We must not lose sight of TWO INDISPUTABLE TRUTHS:

[Brotherjohn]

1) The Bush administration initiated a war of choice based on a reason that has proved to be false. They felt that Iraq had WMDs which posed an untenable threat to the United States, requiring immediate action. We now know this to be untrue.

2) We were not “all wrong”. The Bush administration was wrong. They were wrong in the face of publicly aired dissenting opinions on nearly every point of evidence they presented, coming from (among others) the CIA, the State Department, foreign intelligence agencies, the I.A.E.A. and U.N. inspectors on the ground in Iraq.

Of course, the issue of whether the Bush administration intentionally misled or lied about the reasons for war casts a much more sinister light on their actions. But the mere fact that they took us into a war of choice based on what they should have known was (at best) flawed information, should be cause enough to convince anyone but the most die-hard supporters to vote this administration out.

[mhr]

1. True, But It Matters Not In The Court Of Public Opinion

200 Million Buys A Lot Of Propaganda.

Now, if the democrats and party started hammering these points daily it might make a difference.

We all know that won't happen since past experience is a guide to future performance.

[Brotherjohn]

3. That's my point. We NEED to "hammer these points daily".

Whether or not they lied or misled (of course they did) is a point which is difficult to prove. And most will simply not want to believe this, or at least will want to take an "ends justify the means" approach.

But it is FACT that we went into a war by choice, and the main reason our government gave for choosing this war has been proven to be false. I believe that alone will give most reasonable people pause (if it is reinforced enough).

Then, as that fact becomes more and more accepted as conventional wisdom (and it is becoming so every day), it must be made clear that we were NOT "all wrong" about this. The Bush administration were almost alone in beleiving and promoting much evidence that was widely contested before the war began.

That should give reasonable people more than just "pause". It should make them conclude that we are being led by incompetents, at the very least, and that we cannot afford to keep them in power for another four years.

The inevitable conclusion, and our main argument for Bush's defeat, is that another four years will likely result in more wars with questionable justifications. Very few Americans can accept that.

[aquart]

2. They knew.

Now tell me who ordered our jets to stand down on 9/11? Clarke was in the situation room. Does he say in his book? Does he cover it at all?
Is there any possibility it was him? (In which case Bush has a get out of jail free card so I can't imagine they wouldn't have used it already.)

[Brotherjohn]

5. I can't imagine a scenario where Clarke would have done that.

For starters, I don't know if he even would have been in the situation room yet. But if he was, I think he above anyone else would have been thinking: "It's Al Qaeda! It's Bin Laden! This is what I've been talking about! Shoot them down!"

Based on his previous statements, anyway. He has been described as in a near panic that we would be attacked by Al Qaeda soon (Tenet, too).

I do remember hearing someone mention that the scenarios in the situation room is mentioned in his book, and perhaps as it dealt with the order to shoot the jet(s) down. Anyone else?

[underpants]

4. Former Sec. White"..war of choice" Marine Gen."Saddam...paper tiger"

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