why iraq is in mess

[seabeyond]

they too feel bush in lie. they will not accept any good from u.s. cause that is not where bush is coming from. you cannot get good, when good isnt being offered, and people see and know

[bryant69]

1. Well it's a bit more than this

We don't have a good reputation in general in that part of the world. Even those who might want an Iraqi democracy are concerned that attention will waiver and that we'll pull out early, leaving them in a civil war, or that we will install a puppet dictator.

And those who want something else, a theocracy for example, or something like it, have no reason to want the United States involved at all.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[seabeyond]

2. this is the simplicity of it

thru out the history and u.s. participation we can clearly see our role and participation. the only time successful in that area, steps forward was clintons desire for peace with isreal and palestine. he wasnt successful, but cause that was his intent he did make progress and that thought was able to be there.

we have to give them their area and me just saying that is arrogant. it is theirs to do and figure out, we cannot do it. adn that brings us to having a decade project and becoming independent from opec. then we are in a plac to allow ourselves to be no more than arbritrators if someone wants to use us.

i also see this will be a new deal thing, and investment in u.s. and employment.......a good way of spending our money.

i am feeling this is the time.

and yes, it is even bigger than this.

[IrateCitizen]

3. And expanding on that theme a little further...

When we invaded Iraq and essentially overturned the entire state apparatus by use of brute force, we created a vacuum of massive proportions. We had spent the better part of 12 years completely decimating Iraqi infratructure. The previous regime under Saddam had been able to hold on through their own use of brute force.

Now, with Saddam deposed, there are numerous factions rushing in to fill this vacuum, as could have been predicted. Many of these factions do not particularly like one another -- you can't tell me that the people in the Sunni triangle are enthusiastic about the power being exercised by Shiite Ayatollah al-Sistani right now. This then results in the US forces there having to adopt varying degrees of brute force in order to keep these rivalries from spilling over.

Of course, through all of it, the infrastructure is SITLL decimated. The US can't commit serious assets toward a real rebuilding of the infrastructure so long as it is engaged in continuing low-intensity combat operations. This then leads to FURTHER frustration by the Iraqis, compounded by the extreme privatization of their economy carried out by the order of Paul "Pontius" Bremer.

And, of course, you're absolutely right that the Iraqis don't have much faith in Western intervention in their region, since it has invariably (this instance included) been primarily for the purpose of shoring up Western "interests" rather than actually improving life for the Iraqis.

Problem is, now that we're here, there's no easy way out of it. :shrug: