more than 20 years ago. In a different nation, the Old American Republic, under a different set of circumstances.

I'm sure the position is further distorted, and since this is such a new slur, www.snopes.com has nothing on it yet.

This is standard Totalitarian Propaganda 101.

Lies and Lying Liars. It is disgusting to think that not only have they stolen and are destroying the Old American Republic, but that like the Germans of 1933, we may well be complicit as a people in allowing it to "happen again" (though "kinder and gentler" this time around)

[keithyboy]

19. But, but what is happening NOW is happening WITHOUT 50cent tax!

Does anyone understand this? Kerry voted for a proposal to raise gasoline taxes BUT that was NOT approved. So what is happening now is happening with the RW getting everything they wanted? Kerry has NOTHING to do with the spirialing gasoline prices confronting America now BUT Bush has EVERYTHING to do with them.

[mrdmk]

24. This is not the only thing being bounced around

According to my Mothers boyfriend, he informed me that Kerry was going to cut off all imports and raise the cost of living due to horrible inflation. Where he received this information is up for grabs. I do not know if it is speculation because he would not answer me.

Of course I do listen to the guy, but by no means is he the final word.

[KC21304]

27. And my Uncle's wife's cousin says

Kerry wants to close all the hospitals and schools to bring down the federal deficit. There is a chance that might be speculation too.

[nickinSTL]

36. WTF?

:wtf: ???

Kerry wants to close hospitals and schools?

Where the F@$% did he get that?

[ProfessorGAC]

39. He Was Being Sarcastic

Based upon the previous post where hearsay and fabrications were being used as the basis of fact, because it came from a "mom's boyfriend".

So, the reply was intentionally facetious.
The Professor

[mrdmk]

61. Sorry, missing the point

This guy (mom's boyfriend) is so pro Bush Jr. and found it so convenient to live without money (I really have a tough time following that one also) that he will get a tidbit of information and try to pass it around as the grand truth. He does not care if Mr. Bush Jr. lies about Medicare, Iraq, the air we breath, nothing, he is in fear that Kerry will raise the cost of living to the point where this guy (mom's boyfriend) cannot go around and live the way he use to doing. The Bush/Cheney 2004 campaign (from the ads I have seen) is nothing more than a fear campaign and some people do not want to get pass that.

I did not say in any way that Mr. Kerry wanted to escalate inflation or make a "basis of fact". The real point is that the Bush/Cheney 2004 campaign is fear, fear, fear. The question is how do we get past this?

[ConcernedCanuk]

30. I'm surprised noone checked

.
.
.

From Kerry's site:


BUSH FICTION: George Bush and Dick Cheney will stand up to their big contributors in the oil industry.

FACT: John Kerry will provide real solutions to lower gas prices and fuel the American economy.



More at http://blog.johnkerry.com/dbunker/


OH

another thing pissed me off at GeeDubya's "calculator"

The oldest vehicle you can check up on is 1990

- that assumes that most people in America don't have older cars, no?

well, mine happens to be 1979, and not about to "upgrade" either - -

[tjwash]

33. In the meantime...

...five soldiers in Iraq got killed in a 48 hour period.

Fuck the GOP and their midirection tactics.

[Triple H]

35. Another one of Bush's lies...

add that to the list. Now the total number of lies is up around 9,234,576,456.

[Wapsie B]

37. Just like Gore

was going to do away with the internal combustion engine. Don't you remember that Al was even going to ban charcoal grills? Total crap but people like my parents were parroting it like it was gospel truth. Sounds like the mighty wurlitzer is warming up.

[cheezus]

40. We need a similiar calculator that uses our own flawed math

what's the difference between the lowest gas point durring clinton and current highs. Claim that Bush made gas prices higher so his oil buddies can make more money.

[ConcernedCanuk]

41. Hmm - should check out Bush's Blog

.
.
.

From the Bush/Cheney site:

Official Blog

March 30, 2004

How Much Would John Kerry's Vacation Cost? Use the Kerry Gas Tax Calculator!

Some people just have wacky ideas that don't make any sense -- like John Kerry, who supported raising gas taxes 50 cents a gallon. What would Kerry's idea mean to the rest of us? With the new Kerry Gas Tax Calculator, you can see just how much more Kerry would cost you at the pump. Plug in the make and model of your car, how many miles you drive in a week, and see how much more Kerry would cost you every week, every month, and year-round. Taking a vacation or just driving across town? See how much more your trip would cost under Kerry -- complete with map and driving directions!

Even John Kerry is likely to feel the bite of this disastrous tax increase. Suppose John Kerry were to take a cross-country trip for his next vacation -- starting out at his mansion in Boston's exclusive Louisburg Square and winding his way to his private ski chalet in Ketchum, Idaho. Kerry's vacation would cost him $174.36 more at the pump, driving a 2004 Cadillac Escalade EXT (for all that extra ski and snowboard equipment) at an average gas price of $1.75. Here are the details:

/snip/



An extra $174 may not be much for John Kerry, but Kerry's 50-cent gas tax increase would leave most American families running on empty.

Watch the new ad on Kerry's gas tax increase and try the calculator.

Posted by GeorgeWBush.com at 10:29 AM http://www.georgewbush.com/blog/
_____________________________________________________________________

Feckadee, this looks like children quibbling !

and the image is even labeled "kerrytrip"

this is psychological shit, sorta like subliminal messages in movies ?

remember the ads around the Iraq war, talking of 9/11 with pictures of Saddam floating in the back ground, or talking of Saddam with the Twin Towers floating in the background

The BFEE is WAY up there with this Propaganda Warfare -

The Old "Commies" would be proud of Georgie-Boy!!

[jackstraw45]

43. Do you have a link from KERRY to back up your misleading title?

Not everyone at DU or visiting DU reads the context.

You might want to attribute your title to the BUSH campaign.

[jobycom]

49. Hey, if people don't bother reading, that's their problem

Sorry if I can't fit a five paragraph legal disclaimer explaining all the nuances of the post in the subject line. I can't type that small.

[jackstraw45]

51. You could attribute the Claim to the BUSH admin

as in BUSH claims: Kerry to raise taxes

A casual swing voter could read your title and, sadly, say "Enough with Kerry" and move on.

EVERY VOTE COUNTS.

But I guess you must just be too busy to add a word to your title.

:eyes:

[jobycom]

54. I'm not too busy, I just don't agree with you

On the other hand, someone from Freeperville may be browsing through, may say Hey, a Democrat who finally gets it, and may click on my thread to read some love-- only to see some actual truth. Might change their whole outlook on life.

It's just as likely as some idiot visiting a Democratic web page and assuming they are reading anti-Kerry propoganda.

What next, do you go through and edit all of the posts that speculate on the benefits of a gas tax increase? Do we have someone coordinate every thought expressed on DU so as to increase votes for Kerry rather than to discuss democratic/libral ideas/ideals/policy?

Sorry, I love Kerry, but until he pays me, I think for myself. I doubt he'd ask me to do otherwise, which is why I love him. If the price of beating Bush is that we turn into the Republican Mind Control Machine, then there is no point in beating him.

But even leaving aside the ad absurdum argument and the mind-control cliche, I still don't agree with you. Sorry if that disappoints you.

[jobycom]

44. My weekly bill would increase $3.11

I LOVE my Prius!

[jobycom]

46. HEY WAIT! That's not right!!! (Ah-- amended)

I get an average of 55 MPG, according to Bush's page. Gas will go up fifty cents a gallon. I figured in 80 miles per week. That's less than a dollar. I don't even spend $3.11 on gas a week total.

BULLSHIT! They not only lie, but their calculator lies!!

On edit: On closer inspection, only the first line says "increase," the others say "total cost." My bad.

[JM]

45. Thinking about this for a minute...

...brings me to this possibility. A 50 cent increase in gasoline tax could do several things.

First, it could send car new buyers scrambling to buy whatever hybrids they can find. Since auto manufacturers have been following the trend to the SUVs for the past several years, there would be a likelihood that the hybrid designs they have been sitting on would suddenly be sent into production to offset losses in that market to the Japanese competition, which is already strapped with capacity issues. Better late than never.

Second, the possibility exists that there is technology that has been held back becuase it is just not marketable in small scale with gas prices in $1.50 - $2.00 per gallon range. If gas hit $2.25 a gallon, then that other technology becomes less expensive, companies launch it, and begin larger scale production, bringing the prices down.

I am just thinking out loud here. There are always technologies sitting on the sidelines because they are too expesive at the moment but when the environment change...

Later,
JM

[keithyboy]

60. You are right on all counts.

Those ideas are what John Anderson had in mind when he proposed the idea back in the 1980 campaign. But of course, Ronnie Reagan made fun of that proposal as he did Carter's suggestions on conservation, saying that Americans should not have to sacrifice anything...you know, we are white, right, and privileged.

[ulTRAX]

50. What is this cost compared to Bush's OIL WAR?

Not that I necessarily support Kerry's proposed tax.... but it's a bogus question. Bush is playing the tax card because he hopes no one looks at deficits caused by his irresponsible tax cuts... or the costs of NOT having a sane energy policy.

The US spends about 40 BILLION a year PEACE TIME on maintaining a presence in the mid-east. That amounts to about $1.00 a gallon subsidy for oil and gas. Add to that the occasional "oil war". Just who is paying these costs? Perhaps if the US had a sane energy policy, there would no "need" to AGAIN go to war.

[BiggJawn]

53. And HOW much has it gone UP under Bush?

More that 50 cents a gallon, I'll tell you that right now.

"Borrow and Spend ReTHUGlicans", people...They cut taxes for their rich friends, run up debts like a soon-to-be ex-wife using Hubby's AMEX, and when we finally get wise to them and throw the louts out on their asses, and the Democratic replacements gotta shovel out the empty bottles and piles of puke and straighten things out, its all "Tax and Spend DemocRATS!" all the time.

Can't the ReTHUGlicans campaign on what they've done that's GOOD in their administration? Oh, yeah, easier to spread lies and 1/4-truths about the other guy.

But the Moranic Murkan Sheeple will eat this shit up, just like Goering said, ("Repeat The Lie until it becomes Truth") Because that purdy girl on their Tee-Vee set said it was so.

[KharmaTrain]

56. Reality Check...Bunnypants Has Raised Our Gas Taxes Over .75 This Year

As others are calculating...try it this way (and one I'd love to use on a GOOP...but they're too scared to go economics with me)...Figure out how much you paid for gas in April, 2001...and the average price you paid that year...compared to what you are paying now and what you've paid in the last year. Anyone who says we're paying less is immediately ejected into Dittoland.

It's easy to concede that we're paying an average of 40 cents more a gallon now...and that's a conservative number, since Bunnypants stole the White House. Then add that to additional costs in food and other goods that rely heavily on transportation to get to market. Figure one's weekly food bill has increased 5 to 10 percent a year just on added fuel costs alone...for most families that's $10-20 a week...or even $5 per single...that's still $20 a month, $240 a year...extra purely based on the oil gouging (can anyone prove it isn't???).

Do the math and RoveCo. has raised your gas prices (and we're not even going into natural gas or heating oil) far more than Kerry.

Then you might want to point out the "mathmatics" this regime did on medicare and stand back...especially if it's someone over 65.

[denverbill]

59. What a bunch of fucking liars.

They say my 98 Ford Contour gets 23 mpg! It gets 33 easily. That puts their estimate 50% off already.

[bonemachine]

65. It's not true

The gax tax proposition was from years ago.
Currently he is now proposing that we actually eliminate, rather than increase, gas taxes.

[cprise]

69. Good. Now we know Kerry answers to the SUV crowd.

And thank you for making that clear.

[bonemachine]

72. No Problem

Here's more:

Bush’s campaign argues that if Kerry had his way, gasoline prices would be even higher. Vice President Cheney said in a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in Washington on Monday that Kerry once supported a 50-cent-per-gallon increase in gasoline taxes. Kerry mentioned such an increase in a newspaper interview but has never offered legislation for such a tax. He has since rejected the idea.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4630191/






If the only thing that Congress and President Bush wanted to do was reduce the cost of gasoline, they could take steps such as drawing oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, as President Bill Clinton did in October of 2000 and as Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle proposed Tuesday should be done again.

Congress could even cut the 18.4 cents-per-gallon federal excise tax on gasoline, a step Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole proposed in 1996.

Playing the Dole role this year, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry, through his campaign press releases, has berated Bush for not moving to cut the gasoline tax.

The professed goal of both Kerry and President Bush is a lower price at the pump.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4632875/


================================

SSDD...

[jeanmarc]

66. GOD DAMN IT! I am so sick.... (never a time reference)

of the reporting lacking a freaking sense of TIME!

"I have no doubt that Saddam did have WMDs" OF COURSE HE DID, DIMSON! WE GAVE THEM TO HIM!!!!

"His regime was the most serious threat to world stability, he had the nth largest standing army in the world" - YES, YES, YES! Until we reduced that threat throught the action at Kuwait. An action that I no longer think was failed diplomacy, but an act of baiting and then thwarting.

In each case, the statement is true. These stupid 'journalists' do not get the understanding of time. What a bunch of morons!!!!

[Disturbed]

73. Please change the freakin Misleading Title

Why keep the misperception going?

I made up my mind last night that I will
not discuss politics with any Right Winger from now
on, off line or on. The make me too angry. I am beginning
to dislike them intensly!!!

[bonemachine]

74. I dunno, I thought the title was appropriate

But then again, I'd approve of that tax too...