Question: Which of our candidates projects "Invincible Optimism?

[KoKo]

I'm taking out a couple of sentences from an article by Marc Shields, for discussion purposes. I'm linking the article just for reference but the article and who it's about isn't my point.

My Question is: Which candidate seems closer in "Optimism" to Reagan and Clinton. Both came in when there were bad feelings and opposing groups who were angry with the direction America was going. This time seems to be more serious because of Bush and the BFEE/PNAC.......so maybe seriousness is even more important. But Shields has a good point.......so which candidate right now might fit that "Invincible Optimism" projection?

ON EDIT: I looking for honest discussion not arguing with each other over candidates qualities. Or candidate bashing. Just why one thinks their particular favorite may or may not have those qualities. Shields point is a good one.....not the only one, but one to think about.

Here's the quote:

It is worth remembering that in the last half century
only two American politicians have served two terms in the White House.

Both were invincible optimists -- Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/28/column.shields.opinion.dean/

[On the Road]

1. Kucinich Projects Optimism but Not Invincibility

Dean projects invincibility but so far, he's not known for optimism. He can change that during his campaign, and I think has started to do so.

I don't think this depends on the candidate's words so much as nonverbal means of communication. Like coming across as a winner. Or as sincere. A lot of the candidates say the right things, but I think Dean radiates invincibility. That's the difference.

[CWebster]

2. "..not known for optimism..."

That's why his meetups are getting so crowded?

The invincible optimism is his strongest feature and it leaves all the others in the dust. The down side is others are bound to resent it.

[KoKo]

8. CWebster.....I wasn't looking for arguments on this thread...Your passion

is honest......but I was really just looking for what candidate you felt best represented those qualities. I guess arguing is discussing.....but I was trying to be more positive in this post rather than arguing with other posters.

Whatever.......I'm just explaining what I was hoping for...:shrug:

[CWebster]

11. Who was arguing?

lol

[On the Road]

13. CWebster, I'm Not Really Doubting Dean's Optimism

What I think the thread was asking had to do with image and a general sense of how a candidate comes across.

I am a Dean supporter and think he has run a brilliant campaign. His image right now, however, is of an angry person. Now that he's in the top tier of candidates, he needs to temper that with a larger dose of optimism.

I think he will reinvent himself successfully. As you point out, the Dean meetups are a good indication -- excitement is generated by optimism, not negativity. I fully expect him to make the necessary adjustment and win the election.

[loyalsister]

6. Reactionaries aren't optimists

The invincible optimist has a pragmatic plan to actually make things happen. The angry reactionary is a voice that better serves us by staying in the background talking about where the current plans are taking us. It give the person who has a realistic plan an opportunity to offer optimism in their plans, as well as for where they may take us in the future. We can't go anywhere unless the stuff we do now is actually feasible. I think Dean's optimism will start to shine through as we begin to see just how feasible his plans are. The ultimate form of optimism to me is to be practical enough to find a way to do something that will work.

[chimpymustgo]

7. I Dean planning a makeover from the in your face, yelling guy?

A kinder, gentler Dean? His campaign is so negative. It's not going to have wholesale appeal, IMO.

[KoKo]

10. Chimpy who is your candidate? Trashing someone else's isn't what the post

is about. Which one fits "Invincible Optimism" or may come close enough for you.

[CWebster]

12. So Koko

is it a one-sided criticism?

Here is the resent.


Ooops, there you are. Scratch that. As I was saying, of course it is Dean . People just don't send moola to an outsider without it.

;-)

[quinnox]

3. I'd have to go with Edwards

and Gephardt to a lesser degree. They seem to be putting out the most optimistic messages so far.

[KoKo]

4. Sharpton has humor and optimism.....but not the elected experience........

But, I do see that in him.......

On Edit: I'll add Mosley-Braun who has a wonderful way about her, a positive attitude and a great smile...

[chimpymustgo]

5. Edwards exudes optimism. It's what will take him the distance.

His life story reflects it, and his plans for America do too. His optimistic style is what will bring him votes.

Imagine the contrast against the smirking scowling one.

[TahitiNut]

9. In the primaries or the general elections?

I doubt many would make such an observation regarding either Reagan or Clinton in their primary run-ups. CNN (like many 'news' organizations), and even Mark Shields, engages in 'convenient' historical revisionism when seeking to make some point. When one looks at our national condition (economic and foreign) in 1979/80 and 1991/92 I doubt we'll recall much other than the "it can't get much worse" kind of 'optimism'. Little did most of us know how virulent an infection protofascism is in our body politic.

[mandyky]

14. Dean the pragmatic optimist

He tells people THEY have the power, that politicians always promise things they can't keep - like Kucinich saying he'd revoke NAFTA (I assume since Congress passed NAFTA, no president has the power to undo it unilaterally).

Dean is a populist and in that way spreads hope and trust to his supporters.

[KoKo]

15. FDR, had "Invincible Optimism" now that I think about it.....I wasn't

around then but have seen many clips of his speeches. So, there's some truth to what Shields says.

And, I agree with a couple of posters here, that maybe our candidates need to grow a little more before we see what their "image" will truly be......in the minds of the average American.

It may be to early for us to know.........but maybe we can see some hints of it in each candidate.

[tjdee]

16. Edwards' PAC was called New American Optimists, for pete's sake.

Edwards is clearly, IMO, the most optimistic of the field.

The others seem more concerned about fixing what's wrong, and bringing ourselves up to snuff, back on the road we were traveling before the Bush. I don't want to get into a thing about other candidates, but the first thing that pops into my mind is "Restoration". That's a good place to start, but what about after you restore it? IMO, Edwards gets beyond that (to ME, in MY HEAD).

Edwards on the other hand says things like this:

"Finally, we need an economic policy based on creating opportunity for all Americans, and giving everyone who works for it the chance to share in a strong economy's rewards. I've had some success in my life, and I'm proud of that. But success and security should not be the province of a fortunate few; we have to start growing together again."

"That's the basic promise of what we call the American Dream - if you work hard and play by the rules, America will give you the opportunity to reach higher, to build a better future. Americans dream that their children's lives will be better than their own. Americans dream that hard work deserves a real return. Americans dream that their future can be greater than their present."

"In the end, this debate is about much more than what kind of economic policy we’ll have. It’s about what kind of values we want to pass along to our children, and what kind of country we want to be."

"We have a responsibility to lift up all people who still, today, live in the shadow of the American dream."

[KoKo]

17. Edwards has a bit of optimism........and a very nice persona.

But, does he appear to have "invincible optimism." I think he is pleasing in his appearance....and appealed to me when I voted for him in NC as a New Democrat.........

He has maybe some more work to do.......as do they all.......and they will.

[tjdee]

18. Well, how would you define "invincible optimism"?

According to Mark Shields, Reagan and Clinton had it, but what is "it"?

I mean, Clinton was up against Poppy's record, but how did he exude "invincible optimism" in the face of it? It'd difficult to have "invincible" optimism when you're up against the Dubya years. I think we're lucky that the candidates can muster any optimism at all!

Thank you for being kind, LOL, I know how you feel about Johnny Reid!

on edit:
I think that the DNC winter speeches are a good place to compare what each candidate's 'optimism' quotient is. I've just looked over them again, and I think the differences are pretty striking.

[KoKo]

20. tj.......I think that it's an ability to be postive and cheerful about any

subject and to explain the most depressing news in a positive sincere upbeat way. And to convey a sincere belief that the American people are good and want to be seen as doing good for the world in a way that rallies us....unlike Bush's reidiculous view that he is Good and the rest of us need to see how good he is and follow him no matter what he's up to.


Now that's simplifying it. But the "Invincible" part would be as when Reagan was in his "Evil Empire...Mr. Gorbachov Tear Down that Wall..mode" said cheefully.......and Clinton who was always cheerful to the point that it annoyed the Repugs so they didn't think he was "serious enough" but who always managed to convey a belief that he was doing what was correct for America because he believed America was filled with good people who wanted to always do the right thing.

I forgot Jack Kennedy (Shields didn't mention him) but his "Ask Not what America can do for you, But what You can do for America.....and FDR........who could convey a sense that America was a wonderful country filled with people who would help democracy survive and his spirit got folks through Pearl Harbor and a war and give them hope after the Great Depression. He believed in the Good of the American People.


Which of our candiates truly believes and manages to convey it in his/her speeches and body language that they believe Americans are Good and will not put up with the view the Bushies have that we are "spineless, weak and need a STRONG LEADER to tell us what to do .......and if we don't OBEY or see it their way......then we must be ORDERED TO DO IT.

That's the difference in my very simplistic view of what Shields was getting at. He should have mentioned Kennedy (who was killed before his second term) and FDR who served longer. But, that's what I think it is.....others may differ.

[tjdee]

21. Have you read Edwards' DNC winter meeting speech?

Again, I know you are not keen on him, and from experience as a constituent feel his ability to follow through on his rhetoric is not there.

But he's talking about the Good of the American People. Honestly. Read this:

"Across America, every day, most people go to work believing that hard work will earn them a chance to get ahead. Every day, they try to do the right thing for their families and on the job, because they believe that's more important than making a quick buck. And every day, this President finds another way to let them down."
<snip>

"I want to be a champion for the regular people that make this country great. People like my father - they aren't insiders, they don't have lobbyists. Their only hope is that their President goes to work every day thinking about how to make their lives better, and has the backbone and courage to stand up against anything that stands in their way."
<snip>

"The people I grew up with in Robbins, North Carolina, my own father, people all across the real America, they don't ask much from government, but what they ask for matters. They want their leaders to honor their values, have the courage of their convictions, keep their country safe and strong, and give them a chance to make the most of their lives."

http://www.johnedwards.com/page.asp?id=52

He's talking the talk at least. He says that Americans are hardworking, good people who deserve a leader blah blah blah. I don't see anything similar coming from the other candidates and to tell you the truth, that's what won me over in spite of my misgivings about him.

Invincible? I don't think he's as invincible as Clinton. And as you said, maybe its early yet. Also, I've not spent as much time reading Kerry or DK. Again, I know you have an inside knowledge of Edwards I don't, but on this particular issue I think he's the guy.

[loyalsister]

22. Maybe it depends on subject

When Edwards does his populist thing he can get into it. Dean reaches it on health care. He says the south is winnable because blacks and whites both need what Democrats can give them. So, lets forget about the decal on the truck and court the racist voters based on the fact that their kids are uninsured, TOO. It's an optimism based on bringing people together based on what they need, because that's just what the public servants do.

[lkinsale]

19. Bob Graham

It's my belief he's a healer. In spite of the dismissive attitude the media and even some at DU take toward him, he's simply running his campaign to win. Nothing fazes him. He wants to become president, not out of personal aggrandizement, but because he wants to us to leave a better country for our children and our grandchildren.

All of his platform, from his positions on national security and terrorism to his economic plan to restore tax fairness, create jobs and invest in our infrastructure, are geared toward a better future for all us, not toward pandering to interest groups.

I heard the greatest quote from his son-in-law, "Bob has always noted that campaigns should be fun and are, in themselves, an act of celebrating our great Republic."

When you see Graham speak in his sane, hopeful voice, about what we can do to get back on track, you see a guy who can heal this country again.

So I'm working for him as hard as my little heart can work.

*******

Blog Graham! Join the "Original Blogger" at his new weblog

Contribute to Graham For President (Enter "Laura Kinsale" as your BobCat if you want to give me credit toward my pledge to raise 1k for Bob.)

[chimpymustgo]

23. Edwards is our optimist.

Our populist, our uniter.