What's all this "Dr." Rice hoo-hah?

[Obamarama]

It was all "Dr. Rice" on the evening news. It's sort of nauseating that the media is buying into the attempt to portray the national security advisor as being more "intelligent" by referring to her has "Dr." How lame.

[arewethereyet]

1. she does hold a PhD

she's entitled.

[Obamarama]

2. That's a load of bullshit....

Never heard of her referred to as Dr. Rice in the last 3.5 years except for right now. She just decides to start using it NOW? Gimme a break.

[Dookus]

3. odd...

I've heard her referred to as Dr. Rice for many many years, long before she joined this administration. It's her title. Calling her Ms. Rice would be wrong.

[ProfessorGAC]

85. No It Wouldn't

Ph.D's who flounce around using the Doctor title are just revealing pomposity beyond their merit.

Trust me, i know bunches of them.
The Professor

[Robin Hood]

4. Laura Schlesinger is a Doctor.

Doctor of Physical education. Qualified to be a Physical Ed high school teacher. yet everyone assumes that she has something valuable to say because she is called Dr. Laura.

[Dookus]

11. Not Phys. Ed.

Schlessinger's degree is in physiology. Her problem is she presents herself as having a degree in psychology.

[DarkPhenyx]

14. My boss is a Doctor.

She has two PhD's. An individual with less common sense and honest insite I have rarely met.

[okieinpain]

94. uh!! do I know you

[leyton]

23. Her degree is not physical education.

Character and allegiance aside, I'll bet that Dr. Rice is highly qualified for the position of national security advisor. Her degree is in international affairs.

[mrdmk]

39. Nope, Political Science thesis on the Soviet Union n/t

edit: fixed subject.

[JVS]

68. Sovietology I thought

Which I've heard called grad-school for cold-warriors. But she does have a PhD and if she goes by Dr. that is fine with me.

[leyton]

76. Is that not a form of international studies?

My point is that her doctorate is not in engineering or English or anything.

[Occulus]

80. her doctorate has been basically irrelevant

for over ten years. My opinion of MS. Rice? She's a shill.

[Occulus]

79. That's SOVIET affairs

she's completely unqualified to be National Security Advisor. And, just because someone has a Dr. in front of their name, it does not follow that they deserve to hear it used.

[tishaLA]

7. Even when she was a dean at Stanford

she was Dr. Rice. YOu may not like her, but she has earned a doctorate and she is entitled to be called Dr. if she prefers that.

[mike1963]

30. I've always heard she was a "provost", not a Dean...maybe I've been

misinformated...

[tishaLA]

35. Maybe I've made an error

I know she was administrative.

[mrdmk]

40. For your reading pleasure

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html

When Dr. Rice was at Stanford she was very much not liked (an inside from academia).

[tishaLA]

50. Yes, I understand she was despised

and that her work was thought derivative. I understand that she had an amazing ability to say whatever was most ingratiating to those around her.

Nonetheless, if she wants to be called Dr. Rice by those with whom she interacts in the administration, so what? I don't do it and nobody else is forced to do it. If the media does it, it constitutes proof positive that they are shills.

[DoNotRefill]

63. I've got a J.D.

does this mean I'm Dr. DoNotRefill?

My wife has a Master's. Does this mean she's Master DoNotRefill? OK, I'll admit, that title fits her..... ;)

[JVS]

69. I thought that it would make you DoNotRefill esquire

[DoNotRefill]

73. Esquire my ass...

I serve NO KING, only Master DoNotRefill, my wife. ;)

[outinforce]

16. Is It Because

She is a woman?

Or because she is African American?

That you find it difficult to allow her to be called "Dr." -- an honor she earned.

[Obamarama]

22. Give me a break.....

Nothing of the sort. And to hades with you for assuming I'm either a mysoginist or a bigot. Hardly. See me post #20 below before you start throwing baseless, assumptive accusations around.

[outinforce]

78. ((BREAK))

There.

I just gave you a break.

Now, will you please give me one.

You will note that I asked a question in post #16 to this thread.

You then said "See me post #20 below before you start throwing baseless, assumptive accusations around."

Even if I were to say that my post (#16) contained "baseless or assumptive accusations, it would have been (I think) rather difficult for me to read poast #20 before it had even been posted.

[Occulus]

82. Oh, she may have earned it, all right

but that doesn't at all mean anything. She's entitled to call herself "dr." but nobody else has to allow her to hear it.

Personally, no, I don't think she deserves the honorofic. Not now, not ever again.

Titles are supposed to mean nothing in the US.

[outinforce]

87. I Don't Understand

When you say that "titles are supposed to mean nothing in the US".

Do you suggest that i stpo calling my physicians "Dr." so and so?

Do you suggest that after next January 20, we simply refer to Mr. Kerry and not President Kerry?

Do you suggest that we simply refer to Mr. Kerry now, and not Senator Kerry?

Do you suggest that we simply refer to Mr. Clinton, and not former President Clinton?

Or are you suggesting that there is something about Ms. Rice (like her color or her gender) which should prevent us from referring to her as Dr. Rice?

[tom_paine]

41. I dunno. Seems ok to me.

And I have heard her called Dr. Rice in numerous places before, not just Bushevik Sub-Media.

I think this one is much ado about nothing.

And she is entitled by virtue of her Ph.D. Not everyone who has one insists on being called Dr., but everyone who has one is entitled if they so wish.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

6. I guess she's entitled, but it is still lame

If any of my friends with a PhD called themselves "Doctor", I would have to beat their ass.

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. i'd like to congratulate you on your choice of nic..very apropos

[DoNotRefill]

64. Be careful.....

Some people with doctorates will beat your ass back.

As long as all parties are over 18 and it's consensual, have at it! :)

[sweetheart]

10. funny that title suggests one is able to discriminate knoweldge

A doctor of philosophy knows what knowledge is, and what truth is. She is no doctor. Shes a weak ignorant idiot who repeats the bible so she won't get in trouble from the chief idiot election thief.

She is no doctor.. She's dog crap on my shoe... i wipe you off condolezza, you smelly mess of shit.

[polazarus]

88. So I submit

If you are Black woman from a modest home from Birmingham Alabama, and you graduated college at the age of 19 and against all odds carved out a respectable path, no matter what, she will still be a black piece of S**t. Should we also assume that all black success stories that come out of Alabama are in that same stereotypical box.

Rosa Parks
Nat King Cole
The Commodores
Martin Luther King Jr. (Prior to Ebenezer Calling)
Ruben Stoddard
George Washington Carver
Booker T. Washington
5 Blind Boys from Alabama (Gospel Group)

She may not be on this side of the Political Ideology but she is a prominent intelligent Black Southern Woman who should be at the very least given some respect. We can disagree with her politics but she deserves respect for what she has accomplished at such a young age.

Tomb stone me if you want but at least I am standing up for what I believe is right.

[demigoddess]

54. rush limbaugh would say that

a liberal with those credentials did not have to have real logic but only scholarship. Maybe that is her problem she knew enough to pass the tests but not enough to really understand the problems she deals with.

[eissa]

5. Oh, big no-no

I work with professors, and just try NOT referring to some of them as Dr. so-and-so; some of those prima donnas will bite your head off and spit it out. Most of them are repukes as well, so I suspect Condisleeza is in the same boat as these guys.

[outinforce]

21. I Do Volunteer Work

at a hospital, and just try NOT referring to a physician as "Dr" so-and-so. They can be SUCH prima donnas! They will bite your head off and let you know that they think that they are little gods. Most of them are repukes as well.

Does that sound a bit silly and bitter?

[Sparky McGruff]

51. That's in the humanities...

In biology, anyone who insists on being called "doctor" gets slapped silly.

I have a PhD in biology. It entitles me to many rights and privileges-- it says so right on the degree. For example, when I go to Wendys, I tell them "I have a Ph.D, and I'd like the LARGE fries and LARGE coke with that meal". And, because I have a PhD, they give it to me for only 35 cents!

[Karenina]

8. Using her title (which she DID earn)

helps Dr. Condiliarsleeza's "gravitas." ;-)

[The Night Owl]

9. Well, after all...

Condi does doctor the truth a lot.

[Obamarama]

12. How true....

I like that. I refer to her as the "Girl From The Fiction Department," ala 1984.

I have several friends who possess Ph.D. degrees and I am all about respecting the title, IF they choose to use it. I still can't recall hearing her referred to as "Dr." in media reports until just recently. I say it still sounds like spin.

[Dookus]

I think you just weren't paying attention...

I lived right near Stanford University when she worked there, and she was known as Dr. Rice. Just like Henry Kissinger is called Dr. Kissinger....

It may be self-puffery, but they're entitled to use the term. And Rice has been using it for many, many years.

[Obamarama]

20. RE: Paying attention

Methinks it is you who is not paying attention. Dr. Rice may have been using her hard-earned title for years. My point is that I have not heard the media extensively refer to her as Dr. Rice until just recently.

I direct you, therefore, back to my original post. I suspect there is a concerted effort by the "administration" to emphasise her title in the media in an effort to make her seem more credible.

I am mildly annoyed that the media is playing the game.

Do you get it now?

[RapidCreek]

67. Indeed

We went from Condi to Condaleezza to Dr. Rice. Interesting isn't it. Our name changes with the perception we seek to create.

We've gone from our elbow rubbing buddy, the fun loving Condi to the grave intellectual. Quite a transformation.

From now on I want everyone here who believes it respectful to refer to someone by their degree to call me. E.T. A.A. B.S. B.A. A.S.E. certified Creek.

RC

[JVS]

70. I always thought the whole condi thing was a bit shameful

People within the top levels of government shouldn't be refered to with nicknames by the media or by their superiors in public statements.

[RapidCreek]

74. It was done for a reason....

it wasn't an oversight or a slight.

RC

[DoNotRefill]

65. And here I thought Kissenger's claim to fame was...

that he's "got nicer legs than Hitler, and bigger tits than Cher!"


Sorry, Monty Python moment... ;)

[w4rma]

13. What angers me is the DISrespect big media shows Dems. (nt)

[oneighty]

15. Yes but?

Is she the kind of Doctor that can do somebody some good?

My boss the MD was known for that comment.

180

[tishaLA]

18. Madeline Albright is Dr. Albright, too

did she do anybody any good?

Let your boss the MD know that this PhD candidate does lots of good by teaching undergrads and dealing with concepts. In fact, you might tell the MD that I have lots more respect for M.D., Ph.D.s who do research and expand the boundaries of the possible. I hate when people try to denigrate another profession.

[drkedjr]

17. Doctoral Philosophy

Since she is not a doctor of medicine, one can also assume, that she cannot "heal" herself .....

[Kelvin Mace]

24. The use of the title "Dr"

is considered pretensious when used by people who are not physicians. The only people I have ever met who were PhD's and demanded to be called "Doctor" were assholes of the first order.

I just did a search on Google news for "Condoleezza Rice" and came back with 10,000+ hits. A search for "Dr. Condoleezza Rice" returned 269 hits. "Dr. Rice" "Condoleezza" came back with 847 hits. On the web in general, the totals were 165,000+/6,510 for "Condoleezza Rice" and "Dr. Rice" "Condoleezza" respectively.

I treat her the same way as I do Laura S. "Frau Doktor" or (Fake) Dr. Rice.

A PhD doesn't impress me. Precious Leader has an MBA and I'm sure could have bought a PhD. Anyone can buy a PhD, even from a big name universities. An MD can't be bought. Hell, neither can a DVM. You MUST pass med/vet school (yeah some people can slip by, but I am talking as a rule) to be called "Doctor".

And no, I'm not a doctor. <g>

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
Distrusting the Government Since 1984

[Obamarama]

25. Thank you for the info Plan9....

Exactly my point... This "Dr. Rice" bullshit is a recent phenomenon.

[tishaLA]

28. I have no love whatsoever for Condescending Rice

not do I care that a Ph.D. fails to impress you, but to suggest that people "buy" Ph.D.s "even from a big name university" is just untrue.

Additionally, you may think it is pretentious for those with Ph.Ds to call themselves "doctor"--when we have university positions, I confess, "professor" is preferred--it is still appropriate. In fact, during the hearings last week Dr. Albright was called "doctor" by more than a few of her interlocutors. She was never called that as Sec. of State because she was called "Madame Secretary."

[mike1963]

33. According to the whitehouse bio, her Ph.D. is from Univ of Denver which

I never heard of before.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html

[tishaLA]

34. It's where Dr. Albright's father

directed her dissertation, IIRC. I'm not sure why not hearing about a university has anything to do with this. She has a Ph.D., right? And she was a hotshot at Stanford, a university I assume most people know.

[Kelvin Mace]

37. People buy degrees all the time

Daddy donates a wing to the Alma Mater, endows a chair, Junior gets a pass on his work. Money greases the wheels. Most people do work for their degree, but money can and does make things happen.

Compare this to a medical degree. You can't buy your way through med school.

There is also a difference between people calling you "Doctor" out of respect (their choice) and people demanding they be called Doctor. If a student calls you "Dr. X", that is a sign of respect. Calling yourself "Doctor" and/or insisting other people do, is conceit.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org

[rinsd]

95. Huh?

"Compare this to a medical degree. You can't buy your way through med school"

Sure you can. It's passing the licensing that may be difficult.

"There is also a difference between people calling you "Doctor" out of respect (their choice) and people demanding they be called Doctor. If a student calls you "Dr. X", that is a sign of respect. Calling yourself "Doctor" and/or insisting other people do, is conceit."

Which is a non-sequitar since the charge is why they were calling her Dr. Rice not that she insisted upon it.

[AngryAmish]

45. MDs can be bought

[joeprogressive]

57. I must disagree

My wife has both MD an PhD and she said the PhD was much harder. MD's always finish med school in 4 years (unless they fail a year) and can be called Dr. after that (even before residency) Most PhD's take at least 4 years with many going 5+. My wife took the same classes as the MDs while doing her PhD and had to make B's or better while med students only had to make C's or better. She was also putting in 50+ hours a week in the lab. Really no comparison. As far as contributing to society, PhD's do more globally as far as discovering most of the cures MD's utilize. MD's do more on an individual basis. Overall, both deserve to be called Dr. if they wish. My wife only goes by her first name.

[joeprogressive]

58. also, MD's bought every day

It predominantly happens in India where if you don't qualify for medical school you can pay higher tuition to attend. Many Americans buy there way into foreign med schools. While medical school selection might be tougher in U.S., there are studies to suggest higher intellect among PhD's.

[eridani]

59. Particularly true for PhDs in hard sciences

You are regarded as probably doing trivial work if you advertise yourself as Dr. in public. If you have an academic or other research-related position, the assumption is that of course you have a doctorate, or you have equivalent or better real world accomplishments that justify your position.

For some social sciences it seems to be the opposite. Though there is justification IMO for people who are counselors of some sort in private practice. You have to credential yourself to get people to come into your office the first time.

[RapidCreek]

71. Heres one to add

let's not forget our fun loving girl next door "Condi" at 863,000 hits.

[SmokeyBlues]

26. I'm with you KzooDem!

I even mentioned the "Dr. Rice" stuff to a friend just the other day. True, she earned the title and I've heard it used in the past, but up until the shit hit that old fan, most people simply called her Condi in what seems to be a different kind of spin to endear her to the American people, almost a playing down of her intellect (the anti-Gore) to present her as just another girl next door named Condi.

One thing is certain, she'll never be mistaken for Dr. Feelgood!

[VOX]

27. How many times has the media referred to "Dr." Martin Luther King?

You do hear the title "Reverend" now and again in connection with his name, but whenever I hear "Dr. King," it usually is spoken by an African American.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. Again,

if people addressed him as "Doctor", that's cool. If he signed his name "Dr. King" that is conceit, even for MLK.

[JVS]

72. I usually hear Reverend Dr. MLK or Dr. Reverend MLK, sometimes with Jr.

[dfong63]

29. condi brings shame to whatever title she bears

[VolcanoJen]

31. In my former career, I worked with several Ph.D's.

They would always laugh, in my early-employment suck-up-and-be-proper days, when I called them "Doctor."

;-)

[Paradise]

32. Doctor, heal thyself. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. I AM a Ph. D., and I do not like to be called "Dr." except as a joke

In the Ivy League (where I did my grad work), it is considered very bad form to insist on being called "Dr." I found that the less prestigious the college, the more likely the professors were to insist on being called "Dr."

(Note: My mother addresses letters to me with "Dr. (Lydia Leftcoast's real name)," but she's over eighty, and you try talking an eighty-year-old out of something.)

[tom_paine]

42. To each their own. I hate to defend Sleezy but

she has the right to ask it. We can say she's a jerk for doing so, but she's not outta line.

And many non-medical Ph.D.s want to be called Doctor. Hell, I had a couple of teachers in HIGH SCHOOL, for Pete's sake, who called themselves Doctor. As was the principal a Dr. and it appeared that way in the yearbook.

This is no jerkwater high school but routinely listed among the Top 15 High Schools in the USA academically.

[Lisa]

46. Your mom too, eh?

Mine keep addressing letters to me that way. I've shut up about it, because after all they did help put me through my first degree -- and if they are showing off to their friends, that's their business.

[kodi]

56. no dear, you have a ph.d.

just as i do.

you are not the thing.

a ph.d. is a piece of paper.

[jpak]

93. Where I work - they only call you "Dr." if you fuck up

So "Dr." Rice is quite appropriate from my perspective...

:)

[Ouabache]

43. One of my PhD friends used to say something like

all it means is the holder is educated, rather than trained.

[Lisa]

44. People have told me I should insist on the "Dr."

They claim that it would help me with my career advancement. I used to reply, "If the only reason someone offered me a job was because of the Ph.D., I wouldn't take it ... if only to avoid being fired when they found out I didn't want to play along!"

But now, I can just say: "No, I'm Lisa, not Condoleezza." Much shorter! (One would think that Condie already HAS a career and wouldn't need to advance it much further.)

p.s. there are actually a number of public figures out there who have Ph.D.'s but don't advertise them. Here in Canada, Jack Layton and Ed Broadbent -- and even ex-Speaker Newt, in the US.

[AngryAmish]

47. Conversation I heard in a bar once

Friend #1 - "When I graduate I want you all to call me Dr."

Friend #2 (soon to be MBA) - "I will call you doctor if when I graduate you call me master."

[Sparky McGruff]

53. Heard in another conversation in a bar near a university...

"Hey-- that's DOCTOR asshole, to you, buddy!"

[frankly_fedup2]

48. What I would like to know that I have not seen anyone

address is WHY Resident Bush and Cheney are testifying at the same time?? Hmmmm, are they afraid of what might come out of dumya's mouth? Worried about his little tantrums?

This is more important then the CR story (in my opinion)

[opihimoimoi]

49. All the title means is she passed those necessary exams in academia

Nothing about HANDS ON EXPERIENCE AND THE ABILITY TO REASON.

She fails in both.

[wickerwoman]

52. Honestly, it annoys me a lot more when they call her Condi.

Do we call Ashcroft "Johnnie" or Rumsfeld "Donnie"?

We can hate her politics without stooping to disrespect for her person. That just makes us look childish.

[DoNotRefill]

66. Ummm....Some of us call Clinton "Big Dog"....

It's meant as a term of endearment, and I just can't see calling him "Bubba".

[wickerwoman]

75. Different issue.

I'm perfectly happy to tease my friends and call them nicknames. Like you say, it's a term of endearment.

But I don't feel any endearment towards Rice or any of the Bush crew. I just think contemptuous nicknames diminish us, not them, and calling women we dislike by their first names and men we dislike by their last is symptomatic of widspread contempt for women in our society. I'm not making any specific accusations on this board- just my 2 cents.

[kodi]

55. the "dr" schtick was elevated to idolatry under "dr." kissinger

.

[Michael Harrington]

60. So basically...

She and Ayman al Zawahiri are colleagues.

[Parrcrow]

61. The media is trying to enhance her stature

Whether or not she has the credentials is irrelevent (she does). Its a spin point and the media (80% of which is right wing and most of the rest is merely corrupt) is using the title because Karl Rove told them to.

[daleo]

62. I thought Poppy didn't like intellectuals

They make him cry.

[Lizz612]

77. I think its the media just going for brevity.

Before she was "National Security Adviser Condoliza Rice" or "Condoliza Rice." "Dr. Rice" is shorter, therefore it takes up less air time and less air time spent talking is more air time sold to the advertisers. It didn't matter before because they only said her name a few times, but now she is the story.

[spanone]

81. They like to "up" her image in troubled times.

[Bridget Burke]

83. Outside the academic setting,

"Doctor" is used for M.D.'s.

"Reverend Doctor" is for Ministers with advanced degrees.

Anything else is pompous.

[progressiverealist]

84. I have a Ph.D. and I HATE being called Dr. those who insist on this

are usually arrogant jerks.

[ProfessorGAC]

86. See My Earlier Reply

You and i are of like mind. Not only are they arrogant jerks, but they are usually those that know the least.
The Professor

[progressiverealist]

92. yes, they are.

You and I both know that there are PLENTY of morons who hold the Ph.D.

[jackstraw45]

89. Sorry to disagree...

But even though she's a liar, she DOES have a doctorate and should be called Dr.

Doesn't mean she's not advocating evil policies and lying about them.

[Kholst]

90. Give me a break

Calling her Doctor is nothing new.

Calling Ph.D.'s doctor is nothing new... The word actually comes from the middle english word for teacher (which in turn comes from blah blah blah until you get to the Latin word for teacher).

Introducing herself at a bar as Dr. Rice would be pretentious, just as it would be for an M.D.

Others referring to her as Dr. Rice in a professional context is not.




Aren't there much better things to chastise Rice for than this?

[outinforce]

91. "Aren't there much better things to chastise Rice for than this?"

Oh, there certainly are!

But doing this is SO much easier!

And so much more FUN, too!