DUers: How would you respond if it were a Democrat in the WH

[CatWoman]

doing all the sleazy stuff that Bush is doing?

Would you don the freeper persona, and stand by your man?

Or would you denounce him?

[kalian]

1. We'll see what happens when Kerry gets in there....

from what he has stated...things pretty much will remain on course.
No major changes. Troops will continue in Iraq. "Freedom" will
continue to be imparted on unfortunate countries. 40,000 "new" troops
will be added (how remains to be seen...).

Guess folks here will support Kerry.

[Cleita]

Well, what do you want?

Four more years of Bush? Maybe, at least, Kerry won't do stupid things.

[kalian]

13. And if he does.....? Answer Catwoman's question....

[onehandle]

7. That has nothing to do with CatWoman's post.

We're going to be in Iraq for a Loooong time no matter who comes into office in November.

[kalian]

12. Of course it does....

Kerry will be "inheriting" this mess.
As for Iraq...Kerry should pull out, after approaching the UN
and stating that the shrub administration LIED. The US should pay
reparations to the Iraqi people and then pull out. End of story.

Unfortunately, this won't happen.
Nothing much will change.

[onehandle]

18. She can correct me if I'm wrong...

But I believe she's talking about Bush's general political sleaze.

She didn't mention Kerry. That was your idea.

[kalian]

21. Yes, Kerry was my idea....

and I'm projecting into the future to point out what "could be"
since nothing really will be altered. There's no denying it really.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. "There's no denying it" in your opinion, right? You certainly don't...

...speak for me, and I doubt if you speak for too many others.

[CatWoman]

24. thank you

I was just on the Yahoo boards, and the kool aid kids are out in force.

Then I listened to the Howard Stern MP3 -- the segment with Al Franken arguing with a freeper.

My thought is these people are crazy, sick or just plain stupid. They go out of their way to defend * -- the sleazier he gets the more hardened they become.

I was wondering if anyone on our side shared similar traits.

[RapidCreek]

46. Of course they do....

Our team sits in the Senate and House. They voted to give a known lier, coward, profiteer and cheat freedom to do an end run around the contitution and the UN in his very obvious zeal to wage a war on a defenseless nonthreatening nation.

I've seen pages and pages of defense for this self serving sleaze...right here on good ole DU. I still do....and I'd wager to bet I very shortly will...right here after my post.

RC

[Gore1FL]

53. No they didn't

They voted for the use of force if necessary. Bush either ignored, or half-assed his way through the requirments and ramrodded the country into war.

Now, I was opposed to the vote in october of 2002. I wish the dems had voted differently -- but to say "hey voted to give a known lier, coward, profiteer and cheat freedom to do an end run around the contitution and the UN in his very obvious zeal to wage a war on a defenseless nonthreatening nation" is to spin a valid point into inaccuracy.

[blm]

2. I'd be too ashamed and ignore as much news as possible.

And I'd be hoping he would have the decency to resign.

[Cleita]

3. Depends on what he's doing.

Is he running my country right? As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what he does otherwise. If he's sending the nation into Hell, no I don't stand by my man. Divorce, divorce. But then freepers, I think, are used to being abused.

[onehandle]

4. If you're gonna flip the Party of the "sleaze"...

...wouldn't you have to flip the purpose.

Playing dirty pool to push the "Liberal Agenda".

Tough call.

[bloom]

5. I would be supporting the Green Party

or something else.

[Dickie Flatt]

6. No

I hope I would not be so partisan as to turn a blind eye to his failings. What we're seeing in in the Bush administration is wrong, no matter who's doing it.

[brainoverload]

8. hypothetical nonsense

I can't imagine a democratic president being anywhere nearly as sleazy as Bush. Of course, before Bush I couldn't imagine any president being anywhere nearly as sleazy as Bush.

But, regardless of party, any president who lied us into war, lied us into national bankruptcy, lied us into a drug program that benefits no one but the drug companies and HMOs, lied us into environmental policies that do nothing but pillage the environment and whose only response to criticism is to smear the criticizer would earn every bit of vocal scorn that I have for the current occupier of the office.

[CatWoman]

25. hey you!!! don't call my post "nonsense"!!!!!

Kerry has already pissed me off on certain issues.

Power corrupts.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Oh yeah -- welcome to DU

[aquart]

9. Maybe you don't remember Lyndon Johnson.

But I do. He was a Democrat. We shortened his life.

[CatWoman]

27. No I don't

I was very young at that time.

I was too busy being young to care about politics.

That's why I love the young people here -- I'm jealous, really.

I wish I had paid attention then.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. Oh, I do. He was just another Texan that should have been...

...a rightwing Republican.

The man was evil to the core, and only pushed the Civil Rights program through because 1) he knew that minorities were being sent to Vietnam in disproportionate numbers, and 2) he knew he would need Black voters in 1968.

I also believe that he had some role in the killing of JFK.

[DerekG]

32. That's not correct, MLD...

Johnson presided over the genocidal war against the Vietnamese, and I could never forgive him for the devastation he wrought. The degree of evil is simply unfathomable.

However, Johnson's domestic record DESTROYS Kennedy's, and reveals that LBJ was surely our most progressive president. He genuinely wanted to dispel the demons of poverty and racism from this country. He gave Kennedy a lot of guff for coming in late to the Civil Rights movement (you'll recall that JFK didn't take a moral stance until the summer of '63). The passing of the Civil Rights Act of 64 and Voting Rights Act of '65 required superb prowess in the art of legislation (something Kennedy didn't possess) and enormous courage. His contributions to America (Medicare, HeadStart, FAFSA, environmental laws, etc..) are legion.

Domestically, LBJ remains one of the precious few presidents we had who was worth a damn.

But again, there's the rape of Southeast Asia...

[NightTrain]

10. I supported Clinton during all that Foster/Lewinsky/Whitewater bullshit...

...because it had "witch hunt" written all over it.

On the other hand, I vocally criticized Clinton over policy decisions of his with which I disagreed--and there were quite a few, alas. Examples are NAFTA, GATT, his firing of Dr. Elders, the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the 1998 bombing of what turned out to be an aspirin factory in the Sudan, and his 1999 war against Kosovo.

[kalian]

15. And the bombing of Iraq un Operation "desert fox".....

[TheFarseer]

11. I have no alligence to a party

If democrats were doing what Bush is doing I would be equally mad.

[DerekG]

14. Best. Question. Ever.

There would be a deep divide on the DU.

Many would scuttle in their attempt to blame the right-wing for every Democratic misdeed--a la Clinton. Don't believe me? Had Bush presided over the intervention in Yugoslavia, then many Democrats would have correctly decoded the true intentions of NATO. Replace Clark with someone like Franks, and he would be justifiably denounced as a war criminal. As it is, we still live under the delusion that the war was waged on humanitarian grounds.

Half of the community, however, would possess the intellectual and moral honesty to denounce any betrayal that a Democratic administration would send forth.

I want Bush out, but things are going to be rocky on the DU once Kerry is elected.

[kalian]

17. "going to be rocky".....is putting it mildly....

I've been severely flamed on these forums for questioning Kerry's
stance on many issues. I'm extremely skeptical of his candidacy
and of his intentions.

Oh well...it really won't matter.

[CatWoman]

29. thanks, Derek

*all giddy now*

:D

[bobbyboucher]

34. Dumbest. Question. Ever.

OK, now let's all play make-believe 9/11 would have happened under Gore's watch.

[CatWoman]

37. let me wipe that dribble off your chin

[bobbyboucher]

41. Brilliant!

Let's all play "I'll come up with some historically stupid hypothetical situation, then use my trusty ass-photo in retaiation to the perfectly resonable ridicule" game.

Oh what fun we will have.

[DerekG]

38. There's nothing "dumb" about it...

There will be an occasional thread that discusses Truman's authorization for two atomic bombs to be dropped on a country desperate to surrender. There are many posters who side with Truman, and overlook his administration's fatal decision to transform America into an empire and foment the ruinous Cold War.

I'm placing my bet: 40% of DUers fall into lockstep come January 20, 2005.

[bobbyboucher]

42. OK, now I get it.

NOT!

Keep pretending.

[proud patriot]

16. I would denounce the same as today .

Regardless It's the American people I love :loveya:

[stevedeshazer]

19. I would be just as pissed as I am now

And I would be working hard to get her/him out of office. Party doesn't matter if the leader is a scumbag.

[IronLionZion]

20. I'd denounce him in a heartbeat

and consider the Republican candidate. I'm a moderate/liberal Independent so its not that much of an issue.

[emulatorloo]

22. If this hypothetical Dem was guilty of the

same kind of abuses we are seeing from GWB, yes I would denounce him or her.

[Auntie Bush]

23. I'd become a Republican!

Then I'd go :puke:

[GOPisEvil]

28. The same thing I did when Bill Clinton was in the White House.

Demand his honesty. And if I didn't get it, I'd be pissed about it. There are still things I'm pissed off about with ol' Bill, even though I think he did a good job overall.

[CatWoman]

31. you know

I really, really don't look at a blowjob as having intercourse.

or maybe the Clenis hypnotized me, and I can't see otherwise.

[GOPisEvil]

56. I wasn't mad about that. I was mad that he wasn't just open from the start

It's always the cover-up that gets ya. I'd much prefer that he had come right out and said, "I did it, and I shouldn't have. I'm sorry."

But, I more pissed about actual policy decisions he made, not his sex life, which didn't matter to me.

[MrSlayer]

33. I call em the way I see em.

No one gets any mercy. I hammered Clinton plenty for NAFTA and a few other things while he was in there. I thought he did a really good job overall though and the sex thing meant zero in my opinion. I would call out any administration that acted like this regardless of party.

[bobbyboucher]

35. Ridiculous.

Nothing would be the same.

What if monkeys flew out of my butt?

[CatWoman]

36. maybe I can help you out

[bobbyboucher]

43. OOh, another one. Brilliant!

Now let's play "I make up a dumb hypothetical, then you crush me for my inane silliness, then I get to use my sophomoric ass-photo again, but I don't have to defend my ridiculousness". OK? OK? Can we play that game? Please, please, please, please.

Quit while you are behind.

(oh, the irony)

[bobbyboucher]

44. What, you aren't going to call me an ass again?

By the way, is that your ass? Or your significant others?

[CatWoman]

57. You have a serious attitude problem

I was just pointing out that everyone has both an ass and an opinion.

And everyone can be an ass about their opinions.

[Forkboy]

51. "What if monkeys flew out of my butt?"

You'd be a lot more entertaining?

[Kenneth ken]

39. I would denounce

I have impugned Clinton on these boards for the things he and his admin did that I was against, so why would I not do the same for any other Dem?

[peterh]

40. The party is secondary….nuf said

eom

[debsianben]

45. Let's Focus on the Real World...

...in which this is no hypothetical. We already know for a certainty that whether Kerry takes office in January or whether Bush succeeds in doctoring the results (Black Box Voting and all that...) to stay in office, the same shit we're going through under Bush will continue.

Kerry voted for every single one of Bush's most important policy initiatives: the grotesquely named "USA-PATRIOT" Act, the pointless and horrific bombing of Afghanistan, the all-out assault on public education in the name of standardized testing known as "No Child Left Behind," the union-busting, Orwellian "Homeland Security Bill"(creating the DHS) and the invasion of Iraq. These were the major policy initiatives of the Bush administration, the reasons why DUers hate Duhbya so much. At best, Kerry can claim on the campaign trail that Bush has done a bad job of administering them and that Kerry can do a better job of administering Bush's policies. Plus, keep in mind that Kerry, like Bush, is a lifelong proponent of "free trade" agreements.

I am NOT claiming that there are no significant differences between Bush and Kerry, that they are "just the same" or that there aren't "liberal" elements of Kerry's voting record over the decades, so please no one bring out that tired old straw man. I'm just pointing out what is uncontroversially true (that Kerry voted for all of the major policy initiatives of the Bush administration) and pointing out an uncomfortable (though, due to widespread wishful thinking in the Kerry camp, slightly more controversial) corrollary of this, that the broad outlines of America's downward spiral--empire-building abroad, the continued erosion of civil liberties at home, continued prioritizing of the "free market" over human needs and democratic rights everywhere. Possibly even more severe, since Kerry could probably more easily get away with restoring the draft, for instance, for the same reason that it took Bill Clinton to push through NAFTA and abolish the federal welfare system, or in an earlier generation it took LBJ (who was, as Hal Draper put it at the time, able to similtaneously "hypnotize liberals with Great Society rhetoric") to go even farther in terms of the devestation of Vietnam than Goldwater advocated.

So this raises a real problem. Will ABB DUers who see Bush as the root of all evil continue to speak out and resist under Kerry or will they rally behind him and soft-pedal criticism so as not to give aid and comfort to the Republican enemy by showing "divisions in the ranks"?

I sure as hell know what I'll do. How about every one else. As the old miners' song asks, "Which Side Are You On?"

[mouse7]

47. You support someone else in primaries

Kennedy almost bested Carter for the nomination. He might have won the nomination if Carter had released delegates from first vote committments.

Not saying I didn't like Carter. I did. Just reporting that incumbants can be beaten for the party nomination.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Consider your attitude to Tony Blair

and that would presumably be your attitude to someone doing the same thing in the White House.

Very few here support Blair these days.

[lojasmo]

49. I would probably vote for the Republican challenger in November

If the current Democratic administration had done what the Bush administration has done in this term.

I will vote for Kerry in November despite his dispicable and flawed votes on USAPATRIOT, the Iraq vote, and his miserable failure to oppose the Bush Tax cuts. I will vote for him because he's still considerably better than Bush, on the whole.

This thread is not rediculous. It is a hypothetical question about personal policy in the face of ambiguity. Yes, it is unlikely (though not impossible) that a Democratic administration would commit the same kind of fuckery that the * administration has, but it's an interesting hypothetical question.

[Forkboy]

50. What do you think?

:evilgrin:

[Junkdrawer]

52. "Hey, Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today,,"

does that answer your question?

[cmayer]

54. If it was a Democrat doing the same stuff...

he wouldn't be a Democrat.

[Paradise]

55. wow, great, probing question.

worth doing justice to. need time to think, discuss. :wow:
so far, my head is spinning with it.
you, catwoman, are really something (complimentary).

[CatWoman]

58. thanks for the compliment

unfortunately a small minority deems me an idiot for even dare mentioning this situation............