Fascist America, and riding thru the storm

[Mari333]

at this point I believe sincerely that we are experiencing 1933 Germany, the dollar will die, the bubble will burst , and Bush might very well steal the election again. So we all need to ready ourselves to either stay here and ride out the storm or move out of the country.
We might lose the Internet, the last place for free speech, and we need to think about what other arenas we can use for pockets of free speech to thrive in a fascist society if Bush steals this one.
remember, FRance and Germany went thru fascism and they came out of it but only after they learned the hard lessons of what happens when Fascism is in charge of the country.
Thats why they see Bush for what he is and the Bush admin as fascists.
Thats why we need to start thinking hard now as to how we survive in many arenas.
I am hunkering down, my husband is too ill to move and I have a kid in Iraq. I would rather leave the country. My sons have an escape plan tho when the draft comes.
In the meantime, just tell me what and how you intend to survive living in a fascist society. Lets help each other now while we still have a free press on the Internet.

[outinforce]

1. I Think There Are Some

I think there are some anti-government, survivalist groups in Idaho or Montana that enable people who are interested in surviving the impending crisis in govenment to survive. I'm also told that some of them are quite looney.

[Mari333]

2. If Bush steals this election

we will lose what little civil liberties we have left. Protests wont be allowed, and the 4th amendment will be nullified ( a Louisiana case just set that precedent). Already first amendment zones have been created that are destroying our 1st amendment rights, this will get worse. Imagine what the military is doing in Iraq now, knocking down peoples doors in the middle of the night and taking them away with no charges.
That CAN happen here and it can happen to each one of us.
and forget the internet..that will be gone, forget the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, your guns will be taken your free speech taken, and theres plenty of people the corporate whores in the Bush admin will fund to play SS cops to come after people.
It CAN happen here. People are playing right into the propoganda.
It CAN happen here because Americans have never lived under a totally Fascist regime and they are clueless. They are allowing it to happen.

[outinforce]

3. Have You Been Reading

Have you been reading the writings of David Koresh?

I believe he said many of the same things -- about a previous administration.

[Mari333]

6. I have read Mein Kampf and I dont live in denial

I also know I have a kid in a fraudulent war standing in Baghdad right now.
They got him, and if they can get him they can get all of your children.
Anyone who thinks Bush cant steal this election and think we wont live in a Fascist state is in denial.

[IrateCitizen]

15. Nah, I much prefer Chalmers Johnson

I would suggest The Sorrows of Empire. You might find yourself enlightened and depressed at the same time upon reading it.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. I'm reading that book right now

It's excellent. Did you read "Blowback"?

[IrateCitizen]

21. Just finished them both in sequence.

I found Blowback to be an excellent book, but not in the sense that everyone makes it out to be. I found Johnson's analysis of the military protectorate in exchange for open markets relationship between the US and Japan to be quite fascinating. I also think that much of the "blowback" that he was really addressing WRT East Asia is still on the horizon, and the economic fallout will make the current misadventures in the ME seem like a tea party by comparison.

Sorrows of Empire seemed to be written with a much more specific purpose in mind. I especially appreciated Johnson's comments regarding his notes in the "Acknowledgements":
This book was not easy to write. I do not like what it has to say about my country. But I am convinced by the course of events leading up to and the developments following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, that this analysis is fundamentally correct. It is because I do not like stating that the United States is probably lost to militarism that this book is so heavily documented. I want to ensure that readers know how I claim to know something....

So, Blowback was written more or less as a prognostication of an uncertain future. Johnson seems to have narrowed things down a bit in The Sorrows of Empire because of the acceleration toward the dissolve of the last vestiges of the Republic since 9/11.

In any event, the picture is certainly not a rosy one. :scared:

[rinsd]

4. I know it's been rough

But there is no need to go Cassandra...

"we will lose what little civil liberties we have left. Protests wont be allowed, and the 4th amendment will be nullified ( a Louisiana case just set that precedent). Already first amendment zones have been created that are destroying our 1st amendment rights, this will get worse. Imagine what the military is doing in Iraq now, knocking down peoples doors in the middle of the night and taking them away with no charges.
That CAN happen here and it can happen to each one of us.
and forget the internet..that will be gone, forget the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, your guns will be taken your free speech taken, and theres plenty of people the corporate whores in the Bush admin will fund to play SS cops to come after people.
It CAN happen here. People are playing right into the propoganda.
It CAN happen here because Americans have never lived under a totally Fascist regime and they are clueless. They are allowing it to happen."

Replace Bush and Fascist with Clinton and Communist and I bet I can find this same tome on FreeRepublic.

Take heart, the union has survived MANY crisises before. And as long as there are people who love this country as you do, it will weather this one as well.

[IrateCitizen]

16. Maybe that's an indication of an ongoing trend...

Replace Bush and Fascist with Clinton and Communist and I bet I can find this same tome on FreeRepublic.

Do you remember the 1996 Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, which was passed in response to the Murrah Federal Building bombing by Timothy McVeigh?

I do. Clinton was a huge booster of it. And it probably contained just as many infringements on civil liberties and went as far to eliminate the Right to Privacy as the USA PATRIOT Act did.

Of course, WE don't like to acknowledge such things because to admit them would be to admit that OUR party has been complicit in the slow slide to fascism as well.

All 9/11 did was accelerate the process to the point that the slow slide became more perceptible to more people. But it's been going on for quite some time as the Pentagon and National Security Apparatus have become increasingly entrenched within virtually every aspect of our society -- which in turn has only led to them becoming more secretive about their actions.

[rinsd]

20. I would tend to agree here...

Though I still think the nation will weather the storm.

[IrateCitizen]

22. Not unless the citizenry changes course and rises up

And in the current climate, I don't see that happening. In fact, if there were another major terrorist attack or economic collapse, I would be willing to bet that the majority of Americans would actually WELCOME totalitarian rule.

We have become so content with just being fat and happy, we have lost all sight of the primary value of true democratic process. Our founding fathers, for all their faults, were light-years ahead of us in this respect.

The American Republic of old is little but a shell of its former self. The innards of democracy have been hollowed out and replaced with the cancer of militarism and secrecy. There is no "weathering the storm" in this instance, because the storm is WITHIN, not OUTSIDE.

I'd suggest you read The Sorrows of Empire by Chalmers Johnson for an excellent summation of what truly lies ahead of us. It's not too warm and fuzzy. :scared:

[Nadienne]

9. I think you are right.

Scary.

But what do we do? Adopt secret hand-signals? Code-words? To recognize those who need help and those who can give it? It's a good idea to get something going now... just in case...

[seemslikeadream]

10. My family has talked

and have some tentative plans. Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Mari333 I don't know if you were here in Aug of last year but this was a great thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853

just in case anyone thinks it can't happen here

[Mari333]

12. Thanks I agree hope for the best and expect the worst

HUnkering down.

[pacifictiger]

27. Mari

plan for the worst, but don't expect the worst. Truth WILL overcome, and the mission we have in the journey of life is to stay loving and joyful no matter what the circumstance. That is what will dispell the darkness. Blessings and light to you.

[davsand]

8. I USED to say militia types were wingnuts...

I saw them as a bunch of paranoid wack-jobs playing soldier on the weekends. I'm not so sure I was right about it based on the stuff I see happening now here in the US of A.

I'll grant you that there are some real crazies out there spouting some racist homophobic bullshit, but the guys that worried about the Government run amok just don't sound nearly so crazy to me after seeing this bunch wipe their feet on the Constitution over and over again.

I've made plans to get my kid out of this country if it starts to get ugly--and if I didn't have that ability--I'd be re-examining my opinions of the militia guys. Not to sound like a paranoid here, but THEY may be the only ones left to stand between you and the ones coming to arrest you for political dissent.


Laura

[madrchsod]

17. i go over to "stormfront" every few days

there are people over there that believe that bush is evil and the federal government is taking away our consitution. of course they blame bush`s "jewish friends" and yet how far off the mark are they? it`s really bad when these guys agree on some things with the democratic left....

[davsand]

23. I said that same thing!

I never expected to see the day when the militia types were in agreement with the left on anything--let alone ths issue of civil rights.

Maybe shrub really HAS been a uniter...

Laura

[WitchWay]

5. The storm is coming from both directions...

Oh, and you forgot the fascist tendencies that have shown themselves to be inherent in the democratic party as well...

Unity Pledges and Oaths, ABBism, coronations, veritable endorsements of candidates before needed votes, Fear mongering to get the rank and file in line, "war is peace" thinking, imperialistic policy papers, irrationality...

Fascist America needs to be fought on all fronts, and the dem party is no exception.

[Mari333]

7. agreed. The Dems are right there doing the same thing

. Thats why Im preparing to ride the storm thru the process. Never thought Id live to see the day I even had to think about it tho.

[sadiesworld]

13. Your comparison of the erosion of civil liberties under Bushco to

the attempts at unity (in order to defeat Buchco)here at DU is, well...odd.

[WitchWay]

24. I think that the Unity can be used to erode Representation

I call it Unity without Representation.

Also, remember that Kerry also voted for the patriot act (not to mention IWR and FastTrack) -- so he's also culpable in the erosion you discuss.

I don't hate Kerry, but I don't like the way the party is going...and I don't like the way in which the Unity is being used as a means to sneak by a platform that leaves much to be desired.

I think there is a window of opportunity in which the party can decide whether it really wants to stand for things and offer something for the people, or if it merely wants to gain votes from scaring people unto submission.

[worldgonekrazy]

11. We live in interesting times

And honestly, what more could a person ask for out of life?

(That is my answer...rationalization)

[Mari333]

14. maybe people will wake up when the draft comes back

Until then, I guess not.
www.bushdraft.com

[Mari333]

28. ya its a real interesting time when your kid could die in a war

sorry, I dont do "oh I think Ill be a buddhist now " thru this time.

[BiggJawn]

18. I'm with you, Mari.

I'm staying. Not sure what will happen, but I'm staying...

[yellowdawgdem]

25. fascism

I agree on the content of your post, but think the implementation will be more subtle. For instance, the internet is needed for corporations, business interests, etc. So I don't think they will completely do away with it. They might shut down leftist sites like this one, and start going after people who criticize them online. But I doubt they would completely shut down the internet. Although, you never know what can happen. It is good to be thinking about how to cope with such a situation, should it become necessary. I feel that it has been in the back of my mind for a long time. I will be glad when people start waking up a bit more, and figuring out what to do.

[lectrobyte]

26. shut it down? why? they love the internet...

the computer makes it easier to see what web sites you are visiting, what e-mails you are reading and writing, without a lot of messy man power. Total Information Awareness. Carnivore. Not that I wear a lot of tinfoil, but the capabilities of the technologies are there today.

[yellowdawgdem]

29. Yeah for sure

They probably get more information on us from the internet than anywhere else. What worries me is that even if Kerry wins the election, I see so much damage already done. If the repubs were smart they would just let go of the presidency for 1 term, because then they could do even more damage behind the scenes. If they win another term, I think people will be fighting them real hard. I do think we'll eventually lick this fascism thing, it's just to unnatural to stick. But, and the person who said it's partly because we've never had a Stalin or a Hitler before. I think that's probably true- we're all just expecting the situation to right itself. We're not used to stuff like this, and that makes us vulnerable. I find it difficult to fathom that this aministration can speak articulately on the one hand, and they all have families as well. Yet on the other hand, hurt so many people without seeming the slightest bit sorry about it. Also how can decent republicans swallow this kind of cruelty, I'll tell ya, the whole thing is beyond my comprehension.